Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not 40K

[Mando Knight]

(Coincidentally, this is likely why it is possible to convince the Mojave Brotherhood to form a truce with the NCR but not with the Legion, despite the fact that the Brotherhood has fought the former a lot more than the latter: Because they have actual common ground. Though Caesar does mention that he's captured some Brotherhood Scribes "out east", which suggests that the Legion has fought the Fallout Tactics rendition of the Brotherhood before, so maybe he sort of has fought them a little.)

The Centurion armor also includes part of a T-45d, implying some interaction with either the Brotherhood or at least some Pre-War military base.

The Brotherhood isn't quite Pre-war like the Enclave was, since they grew out of an Army detachment that survived the war by holing up in Mariposa and only became the Brotherhood of Steel later, once it was clear that America was dead and they started to build an independent power base.

Yeah, the desertion that was the beginning of the Brotherhood is "Pre-War" in that it occurred 3 days before the Great War, and then the Brotherhood codified itself in the days following.

Also, wasn't there a bit-part Hockey Gang in Fallout 3 somewhere? I kinda remember that they had a quest, but I'm drawing a blank.

Sudden-Death Overtime. They're an optional part of the Nuka Cola quest.

[Ailurus]

As far as Europe goes, I remember one of the game designers of Fallout 3 mentioning that the owner of whatever the evil towers (Tenleytown? It has that goul quest to it) is British, and the reason for that is to make players think, "If a Briton wants to immigrate to the Capitol Wasteland, how bad must Europe be?" They never expanded too much on it though.

Tenpenny is British, yeah, and so is Desmond from Point Lookout (though I don't believe if its ever confirmed whether Desmond was in England or the US when he got Ghoulified).

The interesting thing about Europe, though, is that its quite possibly better than the US. Oh, I doubt its good - the Resource Wars, running out of most large-scale energy sources, and the global effects of the bombs undoubtedly took their toll. But, from all accounts of the Great War, the vast majority of the nukes were aimed at and launched by the US, China and Russia. Sure, a lot if not all of the European capitals probably got a few nukes chucked their way, and Eastern Europe probably picked up some more hits from missiles intended for Western Russia, but there's plenty of other parts of Europe that may have escaped direct fire. Whose going to classify areas like Scotland, Ireland, Iceland or the Nordic countries as high priority targets in a nuclear war? (And not to mention that Switzerland IRL is as close to nuke-proof as a country can get, including *actual* vaults) If that was the case in one or more of those regions, you could potentially have areas like Goodsprings or Jacobstown (or maybe even outer Vegas) where decent numbers of people could have survived. Heck, places like the Hub and New Reno were popping up in the middle of a desert - imagine what similar numbers of survivors could have done when they had access to more temperate climates and stronger geographical barriers to help keep you safe.

Of course, we'll probably never conclusively see post-Great War Europe, but if Sawyer is ever able to make his Resource Wars game, that would at least give us a better idea of where Europe was pre-nukes.

[QuintonBeck]

Oh boy, a FNV topic. I can talk about New Vegas for days. It's my absolute favorite game and Fallout is one of my favorite settings.

The Brotherhood topic has been pretty well covered I think so I won't comment there.

On the Legion though, I'll be the first to admit they were one of the more poorly done aspects of NV at least in regards to the moral grayness of the world. Their pragmatism came across as backwards and their brutality came across as unnecessary throughout the game which is unfortunate because as a concept they were great and Caesar really encapsulated their ideal very well in his monologues. Caesar's story and his vision for them really made them seem feasible but the lack of reflection in their reality (some of which was obviously intentional) and the absence of venturing into Legion territories really made them come across as complete bad guys which for a faction so unique to the Wasteland was a real waste.

That said, if one is allowed to read beyond the very surface and speculate a bit they're one of the better factions for the Wasteland, if not the Mojave which was already fairly civilized thanks to House and the NCR. Caesar said he wanted to conquer the NCR to evolve his warband of slaves and tribes into a nation and I think that was a legitimate concern and helping him may have allowed that to happen but putting the Legion in as the opposing force to the almost-pre-war NCR/pre-war House just made him look really stupid. I would have loved for a DLC (though I knew it was unlikely since the NCR/Legion conflict stayed in the main game more or less) where the player went to an edge of Legion territory that wasn't contested by the NCR and saw how the Legion operated when it was conquering tribes and running a nation rather than fighting a war.

Imagine a game on the Eastern front of Legion territory where everything outside their holdings is disorganized madness akin to the Wasteland of FO3 and the Legion territory, while brutal, was efficient and safe with Legionaries guarding caravans and gold coins being minted and officers and officials directing things smoothly. If we'd seen that part of the Legion, that's only vaguely alluded to, they might have seemed better or more interesting in comparison to NCR which itself a rather bloated and corrupt beast of freedom.

I go on so much about the Legion because I like to speculate that a European Fallout might have some more Legion-esque factions. As Calemyr said having the only standing bits being the ancient castles and forts would be interesting and make for an interesting setting as a sort of counter culture point to the 50s Americana of general Fallout. A lot of this desire comes from a biased view on Europe being the lands of Knights and Lords and Kings etc. but Fallout loves to play and twist on expectations and tropes so the ideal Fallout: Britain would for me have a Royalist type factions bestowing fiefdoms and knighthoods to go and quell "Barbarians" aka Raiders and being a somewhat less militarized nation and having expended much of the guns and ammo resources in the wars leading up to 2077 relying on older techniques IE swords and horses and such with the occasional gun about.

A post apocalyptic dark ages so to speak, perhaps with some British 60s/70s flair (since just because the US stuck in the 50s aesthetic doesn't mean other countries didn't get stuck somewhere else and 60s/70s European culture was relatively powerful and interesting) I agree it might seem less Fallout-esque but if I was going to get excited for a Fallout in Europe that's probably what I'd like to see.

Also, proud supporter of a House-run New Vegas.

[BladeofObliviom]

On the Legion though, I'll be the first to admit they were one of the more poorly done aspects of NV at least in regards to the moral grayness of the world. Their pragmatism came across as backwards and their brutality came across as unnecessary throughout the game which is unfortunate because as a concept they were great and Caesar really encapsulated their ideal very well in his monologues. Caesar's story and his vision for them really made them seem feasible but the lack of reflection in their reality (some of which was obviously intentional) and the absence of venturing into Legion territories really made them come across as complete bad guys which for a faction so unique to the Wasteland was a real waste.

That said, if one is allowed to read beyond the very surface and speculate a bit they're one of the better factions for the Wasteland, if not the Mojave which was already fairly civilized thanks to House and the NCR. Caesar said he wanted to conquer the NCR to evolve his warband of slaves and tribes into a nation and I think that was a legitimate concern and helping him may have allowed that to happen but putting the Legion in as the opposing force to the almost-pre-war NCR/pre-war House just made him look really stupid. I would have loved for a DLC (though I knew it was unlikely since the NCR/Legion conflict stayed in the main game more or less) where the player went to an edge of Legion territory that wasn't contested by the NCR and saw how the Legion operated when it was conquering tribes and running a nation rather than fighting a war.

Imagine a game on the Eastern front of Legion territory where everything outside their holdings is disorganized madness akin to the Wasteland of FO3 and the Legion territory, while brutal, was efficient and safe with Legionaries guarding caravans and gold coins being minted and officers and officials directing things smoothly. If we'd seen that part of the Legion, that's only vaguely alluded to, they might have seemed better or more interesting in comparison to NCR which itself a rather bloated and corrupt beast of freedom.

Oh, hey Quinton! Nice to see ya!

You're right that NV doesn't really give the Legion a fair shake. It makes sure to show you all of the slaves with injured legs carrying huge cartloads of stuff on their backs uphill all day, all the hypermilitarized dudes who refuse to give the time of day to a female PC even as they make rape-y comments behind her back, all the people dying in horrible pain lashed to a cross, all of the hypocrisy, all of the war crimes in Nipton and elsewhere, all of the human-wave tactics, and all of the usual Evil Empire-y-ness. Then, to balance all of this out, people tell you that their territory is really safe and even decent to live in so long as you follow the rules and don't piss them off.

Of course, telling isn't even close to the same as seeing, and the only bits of Legion territory you really get to see are their forward bases (Nelson and Cottonwood Cove) and the Fort. The Legion side might have been a bit more compelling if you could actually visit the East side of the Colorado river and see their strangely random-encounter-free territory. Maybe walk the roads a bit, always expecting to be jumped by a pack of raiders or cazadors or whathaveyou that never comes, replaced by guardless Caravans and the occasional Legion patrol that stops you to make sure you aren't carrying contraband and then moves on. Maybe even a few Legion-controlled towns where mostly normal people live, love, and work.

It might not make the Legion itself any less evil than it is, but at least it wouldn't be just the same "Horde of Violent Savages from the East who need to Die!" thing that we've seen a million times.

[QuintonBeck]

Oh, hey Quinton! Nice to see ya!

You're right that NV doesn't really give the Legion a fair shake. It makes sure to show you all of the slaves with injured legs carrying huge cartloads of stuff on their backs uphill all day, all the hypermilitarized dudes who refuse to give the time of day to a female PC even as they make rape-y comments behind her back, all the people dying in horrible pain lashed to a cross, all of the hypocrisy, all of the war crimes in Nipton and elsewhere, all of the human-wave tactics, and all of the usual Evil Empire-y-ness. Then, to balance all of this out, people tell you that their territory is really safe and even decent to live in so long as you follow the rules and don't piss them off.

Of course, telling isn't even close to the same as seeing, and the only bits of Legion territory you really get to see are their forward bases (Nelson and Cottonwood Cove) and the Fort. The Legion side might have been a bit more compelling if you could actually visit the East side of the Colorado river and see their strangely random-encounter-free territory. Maybe walk the roads a bit, always expecting to be jumped by a pack of raiders or cazadors or whathaveyou that never comes, replaced by guardless Caravans and the occasional Legion patrol that stops you to make sure you aren't carrying contraband and then moves on. Maybe even a few Legion-controlled towns where mostly normal people live, love, and work.

It might not make the Legion itself any less evil than it is, but at least it wouldn't be just the same "Horde of Violent Savages from the East who need to Die!" thing that we've seen a million times.

Howdy Blade!

Exactly. Showing is much stronger than telling and the best we get is Dale Barton saying Legion territory is a pretty solid trade area then a bunch of overly intense military outposts like you said. NCR on the other hand is seen protecting (albeit somewhat ineffectively) outer Vegas including the Sharecropper farms, Hoover Dam, Boulder City, etc. along with a bunch of NCR citizens in and around New Vegas who convey the normalcy and functionality of the NCR whereas Legion gets none of that. Admittedly it makes more sense, and in some way is an indicator of the Legion's smarter way of running things in that they don't send citizens out in front of/along with the army into the dangerous frontier but that takes a deeper reading of the situation than is readily apparent.

The Evil Eastern Empire bit is a pretty solid trope to play on sometimes though Still, a more nuanced Legion wouldn't have been amiss considering the many levels and layers piled onto the other factions. Caesar gives some great speeches about what the Legion coulda/shoulda/woulda been and if you go off of those the Legion seems maybe feasible but it's all words from him and a few others and the actual stuff we see just makes it all hypocrisy.

[Nilehus]

If they would've just dropped the whole "Raperaperaperaperaperaperape!" thing, or at least toned it down to "A few soldiers get carried away", it would've made it a lot more of a grey choice. As it is, it's pretty hard to side with the side that's institutionalized one of the most vile crimes a person can do. At least not without growing a mustache and twirling it while you laugh evilly.

It's a shame, really. I love the NCR, but they need a legitimate threat to get them off their butts. And not just militarily, ideologically. The Legion... Did not deliver on one of those counts. Between the child soldiers (Making it to 21 means you've put in a good decade of service) the institutionalized rape (Speaks for itself) and the complete hypocrisy they show (Lots of examples) they just fall flat as a legitimate way of life.

[GolemsVoice]

Speaking of Europe, whatever happened to Russia? While China seems to have replaced the Soviet Union as the communist enemy No.1 for America, it's strange that we don't hear about Russia at all. They also sit on immense amounts of ressources. Were they conquered by China?

[BladeofObliviom]

Speaking of Europe, whatever happened to Russia? While China seems to have replaced the Soviet Union as the communist enemy No.1 for America, it's strange that we don't hear about Russia at all. They also sit on immense amounts of ressources. Were they conquered by China?

One of the premade characters in the first game is apparently the Granddaughter of a Soviet Diplomat, which suggests that the Soviet Union never fell. There are also a few plaques in the Museum of Technology claiming that the Soviet Union and China both disputed the US' claim of putting the first Man on the Moon.


We don't really know more than that, IIRC.


EDIT: Oh, and they produced the AK-112 Assault Rifle, which was among the more common automatic weapons in the first two games. The number in use in the US suggests that they were widely available for sale or at least were present in significant numbers for some reason.

[NeoVid]

Is the Brotherhood of Steel's mission objective now outdated? Especially with the re-emergence of centralized governments like the NCR. Or does these emergence just make their mission all the more critical?

The BoS is currently self-defeating. In my first playthrough of New Vegas, the Gun Runners told me that they used to make energy weapons, but gave up on that because the Brotherhood of Steel kept sacking their shipments and stealing everything. So the Brotherhood is now preventing technological recovery. Note that they're also the only 'neutral' faction that absolutely refuses to ally with Mr House and his intention of reviving a pre-War era tech base.

[Gaelbert]

Does anyone know of any vaguely scholarly or academic articles about Fallout? There's a lot of content in the setting that deserves a more in depth analysis, but most of the articles I can find are summaries of the plot. Something like the Honest Hearts DLC has a lot going on behind the seams that I'd really love to learn more about. I did a couple playthroughs of the series, taking notes on water in preparation for writing something comparing water scarcity/conflict in Fallout to similar real life situations, but it ended up being too large of a scope for me to accomplish on my own for fun. Even something like the interviews with Sawyer or anything he's written can really add to the experience of New Vegas.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Regarding the Legion, I've sort of noticed a pattern with Chris Avellone that he has a habit of having really high-concept Ubermensch practical/amoral philosophies that sound really interesting in a monologue, but are represented by complete hypocritical douchebags in actual gameplay.

Of course, he also represents traditional progressive democracies with complete hypocritical douchebags in actual gameplay, but I'm starting to wonder if the way his ambigious villains turn out is due to conflicts with other writers, or just because he's better at telling than showing.

I'm starting to think it might actually be because every side in a Chris Avellone story is wrong, it's just some are more wrong than others from the perspective of us residents of modern progressive-ish societies.

[Nilehus]

Regarding the Legion, I've sort of noticed a pattern with Chris Avellone that he has a habit of having really high-concept Ubermensch practical/amoral philosophies that sound really interesting in a monologue, but are represented by complete hypocritical douchebags in actual gameplay.

Of course, he also represents traditional progressive democracies with complete hypocritical douchebags in actual gameplay, but I'm starting to wonder if the way his ambigious villains turn out is due to conflicts with other writers, or just because he's better at telling than showing.

I'm starting to think it might actually be because every side in a Chris Avellone story is wrong, it's just some are more wrong than others from the perspective of us residents of modern progressive-ish societies.

Considering he's outright said that he hates how powerful and 'civilized' the NCR/wastelands have gotten and wants to nuke them back to oblivion, I'd say that's a fair argument.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Considering he's outright said that he hates how powerful and 'civilized' the NCR/wastelands have gotten and wants to nuke them back to oblivion, I'd say that's a fair argument.

That may come down to wanting to write a different kind of story than what the setting's currently at, but it does explain a lot about Lonesome Road, if nothing else.

[Gracht Grabmaw]

I'm starting to think it might actually be because every side in a Chris Avellone story is wrong, it's just some are more wrong than others from the perspective of us residents of modern progressive-ish societies.

Yeah, it's almost as if New Vegas is set during a hellish war where even good people are sometimes driven to do horrible things and bad people are given an acceptable outlet for their acts.
The NCR are definately the more sympathethic side, but that doesn't automatically make them perfect and I don't think they ever were intended to be. They're only human, just like the legion.


It would have been interesting to see how a Free Vegas with Benny at the helm would have turned out. He may have been a bit reckless and shortsighted, but Benny was pretty damn resourceful, he'd probably find a way to make it work at least for a little while. And the inevitable failure would have been hilarious.

[Jayngfet]

The NCR has the benefit of looking familiar to us. Everyone else is pseudoromans and tech knights, then here comes these cool american army dudes trying to bring order and you kind of side with them instantly. OF COURSE they're the good guys! They look like us!

NCR make way too many boneheaded moves to really be trusted, and clearly have no handle on the reality of the situation in the mojave. They screw up way too often and regularly make promises they can't keep. House and Caesar may be amoral and soulless, but they at least get the job they set out for done.

Though something tells me that they'll learn nothing and try pushing up to washington and canada into rainforrests and get stuck in another mess no matter how it turns out.



As for new settings, I'll also vote for florida. Crazed animatronics and mutant gators all the way baby.

[Nilehus]

That may come down to wanting to write a different kind of story than what the setting's currently at, but it does explain a lot about Lonesome Road, if nothing else.

Pretty much. Ulysses is Chris' mouthpiece to explain how terrible the NCR is and why they deserve to be nuked. There's never even an option to make a valid point defending the NCR, the best you can do is "I agree, but I'm working to change it!" Which, considering how much Ulysses got built up over the three DLC's before it (One mediocre, one decent, one I enjoyed more than the main game) was extremely disappointing. I didn't like Kreia lecturing me about how wrong I was no matter what I did in KOTOR 2, I still don't like it a decade later.

Edit: I support Florida, just because I want to see a Radigator go against a Deathclaw. That sounds amazing.

[GolemsVoice]

Eh, the NCR isn't perfect, but their failings, like inefficiency, jingoism, political corruption and the general bartering that goes with having a somewhat democratical system are bad for a modern democracy. In the wasteland, these are almost neglegible.

Compare this to the Legion, who not only works by brutally subjugating anyone who resists, raping the women, enslaving the rest and then moving on, they're practically saints. Although I agree that they could have been handled with more finesse, so that it didn't just boil down to "good - democracy" vs "evil - tyranny".

[Tengu_temp]

NCR is not perfect. It's spread too thin and drowning in bureaucracy, and while as a government it's generally well-meaning, some of its members are jerks.

In other words, it's like every real life government.

As for Ceasar's Legion, I wanted to say that they remind me of Fist of the North Star villains, but that's probably because I decided to play NV as Kenshiro. I still remember when you meet them the first time and that one guy says "if you think what we did is so evil, feel free to try to kill us". So I did. With my fists. Good times.

[Jayngfet]

Pretty much. Ulysses is Chris' mouthpiece to explain how terrible the NCR is and why they deserve to be nuked. There's never even an option to make a valid point defending the NCR, the best you can do is "I agree, but I'm working to change it!" Which, considering how much Ulysses got built up over the three DLC's before it (One mediocre, one decent, one I enjoyed more than the main game) was extremely disappointing. I didn't like Kreia lecturing me about how wrong I was no matter what I did in KOTOR 2, I still don't like it a decade later.

Edit: I support Florida, just because I want to see a Radigator go against a Deathclaw. That sounds amazing.

Generally speaking, gamers hate being lectured at almost as much as being given non-choices. See also: Bioware in literally any criticism. Or anything Skyrim involving Riften. Or any of far cry 3's to non bosses.

But yeah, Florida is the obvious logical choice no matter how you slice it. Broke down theme parks, giant gators, possibly some tribals dressed up as cartoon characters.

It occours to me that I would easily day one buy anything involving a post apocalyptic disneyworld.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The other thing about the NCR in New Vegas is that it's represented at the top level by the worst possible people. Moore's a psychopath, Oliver's an arrogant REMF with delusions of grandeur, and Kimball is a caricature of every mediocre democratic head of state in the last hundred years. Even Hanlon, the voice of reason, deliberately betrays his own soldiers to make a political/strategic point.

Lower-level NCR folks (who aren't traitors) are usually much nicer people than your run-of-the-mill Legionaries, but given the choice between, say, Oliver and Lanius, I'll chuck both of 'em off the dam, regardless of political philosophies.

And long story short that's why I went Independent and sent the NCR several strong messages of "go back to California". When all of your options are bad, go with the devil you know - yourself.

[Terraoblivion]

Somewhere outside the US would be nice and Europe is probably the best bet for both getting that and avoiding horrible racism. I think that doing all of Europe would be a bit much, though. I can think of several places that would be really cool.

London is an obvious one and should absolutely be 60ies in style rather than 50ies like someone said. Imagine gangs loosely styling themselves after mods and rockers fighting for turfs and random bits of Beatlemania lying around, just as examples. As well as people in suits. It would also have the opportunity of exploring the vaults of the British Museum with all the remains of past empires, whether Assyrian or ancién regime France, and the creepy wasteland of Highgate Cemetery, the place used by hundreds of horror movies needing a creepy, overgrown cemetery, as well as the location of Karl Marx' grave. There would also be the obvious opportunity of somebody setting up shop in the ruins of Buckingham Palace and claiming to be royalty.

Perhaps something could be done with the British Library too.

Another good option would be Rome. Ancient palaces and overly decorated churches, insane, winding streets and Mussolini's grandiose plans for a completely modern city from the 1930s, people in even sillier old-fashioned clothes than the beefeaters and of course ancient Roman ruins. Rome just seems to offer a lot of neat locations to work with, even without going into more stereotypical stuff or addressing any of the religious issues of the place.

The final location that immediately springs to mind is Berlin. The cold war never ended in Fallout-verse, but there's no indication that West Berlin ever felt either, so most likely it would basically be two fortresses surrounding each other. The obvious theme of this choice would be cold war paranoia, but there's also the sheer militarization the place had during the cold war and would have gotten as things got worse and worse. As well as the remains of the previous destruction of the city.

I'm sure there are other places that could be interesting, like the area around Prague or Istanbul, but these three are the ones I have any real ideas for how would be interesting.

[Surrealistik]

The cold war never ended in Fallout-verse

I like the idea, but the Cold War did indeed end in the Fallout-verse unless there's some retcon I'm unaware of; tensions with the Russians diffused as they did in our meatspace (though of course the Soviet Union did not dissolve and the process took longer). Essentially, the Fallout verse largely follows the exact same timeline ours does with the Soviet Union's continuity being one major exception. Things got nuclear not with the Russians (their involvement in the war was largely undefined) but the Chinese (a rival superpower by the time the bombs were dropped) due to an unresolved peak oil energy crisis.

Basically, by the time of the Great War, Soviet and American/Western relations weren't really all that strained, but I suppose if the former retained control over East Germany something might evolve as you described; I would doubt it though in light of the improvement of those relations pre-war. Who knows though? Stranger things have resulted in the FO verse due to the compounded broken telephone effect of poor/inaccurate historical recall.


On the subject of the NCR, siding with them is pretty much the least bad of several undesirable/deeply flawed options. That said, Mr. House was a very close and tempting second and admittedly spoke to my inner technocrat.

[Nerd-o-rama]

House represented a more benevolent autocracy than Caesar did, but still an autocracy. Arguably a more permanent and efficient one, built around a neurotic immortal with a decided inability to let go of the pre-War past - even his grandiose space program plans were just a continuation of what the USA and Vault-Tec were working on prior to the bombs dropping. For all his talk of advancement and equality, I didn't trust the man as far as I could throw his isolation pod to do anything but meticulously cram his section of the Wasteland into a 204-year-old model of what he thought life ought to be like.

[Hexalan]

Spoiler: OP

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Been playing a lot of Fallout New Vegas recently, and I thought such a rich world yet mainly untapped might deserve a little bit of Fluff discussions...

The question I want to kickoff the thread with is something that has been puzzling me recently, and I just encountered the issue during Veronica's quest:

Is the Brotherhood of Steel's mission objective now outdated? Especially with the re-emergence of centralized governments like the NCR. Or does these emergence just make their mission all the more critical?

I mean.. the original Brotherhood of Steel, as encountered in the original Fallout, was an organization destined to preserve knowledge after the Apocalypse. One mean of achieving that end was to gather as much pre-war technology around as possible; make sure its manufacturing process was not lost. They never were do-gooder; in fact one of the potential ending had the Brotherhood wipe out Shandy Town just because they had becomed too successful a centre of civilization.

Now, with Fallout New Vegas (let's ignore Fallout 3 for a minute), their new mission objective seems to be keeping high tech out of the hands of the rest of the world. Why? I am not sure. Avoid repeating mistakes of the past? Avoid a repeat of the Apocalypse? How is keeping Power Armor, Robotics and Energy Weaponry out of the hand of the common people would prevent a repeat of the Nuclear Apocalypse?

In fact, with the emergence of new Energy Weapon manufactories (like the Van Graff family), wouldn't you think that the Brotherhood's mission of "preserving" technology is now secured? At least, when it comes to Energy Weapon? Wouldn't the Brotherhood endanger that human knowledge if it destroyed these alternate manufacturing centers?


Or maybe I see it wrongly? Is it possible the Brotherhood should remain as a vanguard against government abusing technology in a risky way? They should remain hidden, discreet and still keep their technological supremacy in order to make sure no government get in a position to repeat the errors of the past?


Thinking about all this, I may see how a Brotherhood splinter like the one we've seen in Fallout 3 might emerge. As they are getting more and more marginalized and less powerful in the West, they decided to create a new power base for themselves in the East, and take an active hand in its administration so no other rival power might emerge. Basically trying to cut the herb under the NCR feet, and maybe in the future have to deal with them with a more leveraged position?

... but a NCR/Washington of Steel rivalry might just cause another massive war that destroys civilization...

They are honorbound to serve their purpose. Depending on how you did certain quests

Spoiler: actual spoiler

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One of the possible ends to Victoria's companion quest has her failing to convince Elder MacNamara to change the Mojave Chapter's ways.
Paraphrased:
V: "Then we'll all die out."
M: "...I know."

Mostly, the BoS likes to justify killing everyone to loot their technology because they believe only the BoS can be trusted to keep it. The fight bloody wars over the control of unused technology just because its unsafe for anyone not them to even know it's there. The Mojave chapter is severely understrength, and one of the last chapters in the west.

The strongest areas, by contrast, are the Capital Wasteland and Midwest (from Tactics), where the BoS is much nicer to everyone around them.

Allegedly, their purpose is to preserve and make sure humanity survives. The bad ones think that humanity as a whole cannot be trusted with technology, and only the BoS can keep it safe. The nice ones think that keeping everyone alive is more important, and recruit from the populace to train them to not kill themselves with technology (like the Space Wolves recruiting from the best of the Fenrisians).

The Mojave chapter, at least, is completely screwed if they try to stay themselves. There are just physically not enough of them to sustain a population. To have any chance of surviving, they have to go into the wider world.

The Capital BoS seems nice enough, so they probably won't go crazy and destroy the world. Depending on what ends up being canon after New Vegas, what happens to the Western BoS is variable.

Spoiler: boop

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If the NCR is gone, and there are hidden chapters further west of the Mojave still surviving, they could come out of the ruins of old NCR territory and take control of the new wastelands.
With a friendly Courier and a powerful autonomous Vegas, they could be powerful with the Mr. House's lost technologies.

Going east might be hard though. While it is possible for singular people (like the CIA ghoul from Point Lookout), it stands to reason that small groups could travel across Legion territory (or formerly controlled and now heavily-chaotic post-legion territory), especially heavily armed and armored Paladins. I don't recall what lore is given on BoS logistics though, and I suppose Power Armor would be rather difficult to maintain, especially without knowing exactly where the iconic high-tech bunkers are.
The Capital Wasteland BoS is implied to have been a very large initial group sent in airships by the BoS leadership to retrieve Capital technology. The Midwest BoS is crashed remnants of a ship or two that got separated in a storm. I don't recall any airships in Fallout 3 either, it stands to reason theirs are dead/gone/broken and are stuck there now.

I think the only way BoS could become a major power in the west is by cooperating and intermixing with other groups, at which point they probably wouldn't be evil overlords.

[Thomas Cardew]

While I can see Florida as a possible location; I've got a few others I'd like to see. Mostly because I HATED the Point Lookout DLC.

Returning to the Capital Wasteland is up there. Move the timeline say 100 years down the line, Lone Wanderer needs to kick it yo. Maxson's child now lead the CW BOS. Megaton and Rivet City have formed a new nation with the CW BOS forming its military core. This nation controls project purity, which was unable to actually purify the Potomac, the radiation is too extensive *wave hands*. However, the project is still enough to produce thousands of gallons of clean water, but demand has reached the limits of its capacity. The West Coast remnants have arrived and combined with the outcasts and have started a full scale war for control of the purifier. The Commonwealth is expanding down as well. Unlikely, but I'd still like to see it play out.

My personal pet story places the game in Texas. San Antonio and Austin had merged into a megacity before the great war, and was the core of the US computer and robotics research. The southern half of the city where the majority of military base was located is the most heavily damaged. Seemingly uncontrolled robots roam the streets.

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Fort Hood, north of Austin and home to the 1st and 3rd Calvary, was a secondary target during the war and survived relatively unscathed due to weapons targeting malfunction. Following the collapse, the surviving Calvary units decided to reform into the New Texas Rangers who patrol the Texas Commonwealth, but the large majority of the organization is become increasingly tied up in dealing with the increasing robot threat emerging from Austin. An expedition was dispatched to find the source of the threat and eliminate it. The expedition set up base in the Alamo, but the large amounts of residual radiation prevented radio contact and nothing has been heard from them...

A BoS force operates in the area. On meeting the New Texas Rangers, in typical fashion they immediately demand the forfeiture of all power armor and other military technology. It went over as well as expected. The BoS lacks the resources to attack the Rangers directly and instead focuses harassing and capturing Ranger patrols; likewise the Rangers lack the resources to eliminate the BoS. Main story resolves around the BoS, the robot threat (AF Intelligence AI), and Rangers.

There's a smattering of vaults around the area, UT Austin is now a ghoul colony. Super Mutants, if we have to have them, come from the UTSA health science campus where FEV research was being preformed. I don't know if it's ever been specified where the microfusion cell was developed; if not Texas A&M is largest nuclear engineering program in the county... there could be some great shenanigans with an A&M corp armed with energy weapons that has fully devolved into a cult focused on destroy the UT ghoul colony. Throw in some crazy football religions, a DLC involving the Houston space center, and you've got gold. Austin fills the required destroyed city, there's good variety in terrain in the area. Scrub/plains to the west, hills to the north, forests to the south and east, and lakes everywhere.

Failing that I think Colorado would also be a great place, USAF Academy, NORAD, Rocky Flats? There's a lot of potential there.

EDIT: As far as outside the US? The Brit in me wants the UK, but I'm not sure how well it would work. China would also be cool but I doubt it could live up to expectations. Or split the difference and put it in Australia

[Hexalan]

While I can see Florida as a possible location; I've got a few other I'd like to see. Mostly because I HATED the Point Lookout DLC. I've got a couple other spots I'd like to see though.

Returning to the Capital Wasteland is up there. Move the timeline say 100 years down the line, Lone Wanderer needs to kick it yo. Maxson's child now lead the CW BOS. Megaton and Rivet City have formed a new nation with the CW BOS forming its military core. This nation controls project purity, which was unable to actually purify the Potomac, the radiation is too extensive *wave hands*. However, the project is still enough to produce thousands of gallons of clean water, but demand has reached the limits of its capacity. The West Coast remnants have arrived and combined with the outcasts and have started a full scale war for control of the purifier. The Commonwealth is expanding down as well. Unlikely, but I'd still like to see it play out.

My personal pet story places the game in Texas. San Antonio and Austin had merged into a megacity before the great war, and was the core of the US computer and robotics research. The southern half of the city where the majority of military base was located is the most heavily damaged. Seemingly, uncontrolled robots roam the streets.

Fort Hood, north of Austin and home to the 1st and 3rd Calvary, was a secondary target during the war and survived relatively unscathed due to weapons targeting malfunction. Following the collapse, the surviving Calvary units decided to reform into the New Texas Rangers who patrol the Texas Commonwealth, but the large majority of the organization is become increasingly tied up in dealing with the increasing robot threat emerging from Austin. An expedition was dispatched to find the source of the threat and eliminate it. The expedition set up base in the Alamo, but the large amounts of residual radiation prevented radio contact and nothing has been heard from them...

A BoS force operates in the area. On meeting the New Texas Rangers, in typical fashion they immediately demand the forfeiture of all power armor and other military technology. It went over as well as expected. The BoS lacks the resources to attack the Rangers directly and instead focuses harassing and capturing Ranger patrols; likewise the Rangers lack the resources to eliminate the BoS. Main story resolves around the BoS, the robot threat (AF Intelligence AI), and Rangers.

There's a smattering of vaults around the area, UT Austin is now a ghoul colony. Super Mutants, if we have to have them, come from the UTSA health science campus where FEV research was being preformed. I don't know if it's ever been specified where the microfusion cell was developed; if not Texas A&M is largest nuclear engineering program in the county... there could be some great shenanigans with an A&M corp armed with energy weapons that has fully devolved into a cult focused on destroy the UT ghoul colony. Throw in some crazy football religions, a DLC involving the Houston space center, and you've got gold. Austin fills the required destroyed city, there's good variety in terrain in the area. Scrub/plains to the west, hills to the north, forests to the south and east, and lakes everywhere.

Failing that I think Colorado would also be a great place, USAF Academy, NORAD, Rocky Flats? There's a lot of potential there.

Colorado has some opportunity, but Denver is the heart of Legion territory.

Texas does have (or did) BoS presence in the Fallout:BoS game, but I haven't played it so I'm not sure how much background it gives. They're chasing Super Mutants (whose BBEG is the final boss), but apparently he dies in the end. Allegedly, they set up base in the "Secret Vault", but that also apparently self-destructs. So, I'm really not sure what's going on there.

I'm pretty sure Europe was completely destroyed in the Resource Wars, and China may or may not be an even more heavily irradiated wasteland (the paradise that the REPCONN ghouls are getting to) than the US. I did read somewhere that in the plans for Fallout:BoS2 had them going all the way up to Alaska, so going north isn't entirely implausible.

[Thomas Cardew]

Colorado has some opportunity, but Denver is the heart of Legion territory.

Texas does have (or did) BoS presence in the Fallout:BoS game, but I haven't played it so I'm not sure how much background it gives. They're chasing Super Mutants (whose BBEG is the final boss), but apparently he dies in the end. Allegedly, they set up base in the "Secret Vault", but that also apparently self-destructs. So, I'm really not sure what's going on there.

I'm pretty sure Europe was completely destroyed in the Resource Wars, and China may or may not be an even more heavily irradiated wasteland (the paradise that the REPCONN ghouls are getting to) than the US. I did read somewhere that in the plans for Fallout:BoS2 had them going all the way up to Alaska, so going north isn't entirely implausible.

Was Colorado actually conquered by the Legion? I thought that was Van Buren and not canon; Arizona was the core of Legion territory specifically Flagstaff.

Likewise, a quick skim of the wiki shows that Fallout:BoS was declared non-canon.

The more I think about it, I just don't see Fallout leaving the US. It would mean leaving the BoS and a whole lot of iconic trademarks behind. But north is very plausible.

[Hexalan]

Was Colorado actually conquered by the Legion? I thought that was Van Buren and not canon; Arizona was the core of Legion territory specifically Flagstaff.

Likewise, a quick skim of the wiki shows that Fallout:BoS was declared non-canon.

The more I think about it, I just don't see Fallout leaving the US. It would mean leaving the BoS and a whole lot of iconic trademarks behind. But north is very plausible.

It's all broad strokes. So long as we have no canon saying otherwise, we can assume something in there is true.

The dog-raiser guy in Fortification Hill mentions that they have cyber-dogs in Denver.

[Eldest]

Colorado has some opportunity, but Denver is the heart of Legion territory.

Texas does have (or did) BoS presence in the Fallout:BoS game, but I haven't played it so I'm not sure how much background it gives. They're chasing Super Mutants (whose BBEG is the final boss), but apparently he dies in the end. Allegedly, they set up base in the "Secret Vault", but that also apparently self-destructs. So, I'm really not sure what's going on there.

I'm pretty sure Europe was completely destroyed in the Resource Wars, and China may or may not be an even more heavily irradiated wasteland (the paradise that the REPCONN ghouls are getting to) than the US. I did read somewhere that in the plans for Fallout:BoS2 had them going all the way up to Alaska, so going north isn't entirely implausible.

I actually think the Repconn ghouls are just sitting in orbit, enjoying the Van Allen belt or such. And I actually wanted Fallout 4 to be in the Boston area, spread across the border of the Commonwealth, so you have the cities, frontier, and wilderness depending how far away from civilization you go.

[Thomas Cardew]

It's all broad strokes. So long as we have no canon saying otherwise, we can assume something in there is true.

The dog-raiser guy in Fortification Hill mentions that they have cyber-dogs in Denver.

Eh, likewise we have no reason that they couldn't do it, in Texas at least. I know it's unlikely, but like I said my pet story.

As far as the dog-raiser in the Fort, fair enough, Denver is out. I.. I didn't spend much time in the Fort that didn't include the cleansing fire of a Plasma Rifle and/or Pistol.

I actually think the Repconn ghouls are just sitting in orbit, enjoying the Van Allen belt or such. And I actually wanted Fallout 4 to be in the Boston area, spread across the border of the Commonwealth, so you have the cities, frontier, and wilderness depending how far away from civilization you go.

OOH, that could be fun. But only if they don't go over board with the accents.