Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not 40K

[Cikomyr]

Possibly he could--but why would he want to? He gives no indication of wanting to rule the world at any point--he just wants Vegas and the dam.

But he wants to bleed the NCR dry, draw all of its economy, ressources and talents. Make New Vegas the figurative centre of the world. Ergo, its capital. If not political, at least cultural and economical.

He wants to rule all the world.. Or at least, all its relevant parts.

[Calemyr]

But he wants to bleed the NCR dry, draw all of its economy, ressources and talents. Make New Vegas the figurative centre of the world. Ergo, its capital. If not political, at least cultural and economical.

He wants to rule all the world.. Or at least, all its relevant parts.

I don't see it. Robert House always struck me as a firm believer in free choice - he just stacked the deck so that the choice you freely make would be the one he wanted. He doesn't hold a gun to your head, he just arranges the carrots and sticks in such a way that his offer makes the most sense.

Look at how he arranges things in New Vegas: He wakes up, shakes up the local tribes until they agree to work with him, then gives them resources, advice, and autonomy to run their casinos their way - as long as they play by the rules. He doesn't control, he guides. So, buying off everyone in leadership roles of the NCR? He could do it, but he wouldn't. Assassinating or preventing the assassination of a major political figure whose influence can alter the odds of an outcome he cares about? Yeah, in a heartbeat, no reservations.

He does want a cultural and economical capital, if only in the sense of an example of how post-war civilization can work. I don't think he has a lot invested in how other people use his example, just as long as New Vegas works.

[Sharoth]

Cool thread.

Any word yet on Fallout 4?

[Cikomyr]

I don't see it. Robert House always struck me as a firm believer in free choice - he just stacked the deck so that the choice you freely make would be the one he wanted. He doesn't hold a gun to your head, he just arranges the carrots and sticks in such a way that his offer makes the most sense.

Look at how he arranges things in New Vegas: He wakes up, shakes up the local tribes until they agree to work with him, then gives them resources, advice, and autonomy to run their casinos their way - as long as they play by the rules. He doesn't control, he guides. So, buying off everyone in leadership roles of the NCR? He could do it, but he wouldn't. Assassinating or preventing the assassination of a major political figure whose influence can alter the odds of an outcome he cares about? Yeah, in a heartbeat, no reservations.

He does want a cultural and economical capital, if only in the sense of an example of how post-war civilization can work. I don't think he has a lot invested in how other people use his example, just as long as New Vegas works.

House is a believer of free choice, as long as that free choice covers what he wants you to be doing. He usually has lots of honey nto convince you of acting the way he wants, but you are only given enough freedom not to interfere with his plans.

Its rather "normal" when dealing with a major power broker like him. But what I fear is just the effectiveness he goes at it. Humanity's future is the one HE envisioned, and nothing else.

[Eldest]

In two of the five possible endings for Novac, the Bright Followers return and either help Novac retain its independence from the NCR or evacuate its population before the Legion arrives. The other endings involve not completing the quest, completing the quest by murdering the lot of them, or completing the quest by sabotaging the rockets. All of these are inconsistent with the ghouls remaining in orbit.

Must have missed that. Dang. I liked the idea of ghouls sitting in orbit.

[cavalieredraghi]

House is a believer of free choice, as long as that free choice covers what he wants you to be doing. He usually has lots of honey nto convince you of acting the way he wants, but you are only given enough freedom not to interfere with his plans.

Its rather "normal" when dealing with a major power broker like him. But what I fear is just the effectiveness he goes at it. Humanity's future is the one HE envisioned, and nothing else.

you also should view House as a business man just as he veiws himself. afterall if you are a good karma at the end, and you sided with House, like a CEO listening to his board, he would listen to the courier advise, and goals just as much as his own, while still reaching his goals.

[Calemyr]

you also should view House as a business man just as he veiws himself. afterall if you are a good karma at the end, and you sided with House, like a CEO listening to his board, he would listen to the courier advise, and goals just as much as his own, while still reaching his goals.

Actually, if I remember correctly, there's at least one House ending where the House is explicitly listed as demonstrably proud of having the Courier as his "apprentice", so it seems likely the Courier has some say in a House-dominated Mojave.

Of course, if you include DLCs, the Courier darn well better. Especially if you assume the "under new management" ending of Old World Blues - the technological wealth of the Big Empty and the scientific genius of the Think Tank, all officially under the control of the Courier... it gets pretty hard not to think of House and the Courier as equal-ish partners. House really would have to be careful, frankly: if the Courier wanted to take him out, House would have nothing he could do to stop it. By level 30, even mark 2 securitrons are little more than a speed bump.

[Jayngfet]

I don't see it. Robert House always struck me as a firm believer in free choice - he just stacked the deck so that the choice you freely make would be the one he wanted. He doesn't hold a gun to your head, he just arranges the carrots and sticks in such a way that his offer makes the most sense.

Look at how he arranges things in New Vegas: He wakes up, shakes up the local tribes until they agree to work with him, then gives them resources, advice, and autonomy to run their casinos their way - as long as they play by the rules. He doesn't control, he guides. So, buying off everyone in leadership roles of the NCR? He could do it, but he wouldn't. Assassinating or preventing the assassination of a major political figure whose influence can alter the odds of an outcome he cares about? Yeah, in a heartbeat, no reservations.

He does want a cultural and economical capital, if only in the sense of an example of how post-war civilization can work. I don't think he has a lot invested in how other people use his example, just as long as New Vegas works.

The thing about Vegas is that it's entire economy is based on the idea of people coming away from elsewhere and handing over all their money and resources, then leaving with nothing, or else being the one in a thousand or million who gains to convince the other rubes to lose.

It might not be the capital in a literal sense, he has too much sense and knows how Washingtons defenses worked out with more money and resources and time to prepare, but in a figurative sense that's absolutely what he wants: To be the center of attention and the real power.

[Mobius Twist]

Has anyone tried refusing House or Ceasar in their "requests" to do something related to any of the many side factions? It plays out exactly like a toddler being denied a lollipop.

Ceasar immediately drops his amiable facade and calls you a "piece of [brahmin doo-doo]" and threatens to have you killed if you ever refuse him again in anything. You have one chance to do what he wants, walk away, or be killed on the spot.

House, especially if you refuse to take out the Brotherhood, is quite firm. He reminds you that your relationship is one of employee and employer and you're in no position to argue. You can then come back with Idolized reputation with the BOS and keep trying different approaches to no success. My courier was able to suggest using the BOS to fight the Legion AND/OR support the NCR (essentially the same conversation, just triggered with two different lines) and House is firmly against it.

So, no, I don't think House is an ultimate chess-master that deftly manipulates all outcomes to match his desires. His power base is, frankly, highly limited. Even without DLC the Courier is a far more capable (and active) actor in the Mojave. In the House ending he admits that he was almost caught unprepared by NCR scouts and negotiating the 5% of dam power to be directed to the Strip was critical to even keep basic Securitron/38 services running once his internal power plant was shut down. If the Courier doesn't redirect power to Fortification Fort AND hack the El Dorado substation, no amount of scheming would help House turn this around.

[GloatingSwine]

House, especially if you refuse to take out the Brotherhood, is quite firm. He reminds you that your relationship is one of employee and employer and you're in no position to argue. You can then come back with Idolized reputation with the BOS and keep trying different approaches to no success. My courier was able to suggest using the BOS to fight the Legion AND/OR support the NCR (essentially the same conversation, just triggered with two different lines) and House is firmly against it.

House's position of security relies on technological advantage, he claims the Brotherhood might one day be a threat to New Vegas, but what he means is that he can't control them and he doesn't like people he can't control on his turf.

House doesn't necessarily want to "rule the world", just Vegas, but he does want all but absolute control there (the kind where people are free to do only whatever he approves of).

[cavalieredraghi]

Again I think House is to much in the mentally that Vegas is a Business, he does not want to control it as much as it should run smoothly. Afterall he would want that, given all money eventually flows to him in Vegas. He also is viewed as wanting to better Humanity, and let them explore the stars. How ever we can't deny his Ego, if you kill him, your Pip-boy does give you that little epitaph when he dies, which you can assume he wrote, given his company was the creator of the Pip-boy.

[Nilehus]

In all fairness, he's not entirely wrong. In a few endings, they essentially become a raiding group focused on advanced technology.

[Jayngfet]

Ceasar immediately drops his amiable facade and calls you a "piece of [brahmin doo-doo]" and threatens to have you killed if you ever refuse him again in anything. You have one chance to do what he wants, walk away, or be killed on the spot.

House, especially if you refuse to take out the Brotherhood, is quite firm. He reminds you that your relationship is one of employee and employer and you're in no position to argue. You can then come back with Idolized reputation with the BOS and keep trying different approaches to no success. My courier was able to suggest using the BOS to fight the Legion AND/OR support the NCR (essentially the same conversation, just triggered with two different lines) and House is firmly against it.

These two things are basically the true test of character for House and Caesar. They're all well and good when they believe they hold the cards and you're just a stooge, but the moment someone challenges them or goes off script you see them for what they really are: Petty, ugly little tyrants with no concern other than their own gain. They both built their current power base by intimidating dumb tribals who didn't know enough to fight back and kept it by attacking anyone who can say different.

Far as I'm concerned, House is just an older, uglier Caesar. He's had more time to refine his "but only I can truly save humanity!" act, but the motel shows he doesn't care who he tramples to get from point A to point B, and Gomorrah shows he doesn't actually care what goes on in his turf so long as it's not a threat to him personally. The only ones in New Vegas that care about protecting others are the Kings, which are the only natives that take nothing from him and give nothing to him.

Which is why if I don't go independent it's usually NCR. There may be corruption but they're willing to bring actual law and order without slaughtering 90% of the people they meet. Dealing with the NCR is a question of finding which figure is best for the job at hand and won't screw up. Dealing with the Legion and House is a question of where's the most efficient place to stick the largest caliber bullet.

[BladeofObliviom]

In all fairness, he's not entirely wrong. In a few endings, they essentially become a raiding group focused on advanced technology.

And every other ending consists of them being dead/routed or being held in check by a truce with NCR.

[cavalieredraghi]

In all fairness, he's not entirely wrong. In a few endings, they essentially become a raiding group focused on advanced technology.

i have seen those ending, and it makes me sad that Obsidian portrayed the Brotherhood in such a way. while i can see it happening i would have thought by that point in Fallout time line the Eastern/Chicago Brotherhood would have reached the western Brotherhood. and proved their point about being open and recruit versus secluded and unmovable.
If you are not sure what i am talking about it is Fallout Tactics the last game worth talking about before fallout 3 Fallout Brotherhood, was crap and did not deserve the name Fallout.

These two things are basically the true test of character for House and Caesar. They're all well and good when they believe they hold the cards and you're just a stooge, but the moment someone challenges them or goes off script you see them for what they really are: Petty, ugly little tyrants with no concern other than their own gain. They both built their current power base by intimidating dumb tribals who didn't know enough to fight back and kept it by attacking anyone who can say different.

Far as I'm concerned, House is just an older, uglier Caesar. He's had more time to refine his "but only I can truly save humanity!" act, but the motel shows he doesn't care who he tramples to get from point A to point B, and Gomorrah shows he doesn't actually care what goes on in his turf so long as it's not a threat to him personally. The only ones in New Vegas that care about protecting others are the Kings, which are the only natives that take nothing from him and give nothing to him.

Which is why if I don't go independent it's usually NCR. There may be corruption but they're willing to bring actual law and order without slaughtering 90% of the people they meet. Dealing with the NCR is a question of finding which figure is best for the job at hand and won't screw up. Dealing with the Legion and House is a question of where's the most efficient place to stick the largest caliber bullet.

I agree with this, While House like have said has a more Business attitude, he is still a tyrant. Until the Lonesome Road DLC came up i usually sided with NRC, even after i'd side with NCR, but not until i got the 21 trenchcoat, versus the NCR trenchcoat.

[Nilehus]

And every other ending consists of them being dead/routed or being held in check by a truce with NCR.

Precisely. In terms of tolerance for other cultures, this branch of BoS ranks juuust slightly above the Legion. The only thing that this particular branch understands is force.

[GolemsVoice]

Being Legion means getting a bullet to the head in my playthrough. They're nothing but slavers and rapists, bullies who have evolved to using an ideology to justify their bullying. Now, as a faction in Fallout they're cool, if a bit under-explored, but personally they get me riled up. Which probably means the developers did something right

[Jayngfet]

Being Legion means getting a bullet to the head in my playthrough. They're nothing but slavers and rapists, bullies who have evolved to using an ideology to justify their bullying. Now, as a faction in Fallout they're cool, if a bit under-explored, but personally they get me riled up. Which probably means the developers did something right

Honestly, I can't even work up the energy after all this time.

They're kind of cheap if you don't have a knee jerk reaction to them. There's no subtelty or nuance to them and there's not much that's actually compelling about them as a group besides being the big foreign army. Rape and Murder are bottom tier in terms of narrative crimes simply because of how unambiguous they are.

Heck Gunderson is a compelling antagonist, because he forces the player to choose between two different wrongs(helping a corrupt cattle baron, or helping a psychotic cannibal). Benny is a compelling antagonist, because he's one step ahead of you right until you get to vegas itself, and even then he has you outnumbered and outgunned. Even the Brotherhood can be compelling simply because they have actual shades of grey to them and what they want.

But Caesar tries way too hard to be a good villain and it just falls flat.

[Nerd-o-rama]

These two things are basically the true test of character for House and Caesar. They're all well and good when they believe they hold the cards and you're just a stooge, but the moment someone challenges them or goes off script you see them for what they really are: Petty, ugly little tyrants with no concern other than their own gain. They both built their current power base by intimidating dumb tribals who didn't know enough to fight back and kept it by attacking anyone who can say different.

Far as I'm concerned, House is just an older, uglier Caesar. He's had more time to refine his "but only I can truly save humanity!" act, but the motel shows he doesn't care who he tramples to get from point A to point B, and Gomorrah shows he doesn't actually care what goes on in his turf so long as it's not a threat to him personally. The only ones in New Vegas that care about protecting others are the Kings, which are the only natives that take nothing from him and give nothing to him.

Which is why if I don't go independent it's usually NCR. There may be corruption but they're willing to bring actual law and order without slaughtering 90% of the people they meet. Dealing with the NCR is a question of finding which figure is best for the job at hand and won't screw up. Dealing with the Legion and House is a question of where's the most efficient place to stick the largest caliber bullet.

I think, at least in terms of their leadership, the NCR presence in the Mojave isn't portrayed much better than Caesar or House. Moore and Oliver both also fly off their rockers if opposed or questioned, it's just that they have civilization and democratic process holding them back from throwing you out or filling you full of holes (and Oliver, not even that, though you can cow him into retreat if you prefer not to fight or execute him). Their actual policies are certainly less onerous on their citizens than Caesar's, and no more exploitative than House's, but the personalities you find in charge...

There's no perfect options for the ruler of New Vegas. There's only degrees of flawed.

[cavalieredraghi]

I think, at least in terms of their leadership, the NCR presence in the Mojave isn't portrayed much better than Caesar or House. Moore and Oliver both also fly off their rockers if opposed or questioned, it's just that they have civilization and democratic process holding them back from throwing you out or filling you full of holes. Their actual policies are certainly less onerous on their citizens than Caesar's, and no more exploitative than House's, but the personalities you find in charge...

There's no perfect options for the ruler of New Vegas. There's only degrees of flawed.

I think that is a point how ever, given that all people are flawed, it is just which flawed person are you willing to side with, or instead go your own way, which is still flawed. But one i remember that seems differant from previous Fallouts is the NCR Rangers. Correct me if i am wrong.
When they were shown in Fallout 2 they were not techinquely apart of the military but members of a group that were anti Slavery. infact to enter them you had to free the slaves that were held in pens outside the NCR capital. Now they are specialist in the NCR that were good at combat and wasteland survival, what happened there back story please?

[Jayngfet]

I think, at least in terms of their leadership, the NCR presence in the Mojave isn't portrayed much better than Caesar or House. Moore and Oliver both also fly off their rockers if opposed or questioned, it's just that they have civilization and democratic process holding them back from throwing you out or filling you full of holes (and Oliver, not even that, though you can cow him into retreat if you prefer not to fight or execute him). Their actual policies are certainly less onerous on their citizens than Caesar's, and no more exploitative than House's, but the personalities you find in charge...

There's no perfect options for the ruler of New Vegas. There's only degrees of flawed.

...yeah, but there's something actually holding them back. You can actually use their system to prevent bloodbaths and save lives.

If they get too screwy, there's methods of sending them packing and promoting someone actually capable. Caesar's only replacement is even worse and House has no secondary besides you and a couple of sexbots.

[Calemyr]

i have seen those ending, and it makes me sad that Obsidian portrayed the Brotherhood in such a way. while i can see it happening i would have thought by that point in Fallout time line the Eastern/Chicago Brotherhood would have reached the western Brotherhood. and proved their point about being open and recruit versus secluded and unmovable.
If you are not sure what i am talking about it is Fallout Tactics the last game worth talking about before fallout 3 Fallout Brotherhood, was crap and did not deserve the name Fallout.

I don't think any level of success could force Elijah to accept the Lyons' point of view, and the Hidden Valley chapter is the group that revere him as their hero. Sarah Lyons could be declared president of the wasteland for her selfless and unrelenting heroism and Elijah would dismiss her as a weak-willed sellout, and MacNamarah would parrot the sentiment.

At this point we have four factions:

Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel: Our original purpose is finished. The dark age after the bombs have passed, and we have little reason to fear the loss of the knowledge we once protected. But we still have power others lack. I propose we use it to define a place in this world for ourselves, as a force for protection rather than oppression. People don't have to fear us, they don't have to hate us. If they can love us, if they can rely on us, then we can yet make a world that works.

Outcasts: We sided with Lyons over Elijah, but we now see that both of them have lost sight of our purpose. We are not raiders stealing tech from the world, we are not policemen putting ourselves between primitives and other primitives. We are scientists and caretakers with a sworn duty to collect, study, and protect the relics of the old world. We won't dilute our ideals with petty pandering and tainted blood. And if we need to work with a primitive to advance our mission, well... they are expendable.

Elijah's Brotherhood of Steel: We have failed in our original purpose. Technology is already too widely spread. We cannot simply be the passive caretakers of the past, we must take our territory by force, steal back what has already been stolen and fight back where our territory is encroached. We will fight to the last man, the last woman, and if we die in pursuit of our purpose... well, that's still better than abandoning it.

Circle of Steel: Elijah's militarism is insane. No, worse than that, it's stupid. We don't want to be heroes, but we don't need to be warriors either. If we die for our cause, our cause dies with us. We must move with the times, find a new way of doing what we are sworn to. Right now, the biggest threat to the Brotherhood of Steel is not the NCR, or the Legion, or raiders or prospectors, or the Followers. It's Elijah. He must be destroyed and the Brotherhood born anew, without the diseased zealotry of Elijah and his followers.

[BladeofObliviom]

I think, at least in terms of their leadership, the NCR presence in the Mojave isn't portrayed much better than Caesar or House. Moore and Oliver both also fly off their rockers if opposed or questioned, it's just that they have civilization and democratic process holding them back from throwing you out or filling you full of holes (and Oliver, not even that, though you can cow him into retreat if you prefer not to fight or execute him). Their actual policies are certainly less onerous on their citizens than Caesar's, and no more exploitative than House's, but the personalities you find in charge...

There's no perfect options for the ruler of New Vegas. There's only degrees of flawed.

This isn't entirely fair. Yes, both Moore and Oliver aren't really much better than Caesar or House (though at least Oliver will stand down if you threaten to destroy the NCR Embassy; neither Caesar or House would balk at the death of civilians).

On the other hand, try refusing Ambassador Crocker's missions after he requests a meeting. He's clearly not pleased, but he neither threatens you nor does he even seem angry. He just dismisses you with the mention that the offer's still open if you change your mind. Colonel Hsu doesn't ask for your help at all, is consistently polite and rational in basically all circumstances and appropriately gracious if you do choose to lighten the burden on his shoulders.

[Mobius Twist]

They're nothing but [...] bullies who have evolved to using an ideology to justify their bullying.

Also applicable to:

NCR
House
Kings
Khans
Brotherhood of Steel
Powder Gangers
Fiends, Jackals, Scorpions, other unnamed raiders

About the only peaceful faction are the Followers of the Apocalypse, and even they're not benevolent or harmless. They teach everyone, which means they sometimes get results like the Khans (drug manufacture) without intending to do harm.

[Calemyr]

Also applicable to:

NCR
House
Kings
Khans
Brotherhood of Steel
Powder Gangers
Fiends, Jackals, Scorpions, other unnamed raiders

About the only peaceful faction are the Followers of the Apocalypse, and even they're not benevolent or harmless. They teach everyone, which means they sometimes get results like the Khans (drug manufacture) without intending to do harm.

Not sure I agree where it comes to the Kings. Pacer is a xenophobic halfwit, but the King is pretty darn benevolent. He wants nothing beyond the people under his care being safe. He doesn't even mind outside mercenaries showing his men up, as long as they're legit. Of course, his vision is too limited to be meaningful, so he's not on the level of NCR, House, or Caesar.

And yeah, that's actually one of the interesting aspects of the Followers: benevolence without prejudice. If they enforced their ideals on others, they wouldn't be any different than any of the other factions in the Wastelands. Instead, they do everything in their power to assist and educate those around them, regardless of what those people will do with it. It's both the most pure benevolence in the setting and also the most destructive naivete as well, being directly responsible for the Legion. I find it's a really interesting faction, one that can spawn heroes and villains alike.

[Cikomyr]

Precisely. In terms of tolerance for other cultures, this branch of BoS ranks juuust slightly above the Legion. The only thing that this particular branch understands is force.

Kind of why i proposed.my Brotherhood/Legion alliance earlier in the thread.

One group wants to take away high technologies from the hands of others, the other wants to outright ban it. Their purposes are oddly in accord, their respective scale of morality do not conflict. Both are highly militaristics, their respective assets are compatible.

Plus, Caesar would have that Technology Disposal Service so next time, he will not have to hire a Courier to blow up a high-tech Bunker.

You only need to tweak the Legion a little, which is hardly beyond Caesar's vision.

[Triaxx]

The annoying thing is that the option to have the Brotherhood and House come to a truce was cut from the game. And none of the mods I've found successfully restores that.

I have tried to work with House, several times, but in the end I get to the Brotherhood and always end up shooting him in the face just so I can spare them. Perhaps it's too much Tactics and 3, and 2, where the Brotherhood was awesome. The isolationist jerks they are in NV was never enough to break that hold on me.

As for House, he's more a Chessmaster than anything, but I find he strays into Affably Evil as much as Caesar does. My feelings on the Legion are expressed as follows: Minigun, minigun, ANNABELLE.

[shadow_archmagi]

Chris Avellone enjoys 'moral dilemmas' that are thinly veiled excuses to lecture the player on morality. And no, you're never right. Even if you give the orphan the strength to save itself, a cartful of kittens exploded because you were so focused on the orphan.

And that's TERRIBLE and YOU are terrible for letting it happen.

Honestly though KOTOR 2 has really grown on me the last few years, even Kreia.

Kind of why i proposed.my Brotherhood/Legion alliance earlier in the thread.

This makes a lot of sense. I could definitely see the legion allying itself with some tech-specialists, as long as they were sufficiently hardcore. Adapting mythology and narrative to his own purposes is Caesar's whole gig. I could definitely see them maintaining a splinter of the Brotherhood as a pool of experts and super-heavy infantry.

"When the mightiest warriors of the Legion prove insufficient, Caesar may call upon his Burning Angels, who are impervious to attack and hurl fire and thunder at the apostate!"



That said, I'm always really confused by the people who present the NCR and Legion as roughly equivalent. One side reliably stabs faces, the other side sometimes takes bribes. One of those is orders of magnitude more problematic than the other.

[BladeofObliviom]

Kind of why i proposed.my Brotherhood/Legion alliance earlier in the thread.

One group wants to take away high technologies from the hands of others, the other wants to outright ban it. Their purposes are oddly in accord, their respective scale of morality do not conflict. Both are highly militaristics, their respective assets are compatible.

Plus, Caesar would have that Technology Disposal Service so next time, he will not have to hire a Courier to blow up a high-tech Bunker.

You only need to tweak the Legion a little, which is hardly beyond Caesar's vision.

The logic underlying this post demonstrates some serious misunderstandings of both Brotherhood of Steel and Legion ideologies.

The Legion does not wish to "outright ban high technologies" in such a manner as you describe, and the technologies that they DO wish to ban are banned on a universal level; that is, they're not treated as acceptable when outsiders are using them. They believe that technology should not be used as a crutch, by them or by anyone else. In Caesar's eyes, if you're born with a heart defect and can't live normally without medication, you don't deserve to live at all, and any delusion otherwise weakens humanity as a whole. If you need special powered armor to make you stronger in battle, you don't deserve it. Making Robots fight for you? Pathetic. However, they have no rules against things like Energy Weapons, and in fact expressed interest in buying some from the Van Graffs. They'll happily use a Howitzer to suppress enemy snipers. They equip their higher ranks with Marksman Carbines, Anti-Materiel Rifles, Super Sledges, and other high-tier weapons. (Caesar himself is a massive hypocrite, but I'm discussing general Legion ideology here.)

Meanwhile, the Brotherhood of Steel hardliners DO want to take all that delicious, delicious candy military technology from everyone in sight. However, people often forget that the Brotherhood is quasi-religious and strictly follows the Codex. The Codex includes a detailed hierarchy of command, with the High Elder safely at the top. The High Elder is usually of Maxson descent, and ALL Elders are drawn from the ranks of the Brotherhood itself, usually from the oldest and most experienced Paladins. What the Codex does NOT say is "Kneel before Caesar", and Caesar is neither a Maxson nor a member of the Brotherhood, so it's doubtful that he could become High Elder. Unless he intends to share power (like that's going to happen...), the Codex forbids any member of the Brotherhood of Steel from serving the Legion.

There's also the whole thing where both factions hate everything that the other stands for.



The sample situation you suggest, where Caesar sends the Brotherhood to destroy the bunker for him, is actually an excellent demonstration of why the two factions are fundamentally opposed to one another. Caesar can allow nothing but the bunker's destruction, as befitting the Legion's ideology of mankind supporting itself rather than relying on technology to do so. The Brotherhood would go to every length possible to control this army of killbots rather than destroying it, as it is a valuable source of prewar technology to be preserved.

These two directives cannot be peacefully resolved.

[NeoVid]

You know, after seeing so many people hoping the Independent ending will be canon, I realized I was always assuming it couldn't be. Just because the devs wouldn't be willing to put up with a million different players saying, "My Courier did what between games?!"