Legend of Zelda lore rewrite (WIP)

[Darkstand]

A few recent postings of Hylian 5E stuff made me want to run a Zelda D&D game. Here is my attempt so far to make Hyrule D&D adventurer friendly:

Zelda, Link and Gannondorf reincarnate through the years, and battle time and time again. Link and Zelda never remember who they are, but Gannondorf does. This, and the Power of the triforce, makes him a dangerous foe... and drive him slightly insane.
These wars tear the land apart no matter who wins. With the guidance of the goddesses*, a council of Sages is formed to deal with the threat. They are tasked with recognizing the signs of the cycle, and to aid Link and Zelda in their fight. These sages is granted magical power in the form of Medallions or 'Seals'. Each Sage must prove their worth by transversing the Temples associated, dangerous tests of mettle and wits. There can only ever be one Sage for each seal at a time, the seal returns to the temple upon the death of the sage to await the next worthy soul.

After dozens of cycles, Zelda and Link decide that the reincarnation cycle must end. Link fights Gannondorf, and Zelda seals the trio away, stopping time within the abandoned Hyrule castle. Not having died, they never reincarnated. This was about 200-300 years ago.

*In one of many divergent points, the goddesses never left Hyrule, but merely took a stance on non-interference. They would guide and educate, but would not intervene. Only the threat of permanent world destruction can sway them from this. Din especially believes that the conflict and adversity will make humanity stronger.

I'm still tweaking the details, especially as I try to reconcile early Hyrule history. Neither demise nor Hylia are incorporated yet, nor is any mention of the early pre-triforce Hyrule civilization. I figure that that can be used as yea old 'advanced dead civilization' and populate lots of old ruins and such. The Twili are also not yet incorporated. And I need to. Because they are awesome.

[Tovec]

One of my first thoughts when reading this was to think about the Fable series. Especially 2 and 3. The events of 1 happened, they were important, world-ending stuff... but the world has moved on. There are lost temples, ruined areas that have been taken over by other things. Basically the world is advanced, built upon the leftovers from the previous era(s). I'd love to see that here. I love the moment when I realized that a city had sprung up in an area that was the Heroes Guildhouse (or whatever it is called - its been some years since I played Fable 2). That moment of recognition made the game for me. I'm curious how you incorporate such aspects here. I assume certain things are simply said to be the same, but there can be a lot of changes too - languages could spring up, or new names for old places.

200-300 years - in human years that's a very long time. I don't know about the elves and what not of the Zelda-verse. I'm just saying, pick any 300 year stretch in history and you can see the major advances that occurred over that period. I'd love to see what happens in Zelda-land when it isn't being continually remade. Maybe some level of magitech or just using regular gear Link would have used, in new ways. Are hookshots a common item or an uncommon one, what effect does that have on the world? When the world isn't kept in stasis for the same three to rise over and over, there can be a lot of cool advancement. How many cycles are supposed to have occurred in that same stretch? Are there many old wizards in caves waiting for the chosen one to show up and get their item (because 'It's Dangerous to Go Alone! Take This')?

I also think it would be really cool, after playing around in this world, if the spell was broken and the three break free. How Gannondorf reacts to a world full of potential Links to deal with. Or with Zelda having to adjust to a world that no longer needs a monarch? Or Link when he isn't the only one with a Master Sword. Or just what kind of organizations inspired by the people of the legend, might have sprung up over the centuries? Gannondorf with an army of evil creatures who have been working to free him and start the cycle over?

I like the idea. Such a cool concept. I love when people take interesting concepts and then flip them on their face to make something new. Similar to the ten minutes of fun my mind had when I read (I think it was on this board) and subsequently tried to imagine a post-V for Vendetta England. Hope this develops, I'll be watching.

[Darkstand]

First off, I want to put a disclaimer here that as of now this is only a thought experiment, with no current plans for implementation. That won't stop me from elaborating it to death though.

One of my first thoughts when reading this was to think about the Fable series. Especially 2 and 3. The events of 1 happened, they were important, world-ending stuff... but the world has moved on. There are lost temples, ruined areas that have been taken over by other things. Basically the world is advanced, built upon the leftovers from the previous era(s). I'd love to see that here. I love the moment when I realized that a city had sprung up in an area that was the Heroes Guildhouse (or whatever it is called - its been some years since I played Fable 2). That moment of recognition made the game for me. I'm curious how you incorporate such aspects here. I assume certain things are simply said to be the same, but there can be a lot of changes too - languages could spring up, or new names for old places.

One of the ideas I had that I swore I wrote on here was that the Sages are being forgotten, with less people attempting the tests (which were succeed or die) and some of the temples falling into abandon or being forgotten altogether. Now, these locations are almost artifacts themselves, so won't decay that quick (think about some of the temples in OoT) but the secrets will be. Like how to get in. So the relics of the past will certainly come into play.
I've always been pleased with this element in the games, and its something I want to see. Ocarina of Time was particularly good, due to the time mechanic, but even seeing the temple in various games (or collapsed in Twilight Princess) and other locations was always a part of it.

200-300 years - in human years that's a very long time. I don't know about the elves and what not of the Zelda-verse. I'm just saying, pick any 300 year stretch in history and you can see the major advances that occurred over that period. I'd love to see what happens in Zelda-land when it isn't being continually remade. Maybe some level of magitech or just using regular gear Link would have used, in new ways. Are hookshots a common item or an uncommon one, what effect does that have on the world? When the world isn't kept in stasis for the same three to rise over and over, there can be a lot of cool advancement.

I may adjust the time frame. My intent was to have enough time for society to pick up the pieces, but not really to advance past D&D levels overmuch. (D&D levels still being above LoZA levels for the most part, exceptional individuals aside). But some of the magics are being studied more intelligently, and cultures have advanced (and begun infighting).

As far as LoZ items becoming common, I figure they are more common than the games (where there was ever only one) but not everyday items. People have begun replicating the old magics that created them, but the first copies are inferior clones. And, like usual, magic is expensive.

How many cycles are supposed to have occurred in that same stretch? Are there many old wizards in caves waiting for the chosen one to show up and get their item (because 'It's Dangerous to Go Alone! Take This')?

As for how quick the cycles were, I was still debating that.
Option 1: One each generation. IE there is ALWAYS a Gannondorf, when one dies another is born within a few years.
Option 2: One every few generations, juuust enough time for people to start rebuilding and forgetting. So that few if any people would still be alive from the last time.
I'm leaning towards 2. But this was happening for a long time, a few dozen cycles or more. I think Zelda looking into history and/or gaining access to past life memory may be what prompted the plan to end the cycle.
I don't know if I elaborated this, but the fight is more than just the three of them. Gannondorf is very good at tricking/bribing/tempting people into supporting him. He sometimes ends up with a veritable army, even without the monsters. It takes the combined strength of many to combat this, with Link, Zelda and the Sages being focal points. And the Sages can be corrupted just as much as anyone else. (Zelda is much better at this side of things).

I also think it would be really cool, after playing around in this world, if the spell was broken and the three break free. How Gannondorf reacts to a world full of potential Links to deal with. Or with Zelda having to adjust to a world that no longer needs a monarch? Or Link when he isn't the only one with a Master Sword. Or just what kind of organizations inspired by the people of the legend, might have sprung up over the centuries? Gannondorf with an army of evil creatures who have been working to free him and start the cycle over?

Very much a concept dangled in front of potential DM's. I figure Link and Zelda as epic level adventurers and Gannondorf as near-demigod. Gannondorf has proven a resiliant bugger to stop permanently. It would be even WORSE if he got out and the others did not. (I considered just having Gannnondorf as a sealed evil, and the 'role' of the other two not being around, but that involves redefining or removing the Triforce. Not the end of the world, but it drifts away from being Hyrule if you do so.)

On the subject of Gannondorf: one of the signs of the cycle is the insurgence of monsters. They never completely go away, but when Gannondorf is around they grow in numbers, and organize. I figure when he got sealed away the monsters were never killed (link not being around). They were leaderless, and scattered, but still high in number. Now, that may have changed in the time between then and now. Or not.
The master sword should still remain as something unique, as will a few others. Artifacts that cannot be recreated. Either we don't have the knowhow or they were divinely aided. Or both.
THIS thread is one of the ones I got the idea from, and has a lot of items replicated fairly well.
THIS is the other thread of note.

Link = fighter, Zelda = Cleric, Gannondorf = Warlock/Sorcerer (at least as base)

I like the idea. Such a cool concept. I love when people take interesting concepts and then flip them on their face to make something new. Similar to the ten minutes of fun my mind had when I read (I think it was on this board) and subsequently tried to imagine a post-V for Vendetta England. Hope this develops, I'll be watching.

Thanks! I seem to have a lot of these interesting ideas, but they often don't get off the ground. I have probably a dozen unique settings made or partially detailed that never saw use. I should write some of them up, maybe they can inspire someone else.... Mostly I put this thread up because it came up in another thread and I did not want to hijack the thread :-P
I still need to figure out early myth. I'm probably putting the initial splitting of the triforce in a more advanced culture that fell with the original triforce war (that has played out time and time again). But is the flying city of skyloft? Are Demise and Hylia making any appearances? And where do the Twili come from anyway? (Was never clear in the game either... maybe we should just keep it that way. They exist, histories don't seem to match, no one really knows. Very good at magic, but physically weak? The sunlight weakness is a nice idea... but mechanics comes after lore is done. Besides, I'm better at lore.)
I'm planning to have all of what I consider major races appear. That means Gorons, Zora, Hylian/Sheikah/Gerudo (human subraces), Kokiri (whatever they are.... not plant people, but how DOES a race of children propagate?), Twili, Deku Scrub, and a lot of the monsters. D&D should be fairly good at emulating the monsters anyway.

While I'm on the subject, a lot of the fan theories about the origin of the temples may be good fodder for inspiration, even if I have a different explanation built in does not mean that the events theorized did not happen. As well, the delving into the grimmer implications of stuff is a very good base for D&D campaigns and possible plot hooks. Those ghosts/skeletons/zombies/torture chambers/weird giant bloody mutant albino hands all came from somewhere.
...god the shadow temple was creepy.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Isn't it always the way? I was also writing up a legend of Zelda setting to run with fifth edition. It's pretty similar to what you have so far, and we've even decided to use the same fan made material! I am in the middle of composing everything in a PHB, including stuff like a map, changes to lore, and list of new items and magic stuff. Again, we even have the same reason for copies of unique items being around: copycats can't make perfect replicas, but they can make weaker versions occasionally.

In my version, Zelda decides that the reincarnation cycle is ultimately too destructive and causes too much heartache and death for the common people, as well as the fact that all it takes for the world to be destroyed is for Link and Zelda to screw up once. At the end of a another grand adventure and an epic battle between the forces of good and evil, Zelda shatters the three tri-force pieces and the souls of their wielders and scatters them throughout the cosmos and time.

Without the reincarnation cycle, things get screwy. The setting is 100 years later, in the middle of a very long Civil War between the various branches of the royal family. They are stalemated trying to put someone on the throne again, but all of the current monarchs are descended from cadet branches of the royal family, and so they don't trust each other enough to peacefully decide. In the meantime, the Gerudo, no longer having to worry about their male children becoming demons, have a population explosion and become a mighty empire in the desert. The Zora, Gorons, Kokiri and other old client races of the Hylians have become independent states, with the Sheikah becoming a mysterious, ninja like faction, waging a shadow war in attempt to return Hyrule to its former glory, albeit with incredibly dark methods. The twili return, apparantly as immigrants to Hyrule, and they begin establishing Shadow Quarters in every major city.

But there is a new faction: the Wardens of Time. With the end of the reincarnations cycle, there is no longer a hero of time to bail Hyrule out of catastrophes and mishaps. So, based in the relatively young Lon Lon city, The wardens seek to fill that gap. They fight monsters, they help the innocent, and they seek out lost treasures of Hyrule's glory (insert "it belongs in a museum" joke here), and even protect Hyrule when it is threatened.

The existence of the wardens, and indeed the existence of any powerful PC classes, may at times seem at odds with the central theme of the Zelda mythos. The answer of course lies in the tri-force. It being scattered throughout the universe, almost every living being has some small, infinitesimally small part of it. The more adventuring people go on, the more experiences they have, the more monsters they defeat, and the more they act upon courage, wisdom, or power, the greater their part of the tri-force grows, granting them more and more of its divine power in a small way.

So another word for tri-force in my setting would be, XP.

And that's it so far for me. I can post some of the setting handbook I've made if you'd care to see it?

[Darkstand]

Isn't it always the way? I was also writing up a legend of Zelda setting to run with fifth edition. It's pretty similar to what you have so far, and we've even decided to use the same fan made material! I am in the middle of composing everything in a PHB, including stuff like a map, changes to lore, and list of new items and magic stuff. Again, we even have the same reason for copies of unique items being around: copycats can't make perfect replicas, but they can make weaker versions occasionally.

Not being graphically inclined, I might be interested in your maps if you ever finalize them. I was just going to steal one of the maps from OoT or TP.

In my version, Zelda decides that the reincarnation cycle is ultimately too destructive and causes too much heartache and death for the common people, as well as the fact that all it takes for the world to be destroyed is for Link and Zelda to screw up once. At the end of a another grand adventure and an epic battle between the forces of good and evil, Zelda shatters the three tri-force pieces and the souls of their wielders and scatters them throughout the cosmos and time.

Without the reincarnation cycle, things get screwy. The setting is 100 years later, in the middle of a very long Civil War between the various branches of the royal family. They are stalemated trying to put someone on the throne again, but all of the current monarchs are descended from cadet branches of the royal family, and so they don't trust each other enough to peacefully decide. In the meantime, the Gerudo, no longer having to worry about their male children becoming demons, have a population explosion and become a mighty empire in the desert. The Zora, Gorons, Kokiri and other old client races of the Hylians have become independent states, with the Sheikah becoming a mysterious, ninja like faction, waging a shadow war in attempt to return Hyrule to its former glory, albeit with incredibly dark methods. The twili return, apparantly as immigrants to Hyrule, and they begin establishing Shadow Quarters in every major city.

The races sound about what I figured, although I am going to keep the Gerudo 'males only born every few generations' bit, and have that child still be fated for power. The national intrigue sounds about what I was thinking too. Hrmmmm..... if the Twili are returning en mass, whats going on in the twilight realm? Are they running from something? Will it follow? Or is it just a matter of collapse? Hrmmm.... political exile? Just wanderlust?

But there is a new faction: the Wardens of Time. With the end of the reincarnations cycle, there is no longer a hero of time to bail Hyrule out of catastrophes and mishaps. So, based in the relatively young Lon Lon city, The wardens seek to fill that gap. They fight monsters, they help the innocent, and they seek out lost treasures of Hyrule's glory (insert "it belongs in a museum" joke here), and even protect Hyrule when it is threatened.

The existence of the wardens, and indeed the existence of any powerful PC classes, may at times seem at odds with the central theme of the Zelda mythos. The answer of course lies in the tri-force. It being scattered throughout the universe, almost every living being has some small, infinitesimally small part of it. The more adventuring people go on, the more experiences they have, the more monsters they defeat, and the more they act upon courage, wisdom, or power, the greater their part of the tri-force grows, granting them more and more of its divine power in a small way.

So another word for tri-force in my setting would be, XP.

I had a similar idea, but went in a different direction. May still change that, although the idea of Link, Zelda and Gannondorf sealed in a can amuses me.
When I considered that path I had individuals 'catalyze' or 'awaken' during moments that coincided with the nature of the triforce:
Courage can awaken when a individual acts despite danger. Tends to favor martial classes.
Wisdom can awaken with breadth of knowledge and desire for learning. Tends towards studies of skill and intellect.
Power can awaken from raw ambition and force of will. Tends to favor arcane classes.

And that's it so far for me. I can post some of the setting handbook I've made if you'd care to see it?

Perhaps. Like I said, I have no current plans to run this, it was just a thought experiment that I thought others could benefit from.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Courage can awaken when a individual acts despite danger. Tends to favor martial classes.
Wisdom can awaken with breadth of knowledge and desire for learning. Tends towards studies of skill and intellect.
Power can awaken from raw ambition and force of will. Tends to favor arcane classes.

You could use the Generic Classes variant for this. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...ricClasses.htm

However, you could make an argument that the three aspects of the Triforce are spread equally across the three classes too. None of the three aspects is defined by magic, none of the three aspects is defined by skill, and none of the three aspects is defined by fighting. After all, the whole point of the Legend of Zelda is that the greatest accomplishment is balance between the three. I wouldn't push very hard to make this specific connection because the three aspects can define any adventurer or hero.

[GloatingSwine]

After dozens of cycles, Zelda and Link decide that the reincarnation cycle must end. Link fights Gannondorf, and Zelda seals the trio away, stopping time within the abandoned Hyrule castle. Not having died, they never reincarnated. This was about 200-300 years ago.

This was what happened between OoT and Wind Waker.

Doesn't hold him down.

Also, the idea of reincarnation isn't what happens in Zelda, again because of Wind Waker, because there was no Link to reincarnate in that timeline

[Darkstand]

You could use the Generic Classes variant for this. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...ricClasses.htm

However, you could make an argument that the three aspects of the Triforce are spread equally across the three classes too. None of the three aspects is defined by magic, none of the three aspects is defined by skill, and none of the three aspects is defined by fighting. After all, the whole point of the Legend of Zelda is that the greatest accomplishment is balance between the three. I wouldn't push very hard to make this specific connection because the three aspects can define any adventurer or hero.

The difference between 'awakenings' was less a restriction and more a thematic bit. There WOULD need to be an awakening, but I could justify a character going against norm easily. Its a tendency, not a given. Like how one might correlate certain backstories with certain classes.
Still, here is how the classes might fall out (with some overlap):
Courage: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian
Wisdom: Bard, Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Paladin
Power: Sorcerer, Warlock, Barbarian, Wizard

Rogue could be any, really. Depends on motivation.
As you can see, it has less to do with specific role in the party and more to do with how the class approaches its problems.

This was what happened between OoT and Wind Waker.

Doesn't hold him down.

Also, the idea of reincarnation isn't what happens in Zelda, again because of Wind Waker, because there was no Link to reincarnate in that timeline

That's where I got the idea from, yes. It did hold him for a while, even there. (I can't recall what the official time span is, or if its declared.) But he may well get out again, even here.
And I completely agree, reincarnation is not completely canon, but that's not the intent. That said, its clear that there has been multiple 'links' - multiple heroes of time - along the timeline, so something is happening to awaken greatness.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Not being graphically inclined, I might be interested in your maps if you ever finalize them. I was just going to steal one of the maps from OoT or TP.

I'll pm you so we don't derail the general theme of the thread.

The races sound about what I figured, although I am going to keep the Gerudo 'males only born every few generations' bit, and have that child still be fated for power. The national intrigue sounds about what I was thinking too. Hrmmmm..... if the Twili are returning en mass, whats going on in the twilight realm? Are they running from something? Will it follow? Or is it just a matter of collapse? Hrmmm.... political exile? Just wanderlust?

I was planning on leaving the Twili's motivation a little mysterious. I personally see them this way: They have a new ruler, King Itza. Itza decided Midna had been too cautious in closing the original pathways between the worlds, and uses his authority/power as King of Twilight to reverse that decision. He thinks his people should get to decide where they live. Maybe if he thought he could he may try to make a power play, but I imagined the Twili as immigrating because they want to recapture something of their pre-twilight existence.

I had a similar idea, but went in a different direction. May still change that, although the idea of Link, Zelda and Gannondorf sealed in a can amuses me.
When I considered that path I had individuals 'catalyze' or 'awaken' during moments that coincided with the nature of the triforce:
Courage can awaken when a individual acts despite danger. Tends to favor martial classes.
Wisdom can awaken with breadth of knowledge and desire for learning. Tends towards studies of skill and intellect.
Power can awaken from raw ambition and force of will. Tends to favor arcane classes.

As Thomar said, the classes don't really have a claim to one triforce or another. You could justify any character of any class following Power, Wisdom, or Courage.

Perhaps. Like I said, I have no current plans to run this, it was just a thought experiment that I thought others could benefit from.

That's too bad. The only people I have to help me critique my work are my players, and we can't let them get any ideas now, can we?

[GloatingSwine]

That's where I got the idea from, yes. It did hold him for a while, even there. (I can't recall what the official time span is, or if its declared.) But he may well get out again, even here.

There aren't any official timespans given at any point in the series (also, trapping Ganon and halting time in Hyrule required literal divine intervention on a massive scale, and it still wasn't enough)

And I completely agree, reincarnation is not completely canon, but that's not the intent. That said, its clear that there has been multiple 'links' - multiple heroes of time - along the timeline, so something is happening to awaken greatness.

It's actually three different things. Ganon is a manifestation of the spirit of Demise, and in most of the main series games in which he appears it's actually the _same_ Ganon, his life extended by being in the Sacred Realm or Twilight Realm, in the last games on respective timelines he may be resurrected though.

Each respective Zelda is always a descendant of the first one, who was herself a descendant of the goddess Hylia, but there's no connection there other than bloodline.

Each Link is different and most are unconnected, the only ones who are canonically related are the Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess versions, and possibly the Wind Waker/Spirit Tracks versions. They are just always in possession of the spirit of a hero. Neither the Wind Waker or Link to the Past versions of Link can be related to the Ocarina one though (LttP follows a timeline where Link loses the final battle, WW follows the adult timeline where Link has been sent back to his childhood and warns Zelda what's going to happen and they avert the adult timeline entirely, so Link as the Hero of Time is only remembered in the timeline where he didn't exist. Everything Link does in the Child timeline is resolved in such a way that it never happened to anyone but him, including the events of Majora's Mask, which is why he persists as the spirit of the hero in TP because his heroism is never remembered in his timeline)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

It's actually three different things....

True, but let's be fair:

1) Saying that there is a Zelda timeline is like saying George Lucas always had the prequels in mind. And

2) Who cares? It's more fun to ignore the official explanation, so let's just ignore it. I always felt that Zelda works best when it's all mostly unconnected except for the most obvious connections. Example: Ocarina and Majora. Or Zelda 1 and Link's Adventure.

Next question for the thread: How do Gorons reproduce?

[Darkstand]

True, but let's be fair:

1) Saying that there is a Zelda timeline is like saying George Lucas always had the prequels in mind. And

2) Who cares? It's more fun to ignore the official explanation, so let's just ignore it. I always felt that Zelda works best when it's all mostly unconnected except for the most obvious connections. Example: Ocarina and Majora. Or Zelda 1 and Link's Adventure.

Next question for the thread: How do Gorons reproduce?

Gorons are easy enough if you assume they are not all male and non-gorons just can't tell the difference.
It's the Kokiri that have me perplexed. And yes, I've heard the idea they are actually trees. I don't buy it, especially not for my own use. I wondered at saying that Kokiri were merely 'adopted' hylian children but..... meh.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Gorons are easy enough if you assume they are not all male and non-gorons just can't tell the difference.
It's the Kokiri that have me perplexed. And yes, I've heard the idea they are actually trees. I don't buy it, especially not for my own use. I wondered at saying that Kokiri were merely 'adopted' hylian children but..... meh.

While I myself am okay with the Kokiri being treefolk, you could just say they're Halflings. Small humanoids that only appear to be children. They really only appear in Ocarina of Time, and I seem to recall there were male and females who at least showed interest in each other, in a G-rated way.

I always figured Gorons were single-sex and grew from the ground. Perhaps in heated magma chambers?

[Darkstand]

While I myself am okay with the Kokiri being treefolk, you could just say they're Halflings. Small humanoids that only appear to be children. They really only appear in Ocarina of Time, and I seem to recall there were male and females who at least showed interest in each other, in a G-rated way.

I always figured Gorons were single-sex and grew from the ground. Perhaps in heated magma chambers?

We've seen at least one baby goron, not that disproves the idea. Nor that it particularly matters, except as a baseline, as you can twist things however you want. If you were keen on pursuing that line of thinking, you could have volcanic nurseries where Goron eggs matured... though how the eggs were created is another question... bah, asexual gorons make my head hurt. There are reasons few multicellular animals are asexual.
Unless.... you discard the idea of them being even remotely organic. What if they were a race of self-perpetuating golems? But... then the baby and children gorons don't make sense. Maybe they can 'awaken' small rocks and such, but they are not all that smart for a while? Not just any rocks, the specific rocks they eat, or maybe a rarer type even than that.
Yeah, I don't have any brilliant ideas how to make that work. I'm running with the assumption I already said, that we've met females and we just can't tell.

As for Kokiri, that works, and I'll use that as a backup, but I kinda like the air of eternal innocence the Kokiri gave me. Kinda reminiscent of neverland and peter pan in that way, which is why I wondered about them 'adopting' children. But that has its own issues, namely why Link has not been 'adopted' as such, and remained Hylian. It could just be the result of him leaving the forest though. Or maybe the Deku tree knew it should let him go. Bears thinking about. But having them as childish-looking adults does not preserve that quality for me. The obvious problem being that innocence gets in the way of bearing children.

On the note of Classes and Triforce parts, it seems people think I'm forcing the issue much more than I ever planned to. Its just a tendency, not a destiny. Under that system, wisdom has more mages than courage for example, but courage still has mages, and wisdom still has fighters. Its just that the kind of people who awaken to one or the other have a certain propensity towards a certain way of thinking and problem solving. The awakening does not change who you are, but it does categorize it slightly.
Also, there well could be individuals who could have catalyzed under more than one, but that is not necessary. One or the other came up first, and then you were already past the gate, so to speak. Unless it comes up as a plot point (fufilling prophecy or something) what method you awakened by is not usually relevant, in my plan.

On a tangent, for those who don't like the reincarnation idea, just cut the histories short a few generations after the sealing war. Gannondorf exists but is sealed in a (sacred realm shaped) can for a while.

Hrmmmm... that actually gives me a idea about the origins of the Twili. Goes something like this:
Triforce is made, and rests in the Sacred Realm.
Gannondorf attempts to seize the triforce, corrupting the Sacred Realm. Is opposed by Link and Zelda.
Gannondorf is defeated and sealed in the Sacred Realm (now empty of the Triforce), along with those who supported him.
Gannondorf manages to escape the Sacred Realm, but leaves everyone else behind. Gannondorf enters the realm again, but is weakened. He is defeated and killed (he gets better).
Those left behind in the Sacred realm eventually become the Twili, shaped and changed by generations of exposure to the twisted energies of the Sacred Realm, now called Twilight.

It has echoes and callouts to the lore of the series, but is unique and satisfactorily answers a lot of the questions.
How much of this is known to the Twili and how much they share is still up in the air. And their history with Gannondorf is intriguing. It will cause trust issues if known, but many of the Twili probably bear Gannondorf some resentment for abandonment. He is basically seen as a god who betrayed them.

This still cuts short of the point where reincarnation needs to come in for those who don't want it. Actually, doing this has some advantages - having the 'death' of Gannondorf be in the semirecent past. Damn you me, now I'm torn... but I like the idea of the council of Sages forming to cope with the damages. Could just be done with Gannondorf coming round again and again, but at that point you might as well go the full nine yards, since he has come back at least once. I might cut the span of time down though, have less cycles before the game enters.

Food for thought.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

We've seen at least one baby goron, not that disproves the idea. Nor that it particularly matters, except as a baseline, as you can twist things however you want. If you were keen on pursuing that line of thinking, you could have volcanic nurseries where Goron eggs matured... though how the eggs were created is another question... bah, asexual gorons make my head hurt. There are reasons few multicellular animals are asexual.
Unless.... you discard the idea of them being even remotely organic. What if they were a race of self-perpetuating golems? But... then the baby and children gorons don't make sense. Maybe they can 'awaken' small rocks and such, but they are not all that smart for a while? Not just any rocks, the specific rocks they eat, or maybe a rarer type even than that.
Yeah, I don't have any brilliant ideas how to make that work. I'm running with the assumption I already said, that we've met females and we just can't tell.

For my rewrite/handbook I just lol'd and said that Gorons are made uncomfortable by the conversation of "Gender". They really have no concept of it, and they tend to use masculine pronouns exclusively. Even when speaking to obvious females.

As for Kokiri, that works, and I'll use that as a backup, but I kinda like the air of eternal innocence the Kokiri gave me. Kinda reminiscent of neverland and peter pan in that way, which is why I wondered about them 'adopting' children. But that has its own issues, namely why Link has not been 'adopted' as such, and remained Hylian. It could just be the result of him leaving the forest though. Or maybe the Deku tree knew it should let him go. Bears thinking about. But having them as childish-looking adults does not preserve that quality for me. The obvious problem being that innocence gets in the way of bearing children.

You could just say that Kokiri are immortal. They live forever as children (although they retain heightened capabilities that make them better than straight children could ever achieve), and when/if their population dwindles the Great Deku gives life to some plants in the forest and a group of "lost" Kokiri return to their village.

On the note of Classes and Triforce parts, it seems people think I'm forcing the issue much more than I ever planned to. Its just a tendency, not a destiny. Under that system, wisdom has more mages than courage for example, but courage still has mages, and wisdom still has fighters. Its just that the kind of people who awaken to one or the other have a certain propensity towards a certain way of thinking and problem solving. The awakening does not change who you are, but it does categorize it slightly.
Also, there well could be individuals who could have catalyzed under more than one, but that is not necessary. One or the other came up first, and then you were already past the gate, so to speak. Unless it comes up as a plot point (fufilling prophecy or something) what method you awakened by is not usually relevant, in my plan.

Personally, I think the people opposed to your idea (counting myself, didn't mean to come off strongly) are mostly opposed to the idea that there are more of one class to triforce than to any other. Wisdom is a useful (philosophically speaking) attribute to every type of person. Power as well has too many broad definitions to tie down to just "Martials".

It might be better to treat the Triforce aspects like Backgrounds in 5E: A nice bit of flavor with some mechanical benefits for playing up to it, but it is independent of every other part of your character (class, race, etc).

Hrmmmm... that actually gives me a idea about the origins of the Twili. Goes something like this:

An interesting theory. From what I know of the games it doesn't mesh with official canon, but we burned that bridge a long time ago so, choo choo all aboard!

It does sort of paint some of the Twili, like Zant, as desperately misguided religious zealots though. Although if the Twili are supposed to be pseudo-shadow-hylians, then perhaps it would make a nice parody? Hylians are always described as the Goddess' favorite, so it might be good to throw that in their smug faces.

My ultimate advice for anyone actually planning on running a LoZ DnD style adventure: Just drop the Big Three. It doesn't matter if you sealed them away, ended their reincarnation cycle (don't start!), or fired them into the sun, but for the love of all that's holy leave them OUT OF THE GAME. It's no fun if one member of the party gets to be Link and the rest get to 'help' him be all Hero of Time-y. Cuz then the Rogue will slit his throat in the night and Hyrule's doomed. And if the B3 show up as NPCs...well then there really isn't a point now is there? Link's around. He'll handle these quests. Zelda's here, just cast some good ole deus ex machina to raise all our friends. The player's fun is more important than the story, and LoZ has a BIG story with BIG characters. So kill em all!!!!!

[Darkstand]

For my rewrite/handbook I just lol'd and said that Gorons are made uncomfortable by the conversation of "Gender". They really have no concept of it, and they tend to use masculine pronouns exclusively. Even when speaking to obvious females.

Actually... that could work. Assume Goron gender is malleable and they can take either role (something that is rare but not unheard of biologically speaking, IIRC). As such, they don't understand why we insist on applying the label to everyone, and worse, why we think it can be only one.
Actually, I like this, and would totally use this. Even better if no one in the party is a goron when it comes up.... muahahahaha.

You could just say that Kokiri are immortal. They live forever as children (although they retain heightened capabilities that make them better than straight children could ever achieve), and when/if their population dwindles the Great Deku gives life to some plants in the forest and a group of "lost" Kokiri return to their village.

I figured on them being functionally immortal anyway. (They don't do much with it though... I wonder how much they really remember, having the minds of kids and all.) Deux Ex Machina as population control works, kinda clumsy but works. Or.... maybe the Kokiri and the Deku tree are related in a symbiotic relationship somehow? The Deku Tree (or trees if they ever spread) can create Kokiri within themselves.... and that gets creepy and weird fast. Gah. Pass the brain bleach please. So far I'm running with the adoption scheme until I get a better idea. One that does not involve flesh trees or plant children.

Personally, I think the people opposed to your idea (counting myself, didn't mean to come off strongly) are mostly opposed to the idea that there are more of one class to triforce than to any other. Wisdom is a useful (philosophically speaking) attribute to every type of person. Power as well has too many broad definitions to tie down to just "Martials".

It might be better to treat the Triforce aspects like Backgrounds in 5E: A nice bit of flavor with some mechanical benefits for playing up to it, but it is independent of every other part of your character (class, race, etc).

That was actually the intent. It was mostly a thematic as to how people go from 0th level to 1st level - though 'awakening' to one of the three aspects of the triforce.

An interesting theory. From what I know of the games it doesn't mesh with official canon, but we burned that bridge a long time ago so, choo choo all aboard!

It does sort of paint some of the Twili, like Zant, as desperately misguided religious zealots though. Although if the Twili are supposed to be pseudo-shadow-hylians, then perhaps it would make a nice parody? Hylians are always described as the Goddess' favorite, so it might be good to throw that in their smug faces.

Zant seemed a little unbalanced to begin with, anyway. Like a child who never grew up, just grew old. But, Gannondorf is a trickster and powerful. There will always be those that follow him, whether out of deception or lust for power.

My ultimate advice for anyone actually planning on running a LoZ DnD style adventure: Just drop the Big Three. It doesn't matter if you sealed them away, ended their reincarnation cycle (don't start!), or fired them into the sun, but for the love of all that's holy leave them OUT OF THE GAME. It's no fun if one member of the party gets to be Link and the rest get to 'help' him be all Hero of Time-y. Cuz then the Rogue will slit his throat in the night and Hyrule's doomed. And if the B3 show up as NPCs...well then there really isn't a point now is there? Link's around. He'll handle these quests. Zelda's here, just cast some good ole deus ex machina to raise all our friends. The player's fun is more important than the story, and LoZ has a BIG story with BIG characters. So kill em all!!!!!

It would make things much simpler if the triforce never existed. But I kinda like the idea of Gannondorf hanging around as a looming threat. (Villains don't steal the spotlight from the players in quite the same way, especially sealed ones.)
As stated before, I've been toying with my timeline to see if I can't get all the pieces I need without using reincarnation - namely the sages are the issue, with my explanation. I suppose even in the 'official' timelines Gannondorf/Gannon/Ganon comes back around enough times to make it work. If so, then there only needs to be one 'official' Link & Zelda - the originals. The rest can be replaced with heroes and adventurers who rose to the call.

Looking at the histories, in fact, it seems that the Triforce has been parted, joined, and broken many times. I don't think I understood just how many times it changed forms.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Okay, here's my "Points of Light" take on it.

• Most people have never left town, and there's no reason to. Everybody knows that there's one town up the road to the north, and one town up the road to the south, and it's common for young men to go looking for wives in other towns, but travel is too dangerous to do it regularly.
• The village library is full of very old books. Half of them are unreadable because they're in a language nobody knows. During cold winter days the village librarian will tell stories in the town hall about princesses and brave knights. These are obviously fiction, because there's no such thing as kings (and if there were, they'd clean up the roads and make travel safer).
• A major source of food in the town is game hunting. You can make a living catching and selling meat from the woods. Once in a while a hunter will be attacked by a really nasty beast and they'll band together to slay it.
• There are a few rich families who own plots of land that they keep cleared for farming, and they can afford to feed people to build homes on their land. Everybody in town has a garden to one degree or another. Anyone who doesn't have a home sleeps in the town hall, although some of the richer families will rent rooms in exchange for labor.
• Wandering merchants will come through town at a rate of roughly one per month. They focus on light, high-value items. They're often not human, and most people think they're really weird. They sometimes tell stories about distant lands and empires that are obviously made up.
• Once in a long while a wandering warrior, or a small band of warriors, will come through town. More often than not, they'll try to bully food and goods out of the town. However, sometimes they're really useful for slaying a nasty beast that hunters can't or don't want to deal with.
• There's a witch in town who knows some magic and will teach it in exchange for food or labor. Most people think this is a scam because most people can't get any of the magic she teaches to work. The witch is well-known because she makes medical potions that actually do something.
• There's a tinker in town who knows how to make and repair simple machinery, like the town's well. He also knows how to make gunpowder, which is really useful for clearing rocks off of the roads and farming.
• The town's blacksmith makes horseshoes. In theory he knows how to repair and maintain armor, but he's never had enough iron to do it. Iron is a hot commodity from merchants, but most of the time the blacksmith repurposes scrap metal for all his needs.
• There are several ruins just around the town, sometimes inhabited by outlaws. Some hunters and travelers claim that they've found treasure in ruins, but only far away from civilization where they haven't been looted yet.
• Once in a generation somebody in town will be born with extremely strong innate magical ability. This is usually considered an omen of an upcoming disaster that will occur before the child comes of age, and the town treats the sorcerer in a manner related to that. Most sorcerers are not welcome in their hometown, either by exile or constant quests and errands to get them out of town.

Backstory can come later. History is okay, but it's best to hint at a rich history by scattering ruins and fortifications around.