The Problem with Rogues

[shadow_archmagi]

Stealth tends towards being inherently problematic for tabletop games- Splinter Cell is a fun game, but many tabletop systems lack the level of complexity needed for a satisfying tactical stealth experience. And even if they did, there's still the issue that stealth generally involves the stealth specialist going alone, because unlike, say, dialogue or combat, stealth becomes drastically more difficult the more people you bring.

So now you've got a solo adventure using poorly fleshed out mechanics. The goal of this solo adventure is usually to make the main adventure marginally easier- Advance warning of something bad, or maybe flipping a switch to open the way forward or something. From an ingame perspective, that's a really useful resource, but from an out-of-character perspective, that's a long time for Steve to monopolize the DM and for what.

Do any systems do stealth really well? How do they solve these issues?

[Strigon]

I have never had an issue with stealth, ever.
I think you're confusing having a skill which requires creativity to make the most of, and having a skill that's useless. While it does require one to go alone, I've never seen a player "monopolize the DM" for any length of time. And if you think that stealth is just for scouting, you are sadly mistaken!
The whole point of stealth is essentially to find a way other than fighting to solve the problem. This is true for any encounter, whether it's sneaking that artifact you came in for by that Ancient Wyrm, or activating the flood trap while the enemies are patrolling the lower floor; normally, it's used in short bursts, no more than two or three minutes when they go alone.
And in combat, it has no end of uses!
Sneak attacks, slipping by the distracted bodyguards to go assassinate your target, picking off lone members, covering the area behind the enemies with caltrops and then directing their attention.

Really, I think you just need to be more creative; you've likely been misdirected by the very games you mentioned, where you have a clear goal, and the way to get to that goal is practically spelled out for you. You just have to think to yourself "what are some things I could do, if nobody could stop me?"

[Octopusapult]

Stealth tends towards being inherently problematic for tabletop games- Splinter Cell is a fun game, but many tabletop systems lack the level of complexity needed for a satisfying tactical stealth experience. And even if they did, there's still the issue that stealth generally involves the stealth specialist going alone, because unlike, say, dialogue or combat, stealth becomes drastically more difficult the more people you bring.

So now you've got a solo adventure using poorly fleshed out mechanics. The goal of this solo adventure is usually to make the main adventure marginally easier- Advance warning of something bad, or maybe flipping a switch to open the way forward or something. From an ingame perspective, that's a really useful resource, but from an out-of-character perspective, that's a long time for Steve to monopolize the DM and for what.

Do any systems do stealth really well? How do they solve these issues?

You don't have to be unseen / unheard to be stealthy. Assassins Creed is a decent example of hiding in plain sight (so to speak) by blending among the crowds.

[Haldir]

If you want your games to be more tactically based in stealth, you'll need to spend a little more time with your Rogues, that's the balance of abstraction vrs action. Tracking line of sight, light levels, cover and other factors is somewhat tedious.

[Rhunder]

I once broke into a paladin's keep to get another party member's items that were collected when he got arrested. Besides the arrested member, the rest of the party was made quite busy during my break in. If they didn't help me, I would have been caught for sure despite my own skills and abilities. I believe that whole part was amazingly done.

My DM masterfully did this part, even more impressive is the fact that it was all on the fly. I think it comes down to the DM to do this well. Regardless of all other factors, the DM can make anything fun for the players.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Dungeon World handles the stealth problem well, I think, because stealth and sneaking around, like any action (combat included) is just one action in the grand collection of stuff that makes up the session's material.

Leverage is another system that does it immensely well, because it's a system that relies on splitting up the party. There's a lot of crosscutting, as the sneaky person, the face, the hacker, etc., etc. all play their parts in the heist.

Also, Fate would do this well, too, because stealth becomes another way to gain advantages against an enemy or to achieve objectives. Stealth is the method, "creating an advantage" or "getting something done" is the end result.

[nedz]

One trick is to have the whole party be stealthy then no one gets left out. This can work even in 3.5.

[Thrawn4]

In my experience this is mostly a theoretically problem. Yes, sneaking is mostly done by a single player because it is easier and you usually do not have an entire group of rogues. But you always have a problem if one player specializes in something the rest of the group is not good at. And while it is true that sneaking is a special case due to the solo adventure elements, this is not an issue in my campaigns as I tend to make room for little solo excursions.

[Ettina]

One trick is to have the whole party be stealthy then no one gets left out. This can work even in 3.5.

Even when everyone is a stealthy character, having more people makes a stealth mission harder. The chance of one out of five guys getting a bad roll at some point is higher than the chance of one guy alone getting a bad roll, simply because more rolls are being done. And if they find one, then they'll be sounding the alarm, searching for any teammates, using stealth-dispelling abilities, etc.

This problem is at the basic nature of stealth. It even shows up in real-life stealth - that's why most stealth-based hunters in the wild are solitary creatures.

Doesn't mean you can't have a full-team of stealthy guys sneaking in. But it will be harder than a solo mission, purely because there are more people.

[Grac]

Even when everyone is a stealthy character, having more people makes a stealth mission harder. The chance of one out of five guys getting a bad roll at some point is higher than the chance of one guy alone getting a bad roll, simply because more rolls are being done. And if they find one, then they'll be sounding the alarm, searching for any teammates, using stealth-dispelling abilities, etc.

This problem is at the basic nature of stealth. It even shows up in real-life stealth - that's why most stealth-based hunters in the wild are solitary creatures.

Doesn't mean you can't have a full-team of stealthy guys sneaking in. But it will be harder than a solo mission, purely because there are more people.

Stealth doesn't only mean the skills hide and move silently. It also means disguise, bluff, sleight of hand, gather info, profession...

Stealth isn't just hiding in shadows and hoping nobody notices. Its also wearing the right uniform, knowing the right routes and procedures. A stealth mission can he done in full sight of the infiltratees, with only bluff, professions, and sleight of hand checks being used.

[Vitruviansquid]

In games that are not DnD, I've often allowed an excellent stealth check to allow a player to conceal other members of his party.

[Haldir]

Stealth doesn't only mean the skills hide and move silently. It also means disguise, bluff, sleight of hand, gather info, profession...

Stealth isn't just hiding in shadows and hoping nobody notices. Its also wearing the right uniform, knowing the right routes and procedures. A stealth mission can he done in full sight of the infiltratees, with only bluff, professions, and sleight of hand checks being used.

This, very much this. Espionage is a fundamental aspect of conflict.

Perhaps, shadow_archmagi, you might consider an even more abstracted stealth system for your game. Have your solo character generate some of the appropriate rolls for a stealth mission, have enemy generated counter rolls prepared, and decide relative levels of success. If your character does well, give the party information that will actually benefit them in the upcoming battle- "Two submachine gunners that can be surprised from a landing above" or "There's a Cleric of GoodGuy tied up in the dungeon, you think you can release him and he'll help you" or "They have to travel over this bridge, we can wait there and get them." Many of these things can even lead to legitimate mechanical benefits, such as surprise rounds and circumstance modifiers.

Or perhaps this is the exact opposite of what you were looking for.

[nedz]

Even when everyone is a stealthy character, having more people makes a stealth mission harder. The chance of one out of five guys getting a bad roll at some point is higher than the chance of one guy alone getting a bad roll, simply because more rolls are being done. And if they find one, then they'll be sounding the alarm, searching for any teammates, using stealth-dispelling abilities, etc.

This problem is at the basic nature of stealth. It even shows up in real-life stealth - that's why most stealth-based hunters in the wild are solitary creatures.

Doesn't mean you can't have a full-team of stealthy guys sneaking in. But it will be harder than a solo mission, purely because there are more people.

This is true at low level when the dice rule, but at high level this problem goes away somewhat. There are also tactics which can be used to make this work at lower levels too, but they do depend on the party and the circumstances.

[Actana]

There was a recently kickstarted RPG called Project Dark which focuses around stealth. The resolution system is card based, which sounds interesting for a stealth system. It's also setting agnostic and comes with a fantasy, cyberpunk and full blown sci-fi adventure to go with. I have no idea when it's supposed to be released though.