The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics

[Larpus]

Ah right OK thanks. Still Pretty new to the game. So would you recommend the Fighter/Life Cleric multiclass over the War Cleric? Or is it not really worth it for the Warhammer and I should just go straight up Life Cleric with a Mace?

Sorry Nooby question here but if I go down the multi-class route would I get the 2 points when I am Cleric Lv3/Fighter Lv1 or does one of the classes have to reach Lv4

This version of the game already features a lot of healing options, such as hit dice when short resting, a feat that provides healing with healing kits NWN style and the such, so I really have no idea how much more valuable is a life cleric as opposed to a war cleric.

That said, from previous experience in 3.X, the best way to prevent damage is by either killing or otherwise incapacitating enemies, don't know how much this remains true, but at a glance it doesn't look like even a dedicated healer can keep up with people getting damaged, so more often than not, all you'll do is toss a Healing Word to prevent a death while trying to un-live whatever is trying to un-live your group.

As for multiclassing, the ASIs are now class features, meaning that if you go Fighter 1/Cleric X, your first ASI will only happen at character level5, with Fighter 1/Cleric 4.

[Dudu]

Ah right OK thanks. Still Pretty new to the game. So would you recommend the Fighter/Life Cleric multiclass over the War Cleric? Or is it not really worth it for the Warhammer and I should just go straight up Life Cleric with a Mace?

Sorry Nooby question here but if I go down the multi-class route would I get the 2 points when I am Cleric Lv3/Fighter Lv1 or does one of the classes have to reach Lv4

Personally, I find both Life and War clerics overrated. Although of the two, Life seems better.

You want warhammer. I know, they are cool. No matter how much people tell me the difference in damage between a warhammer and a mace is small, a warhammer is 10x cooler. There are a couple ways of getting it. Being a dwarf is one, but you want to be Aasimar, so we have to look somewhere else.

The feat you propose is one. I don't like it too much, though, but it might work if you want to be a pure cleric. You can do something like Weapon Master, Resilient Con and +1 in Wis and Con. It's one hell of an investment, though, looks great when you have all 3, but it will suck until you get there.

Taking a level in fighter is solid good in my book. Fighter is very frontloaded and one of the best dip options in the game. Fighting Style, Second Wind and Action Surge for the second level. Like Rysto said, if you pick fighter at first level, you also get proficiency in Con saves and Heavy Armor.

Which is why I suggest picking a level in fighter, preferably your first level (the HD is bigger too, so you maximize the d10 instead of the d8). As a plus, now that you have proficiency in Martial Weapons and Heavy Armor, the domain you pick doesn't matter so much in regard of proficiency bonus. You could be a Light Cleric, or an Arcana Cleric (and apply those sweet cantrips to your melee attacks with warhammer).


On domain choices, as I said, I'm not a big fan of War and Life. War suffer similar problems with Valor bard. It's supposed to give you a martial edge, but you might be better off just multiclassing. And Valor bard is much better than War, if only because a Valor bard can actually hit pretty good. War doesn't even get a proper "2 attacks per attack action" the other martial classes get. The domain spells aren't great too. It's good for the proficiencies, but Tempest gets those too and has arguably better spells and abilities.

Life is healbot in steroids. None of the spells domains are out of cleric list, but they are all close to mandatory anyway. You heal better, that's all. Life cleric is the one cleric that does what everyone expects him to do and do it pretty well. Unlike War domain, the Life cleric knows his niche and tries to be the best at it, rather than trying to be a half assed paladin.

My advice, pick the domain that looks most fun/flavourful to you. The essential spells are all in the core cleric list anyway so don't bother too much with mechanical differences in the domains.

[8BitLogann]

This version of the game already features a lot of healing options, such as hit dice when short resting, a feat that provides healing with healing kits NWN style and the such, so I really have no idea how much more valuable is a life cleric as opposed to a war cleric.

That said, from previous experience in 3.X, the best way to prevent damage is by either killing or otherwise incapacitating enemies, don't know how much this remains true, but at a glance it doesn't look like even a dedicated healer can keep up with people getting damaged, so more often than not, all you'll do is toss a Healing Word to prevent a death while trying to un-live whatever is trying to un-live your group.

As for multiclassing, the ASIs are now class features, meaning that if you go Fighter 1/Cleric X, your first ASI will only happen at character level5, with Fighter 1/Cleric 4.

Yeah Un-living things is good.

So Now I'm thinking a Fighter/War Cleric is the route I want to take. But what fighting style would be best? I intend to use a shield so it leaves only Defense and Protection. The +1 to AC sounds quite nice but I also like the sound of imposing disadvantage however the 5ft radius isn't great.

Also if I multi-class fighter/cleric do I get Proficiency in Saving throws in Str/Con/Cha or only 2 from the first class? And if I am going down this route would it be better to bump Str over Wis?

[8BitLogann]

This version of the game already features a lot of healing options, such as hit dice when short resting, a feat that provides healing with healing kits NWN style and the such, so I really have no idea how much more valuable is a life cleric as opposed to a war cleric.

That said, from previous experience in 3.X, the best way to prevent damage is by either killing or otherwise incapacitating enemies, don't know how much this remains true, but at a glance it doesn't look like even a dedicated healer can keep up with people getting damaged, so more often than not, all you'll do is toss a Healing Word to prevent a death while trying to un-live whatever is trying to un-live your group.

As for multiclassing, the ASIs are now class features, meaning that if you go Fighter 1/Cleric X, your first ASI will only happen at character level5, with Fighter 1/Cleric 4.

Yeah Un-living things is good.

So Now I'm thinking a Fighter/War Cleric is the route I want to take. But what fighting style would be best? I intend to use a shield so it leaves only Defense and Protection. The +1 to AC sounds quite nice but I also like the sound of imposing disadvantage however the 5ft radius isn't great.

Also if I multi-class fighter/cleric do I get Proficiency in Saving throws in Str/Con/Cha or only 2 from the first class? And if I am going down this route would it be better to bump Str over Wis?

*EDIT*

Personally, I find both Life and War clerics overrated. Although of the two, Life seems better.

You want warhammer. I know, they are cool. No matter how much people tell me the difference in damage between a warhammer and a mace is small, a warhammer is 10x cooler. There are a couple ways of getting it. Being a dwarf is one, but you want to be Aasimar, so we have to look somewhere else.

The feat you propose is one. I don't like it too much, though, but it might work if you want to be a pure cleric. You can do something like Weapon Master, Resilient Con and +1 in Wis and Con. It's one hell of an investment, though, looks great when you have all 3, but it will suck until you get there.

Taking a level in fighter is solid good in my book. Fighter is very frontloaded and one of the best dip options in the game. Fighting Style, Second Wind and Action Surge for the second level. Like Rysto said, if you pick fighter at first level, you also get proficiency in Con saves and Heavy Armor.

Which is why I suggest picking a level in fighter, preferably your first level (the HD is bigger too, so you maximize the d10 instead of the d8). As a plus, now that you have proficiency in Martial Weapons and Heavy Armor, the domain you pick doesn't matter so much in regard of proficiency bonus. You could be a Light Cleric, or an Arcana Cleric (and apply those sweet cantrips to your melee attacks with warhammer).


On domain choices, as I said, I'm not a big fan of War and Life. War suffer similar problems with Valor bard. It's supposed to give you a martial edge, but you might be better off just multiclassing. And Valor bard is much better than War, if only because a Valor bard can actually hit pretty good. War doesn't even get a proper "2 attacks per attack action" the other martial classes get. The domain spells aren't great too. It's good for the proficiencies, but Tempest gets those too and has arguably better spells and abilities.

Life is healbot in steroids. None of the spells domains are out of cleric list, but they are all close to mandatory anyway. You heal better, that's all. Life cleric is the one cleric that does what everyone expects him to do and do it pretty well. Unlike War domain, the Life cleric knows his niche and tries to be the best at it, rather than trying to be a half assed paladin.

My advice, pick the domain that looks most fun/flavourful to you. The essential spells are all in the core cleric list anyway so don't bother too much with mechanical differences in the domains.

Aha thanks Dudu, so a Fighter/Cleric would get the Profs in Con/Str/Cha and all Hit Dies would be d10s? So at Fighter 1/Cleric 3 I would have 4d10 hit dice?

*EDIT - 2*
Sorry for the double post there it was supposed to just be an edit on the first not create a whole second post.

[CantigThimble]

Aha thanks Dudu, so a Fighter/Cleric would get the Profs in Con/Str/Cha and all Hit Dies would be d10s? So at Fighter 1/Cleric 3 I would have 4d10 hit dice?

No. If your first level is in fighter then you get Con/Str saves and 10+con modifier HP at level 1. When you multiclass you get the hit dice of the class you are taking levels in (d8 in this case) and you will only gain the proficiencies listed on the multiclass table instead of the full range of proficiencies you would get for taking the class as your first level.

The advantages of taking fighter first are 10+con hp at first level instead of 8+con, con/str profieicncies instead of wis/cha proficiencies and full weapon/armor profieicncies instead of just medium/simple in addition to the class features on the chart.

The con proficiency is usually better for spellcasters than wis because of concentration. The price you pay is of course that your spellcasting will be delayed one level.

[8BitLogann]

No. If your first level is in fighter then you get Con/Str saves and 10+con modifier HP at level 1. When you multiclass you get the hit dice of the class you are taking levels in (d8 in this case) and you will only gain the proficiencies listed on the multiclass table instead of the full range of proficiencies you would get for taking the class as your first level.

The advantages of taking fighter first are 10+con hp at first level instead of 8+con, con/str profieicncies instead of wis/cha proficiencies and full weapon/armor profieicncies instead of just medium/simple in addition to the class features on the chart.

The con proficiency is usually better for spellcasters than wis because of concentration. The price you pay is of course that your spellcasting will be delayed one level.

Ok I think I understand. So a Fighter 1/Cleric 3 would have 1d10 & 3d8 hit dice.

Fantastic, thank you all for your help I really appreciate it

[Reynaert]

I'm not sure this has not already been mentioned, but IMO the 'Magic Initiate' (and/or 'Ritual Caster', but that has a prerequisite) feat should be at least blue (if not sky blue) for the sole purpose of getting the Find Familiar spell.

The biggest benefit I can see is delivering touch spells. It even makes inflict wounds a viable spell (depending on the familiar's AC, and especially on if a familiar Owl gets the Flyby benefit).

[Yorrin]

I'm not sure this has not already been mentioned, but IMO the 'Magic Initiate' (and/or 'Ritual Caster', but that has a prerequisite) feat should be at least blue (if not sky blue) for the sole purpose of getting the Find Familiar spell.

The biggest benefit I can see is delivering touch spells. It even makes inflict wounds a viable spell (depending on the familiar's AC, and especially on if a familiar Owl gets the Flyby benefit).

In my experience delivering touch spells isn't too much of an issue, really. And potentially being out some gold for it if something decides to swat at your familiar is no fun either. Familiars are extremely useful for scouting purposes, but frankly I'd advise keeping them away from combat...

[Klorox]

Great guide. Bravo!

In post #7, one of the sample builds is a hill dwarf nature cleric. I had considered this character before seeing this guide as well.

Question: why restrict yourself to medium armor?

Shouldn't a dwarf be fine in heavy armor, even without the required strength?

My only debate in creating the character is whether or not I should start with a 16 or 17 CON (17 if considering resilient CON at level 12). You've really got a SAD character here, and other than WIS, CON is the only stat that really helps.

[MrStabby]

So I got to thinking about a level 1 dip for fighter to start with. I do wonder if barbarian might be better.

You lose a fighting style and get no bonus to armour.

On the other hand:

You get a couple more HP.

You get rage, looks not so hot with all the spellcasting but not bad if you want melee attacks to back up a spiritual weapon.

You get unarmoured defence. If you want a close combat cleric then you are going to want to pass con saves, so you want a high constitution anyway. This is the bit that tempts me - let's you be tough and stealthy.

[Arkhios]

So I got to thinking about a level 1 dip for fighter to start with. I do wonder if barbarian might be better.

You lose a fighting style and get no bonus to armour.

On the other hand:

You get a couple more HP.

You get rage, looks not so hot with all the spellcasting but not bad if you want melee attacks to back up a spiritual weapon.

You get unarmoured defence. If you want a close combat cleric then you are going to want to pass con saves, so you want a high constitution anyway. This is the bit that tempts me - let's you be tough and stealthy.

If you multiclass into barbarian, in hopes of getting high constitution and go without any armor you're pretty much stretched thin with point-buy. (Remember, to be able to go "naked" you'd have to have at least Constitution 18 to be somewhat equal with, e.g. scale mail (AC = 14 + ≤2 dex). To be effectively equal, you'd need at least Dex 14, and Con 18 (or Dex 16 and Con 16, Or Dex 18 and Con 14). On top of that, you need a minimum of 13 Str (Barbarian multiclass requirement) and a minimum of 13 Wis (Cleric multiclass requirement) to be able to do this combination.

So, to make it worth-while going unarmored as a barbarian/cleric, You'd want at least (on average) str 13, Dex 16, Con 16, Wis 13. Practically impossible with most of the races, and even if you could do that(including race modifiers) your end stats will be ridiculous for either of your primary roles.

With decent rolls, you can pull it off. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

[MrStabby]

If you multiclass into barbarian, in hopes of getting high constitution and go without any armor you're pretty much stretched thin with point-buy. (Remember, to be able to go "naked" you'd have to have at least Constitution 18 to be somewhat equal with, e.g. scale mail (AC = 14 + ≤2 dex). To be effectively equal, you'd need at least Dex 14, and Con 18 (or Dex 16 and Con 16, Or Dex 18 and Con 14). On top of that, you need a minimum of 13 Str (Barbarian multiclass requirement) and a minimum of 13 Wis (Cleric multiclass requirement) to be able to do this combination.

So, to make it worth-while going unarmored as a barbarian/cleric, You'd want at least (on average) str 13, Dex 16, Con 16, Wis 13. Practically impossible with most of the races, and even if you could do that(including race modifiers) your end stats will be ridiculous for either of your primary roles.

With decent rolls, you can pull it off. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it.

A reasonable point. Maybe something that non-variant human could support (with, as you say, high rolls)

[Yorrin]

Great guide. Bravo!

Thanks!

In post #7, one of the sample builds is a hill dwarf nature cleric. I had considered this character before seeing this guide as well.

Question: why restrict yourself to medium armor?

Shouldn't a dwarf be fine in heavy armor, even without the required strength?

It's really interchangeable, in the case of a Dwarf. I mainly went with Medium to reinforce the idea that pure Wis builds favor medium, in case someone wanted to go with another race. You can certainly go heavy, if you think you're likely to get your hands on some Full Plate.

My only debate in creating the character is whether or not I should start with a 16 or 17 CON (17 if considering resilient CON at level 12). You've really got a SAD character here, and other than WIS, CON is the only stat that really helps.

Yeah, that's a huge benefit of the build. And being so SAD you've got plenty of room for feats like Resilient, so I say go for it

[Citan]

So I got to thinking about a level 1 dip for fighter to start with. I do wonder if barbarian might be better.

You lose a fighting style and get no bonus to armour.

On the other hand:

You get a couple more HP.

You get rage, looks not so hot with all the spellcasting but not bad if you want melee attacks to back up a spiritual weapon.

You get unarmoured defence. If you want a close combat cleric then you are going to want to pass con saves, so you want a high constitution anyway. This is the bit that tempts me - let's you be tough and stealthy.

Hey, nice catch! DIdn't notice the subtility of Rage, always read it as "immediately end any spell". Good to know, opens a whole new world to me XD.

On Unarmored Defense, note that it makes you fairly MAD. You would want high WIS (for casting), high CON (for saves) and high DEX (for Unarmored Defense), while maintaining decent STR (multiclass requirement).
Frankly, I'd better stick with wielding medium armor + shield. You still benefit from all the other features of Rage and you don't have to juggle (struggle) with point-buy to keep all your goals.

It's not like it would be that bad anyways: even with 10 DEX, you would still have 13-15 AC while naked (which should not happen so often and is still much better than many people). ;)

[MrStabby]

Hey, nice catch! DIdn't notice the subtility of Rage, always read it as "immediately end any spell". Good to know, opens a whole new world to me XD.

On Unarmored Defense, note that it makes you fairly MAD. You would want high WIS (for casting), high CON (for saves) and high DEX (for Unarmored Defense), while maintaining decent STR (multiclass requirement).
Frankly, I'd better stick with wielding medium armor + shield. You still benefit from all the other features of Rage and you don't have to juggle (struggle) with point-buy to keep all your goals.

It's not like it would be that bad anyways: even with 10 DEX, you would still have 13-15 AC while naked (which should not happen so often and is still much better than many people). ;)

I did try a life cleric barbarian for a one shot once - not sure I built it right though so wondered if it could be better. Warding bond was the other trick. With rage I could tank damage not just from myself but also from the warded creature and then have that halved. With the life cleric ability to share healing I could get my HP back from healing the rest of the party.

Realistically I think it might have worked better with a fiend pact warlock to tank on the temp HP the class can get on kills.

[krunchyfrogg]

great guide, thanks!

[Yorrin]

great guide, thanks!

You're welcome!

[MeeposFire]

Just note that in your nature cleric example it says to combo a shield and medium armor but nature clerics have heavy armor and the example used a dwarf so they do not need str or dex. Pure wisdom and constitution which is pretty nice on the whole and you get heavy armor and a shield.

[poolio]

I would put create/destroy water a little higher up, it might not cone up that often, but when you need it you'll be really glad you have it lol after failure to put a woman who was on fire out i now almost always have it, in fact two games after that incident we were fighting a water elemental, and i asked if i could use create/destroy to kill it, he was surprised i had until after i reminded him about the poor lady turned campfire and i guess because no one ever has it prepared and i just so happened to have it ready he said sure, i expected some damage but he was just like "naw, he dead" it was a funny little moment

[CantigThimble]

I would put create/destroy water a little higher up, it might not cone up that often, but when you need it you'll be really glad you have it lol after failure to put a woman who was on fire out i now almost always have it, in fact two games after that incident we were fighting a water elemental, and i asked if i could use create/destroy to kill it, he was surprised i had until after i reminded him about the poor lady turned campfire and i guess because no one ever has it prepared and i just so happened to have it ready he said sure, i expected some damage but he was just like "naw, he dead" it was a funny little moment

Well, water elementals are significantly larger than 10 gallons so yeah, I wouldn't expect that to work.

We had a similar experience though: Salamanders deal damage to whoever hits them with a melee attack and it was ruled that this could be supressed for a round by dousing them in water. We used this to let our monk attack without immediately dying. Later we ended up leading a war effort against a bunch of salamanders and azers among other things and so we had our squad of priests use it to create ares of rain so our regular troops would have an opportunity to do some damage. (though they still weren't very effective due to the resistance to non-magical weapons)

[Yorrin]

it might not cone up that often

This is really the reason that it is rated so low. I personally love the spell, it's just not worth preparing unless you know ahead of time you're going to need it.

[DizzyWood]

SO I am looking to play an Arcana Cleric and I am planing on going V. Human for the feat most likely with point buy. I was going to take magic initiate for find familiar but I THINK the DM will let me move that to my domain list so. So that left me thinking magic initiate Druid for Shillelagh. Any advice on what else I should choose and how to spend my points?

[Yorrin]

SO I am looking to play an Arcana Cleric and I am planing on going V. Human for the feat most likely with point buy. I was going to take magic initiate for find familiar but I THINK the DM will let me move that to my domain list so. So that left me thinking magic initiate Druid for Shillelagh. Any advice on what else I should choose and how to spend my points?

Yeah, Shillelagh is a really solid choice, and obviously pairs well with Greenflame Blade/Booming Blade. And my favorite level 1 Druid spell for Magic Initiate purposes is Goodberry, since you can hand your party some 1hp potions to pick each other up when they go down.

If you want to look into, say, Wizard you can get some other utility cantrips like Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, etc. that don't care about ability score. This is especially true if you don't get Find Familiar shifted over for you.

Those two are really your best options.

[DizzyWood]

Yeah, Shillelagh is a really solid choice, and obviously pairs well with Greenflame Blade/Booming Blade. And my favorite level 1 Druid spell for Magic Initiate purposes is Goodberry, since you can hand your party some 1hp potions to pick each other up when they go down.

If you want to look into, say, Wizard you can get some other utility cantrips like Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, etc. that don't care about ability score. This is especially true if you don't get Find Familiar shifted over for you.

Those two are really your best options.

I am hoping to combine Goodberry and may familiar. This cleric will not cast much healing and be more of a researcher into magic but I thought it would be fun to cast GB at the beginning of each day. Then place them in a little pouch around my rats neck, he can run up and pop a berry in the mouth of a downed PC. Hell I might even make the rat a little nurses hat

[Galadhrim]

I just wanted to add my thanks for this guide and all the work you put in to it.

I recently made a Tempest cleric of Thor after my sorcerer was murdered by vampire spawn. He has been really fun and can do a little bit of everything from single target melee to ranged aoe and everything in between. I went variant human and started with magic initiate to get booming blade because it is so thematic with the character.

[Yorrin]

I just wanted to add my thanks for this guide and all the work you put in to it.

I recently made a Tempest cleric of Thor after my sorcerer was murdered by vampire spawn. He has been really fun and can do a little bit of everything from single target melee to ranged aoe and everything in between. I went variant human and started with magic initiate to get booming blade because it is so thematic with the character.

You're quite welcome! Sounds like you've got a really fun character

[Galadhrim]

You're quite welcome! Sounds like you've got a really fun character

I thought I might get some advice from this group for my upcoming progression. I was the off-tank for the group but our fighter, due to story line progression multi-classed to barbarian and lost his heavy armor and shield and really can't tank effectively any more. I will be the main tank for the most part in this group moving forward.

I am level 9 tempest cleric of Thor
Stats: str 16, Dex 13, con 16, int 11, wis 20, cha 11
I went V. Human and took magic initiate, sorceror for booming blade and minor illusion, along with shield.
I also have warcaster and obtained a ring of protection for +1 AC
Total AC 21 (+5 if I need to pop shield)

With the idea of main tanking I thought I would benefit from a multiclass with defensive fighting style and initially thought 2 levels of fighter for action surge.

Our game does include elemental evil so I also thought about going 2 levels of ranger (revised version) . In comparison I will get same fighting style, better spell progression and could now pick up absorb elements and good berry but would lose out on action surge and second wind. I thought this might be worth it giving me reaction AC and spell damage reduction.

What do you guys think?

[Yorrin]

With the idea of main tanking I thought I would benefit from a multiclass with defensive fighting style

Honestly I would advise against the multiclass. 21 AC is already plenty, and you'd benefit more from getting higher level Cleric spells.

[Theodoxus]

Honestly I would advise against the multiclass. 21 AC is already plenty, and you'd benefit more from getting higher level Cleric spells.

I agree. There's always Shield of Faith for another 2, if it's that important.

However, having both played and DM'd up to the low teens, it gets to a point where AC matters a lot less. You'll still get hit. Lessening the impact of combat rather than avoiding getting hit becomes more paramount. "Tanking" works at low levels, when more of the team is squishy. It doesn't really matter after about level 7. Combats will rarely be against a single target - and when they are, it's things like dragons, which will AOE nuke your party anyway and have multiattack and legendary actions that will ignore your desire to be the sole point of attack.

Work with your party mates if you want to be more like an MMO tank. Rogues hiding every round reduces the number of targets baddies can target. If you have a healbot, Sanctuary is another great way to not get hit. A high AC actually makes mooks less likely to attack you and go after easier targets, negating your ability to control the flow of combat...

There are a few taunt like abilities in the game... but a Tempest Cleric doesn't get them...

[Galadhrim]

However, having both played and DM'd up to the low teens, it gets to a point where AC matters a lot less. You'll still get hit. Lessening the impact of combat rather than avoiding getting hit becomes more paramount. "Tanking" works at low levels, when more of the team is squishy. It doesn't really matter after about level 7. Combats will rarely be against a single target - and when they are, it's things like dragons, which will AOE nuke your party anyway and have multiattack and legendary actions that will ignore your desire to be the sole point

I do agree with this and when I say tanking I mostly mean trying to create some strong battlefield control, making my teammates more difficult to get to using spirit guardians and aoe prone if necessary with destructive wave as well as trying to stick people in place with booming blade.

Absorb elements was very interesting to me in the lessening the impact of combat suggestion since I could halve spell damage as a reaction.

As you say working with party to avoid damage is the goal and that has worked well for the rogue, the mobile monk, and the tome lock but I'm having more difficulty with the fighter/ barbarian and feel like I spend an exorbitant amount of slots picking him up. I guess this is more of a play style issue but I'm not sure how to fix it because he has to be in melee range hit.