The Flash on CW

[Lizard Lord]

If they called it based on anything but "Green Arrow" it would be fine. But to call it that and give us this trash is an insult to everything the comics ever were.

And he's still not Batman. No matter how long he wishes, very very hard that he was.

Heh. That reminds me I have been watching the Walker Brothers (aka the Nostalgia Critic and his brother Rob) vlogs for Netflix's Daredevil. In one of them Rob mentioned that Daredevil is giving him the Batman he always wanted while the Flash is the Spiderman he always wanted. What are people's thoughts on that (or rather thoughts on the second part since we aren't really here to talk about Daredevil)?

[DiscipleofBob]

Maybe they'll cheat and have Killer Frost be Caitlin from another dimension, so she remains on the good guys side.

Or they could bring in one of the other Killer Frosts from the comics and have it be like an evil version of Firestorm where someone else's mind is walking around in Caitlin's body with ice powers.

[Metahuman1]

I just watched the finally.


So, yeah, who wants to bet that some freaking stupid way, this is gonna be how there gonna absolve Olly? That he had some kind of grand no kill rule the entire time once the timeline dusts settles and as a result he never killed an innocent and he's totally ok, but apart form that everything happened as depicted?

Apart from that, ow, my head hurt after watching that.

Spoiler: Spoilers.

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Who's betting Eddie ends up as the new reverse flash since we saw his body get sucked into the vortex and we know how Speedforce is about death?

Also, Jay Garrick's Helmet. "What's that?" "That's my cue to leave." I LOVE that his que to get gone was the original flashes costume piece. I would LOVE to have seen Jay Garrick show up to start kicking his butt for screwing with the timeline.



Lastly: Who wants to bet that Cisco is gonna be made a member of the Waveriders?

[dancrilis]

So, yeah, who wants to bet that some freaking stupid way, this is gonna be how there gonna absolve Olly? That he had some kind of grand no kill rule the entire time once the timeline dusts settles and as a result he never killed an innocent and he's totally ok, but apart form that everything happened as depicted?

In fairness he never killed the innocent - he merely killed people for fairly minor misdemeanors without any logical rational behind the deaths.

Apart from that, ow, my head hurt after watching that.

I know your pain.

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Particularly as I have noticed that the Eddie could have equally solved the entire problem by deciding not to have children (ignoring the fact that apparently some of his descendent did good work and saved people and he has effectively murdered them also).

[huttj509]

In fairness he never killed the innocent - he merely killed people for fairly minor misdemeanors without any logical rational behind the deaths.


I know your pain.

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Particularly as I have noticed that the Eddie could have equally solved the entire problem by deciding not to have children (ignoring the fact that apparently some of his descendent did good work and saved people and he has effectively murdered them also).

Spoiler: Not that kind of show

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Noooo, Eddie! Why didn't you just shoot your balls off?

[TheOldCrow]

I know your pain.

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Particularly as I have noticed that the Eddie could have equally solved the entire problem by deciding not to have children (ignoring the fact that apparently some of his descendent did good work and saved people and he has effectively murdered them also).

Spoiler: If it were that simple...

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I think they were going for it to be an impossibility before time would eliminate Eobard, not just an improbability. If that's all it took, Eobard should have erased himself already just by changing things enough that he is messing with Eddie's love life, because unless Eddie was going to have kids by cloning himself, then Eobard may have messed up Eddie's chance to meet great-great-great grandma at the right time.

Eddie could declare that he would never have kids, but then we'd have to hang around for some years while Eddie followed through with his threat before Eobard would get time zapped. Eddie could run out and get a vasectomy, but if Eobard knows any futuristic medicine healing techno-wizardry, that may not be final, like death is, so as long as Eddie is still around then Eobard is not an absolute impossibility.

Time travel is always kind of a mess. I'm not sure where the show is trying to go with it.

[Jayngfet]

Spoiler: If it were that simple...

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I think they were going for it to be an impossibility before time would eliminate Eobard, not just an improbability. If that's all it took, Eobard should have erased himself already just by changing things enough that he is messing with Eddie's love life, because unless Eddie was going to have kids by cloning himself, then Eobard may have messed up Eddie's chance to meet great-great-great grandma at the right time.

Eddie could declare that he would never have kids, but then we'd have to hang around for some years while Eddie followed through with his threat before Eobard would get time zapped. Eddie could run out and get a vasectomy, but if Eobard knows any futuristic medicine healing techno-wizardry, that may not be final, like death is, so as long as Eddie is still around then Eobard is not an absolute impossibility.

Time travel is always kind of a mess. I'm not sure where the show is trying to go with it.

Eddie was expected to reproduce, just clearly not with Iris. If Eobard allowed that marrige to go off it could probably have screwed him up as much as Eddie dying.

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: If it were that simple...

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I think they were going for it to be an impossibility before time would eliminate Eobard, not just an improbability.

......

Time travel is always kind of a mess. I'm not sure where the show is trying to go with it.

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It's still not an impossibility, Eddie could be cloned, Eddie could have a twin brother, Eddie could have a double from an alternate timeline (we know this one is actually true, we also know that this double is most likely actually Eobard ancestor).

Time travel is not necessary messy (I think to memory Stargate handled it ok), it is just that The Flash is operating on seemingly inconsistent rules.

[TheOldCrow]

Eddie was expected to reproduce, just clearly not with Iris. If Eobard allowed that marrige to go off it could probably have screwed him up as much as Eddie dying.

Spoiler: Eddie and Iris

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I got the feeling that one of the things that Eobard was waiting for was that "Iris West-Allen" byline. I am just saying that once Eobard started changing Eddie's life, even in minor ways, there's a good chance that Eddie won't have the same children even with getting together with the same woman he did in the original timeline.

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It's still not an impossibility, Eddie could be cloned, Eddie could have a twin brother, Eddie could have a double from an alternate timeline (we know this one is actually true, we also know that this double is most likely actually Eobard ancestor).

Time travel is not necessary messy (I think to memory Stargate handled it ok), it is just that The Flash is operating on seemingly inconsistent rules.

Spoiler: time

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I think Stargate generally treated people from different timelines as individuals, for the most part, rather than easy substitutes for the real thing. I am not sure what The Flash is going for, yet. Is it one timeline, that gets rewritten? Or is it multiple timelines, and Flash is just abandoning his friends in one to find a more palatable substitute (or, rather, his original friends have already been wiped out by a tsunami, so what the heck why not)? Future Flash hinted that it is one timeline, because he seemed to have continuity with present Flash by knowing what was going on, but then how did Eobard change the past? The Flash time travel does seem an inconsistent mess to me.

[Metahuman1]

In fairness he never killed the innocent - he merely killed people for fairly minor misdemeanors without any logical rational behind the deaths.


I know your pain.

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Particularly as I have noticed that the Eddie could have equally solved the entire problem by deciding not to have children (ignoring the fact that apparently some of his descendent did good work and saved people and he has effectively murdered them also).

Sure he did. There is no way your telling me every person working security for every bad guy was in and of themselves a monster, or not just some guy who worked security for a living. That all of them knew and condoned ALL of there bosses behavior.

Spoiler: Hence...

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my position that wow, that got into some REALLY bad implications. I seem to be having a pattern of that the last several days or so in the media I consume as I'm about to drop a web comic I'd been following since near launch over sme really bad implications in the last score or so of daily updates.

[dancrilis]

Sure he did. There is no way your telling me every person working security for every bad guy was in and of themselves a monster, or not just some guy who worked security for a living. That all of them knew and condoned ALL of there bosses behavior.

The way that they are shown is effectively as faceless minions there to intact the evil schemes of there masters (i.e willing to do anything they are asked without remorse, compassion or regret).

[Metahuman1]

Not good enough. Maybe if he hadn't killed them I'd be more forgiving of that. Or if this was a different genera. But it's not.

[LaZodiac]

Concerning Arrow, there is a reason why, when The Flash said "I want to be more like Arrow", the clearest voice of reason on the show say "Arrow's an *******. Don't be him."

Suffice to say Metahuman is right on this one.

[Metahuman1]

*Raises fist for solidarity fist bump with Lazodiac.*

[Hopeless]

Concerning Arrow, there is a reason why, when The Flash said "I want to be more like Arrow", the clearest voice of reason on the show say "Arrow's an *******. Don't be him."

Suffice to say Metahuman is right on this one.

I suspect the Reverse Flash would say,"Hey! Thats my job!!"

Meanwhile Eddie is rescued and healed by Rip aka Rory telling him,"Been there, done that! In case you haven't noticed your descendant is also your namesake kick his a$$!"

[Jayngfet]

Not good enough. Maybe if he hadn't killed them I'd be more forgiving of that. Or if this was a different genera. But it's not.

Agreed. Especially at the point where the entire plan of the villain was "Oliver Queen murders everyone, but he only carries thirty arrows. So I'll hire 31 henchmen." and it works.

[Calemyr]

Okay, so I was an idiot and mistook the previous episode for the finale. Seriously, as amusing as it would have been to just shoot RF in the back and let him die like a sissy, they were never going to do that. Ah well, I still think that would have been fun.

About the actual finale, I'm really hoping that the outcome is a timeline where Harrison Wells as his original good guy self. Tom Cavanagh is too much fun to get rid of, and if Cisco keeps his extratemporal memory it'd be very interesting to see the conflict that would arise as those memories come back. Is Wells still Thawne? How can he trust his mentor when memories of Wells killing him haunt his dreams?

Much as I dislike the concept of suicide, I have to say Eddie went out like a badass. He couldn't shoot the RF, after all. Best case RF simply dodges and mocks him, worst case he pulls someone else (Barry, Joe, Iris) into the line of fire so that Eddie is the one that kills them (since RF is in "**** it, kill 'em all" mode). Eddie had one second to make an irrevocable change to the timeline, and he'd probably been thinking about it since his talk with Stein. Still, it takes serious guts to do something like that, and serious brains to resist the urge to get RF's attention beforehand. There's only one thing that really bothers me about this: given how much emotional abuse he'd taken from RF during his abduction, his actions resemble suicide as much or more than than it does heroic sacrifice. And, as I said, I dislike the concept of suicide. "Change is the essence of breath" and all that.

By the way, is it official that there will be a second season of the Flash? Or is it all getting condensed into Legends of Tomorrow? This rupture would certainly work as the focal point of that, given the trailer for the show.

[Friv]

Concerning Arrow, there is a reason why, when The Flash said "I want to be more like Arrow", the clearest voice of reason on the show say "Arrow's an *******. Don't be him."

Hell, Oliver said that.

It is worth remembering that, theoretically, Oliver hasn't actually killed very many people, as ludicrous as that sounds. In the first season, they kept dropping comments about him landing tons of guards and goons in the hospital, while not ; apparently, taking an arrow in the chest, flipping over a catwalk, and falling twenty feet onto concrete is nonlethal in the Arrowverse.

[comicshorse]

Hell, Oliver said that.

It is worth remembering that, theoretically, Oliver hasn't actually killed very many people, as ludicrous as that sounds. In the first season, they kept dropping comments about him landing tons of guards and goons in the hospital, while not ; apparently, taking an arrow in the chest, flipping over a catwalk, and falling twenty feet onto concrete is nonlethal in the Arrowverse.

There's definitely one episode ('Betrayal' maybe ?) where Detective Lance shows someone a body in the morgue that the Arrow has killed and points out they've had another 30 like this (which considering the number of people he shot is actually still applying comic book physics and biology to the situation)

[Sliver]

I still feel his arrows have a more realistic death count than half of batman's "non-lethal" takedowns.

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[comicshorse]

On the subject

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=50300