Is Roy's dad able to get into the LG heaven?

[UristMcRandom]

[...] My new theory: because of what it implies about Eugene. He's not going to get into Celestia.

I think we are technically past the point where that would be a realistic possibility.

[JavaScribe]

I think we are technically past the point where that would be a realistic possibility.

Well, what with Celestia being lawful and all, maybe they can use some technicality on his Oath. I presume this normally wouldn't be a problem, but maybe if someone with no blood ties to Eugene kills Xykon, it can be used against him.

[hamishspence]

I think we are technically past the point where that would be a realistic possibility.

That statement was in response to "he can go to Hell, for all I care."

So, it's not realistic for Eugene to get into the Nine Hells of Baator.

Might be realistic for him to get a second review though - given the number of acts he's committed while deceased.

[factotum]

Well, yes; I wouldn't say that anything he's done post-mortem has been actively Evil. Chaotic, possibly, depending on definitions.

[Ben Kenobi]

Two arguments.

1 - the blood oath is a sign that Eugene is lawful. The whole thing with the Deva is simply holding Eugene up to the promises that he made in life.

Eugene was willing to sacrifice his eternal reward in Celestia in order to take down Zykon. Why? Because he realized that the fate of the world held in the balance. Eugene also believed that his life and not only that - his afterlife was something he was willing to sacrifice in order to defeat Zykon.

Lawful is concerned about the means to an end - that using evil means for good purposes would strike as chaotic - but, again... it's an Oath. A chaotic person would not sign a binding oath, as it would not have any meaning to them. Nor would they risk their life in order to fulfill their oath.

Eugene did all that. Yes, Eugene eventually gave up, decided to start a family and retire. That is not something that will keep him out of celestia. Nor will it even enter the picture to decide that he should not enter. When the call was there - Eugene was there and he did fight the good fight.

Had he died fulfilling his oath? and the deva actually mentioned that... he would have gotten in because there is nothing more he could have done with his time on earth. He is not required to be successful - only to try and to make his effort whatever it may be.

Secondly, what has Eugene done? He dodged a summons, tied up a Deva, to offer advice to Roy, and to the Sapphire Guild. He impersonated a being of light (again, chaotic means to fulfill a good end). He did not do it to make the Sapphire Guild worse, and I'd be hard pressed to say that his actions hindered things. He did a lot of good by intervening where he did.

Again, when Roy challenged him, Eugene was willing to leave his family. People say he was selfish, but again - his own son made that request. Would it be more selfish to insist that your family spend time with you?

Thirdly, intercepting the summons meant to inform Roy? Chaotic means to fulfill a good end. Eugene was willing to bend the rules to ensure that Varsuvius would get the chance to inform Roy, and to prevent Roy from abandoning Varsuvius. Yes - he approved of what she did, because Eugene knows what is at stake. What good does it do to save the lives of the dragons if the world itself is unmade? He was not the one who made that decision. Varsuvius was. Now - permitting Roy to be informed has negative consequences for the Party as a whole. Believing, "yes, you did something that was wrong in pursuit of good ends and you deserve to be punished for it." is one thing.

Eugene knows that the Elf is going to be necessary in order to take down Zykon. If he can do something to prevent Roy from making a mistake that would doom the party and their ultimate quest? Eugene is going to do that.

It strikes me that Eugene is mostly neutral good - he seems willing to do whatever it takes in pursuit of his primary goal, regardless as to what the rules actually say he should do. It seems to me that the lawfulness would not be compromised by what he's done in the afterlife, because of the Blood Oath. So it's sort of ironic to me that the man that was willing to sacrifice lawfulness for good would be asked to keep his promises.

I don't see Eugene as primarily motivated by selfishness either. Yes, he did give Roy the quest - but look at it from his point of view. Eugene values effectiveness. In the end, questing against Zykon would have fulfilled his oath, but.. it wouldn't have succeeded. I think Eugene knew this damn well. So - passing the oath onto his son makes sense because then he might actually defeat Zykon. Eugene is not willing to sacrifice effectiveness in order to have a better life. I get the sense that Eugene doesn't like himself very much.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Eugene was willing to sacrifice his eternal reward in Celestia in order to take down Zykon. Why? Because he realized that the fate of the world held in the balance. Eugene also believed that his life and not only that - his afterlife was something he was willing to sacrifice in order to defeat Zykon.

Nothing of the sort. He got the oath because he was personally peeved at some old guy who murdered his mentor and he was too drunk to read the card and think about it. His interview with the deva showed he didn't think the oath actually mattered. I'm really having trouble seeing how Eugene ever qualified as Lawful, since we generally see him doing Neutral or Chaotic things (arguably, he also is more Neutral than Good).

Also: "It's XYKON, meatbag!"

[hamishspence]

He got the oath because he was personally peeved at some old guy who murdered his mentor and he was too drunk to read the card and think about it. His interview with the deva showed he didn't think the oath actually mattered.

Yup - he might have focused on hunting Xykon for a while - but then he "gave it up to pursue other interests"

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0495.html

[Peelee]

A bit late to the party, but...

The Snarl has already started killing people. Even if everyone else in 945 got out alive, at least one of the Empire of Sweat soldiers seems to have been impaled by a tendril.

It does when the Snarl is involved. That thing one-shots gods.

More importantly, it does when its a nameless character.

And especially when that nameless character is some random soldier. I would rate SPG's chances of survival as more than zero.

I'll believe it when I see the Xs in his eyes. Or its confirmed the Snarl is up and killing people. I still don't believe we know exactly what's going on with that thing.