Help getting my murderhobo party to roleplay.

[icefractal]

I feel like 40k platinum is actually insufficient to hire even a single 60th level bounty hunter (setting aside how bizarre the existence of said bounty hunter is), unless they were basically willing to do it for free and just accepted the platinum as a token payment.

I mean - 60th level. With anything like a normal level distribution, that's "ruling the world" level power - actually, it passed that a while ago. The amount of money you can get if you want is "all of it". If you really extend things into epic levels that far, it's going to take something on a whole different order than cash to have this person interested.

Of course, you can just turn everything to 11, and have a world where the small-town guards are like 10th level, and the king is well into epic. IMO, that seems kind of pointless; it's just sticking more numbers on things and making the stats more unwieldy. And if you're running a 20th level game ... but bounty hunters are 60th level and show up in groups ... then you might as well just run like a 1st-3rd level game instead, because that's the actual relevance of the PCs compared to the setting. But hey, different strokes.


Oh, and I absolutely recommend not doing this (sending any kind of ridiculously buff foes after the PCs to "show them the error of their ways"). It will likely result in one or more of:
* Arguments / hurt feelings
* Adversarial relationship / arms race
* Campaign meltdown

Talking to the players out of game really seems like the best option here.

[Sartharina]

Can't resolve OOC problems with IC solutions
Can't resolve OOC problems with IC solutions
Can't resolve OOC problems with IC solutions

This isn't an OOC issue, though. It's a metagame issue. Metagame and in-game solutions are fine for metagame problems.

OOC issues are showing up late/playing on cell phones/talking off topic/distracting players.

[VeliciaL]

I still think your best course of action is sitting down and having a talk with them about what you'd like out of the next campaign. Make sure your expectations are pretty well known BEFORE everyone rolls up a character for the game.

In addition, be patient. Getting into roleplay can be pretty awkward for people who aren't really used to it, and they may need a little handholding and guidance to get into it.

I actually wrote a group in a 3rd party setting that's a cabal of witches and spiritualists that take on missions of revenge, for whatever the target can pay and sometimes for free if the story is moving enough - designed explicitly to give players a hard time for being douchebags to commoners. They generally antagonize the target with curses, hauntings, thefts and general paranoia, though killing isn't entirely out of the question if they feel the target is awful enough, and their one rule is never to harm a child in the course of the revenge.

This is actually pretty cool. I'm going to have to remember this.

[Zweisteine]

Confront them with problems violence can't solve. Have roleplaying situations.

A great way to do this is to not throw the adventure at them. Make a town (or better yet, a city), and flesh out some NPCs (this could take a good long time), and drop them in it. This might work best using a city that's had a book published for it, though those are fairly rare in 3.5e (I might recommend something in Eberron, though not if you've never used the setting before; it's rather complex). Make a plot with intrigue.

A group of assassins and thieves has been gaining power in the city. You could drake anything the players do lead to one plot: identify eliminate the assassins' leader.

Spoiler: Lots of ideas for that adventure

Show

Maybe start with a more standard adventure: the party is guarding caravan headed to the city, and fights some bandits on the way.
Hooks:

• Drunk guy in the bar is drunk because his family was killed and his possesions stolen: he wants revenge, and says he can get the PCs a good reward.
• The Lord of the city fears he may become a target, so he hires the PCs to do what the city guard couldn't do.
• The high preist of Pelor fears for the safety of the people...
• And the direct route: The players are targeted directly. Perhaps they are attacked in the night, perhaps their hard-earned loot is stolen, whichever would work best to draw the group in.

Things to prevent murderhoboing:

• Killing the thieves and assassins is illegal, except in self-defense. If the assassins' hideout is found with ll the occupants dead, the players will be in trouble with the law. Then they will either get no reward (if there is no proof), or they will be legally punished (if there is, or if there are witnesses).
• Leave paths that can only be opened through subtelty, such as a secret door that only the assassins know about.
• Have a former thief team up with the party, but he doesn't want them to kill his former friends.
• Most importantly: the leader of the criminals the players are after is an important noble. You can't just charge in and kill him, because he has guards who aren't evil, as well as various servants and subordinate nobles. They have to find evidence against him, and confront him with it in public.

Other ideas include various classics:
1. When attacking the goblin clan, there are goblin children, and various noncombatants, who all beg for their lives; make the players realize that what they are doing is wrong. (This works especially well if there is a paladin PC who can fall for killing them (but don't forget to warn him, maybe by telling him he feels a momentary break in his power when he kills the first one or two).)
2. Players are hired to kill someone who isn't actual an enemy, and have to figure out what's going on.


Of course none of this will work if the players are consciously playing evil characters.


EDIT:

... why do you even have player characters when you have heroes greater than gods in every single city to solve all the problems?

Maybe all the NPCs are Urban Souls of their cities, who are unwilling to do anything besides protect their citizens from each other. Or they're just lazy. Or, more likely, they're busy dealing with bigger threats, like the villains greater than gods that are also in every city.

[Chd]

I feel like 40k platinum is actually insufficient to hire even a single 60th level bounty hunter (setting aside how bizarre the existence of said bounty hunter is), unless they were basically willing to do it for free and just accepted the platinum as a token payment.

I mean - 60th level. With anything like a normal level distribution, that's "ruling the world" level power - actually, it passed that a while ago. The amount of money you can get if you want is "all of it". If you really extend things into epic levels that far, it's going to take something on a whole different order than cash to have this person interested.

Of course, you can just turn everything to 11, and have a world where the small-town guards are like 10th level, and the king is well into epic. IMO, that seems kind of pointless; it's just sticking more numbers on things and making the stats more unwieldy. And if you're running a 20th level game ... but bounty hunters are 60th level and show up in groups ... then you might as well just run like a 1st-3rd level game instead, because that's the actual relevance of the PCs compared to the setting. But hey, different strokes.


Oh, and I absolutely recommend not doing this (sending any kind of ridiculously buff foes after the PCs to "show them the error of their ways"). It will likely result in one or more of:
* Arguments / hurt feelings
* Adversarial relationship / arms race
* Campaign meltdown

Talking to the players out of game really seems like the best option here.

Let me be clear. I have talked to the players OOC, and their exact words are: "We are untouchable! We've killed kings, leveled entire districts, and have all decided to turn renegade." "The characters are not ready to retire, we wish to see their rise and fall to the end!"

I'm hastening their end, but I think I now have a more fitting end; I will bring back 3 characters from a previous campaign, the Grandmaster of the Bright Order (cleric 20/paladin 20), the Magister Lord of Haraway (Mage 20/ Artificer 20) and the CEO of the Underground Syndicate (Rogue 20/Fighter 20) from a previous campaign in the world.

These are all characters from our 1st campaign, so having them come to deal with the problem party seems legitimate. The Grand Master does not want to throw away the lives of his men, so he's called in his old friends to come out of retirement once more for old times sake. The Lord of Haraway is still fuming that his automated industrial district was destroyed when they sabotaged the Manaflux Power Plant, and the Underground Syndicate were bankrolling the Endevor, and using it's ports to launder/fence their ill-gotten loot.

The campaign has run it's course. The next gm in our group has already taken me aside, and said that the world will continue, and that the party's death will be added as canon. I may sound like a ****, but the idea is there: All actions have consequences.

[veti]

Remember that RPGing is a collaborative endeavour. They are shaping their own environment, just as you are.

With that in mind: give them a world where muderhoboing is the expected norm for adventurers. And everyone treats them appropriately.

This means: they never get to meet anyone remotely powerful without a ridiculous number of heavily armed guards in close attendance at all times. (And even then they're probably not allowed within physical touching distance, and will be required to leave their weapons and/or magical equipment outside.) Town guards and similar authorities have well-practised and established drills and resources for dealing with outbreaks of high-level or magically-augmented unrest, capable of dealing with malcontents of significantly higher level than your rabble. Quest-givers will assume they'll rat on their obligations, and use magical or other means as necessary to coerce obedience. Murder of random peasants will, of course, be possible, but unrewarding, and will attract attention from people much higher level than the party. After a few sessions of murderhoboing their way through the countryside, they should feel permanently threatened and on the run from forces they can't hope to confront, and be desperately looking for someone to team up with.

And since that "someone" will know not to trust them, their terms for protection will be - steep.

[Mr Beer]

Let me be clear. I have talked to the players OOC, and their exact words are: "We are untouchable! We've killed kings, leveled entire districts, and have all decided to turn renegade." "The characters are not ready to retire, we wish to see their rise and fall to the end!"

I'm hastening their end, but I think I now have a more fitting end; I will bring back 3 characters from a previous campaign, the Grandmaster of the Bright Order (cleric 20/paladin 20), the Magister Lord of Haraway (Mage 20/ Artificer 20) and the CEO of the Underground Syndicate (Rogue 20/Fighter 20) from a previous campaign in the world.

The bounty hunter idea is still silly though, it's just 'rocks fall!' with more dice. The plot you outlined with powerful canonical enemies deciding to wipe out these dangerous murderhobos is completely reasonable.

[Jayabalard]

This isn't an OOC issue, though. It's a metagame issue. Metagame and in-game solutions are fine for metagame problems.

OOC issues are showing up late/playing on cell phones/talking off topic/distracting players.

That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

The issue is primarily with the in character actions of the characters; in character solutions seem entirely in line with dealing with those.

[Chd]

The bounty hunter idea is still silly though, it's just 'rocks fall!' with more dice. The plot you outlined with powerful canonical enemies deciding to wipe out these dangerous murderhobos is completely reasonable.

True, and that these characters are former PC's is the icing on the cake.