Mass Effect: General thread of Awesomeness

[Psyren]

Unless they plan on a reboot/retcon, or doing prequels forever, more divergent endings are probably not going to happen. Indeed, I expect a Deus Ex 2-style mix of Destroy, Control and Synthesis that will please no one, but still be better than the alternative.

But we'll be able to make some educated guesses once we see the Mass Effect version of the Keep and what will be recorded.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Unless they plan on a reboot/retcon, or doing prequels forever, more divergent endings are probably not going to happen. Indeed, I expect a Deus Ex 2-style mix of Destroy, Control and Synthesis that will please no one, but still be better than the alternative.

But we'll be able to make some educated guesses once we see the Mass Effect version of the Keep and what will be recorded.

Actually, speaking of ME4, I happened across a very possibly fake leak that does pretty much everything I'd expect ME4 to have to do storywise (i.e. displace itself to an entirely different galaxy, literally in this case rather than by existing in the distant future as my mad ramblings once supposed.)

[LibraryOgre]

So, I only got it after the Extended cut came out.

What does the non-extended version look like?

[Psyren]

DAI in spaaaaaaace!

Sounds interesting, and it's pretty much what I predicted as well, minus being a different galaxy as opposed to the off-Relay unexplored corners of ours.

So, I only got it after the Extended cut came out.

What does the non-extended version look like?

- During the beam run, you have no idea what happened to the squadmates you brought with you - there is no Normandy pickup.
- No epilogue slides or narration, it just cuts straight from the Normandy crash to the Stargazer.
- No opportunities to ask the Catalyst to elaborate on what the various options mean.
- No Refusal option.
- No shot on the Normandy of Hackett ordering the fleet to fall back and {squadmate} telling Joker that the Normandy need to leave the system.
- Probably something else I'm forgetting.

[Anteros]

Perhaps I haven't been clear. I like these games. They're probably my favorite game series of all time. I think they tell a compelling story, and are excellent (barring the very end). I just don't think your decisions you make in the game matter nearly as much as they advertise. I understand that there are software, hardware, and financial limitations that prevent them from writing entirely different storylines for each decision you make, but it doesn't change the fact that 95% of your decisions are ultimately meaningless.

Kill the Rachni? Oh look, they survive anyway. The only difference is if Grunt lives through the mission, and he doesn't even show up for the rest of the game.
Give the station to Cerberus? No change outside of some war assets.
Anderson or Udina? No difference at all.
Save the council? No difference except a different skin on council members telling you the exact same things.

There are a few impactful decisions, such as with Wrex, or the genophage cure data, but they're by far the exception rather than the rule. I wish there were more like that. Mostly they just reskin the same character if they're dead and the new guy spouts almost exactly the same dialogue, and follow the exact same plot. Then at the end of the series it's ultimately all meaningless because they just give you a choice of which shiny button you want to push instead of going the organic route and making it a result of your decisions thus far.

[Psyren]

Kill the Rachni? Oh look, they survive anyway.

And yet your decision of whether or not to save them the second time has fundamentally different context under each path, and which one has better results will be different as well.

The only difference is if Grunt lives through the mission, and he doesn't even show up for the rest of the game.

Incorrect - whether he lives or not depends on his loyalty, not whether you save the Queen. If he is loyal, he will survive no matter which one you choose.

Give the station to Cerberus? No change outside of some war assets.

Incorrect again - Giving the station to Cerberus makes low-EMS Control possible.

Anderson or Udina? No difference at all.

Save the council? No difference except a different skin on council members telling you the exact same things.

Exactly how different were the career politicians supposed to be? (Note that attitude-wise they are still the opposite of their predecessors, even if they ultimately deny ordering aid for Earth.) And Anderson made it clear he didn't want the job even in ME1, so giving it up by the end of ME2 is not so surprising.

There are a few impactful decisions, such as with Wrex, or the genophage cure data, but they're by far the exception rather than the rule. I wish there were more like that.

Ah, so you admit that "never actually change anything" and "nothing changes" were useless hyperbole. Glad we can agree.

[Kish]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Avilan the Grey]

And yet your decision of whether or not to save them the second time has fundamentally different context under each path, and which one has better results will be different as well.

Not to mention that no, they did not survive.
Or is cloning a dinosaur the same thing as they having survived until now on their own? (Well they DID, but the sparrows outside are not the Raptor you are looking for.)

[tonberrian]

Okay, I think I'm managing cover-shooting a bit better now. Finished Zaeed's and Kasumi's loyalty missions, working on the last bit of Overlord. Then I'll finish Firewalker and the N7 three assignment miniquest, pick up Grunt, then go hit Horizon.

[Derthric]

Actually, speaking of ME4, I happened across a very possibly fake leak that does pretty much everything I'd expect ME4 to have to do storywise (i.e. displace itself to an entirely different galaxy, literally in this case rather than by existing in the distant future as my mad ramblings once supposed.)

I am curious about this leak, it sounds like an awesome game on paper. But I do have a bit of a pit in my stomach wondering if the context means that familiar aliens won't be returning. Is it still Mass Effect without turians, krogans etc, the Citadel, or Mass Relays(New Galaxy and all that). Now that's just speculation on my part. As is assuming that that leak is true at all.

[Psyren]

Okay, I think I'm managing cover-shooting a bit better now. Finished Zaeed's and Kasumi's loyalty missions, working on the last bit of Overlord. Then I'll finish Firewalker and the N7 three assignment miniquest, pick up Grunt, then go hit Horizon.

I usually do Overlord after the ending. It allows me to bring Legion along (which gets a bit of funny dialogue from Archer) and I like Shepard to be on better terms with the Alliance (read: post-Arrival) and worse terms with TIM, before he calls in a favor to get David transferred to Grissom.

I am curious about this leak, it sounds like an awesome game on paper. But I do have a bit of a pit in my stomach wondering if the context means that familiar aliens won't be returning. Is it still Mass Effect without turians, krogans etc, the Citadel, or Mass Relays(New Galaxy and all that). Now that's just speculation on my part. As is assuming that that leak is true at all.

Even putting aside narrative consequences, from a purely pragmatic/developmental standpoint I don't see them throwing all those art and sound assets out the window. So I expect at least some races to come back, and I think Turians will be at the top of that list (next to humans, of course.)

Having said that I don't think we'll see every familiar ME race this time around. Krogans and Quarians in particular have uncertain destinies; any attempt to include them will likely have to address ME3's choices in some way, and if I can hazard a guess that's not something they want to do (yet.) There's a good chance they won't make it to ME4, especially the latter.

[Anteros]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Derthric]

Even putting aside narrative consequences, from a purely pragmatic/developmental standpoint I don't see them throwing all those art and sound assets out the window. So I expect at least some races to come back, and I think Turians will be at the top of that list (next to humans, of course.)

Having said that I don't think we'll see every familiar ME race this time around. Krogans and Quarians in particular have uncertain destinies; any attempt to include them will likely have to address ME3's choices in some way, and if I can hazard a guess that's not something they want to do (yet.) There's a good chance they won't make it to ME4, especially the latter.

New engine, new assets. Though I hope you are right. Just something about the line "new home for humanity" just fills me with dread. Just seems a little too specific. But like I said its mostly paranoia. And of course it all be horse hockey anyway.

Also I hope the MP is like DAI and not tied into the main game like it was in ME3. Let it stand on it's own merits and people will play it.

[Zevox]

Also I hope the MP is like DAI and not tied into the main game like it was in ME3. Let it stand on it's own merits and people will play it.

It's a little ironic to put it like that, considering that ME3's multiplayer stands on its own merits a lot more so than DA:I's.

[Kish]

{{Scrubbed}}

From a practical perspective of someone who currently has to deal with them? Yes, it's much the same.

Except for the minor detail of the non-cloned ones being recruitable allies and the cloned ones being Reaper pawns who will stab you in the back if you turn your back to them.

It's a little ironic to put it like that, considering that ME3's multiplayer stands on its own merits a lot more so than DA:I's.

DA:I's multiplayer has the one merit I, personally, care about for either of the games under discussion: I didn't have to ever acknowledge that it existed. ME3 did not; the multiplayer was shoved in my face every time I looked at my war assets.

[Psyren]

New engine, new assets.

Actually no - Mass Effect and Dragon Age use different engines, and many of the animations are shared even so, especially in conversations. And DAI is no exception.

For example, look at Cullen's "run of shame" animation after the Wicked Grace game - that same animation has been in all three Mass Effects and both of the previous Dragon Age games.

Also I hope the MP is like DAI and not tied into the main game like it was in ME3. Let it stand on it's own merits and people will play it.

Given the success of ME3's MP, my guess is that people will play it regardless.

{{Scrubbed}}

DA:I's multiplayer has the one merit I, personally, care about for either of the games under discussion: I didn't have to ever acknowledge that it existed. ME3 did not; the multiplayer was shoved in my face every time I looked at my war assets.

Honestly I agree with this, the "Readiness" did not have to be so visible during the single-player campaign. I would have put that % (along with the giant red "WHY DO YOU HATE MULTIPLAYER" map) on another screen and just showed the EMS number during the story campaign.

[Landis963]

It's a little ironic to put it like that, considering that ME3's multiplayer stands on its own merits a lot more so than DA:I's.

Obviously, we need a best-of-both-worlds approach. Don't tie it into the main game, sure, but for the love of pete have it good enough to stand on its own.

[Psyren]

Before we even begin to talk about multiplayer we need to hope the combat system is up to snuff. They can't have it stay chest-high-wall cover-based - a restrictive mechanic - AND encourage freedom and exploration; those two just don't gel. You need to be able to get into a firefight anywhere, and not necessarily know a firefight is coming via telltale chest-high-walls dotting the landscape. It needs to be more like ME1, where Geth could drop on you or Rachni could erupt from the ground nearly anywhere you happened to wander. (Yeah okay, most of those were in fact scripted, but it felt sudden, and the order the geth dropped in and their actions once they arrived on the battlefield allowed them total freedom in their attack.)

My thought is that they will let you bring your own cover along, to keep the firefights deadly and tactical. Perhaps engineers can put up energy walls (similar to the ones Cerberus uses, but mobile and temporary) while a biotic class can throw up a bubble to deflect shots coming in from any angle. Soldiers will either have mobile cover or just be able to wear reinforced armor that lets them operate out in the open more easily than other classes while relying on the terrain.

The shift for ME will also be less jarring - people were shocked when DAI dropped healing, but ME players are used to not having a "healer" and relying on consumables instead. In ME, you can also fight while inside your vehicle, which encourages exploration even more; in Dragon Age you can't fight on horseback, and have to dismount every time you come across baddies.

[Rodin]

Deployable chest-high walls would be even more immersion-breaking than the ones we've already got. I really hope they move away from chest-high walls entirely, because the entire concept was starting to get tiresome. Heck, it was a tired concept back when Mass Effect 2 came out. They did a particularly good implementation of it, mind you. The only game that I think has better is Uncharted 2. I could still happily never see another chest-high wall, and it'd be great if they could come up with a way to make a tactical third-person shooter that didn't rely on them.

[Stuebi]

On the subject of Rachni in ME3:

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The cloned queen stabbing you in the back caught me off-guard. And that was back in the day were you needed around 6-8 thousand war assets to get some of the endings. I remember being pretty angry at the time because I felt that the betrayal was unfair in the sense that you couldnt see it coming. After replaying however, I realized that they actually telegraph it pretty hard and that I was simply missing quite a few signs. The scene also becomes a LOT more creepy if you killed the Rachni in ME1. The cloned queen still gives me the chills.

And about Udina and Anderson. That was one of the things that I found was pretty meaningless in hindsight.

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On one hand it's a bit of a missed opportunity, imho. They could've done some interesting stuff with it. Anderson is pretty obviously not a politician. So showing off some struggles, or maybe even see him fail would've been interesting. It could've been a nice curveball for people who just picked Anderson because they liked him (like me ;P ) without considering who has the actual skills for the job.

Another thing is Udina's Betrayal. It was a nice twist, but it kinda makes your choice in ME1 even less important. I ahve this theory that there were some actual impacts planned for this (So they let you choose which one you wanted), but it was changed later in favor of Anderson quitting so Udina could betray you later.

It's not awful, but it's one of the few things that made me grumble a bit.

And, with the risk of getting stoned:

I actually dont like ME's combat. Mainly because I feel there's a lot left to be desired with both Biotics and Techs, and secondly because it just gravitates towards Gears of War-style cover based shooting.

It's also a mixed bag for me. On one hand, you could do a lot with the combat if you made some improvements or tried something new. On the other hand, I really do think ME shouldnt be about the combat.

[tonberrian]

I did like ME1's endgame on normal, where you could march through the entire Citadel section ignoring cover as an invincible god of war.

Admittedly that isn't balanced at all.

So far, playing though ME2 for the first time, I find that I really dislike how linear all the missions are. And I really, really miss ME1's maps.

[LibraryOgre]

I did like ME1's endgame on normal, where you could march through the entire Citadel section ignoring cover as an invincible god of war.

Admittedly that isn't balanced at all.

So far, playing though ME2 for the first time, I find that I really dislike how linear all the missions are. And I really, really miss ME1's maps.

ME2 was, in many ways, the weakest in level design. When you ended a mission, that was it for the place... you couldn't pick up anything you missed, you couldn't check a map to see if you were missing a place, nothing. ME3 at least introduced "Buy the things you missed" option, and usually asked you if you were done.

[Psyren]

ME2 was, in many ways, the weakest in level design. When you ended a mission, that was it for the place... you couldn't pick up anything you missed, you couldn't check a map to see if you were missing a place, nothing. ME3 at least introduced "Buy the things you missed" option, and usually asked you if you were done.

Agreed - and also, the hub areas in ME3 (Citadel, Normandy, Silversun, Aria's Hideout) had maps that let you know where you were and where your squadmates were - particularly handy since they could also move around (like real people, natch.)

My first time playing ME2, I lost count of how many times I got lost on Omega, the Citadel or Ilium looking for that one store that had the upgrade I needed in order to unlock Heavy Skin Weave or the Cain or whatever.

[tonberrian]

Okay, I picked up sniper rifles for my Vanguard because the Carnifax wasn't cutting it for armor. So far I'm satisfied, because Scions are now merely annoying rather than oh god why. Is there any reason to switch to the Viper over the Mantis?

[Anteros]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Psyren]

Okay, I picked up sniper rifles for my Vanguard because the Carnifax wasn't cutting it for armor. So far I'm satisfied, because Scions are now merely annoying rather than oh god why. Is there any reason to switch to the Viper over the Mantis?

Most definitely

[Kish]

{{Scrubbed}}

[tonberrian]

Okay. Is there a step between "I am your CO" and "I want to jump you" in Garrus's romance? That seemed kind of sudden.

[Psyren]

*applauds Kish*

Okay. Is there a step between "I am your CO" and "I want to jump you" in Garrus's romance? That seemed kind of sudden.

ME2 FemShep is a creeper, sad to say. I couldn't even talk to Jacob with her between missions, and Thane was almost as bad. Thank god you get the prompt for his loyalty mission whether you chat with him or not.

[Landis963]

ME2 FemShep is a creeper, sad to say. I couldn't even talk to Jacob with her between missions, and Thane was almost as bad. Thank god you get the prompt for his loyalty mission whether you chat with him or not.

Does she get better in ME3? I've only played as MShep thus far.