Blood Bowl in the Playground II: It's Going To Be Elves Again, Isn't It?

[Silfir]

Right, my match again the Lizards was an interesting one. It went 2-1 in the Humans' favor, but my chances of winning might've just died a little bit.

First half, the Lizards managed to skink their way to a touchdown, stealing the ball from the humans due in no small part to the best Kroxigor. Seriously, it's level three with block, something has gone terribly wrong. The half also saw the loss of one of my guard blitzers, with the apothecary rerolling a -1 STR to dead.

Second half, we managed to swipe the ball from the lizards, a pass down the pitch leading to the human catcher scoring, but not before my Ogre both-downed a Skink and died instantly, leaving the skink perfectly healthy. Still, his sacrifice might have prevented the skink from basing my catcher, so possibly not in vain.

Three turns left, a mob of humans managed to overrun the outnumbered Lizardmen, stealing the ball from the skink holding it. Due to what was apparently a miracle from Sigmar, the bouncing ball was immediately caught by the human catcher, who once again sprinted downfield to victory.

In short: Level 2 Ogre and level 2 Blitzer dead, potentially crippling my team going forward. The Lizards lost, but as far as I remember escaped any permanent injuries, aside from a concussed loner. I have 100k in the bank now; what do people think, replacement Blitzer or save for an Ogre?

A very well-played match; I'm sure I would have enjoyed it if, y'know, everything I hold dear didn't spontaneously die to Skinks.

I'm not sure exactly what I'd do. One factor that speaks in favor of the Ogre first plan is that a 7 Movement Guard piece is still useful with Strength 2. He won't be doing any hitting or scoring, only assists, and you don't care if he lives or dies, which makes him easier to throw into the death zone for a crucial assist compared to your other two Guard pieces. You'd have to pay 170k in inducements (I think) to get a guard Blitzer merc, and he's still 60k cheaper than that.

If you want to minimize a risk of MVP getting wasted, you'd fire the crippled Blitzer now and replace him right away, leaving you with 11 players for the next match. That will leave you without an ogre for a couple of matches, including against Spartak's Orcs, and you'll be down one Guard piece on top of that.

I guess it comes down to how much the risk of wasting MVP bothers you, and how good Humans are without the Ogre.

[Wraith]

Right, my match again the Lizards was an interesting one. It went 2-1 in the Humans' favor, but my chances of winning might've just died a little bit.

Whoa, talk about a Pyrrhic victory.... I'm glad that you enjoyed yourself, but WOW, that's got to have been a heart-breaker!

I have 100k in the bank now; what do people think, replacement Blitzer or save for an Ogre?

Were I in your position, I'd agree with Silfir. Your injured Blitzer (you kept the -1Str, right? I can't tell if you let him die or not) is still valuable to you as a supporting piece and as a sacrificial pawn for dangerous plays. If you can get him Stand Firm or Side Step to minimize the amount of shoving around he receives and maximize the amount of Guarding that he can do then he will still turn out to be really useful.

Similarly, at this point in the league I think that everyone who can have a Big Guy on their team, does. A healthy Blitzer, while useful, is just another STR3 body who is doing the same running and catching that other players on your team can be doing, but while you can fight down other teams without a Big Guy of your own I think having an Ogre around would make such a life MUCH easier for you.

Wraith, when would be a good time for our game?

I'm completely free at any time between Thursday morning and Sunday evening. Monday to Wednesday, I prefer before noon but I can do late evening if necessary.

[Silfir]

Well, I certainly wouldn't keep a Str 2 Blitzer around long-term (though it's quite possible that he'll play one game with another skill before his replacement shows up, being 15/16) when it's fairly easy to get Guard on a fresh, non-crippled Blitzer, and the sooner you start, the better. He just takes up too much TV, and more skills on him will only exacerbate the problem. There are very few players I'd consider worth keeping on the roster with a Strength decrease, because the stat is so universally useful; maybe a deep passing specialist on elven or Skaven teams. But as long as you're low on cash, there's still a practical, not just a technical, difference between -STR and dead. (Depending on the Inducements situation, you might be better off cutting him even without a replacement once he recovers. If doing so gets you a Wizard against the Orcs, for instance, that might be worth considering.)

[Luzahn]

Err...15/16?

...he stole the MVP, didn't he.

[Wraith]

Well, I certainly wouldn't keep a Str 2 Blitzer around long-term (though it's quite possible that he'll play one game with another skill before his replacement shows up, being 15/16) when it's fairly easy to get Guard on a fresh, non-crippled Blitzer, and the sooner you start, the better. He just takes up too much TV, and more skills on him will only exacerbate the problem.

Oh, I agree with that - my point was that I was trying to emphasize that you wouldn't fire him until you needed to.
He's still going to be an asset if you use him right, and you can always sack him at a moments' notice if you need to stop a weaker team from getting too many inducements against you, or you're playing against a more expensive team and YOU need the inducements by exaggerating your TV difference. And when you get your Ogre - in my opinion, a more strategically valuable player - you're in a better position to make that call.

Of course, since this game is entirely in Nuffle's domain, it's probably a 50-50 chance that after the next game the injured Blitzer will receive an MVP and earn a +1STR advance, just to mess with Luzahn. Just in the same way that failing a GFI roll is 2+, but failing a REROLL'd GFI will happen about 9 times out of 10, if my experience is anything to go by....

[Silfir]

Oh, I agree with that - my point was that I was trying to emphasize that you wouldn't fire him until you needed to.
He's still going to be an asset if you use him right, and you can always sack him at a moments' notice if you need to stop a weaker team from getting too many inducements against you, or you're playing against a more expensive team and YOU need the inducements by exaggerating your TV difference. And when you get your Ogre - in my opinion, a more strategically valuable player - you're in a better position to make that call.

Of course, since this game is entirely in Nuffle's domain, it's probably a 50-50 chance that after the next game the injured Blitzer will receive an MVP and earn a +1STR advance, just to mess with Luzahn. Just in the same way that failing a GFI roll is 2+, but failing a REROLL'd GFI will happen about 9 times out of 10, if my experience is anything to go by....

Indeed, we're in perfect agreement!

[Brother Oni]

If you want to minimize a risk of MVP getting wasted, you'd fire the crippled Blitzer now and replace him right away, leaving you with 11 players for the next match. That will leave you without an ogre for a couple of matches, including against Spartak's Orcs, and you'll be down one Guard piece on top of that.

I guess it comes down to how much the risk of wasting MVP bothers you, and how good Humans are without the Ogre.

Depending on what Wraith's Deathroller does to my team, Luzahn and I may be in the same boat with both of us having an expected casualty light game (High Elves for him, Wood Elves for me) in between to lick our wounds.

Humans are fine at running and throwing plays without the ogre but against bash heavy teams, they really need the additional muscle to put up significant resistance, especially if the opposing side has a big guy. I'll third the recommendation of keeping the STR2 Guard Blitzer, mainly for use on the line of scrimmage as with Guard, he'll be attracting a lot of attention and you'd still need STR5 to get a 3 dice block.

I'm completely free at any time between Thursday morning and Sunday evening. Monday to Wednesday, I prefer before noon but I can do late evening if necessary.

How about tomorrow at 1pm?

Just in the same way that failing a GFI roll is 2+, but failing a REROLL'd GFI will happen about 9 times out of 10, if my experience is anything to go by....

I swear, if I get another double GFI for a TD next game, I am going to kill something small and defenceless...

[Luzahn]

Well, Crichton lives for now, I appreciate the input.

At least being down a blitzer and Ogre shouldn't be too damaging against the Elves. They'll just sprint by anyway.

[LCP]

Maethirion: I'm free most evenings. Monday OK? What times GMT are you available?

[Wraith]

Depending on what Wraith's Deathroller does to my team....

It'll be fine. He's adorable and just wants hugs, but happens to be a bit... clumsy. Like an over-eager Newfoundland puppy. Honest.

How about tomorrow at 1pm?

Perfect.

Unrelated note: Did all the Legacy League games get completed yet? It seems like an age since LCP and I played, and I don't want to be accidentally ignoring my next opponent.

[Luzahn]

No, I just haven't managed to get in touch with science officer.

[Brother Oni]

The Ironbeards 0: Spartak's Blud Bowl Klub 1

With both teams sporting new muscle in the form of a deathroller for the dwarves and a troll for the orcs, both teams lined up eager and ready for a brutal match.

The dwarves received and in the initial flurry of blows, the brand new troll and a Black Orc went off KO'd. The dwarves assembled in a 3/4 cage on their right wing, while the orcs evened up the injury list on the other side of the pitch by crowd surfing a blocker.

A slight miscalculation in the cage formation let a pair of orc blitzers sneak round the side of the cage and blitzed the ball carrying runner, but only shoved him further away. The dwarves counter attacked and badly injured another Black Orc, pushing through the orc lines and the runner went back down the right wing as originally intended. A orc blitzer ran down the lone unprotected runner and killed him (the dwarf apothecary could only wring his hands in helplessness as the pile of meat that was formerly the dwarf runner came in), recovering the ball while the rest of the orcs tried to withstand the dwarf battering squad, losing their thrower to an injury.
Rushing back upfield, the blitzer ran into stiff resistance, losing the ball, but it was too late for the dwarves to score and the half ended with the orcs and dwarves slapping each other ineffectually.

Hopes for a better second half faded as only one Black Orc woke up and the eight orcs stood against a full strength dwarvern team, with only greatly reduced dwarvern ball handling and a sulking deathroller driver in the penalty box as consolation.

Learning from their previous match with Measured Response, the Orcs set up in deep defence with only sacrificial linesorcs and an unskilled Black Orc on the line of scrimmage and received. The ball was kicked high, but the orcs forgot to move under it and it scattered in the middle of the left wide zone. Throwing the remainder of their whole team around the ball in a cage, the orcs advanced up, but a mis-positioning by the dwarves let the same pair of blitzers sidestep up the pitch again. In an effort to keep up with his faster team mate, the non-ball carrying blitzer tried a second GFI, but fell over, causing a poorly timed turnover.
Capitalising on the error, three dwarves, a blitzer, block and a slayer surrounded the hapless orc, but only shoved him about a bit.

The orcs piled in more help, the blitzer broke free and sprinted up field, staring again at another double GFI... and made it! (). With only the slayer in range, he mysteriously got distracted by the target rich environment and went after the closer orcs instead (rumours of the other orcs making unkind remarks about the slayer's parentage, genitalia size and haircut have been denied on the grounds that none of the remaining orc players would be clever enough to come up with such a cunning plan). The blitzer then set about running down the clock and the dwarves, realising their error, belatedly ran after him, failing multiple GFIs. Eventually they caught up with the orc, forcing him to score, but not before two turns had been wasted.

The Dwarves receiving again, the orcs kicked it far into the backfield, landing a square short of a touchback in the endzone. With only three turns left to score and the entire length of the pitch to travel (all 26 squares) on stumpy MA5 legs, the dwarves needed a throw or a handoff to have a chance of equalising... only for the blitzer to fumble the handoff.


An expectedly brutal match and my troll was decidedly useless, staying unconscious for the whole match on his first received block but fortunately, the Black Orcs handled all the requisite heavy lifting. The match was a lot closer than the 10/20 rating implied and if it wasn't for the slayer deciding he wanted to beat up orcs instead of chasing after the ball carrier, the Ironbeards may have been in with a chance of equalising.
Personally, I would have started fouling the downed orcs in order to stop clock running, but Wraith is a lot nicer than me.

What was the main factor though, was the Bad Habits I bought with the 100k inducements, reducing the Ironbeards to only 1 reroll a turn, which was worth far more than anything else (except maybe a pair of Budweiser Babes). I did end up wasting a fair few of my rerolls on GFIs only for them to fail again, but they didn't make much a difference in the end.

It was very odd seeing orcs and dwarves playing an elfball style running match but 3 casualties and 1 death should be enough blood for anybody - good game Wraith!

[Silfir]

"Bad Habits"? As in, the inducement option?

Now I finally know why the Ironbeards only had one reroll on the match against the Darkworlders! (Thought it was a bug of sorts!) I didn't realize that one was even available - I just assumed we'd have the same inducements that are in the Classic single player campaign (and the rulebook). I'll really have to pay attention to that. Getting cut down to two rerolls wouldn't be quite as bad as 1, but bad nonetheless. (Maybe this match will serve as a wake-up call to the teams still at 2 re-rolls, but gathering TV through skills and roster additions.)

It sounds like the somewhat unexpected reason for the win was the Orcs' superior mobility, of all things; after they killed the Runner (I guess concealing an Axe inside your beard is not so much cunning as it is a health hazard) the Blitzers turned into the superstars on the field, faster than any dwarven player, adept in ball handling and hard to bring down to boot. If that indeed was a lesson learned from the match against Measured Response (the second half, at any rate), I cannot help but feel honored.

(If we calculate each of those blitzers as being worth twice a dwarven player, you started the second half with twelve against eleven - quite the advantage in numbers!)

At any rate, congratulations! Sounds like a hell of a match to have missed! There's not much use in feigning neutrality; every single misfortune befalling those smelly heaps of hair, fat and dried beer residue is music to the ears of an Amazon coach. And an upset victory against the league's joint leading team is exactly what the doctor ordered for Spartak's, who lost and drew their matches so far more due to bad luck than anything else. Nothing is set in stone - anyone can beat anyone. Welcome to Blood Bowl.

This also means there are only three undefeated teams left. Imperial Space Corps has made it through match day six unscathed already, so all eyes lusting to see the haughty fall are now set on Euphonic Cadence... and Measured Response.

Gulp.

[Thufir]

What was the main factor though, was the Bad Habits I bought with the 100k inducements, reducing the Ironbeards to only 1 reroll a turn, which was worth far more than anything else (except maybe a pair of Budweiser Babes). I did end up wasting a fair few of my rerolls on GFIs only for them to fail again, but they didn't make much a difference in the end.

Wait, what?
Bad Habits are part of the extended inducements Cyanide made up, they're not from the official rulebook and I thought they were disabled for our league. If they aren't, they should be. Though I've noticed they seemed to be available in the Legacy League as well, so maybe there's a bug or something (that or Gnoman and Tasroth both messed up when creating the leagues). Regardless of the reason they're available, in future I beseech everyone not to use them. They were never approved by the BBRC, I don't think they're balanced, we shouldn't be using them.

For reference, the inducements which should be allowed are:
Star players & Mercenaries
Wizard
Wandering Apothecaries/Igor
Bribes
Extra Team Training
Bloodweiser Babes
Halfling Master Chef.

This also means there are only three undefeated teams left. Imperial Space Corps has made it through match day six unscathed already, so all eyes lusting to see the haughty fall are now set on Euphonic Cadence... and Measured Response.

Given that my opponent quit the league, I'm probably safe this time round. It's all on you.

[Silfir]

We don't have 100% implementation of the official rules anyways, what with only half of the Star Players actually present... But I do agree that Bad Habits is a lot more impactful than Extra Team Training, and probably not balanced at 100k. There's probably a reason you have to get to 300k inducements, or even worse, play a Halfling team, before you're even allowed a chance at removing an opponent's rerolls.

I wouldn't mind playing with them for the remainder of the season myself, for better or for worse, to keep conditions equal for the remaining teams in the remaining games. It's not fair for the Ironbeards to be one of the only teams to be hit by Bad Habits twice this season, nor would it be fair to all other teams if they didn't get to use Bad Habits now that they may have very well already been a major factor in deciding the outcome of a game.

So, next season, I agree that we should probably stick with what's mandated by the BBRC. (Minus Star Players, no thanks to Cyanide's laziness.) This season, I think they kind of have to be fair game. I'll be using them if an opportunity arises (though I think I will still prefer a Wizard) and I will expect my opponents to do so if they think it's the best option; what's legal is legal. It's one more incentive for 2 reroll teams to stock up to 3, but outside of that shouldn't distort things too much, since you can only get a maximum of 1, and TV disparities that would allow Halfling Master Chef together with Bad Habits are very unlikely in the inaugural season. It's just the drop from two rerolls to one that can really lay the hurt on a team's performance.

Of course, take my opinion with a grain of salt, because I started the league with three re-rolls; it's the two reroll teams that were prioritizing other investments that get hit the hardest.

[Ionbound]

Oh dear. I apologize for that...I didn't realize Bad Habits were banned when I bought them. Totally my bad.

[Silfir]

Oh dear. I apologize for that...I didn't realize Bad Habits were banned when I bought them. Totally my bad.

They were never explicitly banned in a way I noticed. At worst, they were overlooked on league creation. But they were available to anyone at any time (they were probably used in other games we haven't seen mentioned here, too) and Lord only knows you needed any help you could get against those filthy dwarfses. You did nothing even remotely wrong.

Also, I don't suppose you could stage a comeback and murder some elves? They're sweet, squishy, delectable AV7... Some of them even have skills. I hear level 3 Catchers make a delicious roast over the fire.

[Thufir]

I wouldn't mind playing with them for the remainder of the season myself, for better or for worse, to keep conditions equal for the remaining teams in the remaining games. It's not fair for the Ironbeards to be one of the only teams to be hit by Bad Habits twice this season, nor would it be fair to all other teams if they didn't get to use Bad Habits now that they may have very well already been a major factor in deciding the outcome of a game.

So, next season, I agree that we should probably stick with what's mandated by the BBRC. (Minus Star Players, no thanks to Cyanide's laziness.) This season, I think they kind of have to be fair game. I'll be using them if an opportunity arises (though I think I will still prefer a Wizard) and I will expect my opponents to do so if they think it's the best option; what's legal is legal.

I disagree. I say we should play by the rules. They were only allowed through an oversight, which we can correct at this point, and simply view the games featuring the extended inducements as anomalies.

@firedaemon: It's no problem. There was no mention anywhere of them being disallowed (because they shouldn't have been available at all) so we can't blame you. That's why I just said they should be avoided in future.

[Brother Oni]

Wait, what?
Bad Habits are part of the extended inducements Cyanide made up, they're not from the official rulebook and I thought they were disabled for our league. If they aren't, they should be.

I was wonder why I had never seen that inducement option before - oops sorry, my bad.
I'm used to an entirely different set of inducements and thought they were permitted to use.

It sounds like the somewhat unexpected reason for the win was the Orcs' superior mobility, of all things; after they killed the Runner (I guess concealing an Axe inside your beard is not so much cunning as it is a health hazard) the Blitzers turned into the superstars on the field, faster than any dwarven player, adept in ball handling and hard to bring down to boot.

It didn't help the dwarves that one blitzer had MA7, which even their fastest players would require 2 GFIs to keep up with, before my orc would needed to break a sweat. Incidentally, one linesorc levelled up and I again rolled the option of +1MA - Nuffle appears to want to turn my orcs into a running team (I chose the boring option of Block, although the +1AV was tempting but I figured that Block would have been better overall at keeping him on his feet).

If that indeed was a lesson learned from the match against Measured Response (the second half, at any rate), I cannot help but feel honored.

No, it was deep defence while being outnumbered that I learnt from you, although dwavern Tackle gives no advantage if none of your players have Dodge.

They were never explicitly banned in a way I noticed. At worst, they were overlooked on league creation. But they were available to anyone at any time (they were probably used in other games we haven't seen mentioned here, too) and Lord only knows you needed any help you could get against those filthy dwarfses. You did nothing even remotely wrong.

Also, I don't suppose you could stage a comeback and murder some elves? They're sweet, squishy, delectable AV7... Some of them even have skills. I hear level 3 Catchers make a delicious roast over the fire.

I don't think they were generally available - not many matches have had a 100TV difference yet.

As for the Elves, I'll do my best to crunch some for you next week, although by the time you play the Leapers in Week 12, they'd probably have recovered.

[Silfir]

I disagree. I say we should play by the rules. They were only allowed through an oversight, which we can correct at this point, and simply view the games featuring the extended inducements as anomalies.

@firedaemon: It's no problem. There was no mention anywhere of them being disallowed (because they shouldn't have been available at all) so we can't blame you. That's why I just said they should be avoided in future.

I agree we should play by the rules. But those rules were set at the beginning of the league by the league commissioner, and they happen to include Bad Habits. If we signed up for this league, that's the rules we signed up to play under.

Nor can we "correct" this oversight at this point. We can only introduce further imbalances by changing the rules of the league mid-season. There's no reason to create anomalies in the first place; Bad Habits are not that bad. Add to that the potential confusion of a banned inducement being available to be selected and what to do when both players only remember after the match Bad Habits were supposed to be banned...

A season break is the only appropriate time to change the rules of a league.

[Qwertystop]

I agree we should play by the rules. But those rules were set at the beginning of the league by the league commissioner, and they happen to include Bad Habits. If we signed up for this league, that's the rules we signed up to play under.

Nor can we "correct" this oversight at this point. We can only introduce further imbalances by changing the rules of the league mid-season. There's no reason to create anomalies in the first place; Bad Habits are not that bad. Add to that the potential confusion of a banned inducement being available to be selected and what to do when both players only remember after the match Bad Habits were supposed to be banned...

A season break is the only appropriate time to change the rules of a league.

As someone who isn't actually in the league this season, I agree.

[Luzahn]

The last Legacy League match has managed to be played. As you would expect from high-TV Skaven vs Dark Elves, the score was a bit...fun. 3-2 in favor of the dark elves, with a last-turn pass-play ensuring their victory. It's worth mentioning that the game was 2-0 in our favor until about turn 12. At which point the Skaven managed a 2-turn and a 1-turn touchdown in succession.

That game hinged on so many lucky dodges. A very fun match overall, which I might have only won due to those highly annoying leaping 5 AGI guys.

[Gnoman]

Extended inducements were NOT an oversight. I turned them on on purpose, because I like them.

[Thufir]

Extended inducements were NOT an oversight. I turned them on on purpose, because I like them.

Then you are wrong.

Also, I'm pretty sure you never mentioned this, which is significant, because I did not sign up for this garbage. Some people may be OK with using the extended inducements, I am emphatically not. If anything, it should have been put to a vote and/or discussion, not just switched on willy-nilly without even telling anyone.

[Tasroth]

The last Legacy League match has managed to be played. As you would expect from high-TV Skaven vs Dark Elves, the score was a bit...fun. 3-2 in favor of the dark elves, with a last-turn pass-play ensuring their victory. It's worth mentioning that the game was 2-0 in our favor until about turn 12. At which point the Skaven managed a 2-turn and a 1-turn touchdown in succession.

That game hinged on so many lucky dodges. A very fun match overall, which I might have only won due to those highly annoying leaping 5 AGI guys.

Match validated, day advanced

Legacy League Week 5

Dokkalfar Daggers (Luzahn) vs. The Ruinous Rampagers (LCP)
Ekrund Infiltrators (Science Officer) vs. Tasroth's Dark Stars (Tasroth)
Hammersjurg Destroyers (Wraith) vs. Meddling Insects (Shishnarfne)
The Adrasteia (Thufir) vs. The Murderhobos (SaruSama)

[Luzahn]

Well, I now have a leaping, 5 AGI guard blitzer.

...I'm going to be so sad when he gets murdered.

[LCP]

Ooh, the Daggers. Excellent - I was starting to miss Lord Borak

On the extended inducements - I noticed they were there before but assumed that was in error, so didn't use them. I've got to agree with Thufir that people should have been consulted about that decision, and I personally will continue not to use them.

Nor can we "correct" this oversight at this point. We can only introduce further imbalances by changing the rules of the league mid-season.

I disagree - this isn't some hyper-competitive sports league where we all care furiously about our ranking; it's about having fun. If there's a group consensus that they negatively affect people's enjoyment of the game, then it's much better that we drop them now than continue using them (and spoiling people's fun) for the whole season out of some overly finicky principle of equal treatment. It's only affected one game so far, after all.

My opinions on this aren't terribly strong, but that's the way I feel about it.

[Silfir]

Then you are wrong.

Also, I'm pretty sure you never mentioned this, which is significant, because I did not sign up for this garbage. Some people may be OK with using the extended inducements, I am emphatically not. If anything, it should have been put to a vote and/or discussion, not just switched on willy-nilly without even telling anyone.

What is Gnoman wrong about? Is he only suffering from the delusion that he likes the extended inducements?

I'm assuming Gnoman thought whether or not extended inducements were in or out just wasn't as big of a deal that he'd bother polling potential coaches about it, given that many of the players signing up were and still are beginners to Blood Bowl. From where I'm standing, you're making a far bigger deal out of them than they deserve, and what little I do know about tournaments and tournament rules (which applies to any competitively played game) is that you don't change the latter while the former is still ongoing.

A clarification on what inducements are legal in the game and how they actually work would be appreciated, though. I can't find a way in-game to access a list of available inducements in the Gitp league without starting a match. And once the season ends, my vote would be on switching to only the inducements found in the official rulebook.

Of course, is you're that emphatically not okay with playing with them for reasons of your own, there's always the option of dropping out.

I disagree - this isn't some hyper-competitive sports league where we all care furiously about our ranking; it's about having fun. If there's a group consensus that they negatively affect people's enjoyment of the game, then it's much better that we drop them now than continue using them (and spoiling people's fun) for the whole season out of some overly finicky principle of equal treatment. It's only affected one game so far, after all.

My opinions on this aren't terribly strong, but that's the way I feel about it.

It's because this isn't a hyper-competitive league that I don't see the point of getting upset. I don't really want to have to be having rules debates mid-season to form some sort of nebulous group consensus, when the impact of the extended inducements is so minimal. The entire reason we got ourselves a commissioner is so they can make the decisions and the coaches can simply worry about setting aside time to play every two weeks and how to build their teams. I'd quite like to go back to doing that.

There are at least two games Bad Habits were used in, by the way. That the Ironbeards won one of them despite them being used doesn't mean the game wasn't affected. But that's neither here nor there. And I do kind of want to be able to use them now, too, see? To me they're part of the game, at least for the remainder of this season, even if I wouldn't have put them in myself.

We all have the little things that bother us sometimes. I'm bothered by mid-way rule changes at least as much as Thufir is bothered by a lack of strict adherence to the rulebook. I just don't like the general tone things are starting to take. "I didn't sign up for this garbage" as a line just generally bothered me, which I think is coloring this post, too. I want to go back to laughing at dead elves and despising dwarfs and their stupid Tackle.

[Wraith]

With only the slayer in range, he mysteriously got distracted by the target rich environment and went after the closer orcs instead. The blitzer then set about running down the clock and the dwarves realising their error, belatedly ran after him, failing multiple GFIs. Eventually they caught up with the orc, forcing him to score, but not before two turns had been wasted.

I have no excuse here - I completely miscounted how far the Trollslayer could move. I then decided (against my own advice from the last thread, no less) that if I couldn't close the guy down, I could instead try and do so much damage to your team that you would lose your bottle and run in the TD before you suffered too much long term damage.

But no; I broke before you did. Apparently, I utterly underestimated Brother Oni's cold-hearted disregard for the suffering of others.

Personally, I would have started fouling the downed orcs in order to stop clock running, but Wraith is a lot nicer than me.

I've mentioned my feelings on fouling before (and yes, I am aware that I am the only person in the league with a Dirty Player on my team!) but in this particular instance we'd each spent 14 turns flailing around the pitch, botching GFI rolls left, right and center. I didn't think that my luck would allow me to do any damage, while at the same time probably getting sent off for my trouble. I was out of substitutes, and really wanted to keep the numbers advantage. Hence, the traditional offensive with the Trollslayer.

...[g]ood game Wraith!

It was! Thanks again - I'll be back for revenge in the play-offs, you mark my words!

At any rate, congratulations! Sounds like a hell of a match to have missed!

Honestly, while it was a very cunning and challenging game to play, I'm not sure it would be to watch.

I made some pretty galling mistakes, Brother Oni played somewhat carefully and conservatively (a compliment, before you ask) and neither of us could succeed a damn GFI roll to save our lives. There were so many turnovers, following by long periods of clock-running.... It's probably educational, at least. I'm sure it'll end up on my Let's Play before too long.

There's not much use in feigning neutrality; every single misfortune befalling those smelly heaps of hair, fat and dried beer residue is music to the ears of an Amazon coach.

Right! If that's how it's going to be, you just made The List!

*takes out a small notebook and the stub of a pencil, carefully and painstakingly writes down the word 'S-I-L-L-F-I-R' and puts both away*

....I have a list now, by the way.

And an upset victory against the league's joint leading team is exactly what the doctor ordered for Spartak's, who lost and drew their matches so far more due to bad luck than anything else. Nothing is set in stone - anyone can beat anyone. Welcome to Blood Bowl.

I'm not going to lie - it's nice, not to be under so much pressure to keep up the streak.

Seriously though, I agree. It's great when a League is in flux like that, and I don't even mind losing if it makes the end-game more thrilling.

It's not fair for the Ironbeards to be one of the only teams to be hit by Bad Habits twice this season, nor would it be fair to all other teams if they didn't get to use Bad Habits now that they may have very well already been a major factor in deciding the outcome of a game.

Please forgive me if this next bit sounds a little bit like a soapbox, but I feel that I have a significant perspective on this issue. Not only is it my team that these contested inducements has been used against, but after playing Brother Oni I immediately replaced my dead Runner and another player's SPP racked up an advance, so my TV is just as high as it was before - I'm 60pts clear of the next closest rival, and well over 400pts above the current lowest in the League, whom I have yet to play - and as such I would suspect to see Bad Habits and the rest to be used against me in the future (Particularly now, as it has been publically pointed out that it's something that works.... )

And to that, I say: Fine.

I don't have many rerolls, and I know that it's a weakness of my team. I'm fine with that - in fact, I congratulate Firedaemon33 and Brother Oni for taking advantage of it, because it was certainly unexpected. Quite frankly, I'm happy to leave an open invitation to any of my opponents to use whatever inducements that they like, because I'm just here to enjoy playing Blood Bowl, which is even better when my opponent gets to one-up me sometimes and thus enjoy THEMSELVES too.

That being said, I appreciate that some of you don't like them because they're not "core", and that's fine too. To that, I suggest that we don't worry about any kind of hard- or soft-ban on anything, because that will just split the 'board into the For and Against factions, so someone is going to get upset whichever way it goes.
Rather, I recommend the traditional rule that we used to use when I regularly played Blood Bowl as the board game: Just ask your opponent before you play, and make sure that they don't mind. If not; fair enough, they want core Blood Bowl and a 'traditional' game. If they DO let you use them, then clearly they want mayhem and craziness, which are also traditional to Blood Bowl!

So, let's all shake hands, dust off, be friends and get back to the far more important issue of kicking Elves in the teeth, shall we?

...I'm going to be so sad when he gets murdered.

Speaking of which.... Dibs!

[LCP]

We all have the little things that bother us sometimes. I'm bothered by mid-way rule changes at least as much as Thufir is bothered by a lack of strict adherence to the rulebook. I just don't like the general tone things are starting to take. "I didn't sign up for this garbage" as a line just generally bothered me, which I think is coloring this post, too.

The thing is, this is not the first time that Gnoman has unilaterally decided something that the rest of us didn't necessarily want. I'm grateful that he started the first thread and got this whole thing rolling, but this league only exists because we're here as a community. I think "I didn't sign up for this" is a fair response to the fact that not only were we not asked about this decision, we weren't even told.

EDIT:

The entire reason we got ourselves a commissioner is so they can make the decisions

Maybe to your mind that's the reason to have a commissioner, but I don't recall anybody agreeing to that! I'd also point out we have multiple commissioners.

That being said, I think Wraith's suggestion (agree among yourselves before the game) is the best of both worlds.

Dibs!

Khorak the Minotaur does not respect the Dibs system