Dreamscarred Press - Tzocatl, The First Language: Open Playtest

[hiryuu]

This all looks great - I'll be playing an Advocate in an upcoming campaign.

I do have to ask, though, where's the Charisma-based speaker?

As for places of Tzocatl learning? I nominate "kiva." Sure, it's not exactly their purpose, but it works, you know?

[meemaas]

There isn't one yet. This project has gone on hiatus from what I understand because the developer had some personal concerns come up. I suggest playing extensively and noting your concerns when he comes back.

[Fax Celestis]

There isn't one yet. This project has gone on hiatus from what I understand because the developer had some personal concerns come up. I suggest playing extensively and noting your concerns when he comes back.

...which should be any day now. Hi guys. Disclosure: I had a death in the family and have not particularly been having good times financially the past few months, so this has sort of gotten backburnered, but I have a plan and a schedule I'm sticking myself to and I'm going to get this done. So, that said, I'll compile and put up a clean playtesting doc soon, as the current one is literally covered with editing markup.

[hiryuu]

...which should be any day now. Hi guys. Disclosure: I had a death in the family and have not particularly been having good times financially the past few months, so this has sort of gotten backburnered, but I have a plan and a schedule I'm sticking myself to and I'm going to get this done. So, that said, I'll compile and put up a clean playtesting doc soon, as the current one is literally covered with editing markup.

Oh no! That stinks T_T

If you need any help, of any sort, even if it's just to, like, yell at me to feel better, feel free to seek me out.

As far as playing, everything seems alright so far. I haven't actually gotten Tahuaca Four-Jaugar-Two-Macaw into a game yet, but she looks pretty fun on paper.

[Taveena]

Sorry to hear about that. :( Are you at least okay now financially?

[Fax Celestis]

Sorry to hear about that. :( Are you at least okay now financially?

Enh. Single-income family, two kids. So you know, money's always a thing, but we've got food and shelter and power, so we're not that bad off.

[angellis_ater]

Hi!

James - I'd love for you to get in touch with us at Dreamscarred Press ASAP.

[NomGarret]

So I hope that this project still has life, as I just recently got a good look at it. I like what I see. My biggest thought at the moment is about base effects succeeding even if you fail to meet the DC. I may run some numbers to see what can be accomplished even if you fail all checks.

[ElderLucian]

Did not realized this was a thing... hope it is continuing because I'm starting a campaign soon and when I told one of my players about this he immediately rerolled to try it out.

[NomGarret]

I suggest smoothing out the edict progression for Advocates. They get a total of 23 edicts plus litanies and right now you learn anywhere from 0-3 at any given level. Level 3 just grants a bonus feat while level 4 grants 2 edicts known and the first litany.

[Ssalarn]

Hey all! So, here's the deal-

James has unfortunately had to drop out of this project to deal with some real life issues, so I'll be taking his place to run this thing through the finish line. I have a few goals-

1) Maintain the integrity of James' work so far.

2) Tighten up both base classes and get them ready to wrap. This may include beating the Knight-Scholar into something that looks a fair degree different than it does now.

3) Add in some new archetypes that I feel this project would benefit from, particularly the Bard, Ranger, and Witch.

4) Finish, and possibly make a few tweaks to, the existing Litanies and Edicts.

5) Finish the product in a timely manner with the highest possible quality.


I'd love it if you all could help me meet these goals with playtest and feedback data. Some of the things that I'm considering doing to meet these goals include-

1) Reevaluating the role of litanies and edicts. I've seen a few comments on how the progressions of the Advocate and Knight-Scholar are a bit wonky, and I think making Litanies just another type of Edict with the [Litany] keyword is a step towards resolving those problems. I don't believe we need two separate progressions for Edicts and Edicts-that-are-really-just-sustainable-buffs.

2) Switching the Knight-Scholar to a full BAB chassis. This is actually going to involve a lot more work than that simple mission statement would indicate, but I think it's important to establish the Advocate as the "master" of Tzocatl/Truenaming, and that involves strengthening his facility with the new subsystem a bit and shifting the focus of the second class.

I'm also looking at some other options, such as a class or archetype that actually inscribes names into totems or tattoos, using them in a slightly different way, but I'll talk a bit more about that when it's ready.

For now, I'd love to hear what everyone has to say, whether it be about my projected goals and ideas, issues or compliments for the existing materials, or what have you. Anyone worried that this will derail one of my other projects, like Psitech - don't worry. Those are proceeding apace, though I do anticipate that Psitech and Tzocatl will probably have some time where both are in playtest simulaneously.

Thank you everyone!

[Ilorin Lorati]

Anyone worried that this will derail one of my other projects, like Psitech - don't worry. Those are proceeding apace, though I do anticipate that Psitech and Tzocatl will probably have some time where both are playtest simulaneously.

Thank you everyone!

All I needed to hear. Looking forward to seeing this project continuing. Shame about James, though.

[Novawurmson]

Sorry to see Fax Celestis go, but happy to see Ssalarn in. Excited to see the next update.

[stack]

The scribing onto items/tattoos sounds interesting. Since you have shadowcasting in the works, you'll have 2/3 of the tome of magic updates under your belt. If there wasn't already a good PF binder out there...

[Vhaidara]

Grab nab it Ssalarn, I want Shadewalker!

I'll actually have to find time go back through this. I remember building a character for a short lived playtest attempt. IIRC, my biggest complaint was lack of synergy. A Litany that increased fire damage, but then almost no internal access to fire damage, things like that

[Ssalarn]

Grab nab it Ssalarn, I want Shadewalker!

I'll actually have to find time go back through this. I remember building a character for a short lived playtest attempt. IIRC, my biggest complaint was lack of synergy. A Litany that increased fire damage, but then almost no internal access to fire damage, things like that

You never know, DSP may do a big Tome of Magic style release with Akasha, Tzocatl, and Shadow magic, given that I've designed or worked on all three. The future is an exciting place with endless possibilities!

As to the whole synergy thing - I've noticed that there are a lot of edicts that do a particular type of energy damage, lie electricity. I'm looking into bumping the number of edicts known and allowing you to take the same edict multiple times, selecting a different energy type each time. Still running the math on that fix to make sure it works out appropriately, but I think it's a good way to go.

The scribing onto items/tattoos sounds interesting. Since you have shadowcasting in the works, you'll have 2/3 of the tome of magic updates under your belt. If there wasn't already a good PF binder out there...

I'm actually of Native Alaskan descent (Tlingit), so the temptation to do a class or archetype that uses totems has been nagging at me for a bit, especially since it didn't happen with Akashic Mysteries. I think that this could be a really good place to explore that idea.

[Kaidinah]

I am sad to see James go. He was a pretty cool designer and I totally digged his naming sense for a lot of the stuff in Tzocatl. I wish him and his family the best.

Thank you Ssalarn for bringing Tsocatl back. Its been a while, so I am not fresh on my litanies and edicts, though I think combining the two sounds like a good idea. As for the Knight Scholar, Full-Babbing it sounds like a good start to developing an identity for it. It was weird having both classes be medium BaB.

[Ssalarn]

I am sad to see James go. He was a pretty cool designer and I totally digged his naming sense for a lot of the stuff in Tzocatl. I wish him and his family the best.

Absolutely agreed.

Thank you Ssalarn for bringing Tsocatl back.

I'm more than happy to get to be a part of this project, and I'm definitely looking forward to working with everyone who's been playtesting this or who will be playtesting.

Its been a while, so I am not fresh on my litanies and edicts, though I think combining the two sounds like a good idea.

For me, they're really just names, and names with a specific subset of rules attached, so I think that combining them into one grouping is going to allow more versatility and variety of characters, and actually give a bit more design space to work with.

As for the Knight Scholar, Full-Babbing it sounds like a good start to developing an identity for it. It was weird having both classes be medium BaB.

I think I've got some good ideas where to go here. You may not know this, but I was seriously considering making the Daevic 3/4 BAB for a while, just because you tend to get more leeway from a certain subset of the player base who value that full BAB very highly and feel that it should also come with stricter limitations and narrower options elsewhere in the chassis. I think the Daevic turned out pretty good though, and he's got almost as much veilweaving power as the Vizier, though with certain limitations that throttle his total veilweaving power and versatility. I want the Knight-Scholar chassis to fit in similarly, where it feels like someone who has just as much breadth of ability within Tzocatl, but less depth and more focus.

Also, the name Knight-Scholar just strikes me wrong. Any thoughts on if I were to tweak the name to Warspeaker to accompany some of the other planned developments?

[Milo v3]

Disappointing to hear about Fax, but it's good to know that Tzocatl is still in safe hands.

[Kaidinah]

Also, the name Knight-Scholar just strikes me wrong. Any thoughts on if I were to tweak the name to Warspeaker to accompany some of the other planned developments?

Warspeaker is a very brutal sounding name, evoking a pretty cool image. I definitely think Warspeaker fits this system a bit more than the Knight Scholar's current name.

[Sayt]

Warspeaker is a good name, but I think Knight-scholar does tie in with the classes Int focus to a certain extent.

[Milo v3]

Part of me is thinking just Commander, but it's not really..... mystical enough of a military title.

[Ssalarn]

Warspeaker is a good name, but I think Knight-scholar does tie in with the classes Int focus to a certain extent.

I'm exploring the idea of making the Knight-Scholar / Warspeaker Charisma based instead. It seems like there is some demand for that, and it opens up the number of races that can excel at the system. Thoughts?

Also, which would people prefer- the option to change the type of element an Edict or Litany used by increasing the DC, or the ability to learn an Edict multiple times, with a different element associated with each version?

[georgie_leech]

It's a shame Lore Warden is already a Fighter Archetype.

[Vhaidara]

Oh, I like that idea. Maybe when you learn it, you choose an element. That's your base, and you can increase the DC from that to change it.

Also, I saw something about merging Litanies and Edicts earlier: I don't like that idea, at least from my memory of what is what. IIRC, Litanies are basically stances, vs edicts being the spells/maneuvers. That's a really big difference, honestly.

[Sayt]

I'm exploring the idea of making the Knight-Scholar / Warspeaker Charisma based instead. It seems like there is some demand for that, and it opens up the number of races that can excel at the system. Thoughts?

I have...complicated thoughts on making it Cha based. Intelligence makes a certain amount of intuitive sense for a supernatural system in which magic is based off of a grammar and diction, rather than convincingness. Furthermore, there are several fairly recent 'Charismartials' (I am never using that term again): the Swashbuckler, Daevic and Warlord, and while there weren't many (or any, really apart from a few Bard archetypes/builds and of course the Paladin, which I somehow almost forgot) before, it feels like the market is flooded a bit at the moment.

On the other hand, it does help to differentiate it from the Advocate, which is very... wizardly, in as much as it's the main truespeaker specialist, much as the wizard is the main arcane caster, and charisma is generally a relatively undervalued stat, but commonly receives racial bonuses

[stack]

Charisma does seem overused for martials (daevic, paladin, warlord, etc), but I suppose it depends on the fluff and focus as the class develops.

[Vhaidara]

I think Int martials are about as common Cha-martials. Warder, Harbinger, Inspired Blade Swashbuckler, Aegis. And Int is generally the best stat for a mental-independent martial, since it gets you Combat Expertise, the key to tax on being useful.

Also, Swashbuckler and Warlord are almost a year old. They'll be well over that by the time this gets released

[Milo v3]

How would the flavour work for non-int truenaming?

[Kaidinah]

How would the flavour work for non-int truenaming?

A logical speaker versus demagoguery? Thats the way I think of it.