Bleach D20

[KirosNessus]

hey i just found this thread and have read through the first 3 pages.... this is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have an idea for the warrior shinigami.... instead of having spells take a look at the book of the nine swords the maneuver and stance system might work better for a combat based character.

also my brother and i have been working out a few ideals for a system like this also but only for a few days... but we both agreed that adding new skills for hiding spirit pressure and overwhelming opponents with it is essential... adding it to disguise and sense motive seem to force an ability on people... ie. ichigo cant sense spirit pressure but that shouldn't mean he cant tell when someone is lying... also just because someone can put on a mask and pretend they are someone else doesnt mean they can hide their spirit pressure. doing those thing require skill and training and should be reflected by the purchase of specific skills. also when it comes to spirit pressure there is much more that can be done with it then just overwhelming opponents like when they focus on the cannon ball to create a shield to get into the serate in season 2.

you may have already touched on these things so sorry if i'm repeating someone else...


i will defiantly be using this system soon though and if any more ideals or input is needed i would love to help!!!!

[Primal Fury]

So wait...

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If Ichigo's Uber-Hollow form was just his Resurrección, I shutter to think what his Resurrección Segunda Etapa would be...

[DanteNessus]

hey all, Kiros's brother here. PLSE send me a e-mail of all of the updated rules to [email protected]. tried to download it myself and it wouldnt complete, not sure why. But I must say this whole thing is amazing. you all have outdone yourselves, and should be very proud. with the exception of a very few minor things i feel that this project has a very strong "anime" feel to it that serves strongly what you all were going for.

now, on to questions. one, how do you balance the two weapon fighting with transforming weapons into light weapons that still do full damage? seems OP'ed, but honestly i always try to break games and thats what I would do. Two, can you use any templetes from any core books? or is Hollow the only one? and as to Kenpachi, my favorite character, he does NOT have DR. DR is defined as being instantly regenerated or ignored, which is never the case with Kenpachi. I believe he feeds off the power of his sword without trying to, and has a weird ability like "gains 10 temporary hit points for every attack landed" this would cover his ability to be overly damaged and still survive, and allow him to still be killed by stronger opponents. I know that steps outside the range of DnD to a point, but I think it fits strongly with his attitude and his abilities.

thanks for the listen guys, and please continue to post. for those of us just starting this, you all could provide priceless feedback.

Thanks again

[Hurlbut]

Actually weak attacks never cut him. So DR is applicable here.

[DanteNessus]

Actually, thats because of his power level and weaker opponents, not DR. it doesnt apply

[ultima22689]

Actually, thats because of his power level and weaker opponents, not DR. it doesnt apply

Is it really? When Ichigo first meets Kenpachi he couldn't cut him until he put more power into his sword, I think that is a perfect example of DR. No offense but even though Kenpachi is pretty awesome doesn't mean we should stat him like he's god, he has his limits which have been shown in the show and manga.

[Dante & Vergil]

No offense but even though Kenpachi is pretty awesome doesn't mean we should stat him like he's god, he has his limits which have been shown in the show and manga.

Yeah, but his raw reiatsu w/o the 'patch is as strong, if not stronger (this is a maybe), than a bankai. He has to compete somehow.

[Krazddndfreek]

hey all, Kiros's brother here. PLSE send me a e-mail of all of the updated rules to [email protected]. tried to download it myself and it wouldnt complete, not sure why. But I must say this whole thing is amazing. you all have outdone yourselves, and should be very proud. with the exception of a very few minor things i feel that this project has a very strong "anime" feel to it that serves strongly what you all were going for.

now, on to questions. one, how do you balance the two weapon fighting with transforming weapons into light weapons that still do full damage? seems OP'ed, but honestly i always try to break games and thats what I would do. Two, can you use any templetes from any core books? or is Hollow the only one? and as to Kenpachi, my favorite character, he does NOT have DR. DR is defined as being instantly regenerated or ignored, which is never the case with Kenpachi. I believe he feeds off the power of his sword without trying to, and has a weird ability like "gains 10 temporary hit points for every attack landed" this would cover his ability to be overly damaged and still survive, and allow him to still be killed by stronger opponents. I know that steps outside the range of DnD to a point, but I think it fits strongly with his attitude and his abilities.

thanks for the listen guys, and please continue to post. for those of us just starting this, you all could provide priceless feedback.

Thanks again

Zaraki is a strange case, but I know for a fact, that his sword has nothing to do with his insane reiatsu. His sword is equivalent to a normal, mundane, sword, absolutely nothing special about it. Of course, its only because he doesn't know how to release it.

Reiatsu on the other hand has been shown to do crazy things like suppress wounds, heal them over time, and even block attacks, among other things. I don't want to see people get the misconception that Zaraki's ability comes from anything other than his own will-power, so if you have any complaints or further misconceptions, or your misconceptions have not yet been dispelled, then please, let us continue.

[DanteNessus]

Ok, let me say now that my idea for his stat is purely DnD, not actual for the anime.... maybe. DR is not applicable. Kenpachi is often seriously injured only to act like its nothing no matter how many blows he takes. and as to ichigo beating him, I ignore that completely for stats. it was purely a cinimatic thing, not actually possible at that lvl. for those who see later, you know what kenpachi is capable of even with the eyepatch. it was way beyond ichigos lvl, unless his sword's spirit boosted him alot more than it seemed. DR doesnt apply for the simple fact that his wounds do apply to his body, but dont affect him. neither would Regen or fast healing apply because his wounds dont disappear over time in a battle. as to ichigo not hurting him the first time and then managing to the next, well all I can say is most likely ichigo hadnt "powered up" enough to have any effect on kenpachi, who had much higher spiritual pressure.

but, as an amendment, this is my opinion based on whats in the show. fact is, all any of us can do is speculate, and I feel mine fits it best. but its cool if you dont.

Plus, as to someone saying not to make kenpachi so powerful, gaining 10 temp hit points per hit is actually somewhat weaker than fast healing 10, and alot weaker than regen 10. just saying.

[Hurlbut]

Dante: When Ichigo first met Zen, his early attacks never made a scratch on him at all and he DID land those attacks. They were just not cutting him at all.

[KirosNessus]

reiastu (or however you spell it) is the determining factor not DR.... there needs to be a better system for that where lower level characters with weak spirit pressure cant harm more powerful characters. the 10 temporary hit points makes alot of sense because Kenpachi revels in every blow he takes, he doesn't just ignore the damage,he ENJOYS being hit! but anyways the game should be fashioned around the norm for bleach not the rare cases like Kenpachi and ichigo, they break to many rules to make them right with-in the D20 system.

[Hurlbut]

And exactly why it can't be represented by DR which is damage reduction? More powerful attacks can get through the DR and the DR often come from MANY sources such as spells, the innate toughness of the barbarian, special materials and so on. Is it so hard to believe that "Reiastu" as a source can provide DR?

[Dante & Vergil]

reiastu (or however you spell it) is the determining factor not DR.... there needs to be a better system for that where lower level characters with weak spirit pressure cant harm more powerful characters. the 10 temporary hit points makes alot of sense because Kenpachi revels in every blow he takes, he doesn't just ignore the damage,he ENJOYS being hit! but anyways the game should be fashioned around the norm for bleach not the rare cases like Kenpachi and ichigo, they break to many rules to make them right with-in the D20 system.

Check the previous page.

[Athildur]

Ah, I'm still checking the thread, just don't have a lot to say about the system as I think a d20 system isn't the best way to approach a Bleach RPG. (Of course, that doesn't automatically mean that I think this RPG is bad. I just don't think stuff like the classical level-based system is any sort of way to deal with Bleach.)

And as such, I'm not as invested in keeping up with everything, and can't fully put it all into perspective, and thus can't always comment on stuff.

What I'm about to discuss (so you can scroll down in case you see something interesting, and don't want to read my huge post :P)

- Tousen's powers (E.g. Resureccíon and Zanpakutou/Shikai/Bankai)
- Kenpachi's mojo (E.g. Reiatsu and damage reduction)
- Reiatsu Burst (Using Action point/dice/whatever to increase reiatsu)
- Zanpakutou (Twin/Dual, Zanpakutou Ability system)


Tousen:

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- Tousen can use his shikai/bankai. He still has control over his zanpakutou as a zanpakutou (he uses Suzumushi's sonic powers to escape from Hisagi's chains, after all). But it does seem like he is a shinigami that has fully mastered his Hollow side as well as his Shinigami side. Meaning that he adds the power of a full-blown Vast Lord to his own.

I would theorize the following:

Resurreccíon is where an Arrancar (e.g. A Hollow that has learned to seal part of their power into a blade) releases its sealed power and reverts to his original, most powerful form.

But, when a Shinigami, who has bonded with a zanpakutou spirit and can call on its power, becomes a Vizard and masters his true inner Hollow as well, he can call on his own Resurreccíon, turning into the true form of his inner Hollow, with *all* the power it contains.

But it doesn't stop there. After all, a shinigami still has his zanpakutou spirit inside of his soul! I fully believe that a Shinigami turned Vizard can still call on his Zanpakutous powers while in Resurreccíon.

For example, if we assume that Ichigo transformed into his Resurreccíon form in his battle with Ulquiorra, then he was more powerful than Ulquiorra's Segunda Etapa because he was still using his bankai (as the shape of his zanpakutou tells us! After all, if a bankai stops, the zanpakutou will revert to its normal form, as a bankai is controlled and maintained from the zanpakutou itself!).

The manga and anime clearly show both zanpakutou and hollow to be entities within the character's own soul and own spirit world. It would not be strange to assume the person could call on both spirit entities to augment his own power.

Kenpachi:

I firmly believe he, much like Ichigo, is incompetent when it comes to controlling his own reiatsu. I think that due to his massive reiatsu, so much of it leaks out continually that it has a very physical effect.
He unknowingly has reiatsu flowing out at all times, enhancing his bodily strength, speed and endurance. I don't think his skin is truly hard and resistant to damage. I rather think that the constant outflow of spiritual energy, which becomes more dense the closer you get, gives some sort of 'drag' on objects, as it were. Nearby large reiatsu, it becomes difficult to move. So closeby a horrifically huge reiatsu, it would seem like a wall was present!
And this amount of reiatsu near his skin would literally stop attacks from impacting him.

In game terms, most people who learn to control their reiatsu may perhaps channel it into strength, speed or toughness/endurance.

People like Kenpachi, with no control over their reiatsu whatsoever, constantly leak it outward. They can never hide their reiatsu. They are incapable of using abilities that require more delicate control over their reiatsu, such as kidou. Quite possibly, part of their reiatsu pool is 'reserved' and unusable, as it is the part of the user's pool that constantly flows out, keeping the user from reaching his full energy, but instead giving some bonuses.

In return, they have increased strength/speed/endurance and some resistance to damage. They can't control the bonuses, and they are always active.

For example, Ichigo has a healthy amount of Reiatsu. But he doesn't have much in the area of damage resistance. What he does seem to have is some strength and an incredible ability to keep going when severely wounded.

I suppose one could argue that Ichigo should, by this logic, also have damage resistance, just as kenpachi does.

But: he does! He survives a lot of attacks that might have killed lesser shinigami, that alone proves the point. He is never seen as actually taking a hit and not even taking a scratch, but at the same time you should take into account that Ichigo faces enemies with big reiatsu most, if not all, of the time. Pit him against a lower-ranked shinigami and I'm pretty sure it would be the same.

Alternately, every shinigami and Hollow could have a simple Reiatsu Rating equal to their reiatsu pool, or some other way of calculation. Damage Resistance equal to the difference (or something), and if the DR exceeds the damage, any excess bleeds over to the attacker.


Reiatsu Burst:

Using action points/dice/whatever to increase reiatsu is a good idea. It simulates the ability of folks like Ichigo and Kenpachi to summon more energy at crucial times, which they seem to do a lot. But we don't really see other people doing it, so perhaps it is more something of a feat or special quality that comes with being awesome/retarded in the way of using spirit energy/whatever other reason one might think of.
Not something every shinigami or Hollow would be able to use.


Twin/Dual Zanpakutou:

I'm not sure it should be powered down. Using two weapons proficiently, the way Kyouraku, Ukitake and Hisagi do, would cost an inordinate amount of feats to reduce the two-weapon penalties enough.
I think that in itself is a pretty hefty penalty.

That is, if there are plenty of feats a shinigami or hollow can use that give them equally good advantages. After all, if picking two-weapon fighting feats over other feats is just as much because there are very few useful feats anyway, then this 'penalty' isn't very steep.

My personal opinion is still that, rather than giving players a number of shikai/bankai abilities, you create an extensive list of abilities and make them cost shikai/bankai points. Then give people a number of shikai/bankai points rather than a number of abilities.
Which means a shinigami could have a zanpakutou with multiple abilities that are less powerful, or only a few abilities with somewhat more power behind them.

e.g. Ichigo's Zangetsu (which is just big, and can shoot Getsuga Tenshou) vs. for example Hitsugaya (ice dragon projectile, a chain on his sword, the ability to control the weather, the ability to rain down ice petals on the target, his ability to freeze whatever he touches, Ryuusenka) or Rukia (Her three dances).

And Ichimaru Gin seems to have only one ability. The list goes on.

Of course, it would also imply the ability to upgrade an ability by spending more points and increasing one of its values (range, area, damage, etc).

But then, doing it in such a way would cost a lot of time to determine the relative strength of every ability, and makes it even more of a puzzle to build a zanpakutou, so maybe not.

[DanteNessus]

BTW, I just rewatched the ichigo Kenpachi battle again for fun. here is what kenpachi said after ichigo could not cut him...


*Quote*When two spirit forces butt heads, the one that pushes less gets hurt. thats it. basically, the spirit force I leak unconsciously is stronger than that sword you created by honing your spirit force to its peak in order to kill your enemy. its as simple as that.*Endquote*


I believe that is a forum post own. the show itself says almost exactly what I did. ichigo's reastiu is not strong enough to overcome kenpachis at the begining. thats the only reason the cut did not cut him. its not, again, DR. no reason to continue this at all.

anyhow, again, no hard feelings. you have the right to feel however you want. just please dont try to convince someone else without some kind of backup.

[Athildur]

When two spirit forces butt heads, the one that pushes less gets hurt. thats it. basically, the spirit force I leak unconsciously is stronger than that sword you created by honing your spirit force to its peak in order to kill your enemy. its as simple as that.*Endquote*

I believe that is a forum post own. the show itself says almost exactly what I did. ichigo's reastiu is not strong enough to overcome kenpachis at the begining. thats the only reason the cut did not cut him. its not, again, DR. no reason to continue this at all.

That sounds to me like it is DR. E.g. his resistance to damage, or the hardness he has, or the reiatsu he leaks, is higher than what Ichigo can throw at him.

Essentially, you could see it as (un)conscious reiatsu leakage grants a special type of Damage Resistance that is opposed by the reiatsu power of an incoming attack.

Or rather, a type of DR that an opponent can bypass, partially or entirely, by putting enough force/reiatsu behind his own swings.

[Dante & Vergil]

I swear, sometimes...
Have any of you guys checked my signature? In it are reiatsu rules that can do the things you are talking about. (Well, at least some of it as I skimmed, and to an alright degree... I hope.)

[Athildur]

I did. That does not automatically mean I'm done arguing about it :P.

Because quite clearly it's stated that kenpachi's defense is *only* so good because he unconsciously leaks reiatsu, because he, much like ichigo, has never learned to control his reiatsu in any real way.

Hence, this is not purely about whether someone's reiatsu is higher. Most shinigami, and most captains, even if they have reiatsu of high levels, still get hurt from cuts and the like, unlike kenpachi. And that's because they don't leak their reiatsu uncontrollably, but bolster it into gaining better speed, awareness, attack power or kidou.

So there you have it.

[Athildur]

The latest manga chapter sort of proves the point.

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There is NO way that Hisagi's reiatsu is anywhere near Tousen's, since Tousen is a captain-class shinigami in his Resurreccíon. Regardless, he can walk right up and stab him through the head. That would be because Tousen isn't diverting much of his energy for his defense. Hence, he's just as vulnerable as anyone.

As can be seen with almost any shinigami or Hollow (though to a lesser extent with Hollow, since most of them seem to be leaking reiatsu constantly, or at least continually applying it for defensive purposes such as Hierro), if they get hit by a surprise attack, it usually connects for painful damage. But when they're aware of the attacks, they can usually dodge or react in such a way as to minimize the damage. Be it through channeling reiatsu into speed for dodging, into an attack or weapon for blocking or deflecting, or into pure defensive power to mitigate the better part of the damage, in the end they apply the same means to a desirable end.

That's what I think, anyhow.

[Krazddndfreek]

Really, the whole idea of reiatsu acting like DR seems to have been forgotten by Kubo. Because the manga/anime used it a grand total of... once. As such, I really don't think it should be much of an issue. In essence, the manga proves nothing for itself.

Although, if you really feel you must incorporate it, I feel that action dice applied to reiatsu does this fairly well. It would make it so that, with effort, even a character who is 6 levels lower than another character could fight on par in terms of reiatsu score. This might need a little bit of nerfing to action dice, or even a system similar to 'Void's new project Valor.

Alternatively, the guy that's working on the other bleach system says that action dice as applied normally work pretty well for portraying heroic surges of willpower/reiatsu.

EDIT: Also, for the Zaraki case, DR + Obscenely large reserves of hp + Shocktrooper build covers being able to take so many hits and still stand. On the side, Zaraki only enjoys fighting because he's a freaking psychopath/adrenaline junkie/sadist.

EDIT EDIT: and just so you know, they aren't working on this at all anymore, except for Dante's valiant effort at tracking reiatsu. So no one really has the "finished product".

[ultima22689]

From what I have come to understand is that Dante is not just doing the reiatsu system and a general update to the void's version altogether, is that correct?

[Krazddndfreek]

I don't think so anymore... of course, I have been wrong before, but I'm pretty sure he isn't.

[ultima22689]

Well no matter, there will be updates to Bleach D20 regardless.

[ultima22689]

Hey folks, i've been working on an update to this with some friends for quite awhile now, it may have some balance issues so if you would it would be great if you all could help with that. A considerable amount of content has been added as well so please enjoy, it is up to date with the manga in terms of content, please comment, thanks.

With D&V permission when his reiatsu system is complete I would like it to be one with this work.

http://uploading.com/files/1md51f77/...ollection.pdf/

[Kindredsun]

Ok, quick rules question to any who have used Voids system. I have made a Shinigami spellcaster who has the constant release feat. Her Zanpakuto is of the Summon/Kidou type. The main thing is, she appears as a little girl, but her "Protector" is her zanpakuto. I wanted the summon to appear as a human, but my main question is, does a Summon have its own base attack score, or is it based off of the character? I know the rules state that the summon has the base abilities of the creature it represents, so I assume this means such creatures that have racial HD(like a lion for instance) gain an attack bonus. If her summon was based off of a Shinigami, would it have the attack bonus of one?

[Niro]

First things first... I love this thread
Second: I have a few black spots in the new pdf file which is kinda sad since I am a GM for a couple of friends. Am I the only one experiencing this?
Third: Shouldn't the espada prestige class be reworked? Since we now know their powers and such
Forth: Ummm this question requires the spoiler thingey.. How do you make that?

[atsumouri]

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you mean these its [+spoiler+] your text here [+/spoiler+] except for the + signs

and i gotta say i love this thread and i am having the issue with black spots on the pdf file as well

[Niro]

Thank you very much for the help about the hole spoiler thingey ^__^

about my 4th question...

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I don't know if it is just me... but I have come to the conclusion that the vizards apparently have a hollow form (Ichigo and Tousen so far). Shouldn't this be some sort of ability at lvl 10 or so? Maybe even later who knows

[Kindredsun]

Are you 2 talking about the pdf that Ultima22689 posted? I can't get that to download, the website its on keeps telling me the file no longer exists/was removed. Am I doing something wrong?

[Niro]

You can't dl it?
Weird, it works perfect for me. Just click the "free download" button and wait a minute