Bleach D20

[Kindredsun]

Nevermind, it just didn't want to work on the laptop, works fine on the pc

[ultima22689]

Ignore the black spots, i suck at editing so that's on my part, they will be removed eventually but they shouldn't hinder any text.


As for the espada class, it will be redone later, as I said this a work in progress.

As for your 4th, refer to the prestige classs right after Outcast, it's supposed to read Unleashed Vizard however it doesn't for some odd reason.

If you hadn't guessed the PrC simply labeled A is the Segunda Etapa class.

Since summons don't have classes they don't have a BAB, if you want your summon to appear human you will need Greater summon.

[Kindredsun]

Yes, this particular character has all the required abilities to have a humanoid summon. And just to quote your rules set

"Improved Ferocity: Either your summon's BAB increases by one step, to a maximum of full,
or it gains a secondary attack with damage a size below its primary attack that adds its
full strength to damage (secondary attacks suffer a -5 to attack). Either way, its
primary melee Ability improves by +2. This ability may be taken multiple times. Each time
it is taken, its BAB increases or it gains another secondary attack. Every two secondary
attacks use one lower die size then the previous two, and every secondary attack after
the second uses 1/2 the summon's strength. Each time it is taken, its primary melee
Ability improves by +2."

If a summon doesn't have a BAB, how does this rule work? Would I have to get this ability just to give my summon a measly +1 BAB, that seems kind of weak to me, given what Hyorinmaru can do.
Not trying to be snide, or rude, and I apologize if it sounds that way. Just wanted a little clarification, and if anyone else came up with a system for it.

[ultima22689]

Hmm, good point. Well I didn't make the summon type or the improvements on it. I could be wrong. I would imagine, with racial HD there are BAB's perhaps it refers to that.

Also, Hyorinmaru isn't a summon type.

[Kindredsun]

True, that in your system it is not a summon, but in Voids system it was, and that was which I was comparing it to, and that was the system my current DM is using. My Dm was suggesting that the summon of any creature type have a BAB=to the summoners character level(or Reiatsu rating), all other abilities and such remain the same as the rules state. Does that sound balanced?

[ultima22689]

True, that in your system it is not a summon, but in Voids system it was, and that was which I was comparing it to, and that was the system my current DM is using. My Dm was suggesting that the summon of any creature type have a BAB=to the summoners character level(or Reiatsu rating), all other abilities and such remain the same as the rules state. Does that sound balanced?

I suppose.

[Krazddndfreek]

Even in void's system Hyorinmaru would have been an Ice style zanpakuto. Not summon. It clearly had an ice blast attack, but never actually summoned anything. The bankai is a little tricky, especially since I haven't scrutinized the rules, but it would definitely grant a flyspeed and a much stronger ice attack, probably save or die.

Also, with regards to Improved Ferocity. That is actually a very powerful ability. Could be very broken. Either: 1) Increase BAB progression by one step (Bad-->Average-->Good) or 2) gives it an extra natural attack, which doesn't grant iterative attacks, but it gives a flat extra one. Sort of like having TWF but you can have as many weapons as you want and they all get -5 (or -2 with the multiattack feat). If you're going to go summon, the most optimal way to go would be get that ability a bunch of times and once you've gotten your BAB to Good, just keep adding natural attacks. This is because you can make one attack per natural attack per full attack action. This means, that if you had ten natural attacks, but only say, +4 BAB, then you'd get ten attacks at +2 + whatever other modifiers you have. In regular D&D this would be OMGHAX broken. Not sure about BleachD20 since I haven't actually tried the system, only discussed it in theory.

The only problem I see with it is the redundant wording.

I can't get to the pdf or worddoc right now on account of installation of a far more important program, but I think all zanpakuto are supposed to have a uniform HD. Meaning they're all the same at first. So most likely they all have bad bab and a fairly low HD. But again, I don't know because its been a while since I've actually looked at it.

You were right that they statted Hitsugaya's zanpakuto as summoning/ice, though I have no idea why. Projectile would have been the best way to go if anything. And for the summon itself, the rules state that the summon must be of the animal type. The animal in question could obviously be refluffed to just about anything you want, but that means that the zanpakuto has d8 HD, average BAB, good fort and will saves, and two SP + int per level (x4 at first).

[Niro]

I ahve gotten a new problem.
One of my players have created a hollow character and his DR is trough the roof. He combined all of the damage reducing feats with Hierro and.. well he is like a god. He keeps on increasing his strength so he can hit better and harder.
Are the hollow players supposed to get like.. 30-40 DR? Or have I just misread?

[Athildur]

Thank you very much for the help about the hole spoiler thingey ^__^

about my 4th question...

Spoiler

Show

I don't know if it is just me... but I have come to the conclusion that the vizards apparently have a hollow form (Ichigo and Tousen so far). Shouldn't this be some sort of ability at lvl 10 or so? Maybe even later who knows

Spoiler

Show

I'd say it's not something you automatically get. It has to do with the removal and release of the inner Hollow, allowing it to gain it's true, ultimate form if the user has enough power. Which, in the case of most vizard, shouldn't be a problem.

But Tousen, and I should presume Gin as well, have had Aizen use the Hougyoku on them, a powerful artifact that can destroy or remove barriers in the soul, or rather free the inner Hollow.

Ichigo has had a released Hollow from the start, mostly due to the treatment he got from Urahara, forcing his soul to transform into a Shinigami lest it become a Hollow. But it did, for a split second before his shinigami powers took over. Meaning that his inner Hollow is probably free.

When he got a hole punched through him, this probably paved the way for the inner Hollow to truly and completely manifest itself. In case of Tousen, he has simply learned to fully control his inner Hollow, which has complete free reign in terms of power because it's been released.

I think most Vizard don't have that luxury, and even if they did they would never allow their inner Hollow to consume them to become their true form, because it stands against everything they, as shinigami, stand for. Most likely.

But you could just merger the two. You know, houserule a resurreccíon for high-level vizard that have learned to do this. Until someone comes up with a good way to introduce it into the rules.

Hope that helps?

Edit: well...nevermind, apparently the point was moot -.-

[Kindredsun]

Even in void's system Hyorinmaru would have been an Ice style zanpakuto. Not summon. It clearly had an ice blast attack, but never actually summoned anything. The bankai is a little tricky, especially since I haven't scrutinized the rules, but it would definitely grant a flyspeed and a much stronger ice attack, probably save or die.

Also, with regards to Improved Ferocity. That is actually a very powerful ability. Could be very broken. Either: 1) Increase BAB progression by one step (Bad-->Average-->Good) or 2) gives it an extra natural attack, which doesn't grant iterative attacks, but it gives a flat extra one. Sort of like having TWF but you can have as many weapons as you want and they all get -5 (or -2 with the multiattack feat). If you're going to go summon, the most optimal way to go would be get that ability a bunch of times and once you've gotten your BAB to Good, just keep adding natural attacks. This is because you can make one attack per natural attack per full attack action. This means, that if you had ten natural attacks, but only say, +4 BAB, then you'd get ten attacks at +2 + whatever other modifiers you have. In regular D&D this would be OMGHAX broken. Not sure about BleachD20 since I haven't actually tried the system, only discussed it in theory.

The only problem I see with it is the redundant wording.

I can't get to the pdf or worddoc right now on account of installation of a far more important program, but I think all zanpakuto are supposed to have a uniform HD. Meaning they're all the same at first. So most likely they all have bad bab and a fairly low HD. But again, I don't know because its been a while since I've actually looked at it.

You were right that they statted Hitsugaya's zanpakuto as summoning/ice, though I have no idea why. Projectile would have been the best way to go if anything. And for the summon itself, the rules state that the summon must be of the animal type. The animal in question could obviously be refluffed to just about anything you want, but that means that the zanpakuto has d8 HD, average BAB, good fort and will saves, and two SP + int per level (x4 at first).

In regard to Hitsugaya, didn't he actualy summon the dragon in the movie The Diamond Dust Rebellion?
Also, with the Greater Summon ability you can change the summon type to a different creature(aka outsider, dragon, humanoid, ect, ect) which would change the BAB, saves, HD and skills drastically.

My Dm has decided that a BAB=to summoner lvl was decent, shared saves, since the Summon is the zanpakuto in some sense of the word, hp=1/5 of the summoners, ability scores of a typical creature of that type, modified by feats and/or special abilities from the zanpakuto. The creature retains its natural attacks, though its primary attack does zanpakuto damage, and all other rules stated in the Summon entry. Its defense bonus would be the same as the summoners, except it uses its own dexterity modifier.

[Kindredsun]

I ahve gotten a new problem.
One of my players have created a hollow character and his DR is trough the roof. He combined all of the damage reducing feats with Hierro and.. well he is like a god. He keeps on increasing his strength so he can hit better and harder.
Are the hollow players supposed to get like.. 30-40 DR? Or have I just misread?

A 30-40 DR? I assume it's a high level game then, and this player used all of his feats and hollow abilities to obtain the DR of something that high. Remember DR doesn't stop magical effects nor elemental damage(fire/acid/sonic/ice/electricity) It only applies to physical weapons. This hollow would do terrible against a kidou master lobbing spells from a great distance. Yeah, he's gonna kick butt in melee combat, but a Captain class shinigami with good kidou abilities coming to investigate this untouchable hollow would humble said player real quick.

[Athildur]

I ahve gotten a new problem.
One of my players have created a hollow character and his DR is trough the roof. He combined all of the damage reducing feats with Hierro and.. well he is like a god. He keeps on increasing his strength so he can hit better and harder.
Are the hollow players supposed to get like.. 30-40 DR? Or have I just misread?

What feats/abilities has he taken? Do they stack? Because generally, only your highest DR counts for reducing damage, they do not add up to one another for a grand total.

so unless a feat specifically mentions that it increases an existing DR, it won't stack at all.

[Kindredsun]

What feats/abilities has he taken? Do they stack? Because generally, only your highest DR counts for reducing damage, they do not add up to one another for a grand total.

so unless a feat specifically mentions that it increases an existing DR, it won't stack at all.

The feats and hollow abilites that apply to DR do stack, but they cannot have more then one type, like DR 4/- and DR 2/adamantine. It would all have to be DR X/- since that is what the Paragon Hollow gets at 1st
Going by the numbers and not including prestige classes, a Paragon hollow with all Hollow abilities and all feats spent on DR would cap at DR 39 at 20th lvl. As impressive as that is, that seems a total waste to me. Most shinigami have at least one elemental type when their zanpakuto is released, let alone kidou. This Hollow character is sadly under par compared to others of his level, who more then likely have a variety of abilities, even a cero or 2. This particular character has almost no feats or hollow abilities towards defensive abilites(like evasion or mettle) and could be dealt with rather easily if he got out of control in a game. As a DM in the past, this isn't too much of an issue for myself, as my gaming group tends to min/max alot and I have had to come up with creative ways to handle them before they went overboard. This case is much more simple for you to handle though, as all that DR does squat against a fireball, or even better, a spellblast from a Kidou type zanpakuto which is far more effective on the spell point vs damage ratio, toss in moon blast for a boost in damage. A character with Bankai and spellblast would devastate (1d6/cl, would become 2d6+another 2d6 from moonblast being doubled, dealing 4d6 force damage/caster level up to 3<or 6 if all numerics are doubled in bankai> x the spell level cast in bankai), a cheap 3rd lvl kidou would deal 36d6 force damage, even a 1st lvl kidou would be enough at 12d6 force damage to make anyone pause.

[ultima22689]

A hollow with DR that high is indeed an example of min maxing, this system can definitely be abused like any other system. Without using Segunda Etapa DR should be lower but it's no big deal, it's not gamebreaking and his character could likely be handled quite easily.

As for Improved Ferocity, I may adjust it as that is potentially game breaking, however in Bleach D20 bloated numbers like that aren't a problem, the damage people will be doing will be high as all get up so i'll see where it goes.

[Kindredsun]

A hollow with DR that high is indeed an example of min maxing, this system can definitely be abused like any other system. Without using Segunda Etapa DR should be lower but it's no big deal, it's not gamebreaking and his character could likely be handled quite easily.

As for Improved Ferocity, I may adjust it as that is potentially game breaking, however in Bleach D20 bloated numbers like that aren't a problem, the damage people will be doing will be high as all get up so i'll see where it goes.

I don't think Improved Ferocity has to be adjusted so much as reworded. The attack increase I took as a +1 to its BAB which isn't game breaking in the least. The +2 to a combat stat(Str/Dex) isn't to bad when you think of how fragile the summon is. At max hp with no con bonus a Warrior shinigami at 10th level is 120, its summon would have 24 hp, not alot of staying power if you ask me, which makes the ability much more worthwhile if my summon can hit that much harder in the short time it may have once combat happens.

[ultima22689]

I don't think Improved Ferocity has to be adjusted so much as reworded. The attack increase I took as a +1 to its BAB which isn't game breaking in the least. The +2 to a combat stat(Str/Dex) isn't to bad when you think of how fragile the summon is. At max hp with no con bonus a Warrior shinigami at 10th level is 120, its summon would have 24 hp, not alot of staying power if you ask me, which makes the ability much more worthwhile if my summon can hit that much harder in the short time it may have once combat happens.

This is true but a summon can be re summoned with little effort in the same encounter if it is destroyed but like I said, let's see how it plays out IC.

Now I wish someone would do a PBP or use IRC and host a game. I would myself but ironically i'm a terrible GM.

[Kindredsun]

This is true but a summon can be re summoned with little effort in the same encounter if it is destroyed but like I said, let's see how it plays out IC.

Now I wish someone would do a PBP or use IRC and host a game. I would myself but ironically i'm a terrible GM.

Very true on the resummon, but you would have to acquire the ability multiple times for it to be truely over powered, and there is a limit on how many times you can gain the same power in regard to character level.
My current DM has given me my answer for now and I have something to go on with the summon. We are supposed to play this evening, and I'll post on how well(or not well) what he came up with works in the scheme of things. On paper it isn't too bad( a little squishy) but we will see.

[ultima22689]

I'm interested to see the results.

[atsumouri]

quick question about the pdf it says find the materialization list but i couldnt find anything on it is it mia or something?

[Kindredsun]

quick question about the pdf it says find the materialization list but i couldnt find anything on it is it mia or something?

Alot of the pdf stuff is based off of Behold The Voids rules. The kidou and materialization stuff can be found there. Here is the link to those rules http://professor.fireandrobot.com/Bl...ompilation.doc

[ultima22689]

Yes, much of this based on Void's. I need to clean up the PDF alot and will do so soon.

I think I'm going to nerf Twin Zanpakuto Mastery by changing the progression steps so that after level 3 they would get their next set of abilities after those who use a single blade. With the old version it would be fine but now that shingami gain an ability per type thus 2 abilities every increase it means TZM users gain 4 per increase, thoughts?

[atsumouri]

i must be blind i still dont see the Materialization Ability list for the MATERIALIZATION SPIRITUALLY-AWAKENED HUMAN. maybe i need to look harder lol

[Kindredsun]

No, you are not blind. My bad, I thought I saw a list in there for materialization, but was mistaken, it was augments. From what I gather after re-reading the threads, they were working on some of the classes still, then it bounced around between a few people and just slipped through the cracks somewhere down the line. If you are hard pressed and need the abilities, I would suggest using the shikai abilities that closely resemble the ability. I know its not exactly what you wanted, but its the best I can offer with whats available.

[Kindredsun]

Yes, much of this based on Void's. I need to clean up the PDF alot and will do so soon.

I think I'm going to nerf Twin Zanpakuto Mastery by changing the progression steps so that after level 3 they would get their next set of abilities after those who use a single blade. With the old version it would be fine but now that shingami gain an ability per type thus 2 abilities every increase it means TZM users gain 4 per increase, thoughts?

I think the 2 abilities per increase is overpowered, especially when it comes to the Twin Zanpakuto Mastery. But, since you are weilding 2 blades and 2 of those bonus abilities have to go to the primary blade and the other 2 to the secondary blade it isn't so bad. I'm just used to using the other rules set, and seeing the abilities double in amount from that just seems overkill to me, especially when Bankai is obtained.

[ultima22689]

I think the 2 abilities per increase is overpowered, especially when it comes to the Twin Zanpakuto Mastery. But, since you are weilding 2 blades and 2 of those bonus abilities have to go to the primary blade and the other 2 to the secondary blade it isn't so bad. I'm just used to using the other rules set, and seeing the abilities double in amount from that just seems overkill to me, especially when Bankai is obtained.

Indeed, it was done to be in proportion to the new Hollow class and it made sense that each type would grow as a zanpakuto increases in strength. I need to clarify though.

You can only choose 1 ability per type thus let's say you have a fire and lightning type zanpakuto, you can't get get crackling blade and then get improved crackling blade the same level, the way it works out makes it tons more balanced, the only type free of this restriction is generic type abilities. Before the week is over i'll post a cleaned up version and i'll get to work on something unique for the materialization class.

[atsumouri]

i have noticed through some testing of the games function that the holow template is verry powerfull. it easilly ups the cr of a creture by a lot. now with that said why does the kido and the expert do same base damage? shouldnt it be d4 kido d6 expert d8 worrior? or is there a reason the kido is just as physicly powerfull as the expert?

[Athildur]

One should think, since they all use the same basic weapon, that the basic damage is also the same. The warrior would perhaps deal more damage after he gains more feats, abilities, talents and whatnot.

[atsumouri]

ok i guess that makes sense but with the holow template making things stronger my players had 1 major complaint and that was 1d4 for damage seems kinda lacking lol. so i figured i'd ask around to see if there was a reason to it cause in d&d a sword isnt a d4 but it makers sense. lol they havent gotten to shikai yet so i think things will even up there lol. im running a test version of this cause im curious as to how it will play out and i figured you guys coud always use more input after all how is it suposed to evolve if theres no input. :p

[Kindredsun]

Well, since the Kidou and Expert shinigami gain alot more on the spells then does the Warrior, I think it makes up for the lack of damage they cause with the zanpakuto, and justifies the varying damage between the 3 classes. The Paragon Hollow class I wouldn't use as a basis for typical encounters, since they are above the rest of the rabble of hollows and have the potential to evolve into arrancar which makes it more ideal for a PC class or a major villian. In the campaign I am in now, we are using the Reiatsu rules Dante came up with, but not the whole set, just the starting reiatsu and zanpakuto progression with the abilities gained at x reiatsu. We are still 1st level but have battled several hollows(we have a party of 4 trainee shinigami) and the 1d4 starting damage wasn't even that critical(it's really no worse then playing a wizard or a rogue in 3.5 DnD).
Also, from what we have noticed, adding the Hollow Template to the Paragon Hollow class is overkill and probably not what was intended originally in the rules. I would use the template to transform typical DnD creatures into hollows( like a goblin for instance, now you have a perfectly suitable pre-created monster with a few hollow abilities just for your low level shinigami to smite)

[ultima22689]

Well, since the Kidou and Expert shinigami gain alot more on the spells then does the Warrior, I think it makes up for the lack of damage they cause with the zanpakuto, and justifies the varying damage between the 3 classes. The Paragon Hollow class I wouldn't use as a basis for typical encounters, since they are above the rest of the rabble of hollows and have the potential to evolve into arrancar which makes it more ideal for a PC class or a major villian. In the campaign I am in now, we are using the Reiatsu rules Dante came up with, but not the whole set, just the starting reiatsu and zanpakuto progression with the abilities gained at x reiatsu. We are still 1st level but have battled several hollows(we have a party of 4 trainee shinigami) and the 1d4 starting damage wasn't even that critical(it's really no worse then playing a wizard or a rogue in 3.5 DnD).
Also, from what we have noticed, adding the Hollow Template to the Paragon Hollow class is overkill and probably not what was intended originally in the rules. I would use the template to transform typical DnD creatures into hollows( like a goblin for instance, now you have a perfectly suitable pre-created monster with a few hollow abilities just for your low level shinigami to smite)

Yeah, do not apply the hollow template to the Hollow PC class, not intended. That would be overkill indeed.