Hearthstone 9: I dream and the forums tremble.

[Thrawn183]

Playing against hunter makes me not feel at all bad about a Turn 4 Voidcaller > Turn 5 free Doomguard > Faceless. I have a good feeling about this arena run.

On a wholly different note, am I the only one that thinks Shrinkmeister is going to radically decrease how often we see Cairne, Ysera and Malygos?

[Gray Mage]

Playing against hunter makes me not feel at all bad about a Turn 4 Voidcaller > Turn 5 free Doomguard > Faceless. I have a good feeling about this arena run.

On a wholly different note, am I the only one that thinks Shrinkmeister is going to radically decrease how often we see Cairne, Ysera and Malygos?

Not really, no, at least not radically. It'll only affect one matchup (against priest). While it means priest now have a good answer against them (still needs two cards in hand), I don't think it'll be that relevant in deck making (mostly in how it is played). Cairne, particulary, can be played turn 6 while for the steal to happen the priest needs 8 mana.

[Murmaider]

On a wholly different note, am I the only one that thinks Shrinkmeister is going to radically decrease how often we see Cairne, Ysera and Malygos?

Probably. Piloted Sky Golem can take cairne's place and Ysera could be replaced by Sneed's Old Shredder.

[Avaris]

Time for another round of 'I haven't got a clue how to play Arena!'

Spoiler

Show

Shaman/Priest/Hunter

Blood Knight / Echoing Ooze / Cabal Shadow Priest
Thoughtsteal / Power word: Shield / Dancing Swords
Earthen Ring Farseer / Dark Cultist / Haunted Creeper
Reckless Rocketeer / Circle of Healing / Silvermoon Guardian
Stormwind Champion / Gnomish Inventor / Mad Bomber
Booty Bay Bodyguard / Stranglethorn Tiger / Thrallmar Farseer
Lightspawn / Undertaker / Gurubashi Berserker
Stoneskin Gargoyle / Chillwind Yeti / Mind Vision
Spellbreaker / Ancient Brewmaster / Inner Fire
Gadgetzan Auctioneer / Coldlight Oracle / Lightwell
Temple Enforcer / Flesheating Ghoul / Holy Smite
Mass Dispel / Auchenai Soulpriest / Mana Addict
Stonetusk Boar / Thoughtsteal / Ogre Magi
Tauren Warrior / Stormwind Knight / Dark Cultist
Ancient Brewmaster / Holy Smite / Windfury Harpy
Loot Hoarder / Dread Corsair / Temple Enforcer
Magma Rager / Haunted Creeper / Fen Creeper
Youthful Brewmaster / Holy Smite / Shadow Word: Death
Dark Cultist / Darkscale Healer / Spectral Knight
Twilight Drake / Bloodsail Corsair / Secretkeeper
Young Dragonhawk / Goldshire Footman / Power Word: Shield
Bloodfen Raptor / Youthful Brewmaster / Frost Elemental
Stonetusk Boar / Mind Blast / Raid Leader
Southsea Deckhand / Reckless Rocketeer / Stormwind Knight
Ogre Magi / Scarlet Crusader / Frost Elemental
Gurubashi Berserker / Bluegill Warrior / Silver Hand Knight
Silverback Patriarch / Shadow word: Pain / Mind Vision
Frost Elemental / Mind Blast / Holy Nova
Mind Vision / Power Word: Shield / Earthen Ring Farseer
Azure Drake / Questing Adventurer / Deathlord

[Thialfi]

Probably. Piloted Sky Golem can take cairne's place and Ysera could be replaced by Sneed's Old Shredder.

Does it put two Cabal Shadow Priests in standard priest decks?

[CantigThimble]

The only pick I would consider incorrect in your draft Avaris was the lightwell over the Gadgetzan Auctioneer. Lightwell is kinda a nothing card in arena, maybe you get 2/3 hero powers worth of value but it isn't going to trade for anything. Gadgetzan, at worst is a 4/4 for 5 like Frostwolf warlord, and with 1 excellent combo card already and that early in the draft where you can prioritize more power words/shadow words, it seems like the pick to me. Otherwise, good decisions.

[Murmaider]

Does it put two Cabal Shadow Priests in standard priest decks?

I don't think there will be such a thing as 'standard' priest. With the new cards there will most certainly be a wider variety of decks than there is right now. Some decks will run more Shadow Madness, some will probably run more Shadow Word: Pain and some will run more Cabal Shadow Priests. I could even see Mind Control being tossed with the rise of the Shrinkmeister.

[ex cathedra]

Does it put two Cabal Shadow Priests in standard priest decks?

aren't two CSPs are already in standard priest decks? i'm certain that they see play in the midrange under-taker focused lists, i wouldn't be surprised if they were in the wild pyromancer control lists

[Gray Mage]

Most priest decks I see around in my rank of play and on streams only run one Cabal, although this could change with the Shrinker (I don't think I'll increase the number of Cabal/Shadow Madness after the expansion, they're usefull cards for sure, but I think putting more than one would make matchups against controll too weak by taking out key cards, although your mileage could vary).

[Avaris]

The only pick I would consider incorrect in your draft Avaris was the lightwell over the Gadgetzan Auctioneer. Lightwell is kinda a nothing card in arena, maybe you get 2/3 hero powers worth of value but it isn't going to trade for anything. Gadgetzan, at worst is a 4/4 for 5 like Frostwolf warlord, and with 1 excellent combo card already and that early in the draft where you can prioritize more power words/shadow words, it seems like the pick to me. Otherwise, good decisions.

Inclined to agree: made the choice as at the time there was only the one spell, but auctioneer still better.

Went 2-3, so pretty poor! Got 2 gold cards out of prize pack though, so not a complete waste

[otakuryoga]

latest reveal

Spoiler

Show

[Gray Mage]

Spoiler

Show

A new Paladin weapon, I see. Looks decent/good-ish in Arena (it's a Stormforged Axe with the overload built in plus an effect), but I don't see much use in Constructed.

[Gandariel]

I said the Hunter cycle card is good because it can't be bad. It is either an Innervate that cantrips (which is crazy good)(very rare), a 2-mana cycle (bad) or something in between, like a 0-mana cycle. So, definitely not a bad card (at least it replaces itself) and helps thin the deck.
I said, though, that I don't know if it'll find place in Hunter decks, since also Tracking and Flare do similar things and theyre both really good cards.

Muster for combat has nothing to do with it. And I stay by the idea that it's a weak card. And it's best ability is to combo with Sword of Justice and waste 2/5 of it for a mediocre effect.


@New card: looks... good, actually. The shield means it can provide a massive board swing. (Attack with your shielded dude and worth your weapon, kill 2 things and nothing on your side dies) and the taunt is always useful. Also makes your dude hard to bypass for aggro (since it needs two shots)

Like the card! Not op by any means, but a welcome sight in Arena and possibly a 1-of in Midrange paladin (if it will exist)

Anyway, arena comment time.
A few comments for you:

Time for another round of 'I haven't got a clue how to play Arena!'

Spoiler

Show

Shaman/Priest/Hunter


Reckless Rocketeer / Circle of Healing / Silvermoon Guardian
Stormwind Champion / Gnomish Inventor / Mad Bomber

Both these two picks are "questionable, but acceptable". I'm not going to say you made a mistake, but I would have taken Silvermoon and Gnomish.

Gadgetzan Auctioneer / Coldlight Oracle / Lightwell
Light well is terrible, Gadgetzan is a body at least, with potentially awesome upside.


Loot Hoarder / Dread Corsair / Temple Enforcer
Didn't check your mana curve: Loot hoarder would have been Ok if you had too many lategamem

Magma Rager / Haunted Creeper / Fen Creeper
I disagree with this pick, Creeper is much better than Creeper.
Huh.
I meant, Haunted is way better than Fen.


Dark Cultist / Darkscale Healer / Spectral Knight
You never have too many Dark Cultists. And Spectral Knight is good, but not amazing in Arena.

Southsea Deckhand / Reckless Rocketeer / Stormwind Knight
You already have one rocketeer. Knight was a better pick here.

[ex cathedra]

i'm pretty confident that muster for battle is a lot better without sword of justice than it is with it, and that it's incomparably superior to the hunter card

I said the Hunter cycle card is good because it can't be bad. It is either an Innervate that cantrips (which is crazy good)(very rare), a 2-mana cycle (bad) or something in between, like a 0-mana cycle. So, definitely not a bad card (at least it replaces itself) and helps thin the deck.

emphasis mine. the hunter card looks pretty mediocre.

[Joran]

emphasis mine. the hunter card looks pretty mediocre.

As someone who likes to play beast hunters, there aren't not many good beasts above 3 cost, so unless GvG brings in some more beasts, I don't think I'd play the card.

The dream is obviously Highmane, maybe Stampeding Kodo, maybe Tiger, but other than that all the 4+ cost beasts are lackluster.

[ex cathedra]

call pet is the sort of card, in the current game, that has much more potential in niche arena drafts than it does in constructed beast decks. even if running high-end beasts other than highmane and maybe kodo/king krush (in some sort of future-patch fantasy land where anyone did that) didn't notably diminish the average card quality of your deck, the fact that many of the strongest beast tribal cards are, in fact, not even beasts makes call pet even worse. you're not going to fill your deck with trash like oasis snapjaw and stranglethorn tiger for synergy with two specific cards out of your 30 and then not run legitimately viable cards like kill command, animal companion, and houndmaster, right? the potential upside is too low and the average case is too weak to justify this card within the current card pool, and i suspect that will be true of the GvG-era card pool as well.

there might be enough targets to potentially legitimize this sort of card in the future, but it'll also have more competition as weaker cards are phased out by new additions.

[Thrawn183]

Spoiler

Show

A new Paladin weapon, I see. Looks decent/good-ish in Arena (it's a Stormforged Axe with the overload built in plus an effect), but I don't see much use in Constructed.

I have to disagree,

Spoiler

Show

This thing with Ancient Watcher basically stops aggro decks cold.

[Gray Mage]

I have to disagree,

Spoiler

Show

This thing with Ancient Watcher basically stops aggro decks cold.

Spoiler

Show

Ohh, that's a good use. Yeah, I can see it now.

[Infernally Clay]

latest reveal

Spoiler

Show

Oh wow. That is an amazing card. Early game it's not too great unless you're up against a Zoo deck or something but as a late game buff in Control Paladin, that's incredible. The Battlecry is obviously what you're gunning for since the weapon itself isn't as useful (although that's not to say it can't kill something the turn it's played), but Taunt and Divine Shield on a minion? The only thing letting the card down is the random target, because otherwise it'd be waaaaaaaaaaay better value than even Argent Protector.

[Zevox]

I think you may be underestimating Mech-Bear-Cat a little, but we'll see what happens when the game comes out.

Perhaps. Or perhaps I'm overselling my position. I don't think Mech-Bear-Cat is a bad card, just not as good as the other strong 6-drops we already have, or nearly as good as Piloted Sky Golem. So I don't think it'll see much play in constructed, at least not unless some very different kinds of Druid decks than we have now arise that have special reasons for using it over the alternatives. In arena I'd say it's strong, but arena is an afterthought at best for me when analyzing cards.

latest reveal

Spoiler

Show

Wait, is that a neutral weapon card?

[Draken]

latest reveal

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

A new Paladin weapon, I see. Looks decent/good-ish in Arena (it's a Stormforged Axe with the overload built in plus an effect), but I don't see much use in Constructed.

Wait, is that a neutral weapon card?

As Gray Mage said, the color of the text frame says it is paladin.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

As Gray Mage said, the color of the text frame says it is paladin.

Have I just not been paying attention? I don't remember class cards being that indistinct from neutrals.

[Ionbound]

I think it can be inferred fairly easily. It's a weapon, which means it's likely either a warrior, rogue, paladin, or shaman card, assuming it doesn't break precedent, and it's also a hammer, which is traditionally paladinish (with one notable exception).

[Forbiddenwar]

Is this new card old news?http://www.pcgamer.com/hearthstone-c...l-iron-sensei/

And I thought rogues were scary before..

[ex cathedra]

i mean, it's SSC with

• pro: +2/2 instead of +1/1
• pro: proc recurs
• con: -1 attack
• con: rogue-specific
• con: random targeting
• con: tribal-only

which seems pretty balanced to me. 2/2s don't tend to survive for a particularly long amount of time, and if these sort of cards become more common they'll encounter even more cheap removal.

[Anxe]

Hey Blizzard! We're still waiting on the anti-mech cards!

[Forbiddenwar]

i mean, it's SSC with

• pro: +2/2 instead of +1/1
• pro: proc recurs
• con: -1 attack
• con: rogue-specific
• con: random targeting
• con: tribal-only

which seems pretty balanced to me. 2/2s don't tend to survive for a particularly long amount of time, and if these sort of cards become more common they'll encounter even more cheap removal.

True. When I first read the article I thought it was a 3/3, which would have been seriously op. But is tribal only or random target really a con? Between the two it seems really easy to cause it to target exactly what you want. Unless you are planning to have 3 or more mechs out the sane time. Also pro only friendly units. Which makes it a 4/4 for 3 immediately and the potential for much more.

[Destro_Yersul]

Today it occured to me the best way to explain why muster for battle is good: Because it effectively gives you Hero Power x3 + Light's Justice, which would otherwise cost 7 mana and a card. The paladin hero power effectively makes wisps, which are worth 1/2 a card, ish. Wisp is bad because it is worth 1/2 a card but costs 1 card. Light's Justice is bad because it doesn't kill much of anything by itself. Light's Justice + Wisp x3 for one card is good, because it trades well against 3/2's and is likely to cost your opponent more mana to kill than it cost you to cast.

EDIT: 12/0 dream dashed at 11 wins. So sad. Went 12/1, but the deck was really good. I had 2 each of Fireball, Frostbolt and Water Elemental, plus one-offs of sea giant, pyroblast, polymorph and BGH. So many games were won with 10 damage to the face.

[Gandariel]

Muster for battle is decent (i dare say almost good) against aggro.

super totheface aggro decks do have some 1-health minions you can pick off with it. And mind you, you can only use the recruits for it: against that kind of aggro, weapons are almost useless as you need to preserve your HP.
Still, 3 1/1s can do some neat trading if you opponent doesn't play smart and just goes for face every time.

but moving on.

still on the aggro side, but sturdier, there's Deathrattle Zoo. Almost no 1-health guys, plenty of buffs and taunts: Voidwalker, Nerubian Egg, undertaker buffs, massive juggles. AND you still kinda have to avoid hitting too much with the weapon.

Still not really terrible, at least you're putting out bodies. but another 3-drop would arguably be better: I'd much rather play Spider Tank over this card against a zoo.

Moving on to the midrange, and then the control, the card becomes worse and worse.

Any kind of taunt usually walls this card, as does random aoe (whirlwind effects, pyromancer procs).

Rogue, Druid and Mage can just ping your stuff (which is not as bad as people say, you're slowing them down at least).

All in all it's decent against aggro, bad everywhere else.

Another thing is, current paladin decks can't support it.
There's no real mirange paladin list. Group buffs are either bad (Raid Leader) or class-locked (Power of the Wild).

I suppose with the right kind of support this may work in a midrange deck (incidentally, in the card creation challenge i made a 2/4 3-drop for paladin with "silver hand recruits gain +1/+1") (and actually another one, same cost &stats with "whenever a recruit DIES, draw a card"). but right now, it doesn't work IMO.

[Gray Mage]

I wouldn't even say it's good against aggro. Aggro'll havê a 1, 2 and 3 drops and nowadays with undertaker and zombie chow you're not even sure you can kill the one drop. The one damage weapon is not good as well.