Hearthstone 9: I dream and the forums tremble.

[Zevox]

Antique Healbot is a 2 mana 3/3 with Battlecry: Draw and Play healing touch on yourself. General rule in Arena is that any time you take a card and staple another card to it, that card is good.

Generally, yes, but in this case I don't think that follows, at least for arena's purposes. Most of the time, healing in arena is of little to no use, so Antique Healbot will just be a 3/3 for 5, which is pretty bad. As weak as Cobalt Guardian is, I think it'd be a better pick in general - same cost, double the attack, no less health, and its effect is probably at least a bit more likely to actually come into play.

Not that you could ever have to pick between them, since Cobalt Guardian is a rare and Antique Healbot is a common, but still.

[Destro_Yersul]

Generally, yes, but in this case I don't think that follows, at least for arena's purposes. Most of the time, healing in arena is of little to no use, so Antique Healbot will just be a 3/3 for 5, which is pretty bad. As weak as Cobalt Guardian is, I think it'd be a better pick in general - same cost, double the attack, no less health, and its effect is probably at least a bit more likely to actually come into play.

Not that you could ever have to pick between them, since Cobalt Guardian is a rare and Antique Healbot is a common, but still.

Most of the time, Healing in Arena doesn't come stapled to a minion.

[Gandariel]

Of course I agree with Zevox. Temple Enforcer is OK, but I wouldn't pick him over Cairne, Sylvanas or other powerhouses...

And frankly it's not even that much better than Boulderfist ogre.
Pretty sure that people will just keep not playing him in constructed.

Upgraded repair bot looks better because:
- better benefit
- lower cost (with scaled stats)
- less competition for his slot
- mech-specific isn't an issue in Constructed.

Still we can't know if it will actually work, but it definitely has a better chance than Temple Enforcer.


Also, recently opened King Mukla. Now to try Druid Mill!

[Infernally Clay]

Wow. The amount of praise you guys keep heaping into Piloted Sky Golem is insane. I guess it'll be replacing Cairne now, if it's really the best card in the game. How anyone can rate something with four health so highly, I have no idea. Things that cost much less than six mana can kill it, like Swipe or Truesilver Champion or Eviscerate (etc etc etc), and there's no guarantee you'll get anything decent out of it. There are a lot of four cost minions and not all of them are good. You're as likely to get Dread Corsair or Gnomish Inventor as you are Sen'jin Shieldmasta or Chillwind Yeti.

And I'm sorry but all this trying to convince me that Upgraded Repairbot is better than "okay" isn't going to work when, as we've already covered, it's only good in a specific deck type we don't even know the viability of yet. If Priest Mech becomes the next Zoo and Upgraded Repairbot is a major part of that, I might change my mind... Until then, Temple Enforcer has the stats and the versatility to be the better card.

[ex cathedra]

Wow. The amount of praise you guys keep heaping into Piloted Sky Golem is insane. I guess it'll be replacing Cairne now, if it's really the best card in the game. How anyone can rate something with four health so highly, I have no idea. Things that cost much less than six mana can kill it, like Swipe or Truesilver Champion or Eviscerate (etc etc etc), and there's no guarantee you'll get anything decent out of it. There are a lot of four cost minions and not all of them are good. You're as likely to get Dread Corsair or Gnomish Inventor as you are Sen'jin Shieldmasta or Chillwind Yeti.

would you believe me if i told you that cards like dread corsair and even gnomish inventor become substantially better if they're free?

the fact that it dies to truesilver doesn't seem so relevant in a meta in which paladin is nonexistent. that said, i don't think that 4 health is that big of a liability but neither do i think that PSG is the best card revealed.

And I'm sorry but all this trying to convince me that Upgraded Repairbot is better than "okay" isn't going to work when, as we've already covered, it's only good in a specific deck type we don't even know the viability of yet. If Priest Mech becomes the next Zoo and Upgraded Repairbot is a major part of that, I might change my mind... Until then, Temple Enforcer has the stats and the versatility to be the better card.

the difference is that temple enforcer clearly has zero potential to be viable. the difference between 5 and 6 mana is pretty immense, too, and 5/5s for 5 have more potential to be good than 6/6s for 6 due to the relative disparity in card competition at those mana costs. i don't have high hopes for the card but your analysis of it versus temple enforcer seems all wrong to me.

[Gray Mage]

would you believe me if i told you that cards like dread corsair and even gnomish inventor become substantially better if they're free?

Gnomish Inventor for free is pretty rubbish, as I doubt you'll get the battlecry.

[ex cathedra]

Gnomish Inventor for free is pretty rubbish, as I doubt you'll get the battlecry.

of course you don't, but i think you're undervaluing 0 mana 2/4s

[Gandariel]

Yeah. I think piloted thing is worse than Cairne, but still pretty good, and definitely one of the best of the set for now.

5/5 for 5 is MUCH better than 6/6 for 6. There are less good 5- drops (Belcher and Loatheb, essentially), and not every deck can afford to use many expensive cards.

[Gray Mage]

of course you don't, but i think you're undervaluing 0 mana 2/4s

It's not really free. You overpay it first and it's entirely possible that what you get back isn't worth it, it's a risk. Mind you, I think it's a good card, but let's be realistic.

[Zevox]

Wow. The amount of praise you guys keep heaping into Piloted Sky Golem is insane. I guess it'll be replacing Cairne now, if it's really the best card in the game.

Nobody said that it's the best card in the game. The most was me saying that it's one of the best cards revealed from the new set, which I think is wholly accurate. It is comparable to Cairne, however, much as Savannah Highmane is comparable to Cairne. In a mech deck it may very well be run over Cairne, and in non-Mech decks it may be run in addition to him, or possibly even over him depending on the deck and the meta.

How anyone can rate something with four health so highly, I have no idea.

Because health isn't everything, and what it has in other areas is plenty to make up for it.

Things that cost much less than six mana can kill it, like Swipe or Truesilver Champion or Eviscerate (etc etc etc), and there's no guarantee you'll get anything decent out of it. There are a lot of four cost minions and not all of them are good. You're as likely to get Dread Corsair or Gnomish Inventor as you are Sen'jin Shieldmasta or Chillwind Yeti.

And even if you get one of those, it's still a more powerful token being left behind than any other deathrattle minion besides Cairne (or arguably Highmane) leaves. And Shieldmasta and Yeti aren't even the best-case scenarios, either: Pit Lord, Water Elemental, or the new Piloted Shredder can be even better. Other 3/5s like Violet Teacher can sometimes be better than Shieldmasta, too.

The worst-case scenario with it is likely Mogu'shan Warden, and even that's still a Sludge Belcher's slime with +5 health when you get it for free like that. Weak compared to all the alternative possibilities, but still not a disaster, save perhaps situationally.

At the end of the day, what makes Sky Golem so good is that it's a two-in-one minion, and thus pretty likely to be a two-for-one. And even when getting its worst possible tokens, it'll likely be a one-for-one that additionally slows your opponent down or helps you deal with something else. Its only real weaknesses, just like all other such minions, are silence and transformation spells.

There are less good 5- drops (Belcher and Loatheb, essentially),

There is also Azure Drake and Faceless Manipulator. And some class cards, though Priest only really has Holy Nova there.

[Thrawn183]

If we get decks from arena before GvG but don't open them until after GvG is released, what will they give?

[Frog Dragon]

I'm quite certain you'd get packs from the old set.

[AmberVael]

If we get decks from arena before GvG but don't open them until after GvG is released, what will they give?

If you mean card packs, any card packs you have now remain the same.
To cite the wiki...
"All currently existing card packs are expert card packs. They will not be converted into Goblins vs Gnomes packs upon release, meaning players have no reason not to open them now."

If you mean purchasing an arena run now but not actually picking cards for the deck until after GvG, I have no idea.

[Tectonic Robot]

To be honest, Cairne isn't even that good in this meta--he's too slow. Maybe it'll slow down enough to make him and Piloted Sky Golems nice and cool.

[Infernally Clay]

To be honest, Cairne isn't even that good in this meta--he's too slow. Maybe it'll slow down enough to make him and Piloted Sky Golems nice and cool.

Cairne may not be that good in a world where everyone seems to want to rush their opponent down, but he's tougher than Piloted Sky Golem and you're guaranteed another 4/5 when he dies. While it's entirely true you could end up getting a Pit Lord out of the Piloted Sky Golem, there are 35 minions that Piloted Sky Golem can summon with its effect. That's a 2.86% chance of getting a Pit Lord (or any specific card for that matter).

Out of all the cards you can summon, how many would you want to? Pit Lord is an obvious one due to those excellent stats, but you wouldn't really want an Auchenai Soulpriest. Violet Teacher could be good, but Twilight Drake is a definite no-no. Lightspawn would be a card you'd want, but Dragonling Mechanic and Gnomish Inventor are not.

Looking through them, I'd want any one of:

Sen'jin Shieldmasta;
Water Elemental;
Kor'kron Elite (if I was running the Golem into something, anyway);
Chillwind Yeti;
Lightspawn;
Dark Iron Dwarf (a free 4/4 is about as low as I'd go);
Cult Master;
Ancient Brewmaster;
Violet Teacher;
Master of Disguise (same reason as Dark Iron Dwarf);
Ogre Magi (ditto);
Pit Lord;

That gives me less than a 34.5% chance to get a card I'd actually want. Almost two thirds of the time I'd get a card I wouldn't want, a card I'd legitimately consider bad. Considering that none of these cards are explicitly free (you're overpaying for a 6/4 for a 34.5% chance to get a good card out of it when it dies), that doesn't really sell me on the card. I prefer Savannah Highmane and Cairne because you know what you're getting when they die and what you get is actually really good - Hunters always want to summon more Beasts, so the Highmane is automatically great, and replacing a 4/5 with another 4/5 is crazy value. The fact Piloted Sky Golem is a random effect is bad (like "worse than Mindgames" bad*), but the fact the chance of getting something good is so low is even worse.

* Mindgames can get you Ragnaros or Tyrion or Sylvanas or any crazy strong Legendary card your opponent will want to play themselves, long before they'll have the mana to do it. Piloted Sky Golem gets you... Baron Rivendare. Mindgames is terrible, but its effect is still better than Piloted Sky Golem's. The only saving grace there is you're paying two mana more for a 6/4.

[Gandariel]

How about Anub'ar Ambusher, Piloted Shredder, Emerald Drake (does it work?) or Wailing Soul ?


Also, new 4s might be announced.

And still, this thing is arguably a little faster than Cairne (if only for the higher attack of the base form and the chance of Charge or a Taunter on the second minion)

[Nerocite]

How about Anub'ar Ambusher, Piloted Shredder, Emerald Drake (does it work?) or Wailing Soul ?


Also, new 4s might be announced.

And still, this thing is arguably a little faster than Cairne (if only for the higher attack of the base form and the chance of Charge or a Taunter on the second minion)

You can't get non-collectable minions from effects like this, so no Drakes.

Also Druid of the Claw is a beast now.

[r2d2go]

I rank the cards you listed there as Upgraded Repair Bot > Antique Healbot > Mimiron's Head ~ Bling-o-tron > Cobalt Guardian.

I think people are underrating Cobalt Guardian a little bit, honestly. Yes, it's a 6/3 for 5, which can get Bolted for an unfortunate tempo swing against you. But it's better as a turn 6 or 7 drop, hitting the ground with a Divine Shield and being something like a big, regenerating Scarlet Crusader. In a aggro Paladin mech deck, it should be pretty decent - Everyone but Mage is going to have a hard time dealing with it efficiently and not take six damage to the face. I mean, heck, Bling-o-tron is like a 3/4 for 5 unless your opponent has a weapon/you have an Ooze. That's pretty weak. I'd call both somewhat playable in the right meta.

[Infernally Clay]

How about Anub'ar Ambusher, Piloted Shredder, Emerald Drake (does it work?) or Wailing Soul?

Anub'ar Ambusher has great stats but a bad Deathrattle. I had forgotten about Piloted Shredder, who I think is actually better than Piloted Sky Golem due to the vast number of awesome two drops, but eventually getting an awesome two drop out of a 6 mana minion is kinda lame. Wailing Soul would be a vanilla 3/5, which is less than ideal.

[r2d2go]

Anub'ar Ambusher has great stats but a bad Deathrattle. I had forgotten about Piloted Shredder, who I think is actually better than Piloted Sky Golem due to the vast number of awesome two drops, but eventually getting an awesome two drop out of a 6 mana minion is kinda lame. Wailing Soul would be a vanilla 3/5, which is less than ideal.

Less than ideal, yes, but that's still Cairne value on the golem (6/4 and 3/5 is slightly more damage heavy than Cairne, but same total stats). Seriously, you have to look at the whole thing. You're not "eventually getting an awesome two drop out of a 6 mana minion", you're getting a 6/4, then on top of that, a free 4/3, then on top of that, a free two drop, if you get that lucky. Most of the time, you're getting a 6/4 (worth ~4.5 mana on a card on it's own), and then a four drop that averages more like 3.5 mana on a card of value. That's the same value as Cairne, arguably with worse distribution, but overall very good. And you can put two in a deck.

[Gandariel]

Why Cobalt guardian is bad, the long version.


The point is, Cobalt guardian can either be spawned with or without shield

If it has no shield, it very likely dies with a terrible trade.
If you did have a cheap minion to play along with it (turn 8 this + a mech)... why did you hold on to a 2-mana minion for so long?
**usually ** by turn 8 you have had plenty of chances to play all your low-cost minions already.

If you hold a 2 drop in your hand on purpose to play it on turn 8 for the shield, you're deliberately playing sub optimally, and this usually isn't worth it.

The last case that remains is, you draw a 2 drop on turn 7 or 8. In that case, it's good.
Well, more or less as good as an Ogre. Which is more consistent in almost every way.

[Gandariel]

Anub'ar Ambusher has great stats but a bad Deathrattle. I had forgotten about Piloted Shredder, who I think is actually better than Piloted Sky Golem due to the vast number of awesome two drops, but eventually getting an awesome two drop out of a 6 mana minion is kinda lame. Wailing Soul would be a vanilla 3/5, which is less than ideal.

I value a 3/5 vanilla body around the same as a 4/4, actually. (The former being better early game, the latter late game)

Also, casting a 6-drop, having it trade and leave out a free 4-drop, having THAT trade and still leave out a free 2-drop is almost the definition of value. And it's one of the best case scenarios (along with Pit Lord )

The worst case scenario is probably Summoning Portal or Argus, I suppose. And the expected value is somewhere in between.

[Nerocite]

I wish we got Mal'Ganis instead.

[Gandariel]

LOL

Fun card, and actually pretty strong. By turn 5 it's probably a 5/7, and only becomes bigger if you wait a couple turns. Horribly draw-dependant, but should be a good creature pretty much all the time:

4/7 for 5 is generally considered a good body, and it really takes no time to have 3 minions die (especially since you're paladin)

Any more than that and is pure value. It's like a discounted Ogre which is weak to Silence. Eh, one less silence going to Tirion I guess :D

[Mystic Muse]

I'm not sure if I really like it, or am completely underwhelmed.

[Anxe]

Is it even weak to silence? Its attack might actually increase instead of being a buff. So if you have it in your starting hand...

T1: coin out a minion/or nothing if playing first
T2: play a minion or recruit
T3: Muster for Battle and play three minions
T4: one of these turns probably had a spell in it... Why not turn 4?
T5: Baron comes out as a 6/7 if you suicide your minions.

Or you could hold it even longer.

So if best case scenario on a curve, he's a cheaper Ogre.

EDIT: I wonder how it works with Mindvision? Is the current attack copied over?

[Infernally Clay]

I wish we got Mal'Ganis instead.

This card just singlehandedly justified the inclusion of Muster for Battle in every single Paladin deck ever. You're going to want to drop as many Recruits as possible just so each death feeds Bolvar's effect. The best part? Noble Sacrifice must count, since it counts for Avenge, so there's a tonne of synergy there already.

[Frog Dragon]

Is it even weak to silence? Its attack might actually increase instead of being a buff. So if you have it in your starting hand...

T1: coin out a minion/or nothing if playing first
T2: play a minion or recruit
T3: Muster for Battle and play three minions
T4: one of these turns probably had a spell in it... Why not turn 4?
T5: Baron comes out as a 6/7 if you suicide your minions.

Or you could hold it even longer.

So if best case scenario on a curve, he's a cheaper Ogre.

EDIT: I wonder how it works with Mindvision? Is the current attack copied over?

Literally everything with card text is weak to silence.

[Gray Mage]

Yeah, in light of this card Muster now comes with a +3 attack buff that may not even be silenceble.

@Frog: Druid of the Claw isn't weak to silence. That's because the card changes, it isn't a buff. This looks line to be the case.

[Infernally Clay]

At this point, being weak to silence isn't as big a deal. There aren't actually that many ways to inflict silence and few people seem to carry Ironbeak Owls or Spellbreakers (or at least I rarely see them), so you usually find only Priests will actually try to silence anything. Besides, Bolvar is one more target for instant removal and that's great. If you can use him to bait a Polymorph or Hex, then that's one less opportunity for your opponent to do it to Tyrion when he drops.

I really like Bolvar. That's a really strong effect for a class capable of generating its own minions. Shamans would kill for something like this.