Apple WW

[Internet Flea]

The Apples celebrated as the day dragged on, wishing each other well and fondly remembering the apples who had fallen along the way. They celebrated long into the evening, past the usual murder hour. Eventually, though, the celebrations passed (though some continued on into the night), and they got back to the business of trial by blood.

Well, that was fun.
Indeed.
And refreshing!
But, I guess we should do something today.
Yeah, probably.
Anybody have any ideas?

Glad you asked! I've composed a long list that you all should spend time reading!

...do we have to?
I'm not really up to that today.
Yeah, let's put that off.

Are you serious? The other guy does this all the time!

We don't read his either.
Too wordy.
Especially today.

Well, if you're not going to read it yourselves, I guess I'll just read it for you. Loudly, and slowly, so I know you all can hear it!

...I have a better idea.
So do I.
Yeah, let's just get him.

What? You can't! THAT ISN"T ON THE LIST!

The apples lifted the protesting list-maker high above them, waiting for the eventual coming of the Maw.

Fine, be that way! I want to go, you guys don't deserve my lists anyway.

Okay.
Okay.
Okay.

"Okay," boomed the Maw, picking up the offered apple. "Been a while since... ugh. Looks like it's been too long."

...that worked?
That worked.
That worked.

"Well, back to work." The Maw departed, tossing the rotten apple into the chasm of no return.

AvatarVecna was taken by the Maw. He was a Bad Apple, and a Red Apple.
Night 5 begins now and ends in roughly 48 hours.

[AvatarVecna]

Apologies, I should just learn to keep my mouth shut. Good luck everyone.

[Internet Flea]

Just to clarify

Come on now, if I don't clarify things I sure don't want dead players doing it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*sigh* Moving on...

Tonight is the last chance for a neutral (if any) in the game to make their plea for survival. Tomorrow will be too late, and you may end up getting swept up in the hunt for the remaining persons.

I'm saying that because I think you did an excellent job this game and I want you to be able to win with us. You have to trust me. If you don't, then things may turn out badly.

Whether I'm worthy of that trust is perhaps not an established fact. But regardless, it will improve your odds of both winning and surviving.

Any takers need to step forward. Seriously, last call.

[Internet Flea]

We've got you now.

...

The purple apple strode forward, chainsaw flaring to life. His target stood unmoving, seemingly unconcerned.

This has been a long time coming.

...

The chainsaw swung forward.
There was a blur as the other apple raced behind the purple apple, shoving him forward hard. The chainsaw swung around, grazing the bottom of the bowl as it arced toward his target's new position. When it arrived, it met empty air, and the other apple shoved him once again.

Ugh! Stop doing that and DIE!

...

The targeted apple rolled forward savagely, colliding with the purple apple once again. The chainsaw went flying, and the purple apple realized his target had a weapon of his own. The drill whipped to life and plunged forward.

Where did you learn to use that?
...huh.

The drill slammed into the bowl beside the purple apple as the other apple shriveled and collapsed. The bad apple helped the purple apple to his feet, emptying the rest of the salt on their opponent.

I told you it would work.
I nearly died!
But you didn't, and he did.
Too close. What took you so long?
Do you have any idea how far away they keep the salt?
Never again. From now on we're sticking to sharp objects and fire.

ThePhantom was salted by the Bad Apples. He was a member of the Apple Corps, and a Yellow Apple.
Day 6 begins now and ends in roughly 120 hours.

[Ionbound]

Hokay. Pressure vote on Sphazre until further notice.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Penguinator the Purple people eater, reason: Being the Purple Apple / scrying himself on Night two to cause the interference that Fleeing Coward ran up against, and Rain Dragon did not cause.

______________________


Which brings us to Firedaemon.

I'm about to break character and maybe open up a little bit too much about how I feel about this game. So stick around, it could get interesting.

Firedaemon got the shaft, because Firedaemon was saddled with not one, but two evil apples of the red color (Penguinator and AvatarVecna), a dead red apple mason on day one in Duck999, and a must-murder village power role of the Seer/Fool, in Raindragon. Roles which were highly likely to be found guilty via scrying power, identified and then murdered by the evil apples, or just plain killed off due to their color. And their trump card, meaning a red apple everyone knew was innocent, went down immediately.

(Note: I'm not saying the game was unbalanced- the game was well balanced. It's just that things took a decisive turn for the worse for every faction but the green one really, really early, and the game setup remaining thereafter didn't do it any favors. No one's fault, just how the fates roll.)

Firedaemon, I wish I could wave a magic wand and turn your color green right now. Or, I wish that you were actually not a red apple, and were an Orange or something, and that you technically didn't count as a red apple, and had already met your nebulous and unknown Orange neutral victory conditions, and that there would therefore be no need for the game to continue past today.

I play the game in an attempt to achieve a win, but sometimes it's just not worth it. There are other factors. Fun, for example- I was vocally opposed to a certain brute force scrying strategy Sprig suggested earlier because of past experiences in games where people were coerced into going along with a known good guy controlling everyone's actions "or else".

I also want some things to be in-game, and some things to be out-of-game. Reactions like one I just got from AV aren't ones i want to cause. I don't like it when people don't enjoy the game or they feel everything is stacked against them unfairly. And although mafia is necessarily a game of hidden information and murdering and lynching people off, it's meant to be all in good fun. But sometimes it's not fun.

Players I've been playing with for years kind of get that I feel comfortable enough around them to hold nothing back when I play the game, except that I'd rather be polite and friendly about it. Even if, in-game, we're trying to rob each other of victory in as ruthless a manner as possible.

But sometimes people will not enjoy that kind of play. And victory isn't any fun at all if it's not a fun game for the people who played it. I've felt some hollow-feeling victories before because I felt like only a few people in the game had fun playing it due to some of the strategies used.

The bottom line is, I'd rather end the game in a draw, after Penguinator gets lynched, than force a green color victory on you, which is the victory I've been playing for. I don't want to go back on my word to the evil green apple to support him all the way to the end.

But it does make me feel like what's the friggen point if, at the end, me and the evil green apple were the only ones who had fun doing this.

So here I am. My role says "good green apple" but it doesn't say anything about removing evil green apples from the game. It also doesn't say anything about removing good red apples from the game. The only people I can't win with are evil red apples.

So, no matter what happens next, I'm forced to choose between friends, two people I have no victory condition requiring me to lynch, both of whom I feel are deserving of a win.

I'd rather abstain, but then one of you gets lynched anyway, and I will have had a lot to do with it. So abstaining is probably not a solution. Almost definitely not.

Like I said, I'd rather offer a draw and have us all exit this one as friends, and congratulate you on what you managed to achieve under the stress of immensely bad cards dealt to you, and make note of the fact that it doesn't say I have to lynch you to win. The only one who I feel would have a problem with that would be the evil green apple I've told I'll support all the way to the end. I might be a treacherous backstabby kind of mafia player, but there are some promises that you shouldn't break. It causes bad feelings. It's like stepping on the opposing team's quarterback in football when he just got knocked down. Even if you could get away with it, would you want to?

But I don't think I get to pick an ending that makes everyone happy, unfortunately. Solomon doesn't get to split the baby and have that be a solution. That bridge was burned last round, but it was never really an option anyway, due to how our roles were written. We either had to play for a color team win or a good team win, and in so doing, consciously destroy one of our potential allies in the process. We never really had the comfort of saying it wasn't our intention. We had to make a choice.

I even considered, and wrote in my quicktopic, a crazy plan of just knocking off all the good apples and making it one or two reds and a green, all evil or neutral, which would have the effect of meeting the green good apple's win condition of greens outnumbering yellows, but also, having reds outnumbering greens, and keeping my green evil buddy alive, and even letting red evil buddy or buddies survive, accomplishing all their goals. The only people who would lose would be the yellow team, who was already quite screwed to the floor. And I thought and I thought about it, and it made sense.

According to my win conditions, it makes sense, anyway. But I'm not sure everyone's are written the same. And, due to the color rivalry, there was no reason for the evil reds to go along with it. They'd just have to trust that I would have their interests at heart. And ultimately, all that would have done would have been to prolong the game for many rounds, deliberately hitting all the right people in just the right order that we might all be winners.

And it just wasn't feasible, and it might not have been really possible, and it's little more than several rounds of choreographed lynch-and-murder with the outcome not really being in doubt.

But I thought about it. I wanted a lot of people to win with us, thought of ways of securing the maximum amount of victory, to the maximum number of parties in the game... It just wasn't built in to the game design. And it's just a cheat, to avoid having to make any tough decisions or screw anyone over.

There's no Kobiyashi Maru. I looked for one, and tried to achieve it. And with Avatar voting for a green apple yesterday, it wasn't possible. Unless the game hosts would allow a draw, one of the persons I don't want to lynch in order to win, will get lynched.

So, I'm hoping very much that you're about to defeat all the rest of us as a win-stealing Orange, Firedaemon. That would be an awesome ending to this game, which has had its share of good times, bad times, ups and downs.

Cheers.

Whatever happens next, I want to thank all the other players for continuing play even if it was hard sometimes, and I don't blame anyone for being upset at things, whether they were my doing or not. I want to thank our gracious hosts, and I hope that we can resolve this thing a lot sooner than 5+ days from now.

Thanks everyone for listening.

[Ionbound]

Mmm. Fine. Penguinator, then. And for the record, I don't really blame you, Pizzaguy. Such are the fates of this game.

[Vwulf DeMarcus]

Okay wait, maybe I missed something, but how are you so sure that Penguinator is the Purple Apple? I'm wiling to believe it, but I'd like to know.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay wait, maybe I missed something, but how are you so sure that Penguinator is the Purple Apple? I'm wiling to believe it, but I'd like to know.

Sprig mentioned to me in private what was going on vis-a-vis the Apple/Sauced/Purple scriers on night 2, and said that one of them was scrying Sprig, and the other was scrying Penguinator and got interference. When both of the Seer/Fool went down, it meant we knew they were telling the truth about that, and we also know the only way Penguinator got interference on N2 is if the Purple apple caused it.

Purple apple scrying Penguinator N2, and then leaving him alive when he got interference, the lack of votes all game by evil apples on Penguinator, the resistance to lynching Penguinator given by AV and the green apple yesterday, and the likelihood of the purple apple self-scrying to cause interference, all adds up to like a 90% read on him being Purple.

It's not ironclad. For example, you are a candidate for the Purple apple, Vwulf. So is Firedaemon. But I find either one of those, particularly the latter, quite unlikely.

- - - Updated - - -

Mmm. Fine. Penguinator, then. And for the record, I don't really blame you, Pizzaguy. Such are the fates of this game.

Yeah- with the victory conditions written the way they are, color is more a factor in the game than good or evil, which makes it more of a factional game than a mafia-game.

That being said, players could play it as a mafia game on purpose and deliberately try to kill off all the bad apples to end the game, and then whichever colors met their objectives at that time wins. But it seems to leave a lot of your fate to.... well, fate. Doing things that way.

[Sprig]

I'm not particularly sold on Penguinator, though my doubt obviously crept in when I asked about self scry.

I also don't think he is the right option at this stage, he surely must be up for wog at some stage soon.

I also have the distinct impression that I am being well and truly played.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm not particularly sold on Penguinator, though my doubt obviously crept in when I asked about self scry.

I also don't think he is the right option at this stage, he surely must be up for wog at some stage soon.

Game host has made no mention of autolynch. It's also a bit late, an autolynch greatly impacts the balance of power and unduly removes a suspect from the lynch pool.

For example, if Firedaemon were guilty, removing Penguinator at this point is almost as bad as the game host pointing at Firedaemon and saying "Lynch this person"

I also have the distinct impression that I am being well and truly played.

It might have something to do with...... ME BEING THE EVIL GREEN APPLE!!!!

[sphazre]

For lack of a better option, Penguinator.

[Sprig]

It might have something to do with...... ME BEING THE EVIL GREEN APPLE!!!!

You know, I really do take you on your word for this type of thing. If there is a third time - I'm lynching you.

Any particular comment on why ThePhantom was the choice of target last night?

[Askthepizzaguy]

You know, I really do take you on your word for this type of thing. If there is a third time - I'm lynching you.

Any particular comment on why ThePhantom was the choice of target last night?

Evil green can't win with any good non-greens alive.

You're still here because you're green.

[Sprig]

I have always liked Green :D

I am a little bit miffed that the evil guys are supposed to off each other. If I was evil green, I would have killed a red... even my own teamamate if needed. This is especially true if Penguin is inactive. So killing yellow might be a compromise of sorts for two active Bad apples.

However... we do need to take into account that (as IF has stated) there are changes to the win conditions compared to the opening post.

[Ionbound]

So if I die tonight, ATPG is the evil green apple, as he knows for sure I am a good non-green. Of course, if I die that means that the game might be over, so...

[Sprig]

So if I die tonight, ATPG is the evil green apple, as he knows for sure I am a good non-green. Of course, if I die that means that the game might be over, so...

Oh yeah, its Lylo right? Gotta be more than just the purple left?

- - - Updated - - -

Vwulf - green wolf lynch would be more telling Imo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I wouldn't be in favor of a Vwulf lynch today. I already offered a draw, I wouldn't vote in a way that consciously makes me lose the game.

[Penguinator]

*clap clap clap*

Looks like I'm here in no time to change anything, so I will allow my death to stand for itself.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*clap clap clap*

Looks like I'm here in no time to change anything, so I will allow my death to stand for itself.

OOC/OOG

Welcome back, Penguinator. I missed the opportunity to actually play with you.

Hope everything is all right.

[sphazre]

@Sprig Lylo?

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Sprig Lylo?

Lynch or Lose

Where if the next lynch is a mislynch of some type, the combined forces of the mafia outvote the village the next day with a successful murder.

[Internet Flea]

It's clear what we should do.
So clear.
Clear enough we don't even have to say.

The apples swarmed over their brethren, lifting him high above them and carrying him off to the Maw.

He's just sitting there.
Isn't he going to defend himself?
Is he even awake?

"Man, I hope this apple's better than the last one," came the booming of the Maw.

The time has come.
The judgment is at hand.
Any last words?

...oh hey guys, what's going o-

The Maw crashed down on the waking apple, cutting off his words.

"Man, that was exactly what I needed," the Maw boomed, and departed, continuing to munch its offering.

Penguinator was taken by the Maw. He was a Good Apple, and a Red Apple.
Night 6 begins now and ends in roughly 24 hours.

[Ionbound]

Well, ****.

[Askthepizzaguy]

A good red apple? Oh no! This is terrible news!

Now the green apples will somehow continue to outnumber the others!

And the crab apple is still dead!

And there aren't any yellow apples left!

The horror, the horror.

- - - Updated - - -

To put into perspective the unseriousness of the situation:

Literally the only way that the green apples can lose the game is if the evil green apple was actually purple and also not counted as a green apple for the purposes of victory calculation, and decided to kill off all of the green good apples, and purposefully left Firedaemon alive and Firedaemon was also evil.

A circumstance I would find hilarious enough to root for at this point.

[Internet Flea]

Another night, another-

The purple apple flung the knife hard, sticking it into the back of the unsuspecting apple.

What was that?
I'm not in the mood for banter.
But there's always banter.
Let's just go.
What's even the point if we're not going to banter?
Drop it.
You ruin everything, you know that?

firedaemon33 was unceremoniously killed by the Bad Apples. She was a Good Apple and a Red Apple.
Day 7 begins now and ends in roughly 48 hours.

[Vwulf DeMarcus]

So it looks like the last thing to do is kill the purple apple? Because it seems that Askthepizzaguy might be right regarding the purple apple.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vwulf Demarcus.

I made a promise, Mr Frodo. A promise. "Don't you leave him, Samwise Gamgee." And I don't mean to. I don't mean to. If helping my friend all the way to the gates of Mordor and falling into the fires of Mt. Doom is my fate, then so shall it be. And if my friend turn out to be Sauron himself, who push me into the sacred fire, the only part of me that shall remain is my golden heart.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What more do you want of me, friend Sphazre? What more could I give?

I would give it all for you- if my death is what you need next, so be it! I offered that very thing before.

I gave you my word, I'd give you my life.

You know I have your back no matter what, my friend. Remember who stood by you when the votes came your way, who battled back against the reds, who kept your identity from the others.

Even here, when I technically don't know for sure that you're a green apple, I believe in you.

But I do believe you are as green as they come. And I am right there beside you, being all the green I can be.

Remember how green we are, on the outside, and how superior the green-ness of our green is to all the other colors!

But our greenness is not skin deep! We are green all the way down to the core!

Nothing has shaken my resolve to be green, and fight the green fight!

They said you were a bad seed, but I know better! You're just misunderstood! It is not truly evil that is inside you at all, but a desire to be victorious at any cost! A desire for GREEN to win!

I am your true brother here, not this Vwulf. He told you himself, kill the purple apple.

Are you the purple apple Sphazre? I think not!

So it looks like the last thing to do is kill the purple apple?

He told you himself, listen to Pizzaguy.

...don't listen to me, listen to Pizzaguy.

Why would you hang around this riff-raff, he's not even the right color, Sphazre!

Would he throw away all the other apples just to make sure you won?

Would he die for you, Sphazre?

WOULD HE DIE FOR YOU, SPHAZRE!?!??!


I would. I've proven it. I've promised it.

Now choose, Sphazre.

Choose which one of us is truly your ally and friend.

And remember, there is no wrong choice. Because no matter what, you have won!

And I am proud of you!!!

- - - Updated - - -

At least.... at least do me this one favor.

Think it over.