Fantasy Dystopia

[mister__joshua]

Moving things over to here from this thread: Dystopias

This seems a more appropriate place for continued discussion. Here's what I've got so far:

After a bit of pondering here's an idea I think I'm going to try running with and see how it goes. It will use the Catastrophic Dragons in this thread, cos I think they're cool. There are some fundamental changes in the world from what would be considered a 'normal' world.

Note: This isn't written in a Story view. That'll come after. This is just an overview. I'll move this to the World-Building Homebrew sub-forum when I've got more to it.

World History
The world began like most fantasy worlds, and had an age of prosperity. In this world natural disasters as we know them didn't exist. Weather patterns were regular and mild. Druids were pleasant and happy. With the age of prosperity came the abusing of resources. Over mining, deforestation, the overuse of arcane magic, over fishing and hunting. The druids of the world changed and became withdrawn and haggered. They traveled preaching the end of the world and telling people to repent (this has large parallels to the modern day global problems). Finally, after the warnings were ignored the nature god (Obad-hai like, but with a different name. An unlikely enemy, and I like unlikely enemies) could take no more of the destruction and abuse and the earth began to fight back. (S)He started with the animals, controlling them like puppets, and with his prophets the Druids. He then unleashed the Catastrophies (the catastrophic dragons. Maybe 4 diffrerent types and Legendaries). These brought weather changes never before experienced. Deep freezes, insane heat, terrible winds. He was trying to wipe out the races that abused the planet. These would also be the only Dragons in the setting.


That's the start of it anyway. From there I'm still plotting. Either the Catastrophies were too powerful to control and ran amok, or the god(s) decided to let them wipe out the humanoid races.

This setting would then have some of the other ideas I liked, like the Dwarves being driven out by other races seeking to settle beneath ground. Subverting the normal order of races and classes.

A response to a follow-up question: With the Gods, there are 2 options. Either go with a Monotheistic religion (God, known for wrathful disasters) or a reluctant consensus among the gods that the population needed to go for the future of the realm.

I'm going to keep adding to this over time whether others want to contribute or not. I'm good either way.

Any initial thoughts?

[Valefor Rathan]

With a pantheon of gods/godlings -

Werewolf the Apocalypse had three "primordial" powers - Unbridled Creation (Wyld), Rampant Order (Weaver), Custodial Engineering (Wyrm). The Weaver trapped the Wyrm and drove it insane in the process. The world order and such got blasted because of this.

Something similar may work for your world - the various gods all agreed to the initial "reset" of the world and races, but something went haywire - the Trickster God(dess) is having too much fun, Arrogant God(dess) wants to be on top, etc. Just a thought.

As for the races being swapped - I like the idea. Maybe the dwarves charge absurd "fees" to have the Upper Races come down and be protected. Maybe they're really benevolent. Are there going to be Under versions of the other races (drow, deep gnomes, etc?). What about dragonborn? Are they more elementally aspected and used by the Catastrophes to pursue the Lesser races into the places they hide?

I'm enjoying this process immensely.

[mister__joshua]

I like the primordial idea so I'll be considering that.

My currently running concept is that the Gods/Primordials that unleashed the Catastrophes now wish to reign them back in but can't. The Druids that foretold these events are now back on the side of good, but tainted and never trusted by the rest of the populace. This is partly because I don't want to eliminate any character races/classes even if they are subverted.

As for the Dwarves I was thinking: Their fortresses are prized locations, but they've largely been driven out by the sheer numbers of the other races seeking refuge. All but one or 2 of the dwarven holds are now settled by all races, and generally run down and in disrepair. Some dwarves remain, but most couldn't live with or forgive their conquerors and so left. Being naturally hardier than the other races, they managed to survive on the surface while others had perished. This will leave Dwarves as a primarily Barbarian race but with a history of greatness and a desire to one day return to their ancestral homes.

I've been thinking a lot about the subterranean races. They are the ones most likely to survive the surface (where food is lacking) as they are used to operating without the sun (and most of the disasters will blot he sun). So you've got a completely flipped world with the subterrans living on a baron surface and the usual races struggling for warmth/shelter beneath the ground.


There's still a lot I need to work out, and some things will develop in play. Dragonborn I've been thinking a lot on but haven't got anything yet. As the Catastrophics are the only Dragons in the setting they can't have existed before that, so they must be a recent world addition.

I'm enjoying it too :D

[JamesIntrocaso]

Nice!!!!

So are drow, duergar, and svirfneblin on the surface too? That could be really cool. Maybe drow and duergar are still super evil, but they're also the best dragon hunters/fighters and so other races are forced to hire them from time to time for protection which can have disastrous consequences. Or they have created a bunch of raiding parties that make the surface even more dangerous since they're always looking for resources?

It'd be cool to give people underground a reason to have to travel the surface from time to time. Maybe some of the Catastrophies have collapsed underground tunnels in the Underdark through volcanic erruptions and earthquakes so if you want to travel from a certain stronghold to another, you have to head to the surface, depending on which tunnels are blocked.

You could look at the 4e primordials as gods. Each of them was more connected to particular elements and disasters. In 4e primordials created the multiverse, the gods populated them with people and then they battled for control (in a nutshell). Ultimately the gods won out, imprisoning the primordials, who are alive and plotting. Maybe there's something there... The god of nature got pissed and when he released the Catastrophies he also released the primordials... Something like that?

Anyway, this is really cool. I can't wait to hear how it pans out!

[mister__joshua]

These are all great ideas, thanks for the input!

To start with, I really want to figure out what life is like for a regular human, and what it will be like for an adventurer. From here I can build outwards. I think it'll be interesting if regular people and even characters don't know what's happened to the world. For some it will have always been like this, some will hear stories with no facts. The old ruined cities will contain histories pointing to what has gone before.

The good thing about building the world this way round (from the inside out) is that you can start playing straight away while working on the external factors and histories as they are discovered.

[mister__joshua]

I think to start with it might be good to split the dragons into regions. If there are 4 legendaries associated with catastrophes then there will be 4 distinct terrains.

Typhoon or Tornado would result in a desolate Desert region

Blizzard would result in a Frozen Tundra

Volcanic would result in a region of black soil and burnt landscape where the ground is always hot. Volcanic soil is great for growing, but at what risk?

I've not really done Earthquake yet, but that should be a fun ruin of a place :)

[Valefor Rathan]

Tornado could be just vast expanses of grasslands. No large vegetation, just wide open spaces for hundreds of miles. A sea of grass and dried dirt.

The Typhoon "region" could be marshland and coastal regions prone to intense floods - feast or famine type.

[Shining Wrath]

It's a pretty well established trope that Someone sets something in motion and it gets out of control. Fred Saberhagen's Beserkers, and so on. In the 5e Monster Manual, we are informed that the Kraken were created to serve the gods during their wars, and broke free, and now trouble the world because they can't get at the gods.

So I propose that Nature God saw the world as being out of balance, and to restore the balance unleashed Catastrophic Dragons that correspond to the 4 classic elements:
White (Air / Cold)
Red (Fire)
Green (Earth)
Black (Water).

And now these dragons, being evil catastrophic sorts, scheme against each other, each seeking to expand their domain at the expense of the others; and mortals find themselves buffeted about, able to survive only in regions that are "no dragon's land" borders where 3 or 4 of the elements come together with no one element dominating.

If you've ever played Diplomacy, it probably occurs to you that a prudent ruler will act to strengthen whichever Dragon is weakest in his territory, and weaken whichever dragon is strongest; balance is essential to survival. In the meantime, the Dragons seek those within each territory who are willing to advance their interests, bestowing various gifts (usually power) on their servants.

Plunk your PCs down in one of these inhabited regions; introduce various threats to the tenuous balance, and away you go. Interestingly, the characters dare not defeat one of the Catastrophic Dragons unless they can defeat all of them, very quickly; removing Fire or Cold or Earth or Water leads to a world that is not habitable.

[Valefor Rathan]

Maybe the Catastrophes are physical manifestations of some of the gods themselves. By defeating the dragons you "free" the trapped godling that has been imprisoned and driven insane. Put it out of it's misery maybe. The spiritual energy escapes the physical vessel.

After dropping one or two, the party realizes that they needed some way to channel the godlings back to a higher plane - they don't go automatically. Now you've a quest to find the right way to banish/reset these things after a couple have been freed.


Does any of that make sense?

[mister__joshua]

Yeah. I'm trying not to put too much emphasis on the 'setting things right'. I'd maybe like it to be a possibility eventually, but I'm mainly after a grim world to set other stories in.

I want to think along the lines of things like the Walking Dead. Not the zombies, but the society. When societal structure has broken down in an uninhabitable world, what do the people do to survive? Small tribal-like settlements. Larger settlements that seem like havens, but struggle for their own food and are led by the self serving and corrupt. I think that's the sort of society I want to go for, and build the world into that background.

I'm thinking that after the Catastrophes were released, the extreme weather somehow severed the link between the material and the gods/primordials/other forces etc. Clerics can still exist, but faith is an increasingly rare thing in the world. The ideals of a Paladin are all but unheard of, but that's why PCs are exceptional. This will be a world of very few heroes.

Following that I want to think about what I actually want to get the PCs to do/achieve. Changing the world is a level 20 objective (slaying Legendary Dragons, if they ever get to that). Plain survivalist game play will be fun early on. Once spells like Create Food and Water become available the dynamic will change, but in turn whole communities will look to the PCs for help and hope.

I'm just rambling now so I'll go away and think some more :)

[Valefor Rathan]

The first generation of PCs start to form coalitions or become warlords and establish a section of the worlds' history, maybe?

Set the first group of players up to really set the tone and establish a new narrative within the world.

[mister__joshua]

That's an interesting idea. I'd have to find a common ideal that the players could work towards.

I really like political tyranny as an element too. The adventure could maybe progress from establishing > competing > solving. Establishing a settlement, protection a group or something along those lines then later coming into contact with other groups and clashing/competing for resources etc. and finishing with the final solution to the world issues at the highest levels.

What I also like about the establishing a community idea is seeing how the PCs cope with responsibility when others are relying on them and they themselves are better off than the commoners.

[Valefor Rathan]

I have a Tribe 8 game going (well, on hold really) where the PCs have started to establish their own splinter colony and mini-fort.

Giving PCs the opportunity to create a large holding/army can be fun but also a little daunting.

I think the world that's brewing here could be a good place to try it out - you could geographically isolate one group of characters and let them be the "tyrant-prone" and have another area/region feature the more classic adventurer-style.

[mister__joshua]

We're playing tonight (our regular 5th game, where I'm a player) so I'm going to ask people what characters they'd like to play so I can start working the backgrounds into the setting.

[mister__joshua]

Ok, I'm looking at probably:

Dwarf Fighter/Barbarian
Elf Ranger
Undetermined Wizard

I only asked for loose descriptions so I can try and fit them into the world.

Dwarf Barbarian: Quite an easy one, given what I've said. Part of a Dwarf clan driven from their underground keep and now living on the surface in hard conditions. I imagine the next generation of Dwarves as Barbarians so that fits well.

Elf Ranger: Surface explorer sent out as a scout to check on the surface of the earth. A data collector. I'll build from there but it's an interesting start.

Wizard: I plan on making spell access somewhat limited for Wizards, maybe even making them find each scroll then need for spells rather than gaining them every level. I'd have to award them quicker than normal to keep them in line with other characters, but think it would be fun to have the spell casters of the time have to 'find' their magic.

[Valefor Rathan]

Wizard: I plan on making spell access somewhat limited for Wizards, maybe even making them find each scroll then need for spells rather than gaining them every level. I'd have to award them quicker than normal to keep them in line with other characters, but think it would be fun to have the spell casters of the time have to 'find' their magic.

What about a sorcerer instead? Maybe the formal learning of the wizards is on the out since society has fallen. Let the player begin to re-establish the study and pursuit of magic to refine his natural/wild talents?

If the player doesn't like that idea, maybe he's studied under one of the last trained wizards and make the class more rare.

[mister__joshua]

Yeah, one of my intentions was to make PC classes rare within the world. This will contribute to how the PCs are seen by the rest of society, particularly if they have unusual talents such as spellcasting.

I was undecided on the Sorcerer thing because I was going to tie the sorcerers into the catastrophes in some way. Draconic and Wild are origins that fit well into that. The more studious Wizard could then be left to gather and learn any remaining spells he could find in the world. I may provide the option to study towards certain spells that could then be awarded on level-up.


I'd love to try and collect this into a more formal format, like a wiki or something, but I haven't anything like the time at the moment so it's going to remain in my head and a series of scribbled forum posts for now :P

[Valefor Rathan]

Sounds good. I don't know what's in the DMG but maybe the wizard player would want to "create" spells. Or rediscover. With the Upper World in such chaos the search would be long and arduous, through ruins now sheltering the angry dwarves. Or traveling the Under World to far off refugee encampments to consolidate the learning and maybe share what (s)he knows.

...man, I want to be a player in this lol.

[mister__joshua]

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking. That'd be great wouldn't it? Maybe it could extend to divine casters too, and having to reconnect with the gods or something?

I'm quite excited to run it, but we're in the middle of a campaign currently. A more normal one. This is being developed as a sort of 'backup' game, so I'm having some fun with it :D

The next sort of 'challenge' I see is bringing the characters together if they're from different parts of this world. Maybe chance encounter and common foe would do it?

[Valefor Rathan]

Since everyone in the Under World is a refugee it would be easy to have the players from the same city/refugee camp

[mister__joshua]

True, that's an option. I may draw the characters from different aspects of the world though. The Ranger investigating the conditions of the area, the Dwarf hunting, the Wizard searching for lore, and they come together. I'm still undecided. I really need to decide which bit of the world I'm focusing on in terms of catastrophe, and what I want the landscape to look like. Snowy is always fun.

[Valefor Rathan]

Actual snow or snowing ash? I guess both would work actually. Maybe a person in power is funding an expedition to old dwarf ruins in the World Below or to the World Above? Something goes wrong and the PCs with a couple NPC survivors have to make it back to base to report.

[mister__joshua]

See that's what I love about bleak settings. There are so many story ideas without even having a bbeg. The world is the enemy!

[mister__joshua]

And snowing ash might be better. People live in snow all the time. I'll read up on volcanic eruptions :-)

[Valefor Rathan]

Find images from Pompeii. ::shudders:: "Haunting" does not begin to cover the feeling.

[Yora]

Unlike snow, ash doesn't melt. It just keeps building up. Eventually, everything gets burried and crushed by the weight. Unless you get heavy rain, then it will turn into mud and slide down slopes, again crushing everything in it's path.

Occasional dust storms consisting of ash might work, if the amount is small enough and the storms not very frequent, so there is enough time for rain to wash most of it away inbetween them.
You still could end up with lots of plains covered a meter deep in ash, and some whole regions becoming uninhabitable because of not enough rain or the landscape doesn't allow for the ash to be sufficiently carried away.

[mister__joshua]

You still could end up with lots of plains covered a meter deep in ash, and some whole regions becoming uninhabitable because of not enough rain or the landscape doesn't allow for the ash to be sufficiently carried away.

That doesn't sound too far from what I was after :D

Obviously you can't have a whole world like this, but large parts of it could be. I'm currently reading up on volcanic ash impact.

[Yora]

Also look up Dust Bowl. That might give some insight into long-term effects in mostly dry conditions.

[mister__joshua]

I've been having a little re-think on this. I've been partly inspired by The Hobbit and Smaug I suppose, but mostly I got the idea from playing Shadowrun: Dragonfall.

I think it might be interesting if the whole dystopian element of the setting was caused by a single enraged ancient dragon. If the setting as a whole was somewhat low-magic then a single ancient dragon would be largely unchallenged in the world. If it decides on awaking from it's slumber that scorching the earth of men was it's wont then humanity would have little to challenge it, and would have to adapt and develop to combat the threat. The setting itself would be almost post-apocalyptic and fallout-like, but with vast swathes of scorched landscape. Cities would be mostly subterranean by necessity, and surface walking rife with danger.

I haven't expanded too much on it beyond that, but I think that pretty much nails the feel I was going for.

[Picasso007]

I think the "problem" with having a single dragon be the cause is that it puts the long-term focus of the game on defeating that dragon. You mentioned liking that "the world is the enemy", but if you have a single source of the disaster, that's the enemy, even if the PCs are nowhere near strong enough to face it yet. So the story becomes less "surviving the world" and more "saving the world". Which might be what you're going for.

If there are many dragons involved, then there's no one target to defeat to "fix" things. Or if you do want that to be a possibility, maybe have a small number of dragons (one of each type?)

Either way, if you haven't read Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy yet, you really should. Besides being great books in general, they are very relevant to your interests (especially with regards to ash-covered landscapes).