Baldur's Gate: The Thread

[Sylthia]

At this point I get the feeling that they should just let this game rest in peace...

I dunno, it still have quite a fan base. Maybe they could have done a BG3 or spiritual successor instead, but we'll see how it turns out.

[Feytalist]

I dunno, it still have quite a fan base. Maybe they could have done a BG3 or spiritual successor instead, but we'll see how it turns out.

The original games still have quite a fan base. The plot was well and truly resolved at the end of the last game, and any new games will very probably just mess with the good graces of the fans.

And probably make a lot of money. So I wouldn't be too surprised at any new developments.

[Calemyr]

For my part, I would like to see more Baldur's Gate, myself. Telling a cohesive and engaging story that does not alter events in BG2 is certainly a challenge, but hardly impossible given that the official story puts a surprisingly large gap between BG1 and BG2 where they continue adventuring before getting captured by Irenicus. The very hard part will be finding a way to have optimal impact on the player without having significant impact on the narrative. Something like Tales of the Sword Coast, actually, would work very well. It can be very personal without being epic, much like the werewolf on Baldur's island - and as a prequel it predates all significant romances, leaving you a second chance to explore a first (albeit doomed) love.

Heck, we could be saving Gorion's soul from a prison of Sarevok's creation, or trying to climb a tower or delve into a dungeon to get some answers on being Bhaalspawn, or dealing with the aftermath of Sarevok's plan (proving that the big guy's scheme was more dangerous then getting some kobolds to mess with iron production)... even going up against savvy villain who drops lots of hints and references to BG2 for the audience without ever letting the party catch on to what's really going on. Or simply tooling around the Sword Coasts, looking for more trouble to get into, maybe a little PTSD from BG1's plot, with the party struggling to get used to the fact that their great adventure is over and not being sure whether to be relieved or disappointed by that fact.

Anyway, BG time is always a paradox. It's clear there was a passage of time between games (Neera gets a rebound boyfriend, Quayle gets personality, Ajantis becomes an active adventurer in Amn, Viconia gets shown all over again that Hell is other people...), yet the story almost wants to suggest no time at all has passed. I think it would work very well to tell a story between the two games that explains this oddity, filling up that blank time so that we do have a significant gap between games but only a small passage of time between adventures.

I do hope that the new expansion has a much stronger focus on the characters, more like Planescape Torment than BG, perhaps. It would be pretty awesome, for example, if Imoen was actually integrated into a game for once, rather than a mere after-thought borne of surprise playtest responses.

[LibraryOgre]

So, completely random association: Changing my son's diaper on his changing table for some reason reminds me of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance. I have absolutely no idea why.

[Calemyr]

So, completely random association: Changing my son's diaper on his changing table for some reason reminds me of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance. I have absolutely no idea why.

Dunno, doesn't seem that much of a stretch to me.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Getting this started because the announcement of the upcoming expansion bridging the two games got me excited. But I'm not sure what to play. I'm torn between making something up, or playing a male human fighter named Abdel Adrian, since that appears to be Forgotten Realms canon, which I'd like to stick to as close as possible while also striving for 100% completion.

[Morty]

Abdel Adrian is the name of the protagonist of the Baldur's Gate novelization. Which is terrible, and takes a chainsaw to the game's canon and just about everything else.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

But then there's that 5e D&D module kicked off with his murder, though. I assumed that was canon.

[Kish]

Yes, "Abdel Adrian was the last child of Bhaal standing" is "Forgotten Realms canon." No, no one cares but you; the makers of the computer game under discussion certainly do not.

So you're planning for your character to be murdered shortly after the end of BG2? If you're treating the novelization as official, you'll need to romance Jaheira, have her killed off permanently by Abazigal, and face Melissan alone. Good luck!

[Winthur]

Yes, "Abdel Adrian was the last child of Bhaal standing" is "Forgotten Realms canon." No, no one cares but you; the makers of the computer game under discussion certainly do not.

Go to your Baldur's Gate 2 and try to import one of the pregenerated characters, particularly the FIGHTER template.

[Feytalist]

Go to your Baldur's Gate 2 and try to import one of the pregenerated characters, particularly the FIGHTER template.

Also true of the Tales of the Sword Coast pregenerated savegame that starts you off in Ulgoth's Beard. At least in my version, the guy was a Fighter named Abdel. So it's been sorta-canon since at least pre-BG2.

[Calemyr]

I assume you're talking the Enhanced Edition, since I don't think Beam Dog is making it compatible with the original BG.

Fun options I've played with:

Half Elf Ranger/Cleric: Since you are, by default, playing through BG1EE, a Ranger/Cleric still maintains its godly status. BG2EE (unless modified) only unlocks spells as you reach their spell level (i.e. you don't get level 1 druid spells until hitting Ranger 8), but that "fix" never hit BG1 to my knowledge. A ranger/cleric is a powerful and flexible tank/caster with a large number of innate and divine assets. Plus, since EE adds 4 new NPCs and none of them is a healer... well... having a healer that can do that duty while also kicking ass gives you more freedom to pick what you like for a party.

Red Dragon Disciple Sorcerer: Can't cast as many spells per day, yes, but gains a number of very nice innates as well: bonus CON, bonus AC, better hp per level, fire resistance, and fire breath. 18 CON doesn't mean much to a sorcerer, perhaps, but get the manual of constitution and the RDD's +1 con, and you get the 20 CON needed for regeneration, which is a pretty nice bonus as well. Some would complain that you can do all that with items, but an RDD gets to take advantage of both! The best part, however, is if you reimagine the kit a bit. You're not exploiting a draconic heritage to become the next Firkraag, you're drawing on your own infernal essence. What aspects does RDD enhance? Fire and toughness, two traits vital for an aspiring hellspawn. Few people, even Sarevok, ever truly take advantage of their Bhaalspawn nature, so imagine if the Scion (the PC) managed to do so - without being corrupted by it. "My blood does not rule me. It will obey me!" Besides, a sorcerer makes a great companion to more generalist mages like Imoen and Neera - the RDD can provide your blasting needs, freeing the other mages to have a more utilitarian and well-rounded loadout.

Skald: Only if you're taking a very physical heavy party (or a summoning heavy party). A skald isn't a combatant so much as a walking force multiplier - every physical fighter (including archers) suddenly can bring much more pain than one extra sword arm could supply. It works really well if you envision the skald's bard song not to be music but natural leadership and tactical abilities. Suddenly you become the legendary Scion not because you're tougher than anyone, but because you can inspire sheep to hunt wolves. This is actually the Scion that I found most engaging from a narrative perspective - a guy who is not actually all that badass on his own but is feared because they make the badasses around him so much scarier.

And don't worry about Abdel. He's an embarassment who is only accepted into canon as a name tied to canon events. As I hear it, the novelizations had Minsc as a red haired guy who quit adventuring and became a cook at the Copper Coronet. This is not a reference material I would put any stock in.

[Kish]

Let me amend what I said: No one but Zousha cares about "Forgotten Realms canon," especially the makers of the game. You can tell this from (for starters) the fact that Sendai is not an assassin. I am well aware where the name Abdel comes from. If you thought I meant to imply that the bare name Abdel and the class "fighter" had nothing to do with the game, I did not mean to create that impression.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The novelization is that bad?

[Calemyr]

The novelization is that bad?

Oh, yes. Legendarily bad. The writer barely had cliff notes about the characters when writing it, apparently. Or the plot, for that matter. Some highlights I've heard about are Imoen, despite having no indication of it before, becoming a lesbian after spending a night with Phaere, Abdel picking up regeneration abilities that Wolverine would consider stupidly overpowered, and the aforementioned butchering of Minsc.

You can read Chainsaw Hobbit's attempt to do a let's read on it here.

[mangosta71]

It's so bad that the person doing a Let's Read specifically to make fun of it stopped less than halfway through it.

[Morty]

I'm pretty sure the protagonist also has sex with Bodhi at some point. So, yeah. It's more of a bad fanfic than a novelization.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I hate fanfic with the rage of a Pictish berserker!

[Calemyr]

I hate fanfic with the rage of a Pictish berserker!

Right, so you don't want to go down that woad, believe me. Use the name if you feel like it, but not feel the need to be beholden to canon in this case.

[LibraryOgre]

Right, so you don't want to go down that woad, believe me. Use the name if you feel like it, but not feel the need to be beholden to canon in this case.

Gotta say, Cale, that pun made me blue.

[Sylthia]

Picked up Pillars of Fate on GOG on sale, hope to have time to play it this weekend.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Pillars of Fate? You mean Pillars of Eternity? Or is this some other game I've yet to hear about?

[mangosta71]

Pillars of Eternity is 30% off at GoG right now, so I assume he means that.

[Sylthia]

Pillars of Fate? You mean Pillars of Eternity? Or is this some other game I've yet to hear about?

Yeah, that's it, I confused the name with a WoW location, I believe.

[Calemyr]

I gotta say, looking into Siege of Dragonspear is... intriguing. Probably the coolest part so far is that they're going to update both BG1EE and BG2EE with the features they've been developing for SoD as a free update. It only makes sense, but it's still a pretty cool way to do things.

Spoiler: What's available on their site:

Show

The Characters:
Captain Schael Corwin - So, a human archer lady who is a ranking member of the Flaming Fists? This gal could be very interesting indeed, since Flaming Fist is kinda bipolar thanks to Scar and Angelo. I'd be interested to see if she's a possible LI, as she'd fit a style the series has never attempted.

M'Khiin Grubdoubler - A playable goblin? A shaman (which is basically a summoning-focused druid)? Yeah, I want to see this girl in action. Goblins can be such chaotic fun.

Voghiln the Vast - Finally, a skald! And possibly a dwarven bard? Hmmm... would be kinda kickass. Unfortunately my "canon" Scion is a skald, so he probably won't get recruited the first time through.

Glint Gardnersonson - I strongly suspect this gnome is a cleric/thief, though hopefully a better one than Tiax. Possibly named in honor of Terry Pratchett? Well, maybe. Probably the last person I'll consider using.

This is really tempting me to try writing a "The Trail from Candlekeep" writeup again. Or at least a playthrough. If I did, would anyone have suggestions on characters I should include? Classic characters? EE characters? Mod characters?

[Winthur]

though hopefully a better one than Tiax. Possibly named in honor of Terry Pratchett? Well, maybe. Probably the last person I'll consider using.
[/SPOILER]

Tiax is a hella broken character even given his latecomer status.

[Calemyr]

Tiax is a hella broken character even given his latecomer status.

If you exploit Draw Upon Holy Might and Quarterstaff backstab, maybe. But it's a fair bit of work to get to the point where he's even competent. On the other hand he has crap stats, is a latecomer rogue (typically a death sentence on its own), is evil, and is very very annoying. Given the overwhelming glut of characters in BG1, I've never seen anything worthy about him. He can be very good if you jump through enough hoops, but I just don't think he's worth it.

Gardnersonson, if you read between the lines, looks like a cleric/thief himself, but a mischievously good-natured one. Being a cleric/thief is, on its own, stealing the one good thing Tiax has, and then topping it with the potential for being more likable. The fact that he's a newbie also means he's likely to have better stats - BG1 originals ran from "absolute crap" to "pretty darn good", but BG2 and EE originals tend to range from "pretty darn good" to "loaded dice". Unless your name is Rasaad, anyway. The universe hates Rasaad.

[Sylthia]

If you exploit Draw Upon Holy Might and Quarterstaff backstab, maybe. But it's a fair bit of work to get to the point where he's even competent. On the other hand he has crap stats, is a latecomer rogue (typically a death sentence on its own), is evil, and is very very annoying. Given the overwhelming glut of characters in BG1, I've never seen anything worthy about him. He can be very good if you jump through enough hoops, but I just don't think he's worth it.

Gardnersonson, if you read between the lines, looks like a cleric/thief himself, but a mischievously good-natured one. Being a cleric/thief is, on its own, stealing the one good thing Tiax has, and then topping it with the potential for being more likable. The fact that he's a newbie also means he's likely to have better stats - BG1 originals ran from "absolute crap" to "pretty darn good", but BG2 and EE originals tend to range from "pretty darn good" to "loaded dice". Unless your name is Rasaad, anyway. The universe hates Rasaad.

In BG2 Monks become godly, so that may be more of the class, rather than the character for Rasaad, although his stats leave a bit to be desired. Thankfully, stat-increasing items are plentiful in BG2.

[Calemyr]

In BG2 Monks become godly, so that may be more of the class, rather than the character for Rasaad, although his stats leave a bit to be desired. Thankfully, stat-increasing items are plentiful in BG2.

Rasaad combines the freakishly unbalanced monk class with pitiful stats to create something that's gets all the way up to the "okay" rung in BG2. His offensive items all use the same slot as the gauntlets of dexterity, for one thing. He's a Beamdog character (thus has a lot more to say than most BG1 originals) and a pretty likable sort, however, so I usually keep him. I was simply commenting on the fact that, outside of Rasaad, most of Beamdog's guys had pretty good stats where it counted for them.

[Morty]

A playable goblin and a dwarven skald would mean they're doing stuff outside AD&D's boxes. Which is very cool, for all my doubts about the project.