LGBTAI+ Questions and Discussion thread II: Make It Double

[Coidzor]

Yeaaaah. Part of that, IME, is that no one really uses Miss anymore, Ms. just became the new Miss, because most women just found they didn't care if they weren't second wave hardliners or radfems, and signaling men to back off because one is married without making it a confrontation is just dead useful, especially with colleagues.

Maybe you could go for the surname by itself? Instead of Ms Smith, just Smith?

With teenagers? They'd eat her alive.

[Irish Musician]

With teenagers? They'd eat her alive.

Depends on the teenagers. My theater teacher went by his last name and no one ever really gave him crap for it.

That being said, I've seen MS and HS teens be completely awful to people for the stupidest of reasons.

Kind of a flip of the coin.

[Lissou]

I guess to be the most neutral, you could go with your first name initial and drop all titles.

[Ifni]

Yeaaaah. Part of that, IME, is that no one really uses Miss anymore, Ms. just became the new Miss, because most women just found they didn't care if they weren't second wave hardliners or radfems

FWIW, I care about not having to advertise my marital status every time I introduce myself. So does my mother, so do pretty much all the women I've discussed it with (albeit this is a fairly small group, and probably has a selection bias toward feminism). I also considered getting an official gender-neutral title to be a fairly significant side benefit of getting my PhD - and yes, I do consider "Dr." and "Professor" gender-neutral, even if people tend to make gendered assumptions regarding them.

I'm just not much help in the current conversation because my solution for "I want a gender-neutral title that signifies accomplishment, rather than irrelevant things like gender/marital status" was "get a doctorate", so I haven't thought much about alternatives

[Chen]

FWIW, I care about not having to advertise my marital status every time I introduce myself. So does my mother, so do pretty much all the women I've discussed it with (albeit this is a fairly small group, and probably has a selection bias toward feminism). I also considered getting an official gender-neutral title to be a fairly significant side benefit of getting my PhD - and yes, I do consider "Dr." and "Professor" gender-neutral, even if people tend to make gendered assumptions regarding them.

I'm just not much help in the current conversation because my solution for "I want a gender-neutral title that signifies accomplishment, rather than irrelevant things like gender/marital status" was "get a doctorate", so I haven't thought much about alternatives

Aren't Miss and Ms generally pronounced the same though? Is there some separate way to pronounce Ms that I'm unaware of?

[YossarianLives]

Aren't Miss and Ms generally pronounced the same though? Is there some separate way to pronounce Ms that I'm unaware of?

In my experience, Ms is usually pronounced 'Miz'.

[noparlpf]

I think "Ms." used to be pronounced "Miz," but I haven't actually heard anybody use that in speech in my entire life.

[Chen]

Well in terms of schooling here, we'd call teachers "Miss" regardless of whether we knew them being married or not. I just assumed that was the way you'd pronounce "Ms". Never heard anyone use "Miz" here.

[goto124]

I think "Ms." used to be pronounced "Miz," but I haven't actually heard anybody use that in speech in my entire life.

How is "Miz" different from the way "Miss" is pronounced? Makes a difference when writing down though.

[Icewraith]

How is "Miz" different from the way "Miss" is pronounced? Makes a difference when writing down though.

"Miss" is pronounced "Miss", "Ms." is pronounced "Miz", and "Mrs." is pronounced "Missus".

[Lissou]

How is "Miz" different from the way "Miss" is pronounced? Makes a difference when writing down though.

One is a S sound, like the S in "cats", the other is a Z sound, like the S in "dogs".

[Sivarias]

Obvious but not question. My friend is just starting the transition process. (HRT). When do I do the pronoun / name switch? Especially since I'm in the early middle circle as far as coming out. Also how does my wife treat them because they haven't come out to her. ( she's my wife and I'm old school. Asking me to not tell her I'd like expecting me to not tell the left hemisphere of my brain.)

[JNAProductions]

Obvious but not question. My friend is just starting the transition process. (HRT). When do I do the pronoun / name switch? Especially since I'm in the early middle circle as far as coming out. Also how does my wife treat them because they haven't come out to her. ( she's my wife and I'm old school. Asking me to not tell her I'd like expecting me to not tell the left hemisphere of my brain.)

Speaking as a cis white male, I'd just ask them. The answer could easily vary from person to person, and they're an adult. Asking questions is fine.

If I had to guess, I'd say you probably want to switch names immediately, at least when around people who know they're transitioning. Around those not in the know, use the older name.

[Sivarias]

So I'll be using the old for a while. It's a complicated situation. We were high school best friends and have drifted as far away from each other philosophically, religiously, and politically as possible. Our spheres don't even touch anymore. Surprised to find that I'm the most supportive of him out of everyone except his future spouse. Essentially we don't have overlapping friend groups and he won't be coming out to my friend until he comes out to the general public.

[Coidzor]

She should let you know what pronouns she wants or you can just ask.

Your wife should basically be calling her whatever you would call her in whatever context.

[goto124]

One is a S sound, like the S in "cats", the other is a Z sound, like the S in "dogs".

They both sound very similar to each other? Or have I been pronouncing them wrong?

[Algeh]

I've taught in "first name" buildings before where teachers went by their first names (and was a student in schools like that myself in middle and high school), but in the school I work in now teachers go by their last names. (I asked after I was hired.) I also went by my first name when I was student teaching because it had been so many years since I'd been in a regular school that I'd kind of forgotten how it worked until after I'd introduced myself (student teaching is a strange experience when you didn't really go through those kinds of schools as a student).

A few of my students do tend to call me by my first name in email (oddly enough, particularly the elementary students placed into upper-grade math classes rather than the actual secondary students), and I actually don't bother to correct that either. For an in-person conversation I would (just like I correct titles), but for email I just make point of signing my name Ms. Lastname and hope they get the hint. (I also go by my first name during our school GSA meetings, because all the staff who attend those meetings do as a way to emphasize to the students that it's not a hierarchical space or a class where we're teaching them things.)

I considered sticking with grad school long enough to get a doctorate and solve the problem that way, but I really, really couldn't face spending that much time doing research rather than interacting with people (I went in computer science before taking a break and switching to secondary teaching). When it got to the point of "better non-gendered title options", "discounted bus pass", and "all my friends have doctorates or are getting them right now" as the only remaining pluses to grad school, it was definitely time to quit and find something I enjoyed more. (I do have a master's degree, but I think if I started making everyone call me "master" it would just be deeply creepy......)

Anyway, this is starting to pull things a bit off topic, so I think I'll just stick with Ms. Lastname for this year and think about it some more for next year. Thanks!

[Chen]

I considered sticking with grad school long enough to get a doctorate and solve the problem that way, but I really, really couldn't face spending that much time doing research rather than interacting with people (I went in computer science before taking a break and switching to secondary teaching). When it got to the point of "better non-gendered title options", "discounted bus pass", and "all my friends have doctorates or are getting them right now" as the only remaining pluses to grad school, it was definitely time to quit and find something I enjoyed more. (I do have a master's degree, but I think if I started making everyone call me "master" it would just be deeply creepy......)

For everyday life a Ph.D isn't going to change the way people address you for the most part. Asking to be called Doctor is just pretentious. Maybe in the workplace, but even then I know a bunch of colleagues with Ph.Ds and no one calls them doctor. In an academic workplace it would probably be more common, but at that point professor tends to work too. If you have a Ph.D and you're teaching high school students though, I wouldn't expect them to call you doctor.

[Heliomance]

They both sound very similar to each other? Or have I been pronouncing them wrong?

Z is voiced, S is unvoiced. I think it was a bad example, though - I don't voice the s of dogs.

For everyday life a Ph.D isn't going to change the way people address you for the most part. Asking to be called Doctor is just pretentious. Maybe in the workplace, but even then I know a bunch of colleagues with Ph.Ds and no one calls them doctor. In an academic workplace it would probably be more common, but at that point professor tends to work too. If you have a Ph.D and you're teaching high school students though, I wouldn't expect them to call you doctor.

It depends - if your workplace is such that first-name terms are the norm, then no, you're not going to get called Doctor, you're going to get called by your first name. If the standard mode of address is <honorific> <surname>, then you should definitely be getting called Dr. If I had a PhD and was a secondary school teacher, I would absolutely expect them to refer to me as Doctor <myname>.

Of course, generally in my experience secondary school students (UK based here) tend to address teachers as "Sir" or "Miss" depending on gender, and not use the surname at all. Having a doctorate would probably not change that.

[noparlpf]

How is "Miz" different from the way "Miss" is pronounced? Makes a difference when writing down though.

It might depend on your regional accent, I dunno. I pronounce "Miss" like "darn, I'm going to miss the bus," "Mrs." like "this guy always misses the bus," and "Ms." (Miz) like the 'z' in "zebra" or "buzz."

[Lissou]

Z is voiced, S is unvoiced. I think it was a bad example, though - I don't voice the s of dogs.

I used the example we had in linguistics for S and Z, didn't realise it didn't work in all dialects/accents. But yes, one if voiced, the other is unvoiced. So, goto, the difference between the two is that Z vibrates your vocal chords and S doesn't. There are may sounds that are paired that way, such as G & K or V & F for instance.

[Coidzor]

They both sound very similar to each other? Or have I been pronouncing them wrong?

Maybe accent, maybe one of those oversights in a person's education that crops up from time to time even under the best of conditions.

Miss you can hiss and Ms. you cannot, if going with the prescribed manner of pronunciation. Also generally miss rhymes with hiss while Ms. would rhyme or be a slant rhyme with his.

[Heliomance]

I used the example we had in linguistics for S and Z, didn't realise it didn't work in all dialects/accents. But yes, one if voiced, the other is unvoiced. So, goto, the difference between the two is that Z vibrates your vocal chords and S doesn't. There are may sounds that are paired that way, such as G & K or V & F for instance.

Interesting - I've just tried voicing that s, and I actually can't do it without making it a separate syllable.

[Asmodean_]

Interesting - I've just tried voicing that s, and I actually can't do it without making it a separate syllable.

And subsequently sounding like Jar Jar Binks?

[JusticeZero]

Still trying to figure out what my orientation is. I have a suspicion that it *might* fall under "sex-positive high libido asexual", but I'm not sure what that would feel like in practice. There's gaps and broken links and relativity and me scratching my head at what some people say involved. So, uh, how would that actually play out in practice?

[EternalMelon]

Still trying to figure out what my orientation is. I have a suspicion that it *might* fall under "sex-positive high libido asexual", but I'm not sure what that would feel like in practice. There's gaps and broken links and relativity and me scratching my head at what some people say involved. So, uh, how would that actually play out in practice?

Something I've learned about recently that might help you or someone else was the idea of four attractions, as follows:

• Sexual: Wanting to have sexual intercourse with someone.
• Physical Wanting to physically touch someone, usually hugging, cuddling, ect.
• Romantic Wanting to be emotionally involved with someone, dating, companionship, ect.
• Aesthetic Wanting to look or appreciate someones appearance.

The last one, Aesthetic Attraction, might cause hang-ups as to figuring out ones own orientation. Usually aesthetic attraction is rolled in with Sexual attraction by non-aces/society, more so than the other 2, and thus isn't given much thought.

That's how I remember it being explained to me. Hope this helps/is accurate. Googling "different types of attractions" might help too for follow up research.

[Icewraith]

Still trying to figure out what my orientation is. I have a suspicion that it *might* fall under "sex-positive high libido asexual", but I'm not sure what that would feel like in practice. There's gaps and broken links and relativity and me scratching my head at what some people say involved. So, uh, how would that actually play out in practice?

Wouldn't "high libido" automatically disqualify "asexual"? If you're usually raring to go but can't identify anyone you actually want to have sex with, maybe demi?

[noparlpf]

Wouldn't "high libido" automatically disqualify "asexual"? If you're usually raring to go but can't identify anyone you actually want to have sex with, maybe demi?

Not exactly. The defining trait of asexuality is not attracted to anybody. Some asexuals have a libido, just with no direction.

Spoiler: TMI

Show

When I was on fluoxetine, I got some really weird atypical side effects. Most people on SSRIs experience some decrease in libido and/or sexual dysfunction. Somehow I got a massive spike in libido, which I don't normally have, so it was a pretty weird experience. But I still wasn't interested in anybody or anything, so it was just a super frustrating nagging feeling with no purpose. (Plus I did experience the normal sexual dysfunction part. My psych was like okay yeah I've never heard of somebody responding like this to an SSRI.) That and other side effects with no appreciable benefit were why I quit that one.

[JusticeZero]

• Sexual: Wanting to have sexual intercourse with someone.
• Physical Wanting to physically touch someone, usually hugging, cuddling, ect.
• Romantic Wanting to be emotionally involved with someone, dating, companionship, ect.
• Aesthetic Wanting to look or appreciate someones appearance.

The last one, Aesthetic Attraction, might cause hang-ups as to figuring out ones own orientation..

I wrote up a really long post about how disconnected the pieces all are, then realized that they had exceptions that I suspect are going to mean that after the HRT starts kicking in, that the whole thing is going to be replaced with a different somewhat inconsistent mishmash. Ugh so confusing. I actually have sexual attraction if I am in the body I don't have right at the moment, if that makes any sense. Mostly important only because my spouse is starting transition in a few weeks. Still, I want to have something vaguely answer-like when people ask.

[EternalMelon]

I wrote up a really long post about how disconnected the pieces all are, then realized that they had exceptions that I suspect are going to mean that after the HRT starts kicking in, that the whole thing is going to be replaced with a different somewhat inconsistent mishmash. Ugh so confusing. I actually have sexual attraction if I am in the body I don't have right at the moment, if that makes any sense. Mostly important only because my spouse is starting transition in a few weeks. Still, I want to have something vaguely answer-like when people ask.

Any reservations about "Grey Ace"?