LGBTAI+ Questions and Discussion thread II: Make It Double

[tantric]

back in the 90s, i was a member of QueerNation. kinda the point was that we were queer - meaning not boring straight. by our language, heterosexuals into kinky stuff were queer, too. it just means 'keep your labels off my body'. i stick to that, though anyone else would call me a gay man, skinny but bearish. at this point, i pretty much loathe mainstream gay culture - 'we're like everybody else, normal, but gay'. the whole bit about wanting to fit in just doesn't fly with me. peace.

[Coidzor]

Still trying to figure out what my orientation is. I have a suspicion that it *might* fall under "sex-positive high libido asexual", but I'm not sure what that would feel like in practice. There's gaps and broken links and relativity and me scratching my head at what some people say involved. So, uh, how would that actually play out in practice?

Sex-positive. Ok. What do you believe that entails? I find that many people have subtle differences in what they mean when they self-describe as sex-positive.

High libido. So you have a lot of urges to get off, frequently?

Asexual. So you don't have desire for your partner sexually? You don't find anyone to be sexually attractive or experience desire to have sex with them?

I'd imagine, from what I've read and discussed with others, that the combination would be someone who isn't repulsed by sex and supports others being sexual and understands their partner having sexual needs if they're in a mixed relationship but does not experience that themselves, but who enjoys getting off and has the desire to do so frequently. But that is off the cuff with but a moment of thought, and doesn't intersect with the internal feelings, really.

[JusticeZero]

Sex-positive. Ok. What do you believe that entails? I find that many people have subtle differences in what they mean when they self-describe as sex-positive.

I'm not sure how to describe that. I like sex, I like to see others like sex, I like to learn about it and teach it and stuff. In my youth I had fantasized about wandering around having fun with various people who were friendly, but clueless and utterly inexperienced. Never really had a body I would feel comfortable doing it with though.

High libido. So you have a lot of urges to get off, frequently?

Accurate. Not freakishly often I suppose. Not overwhelmingly strongly. But daily on average would be nice, maybe with a good range on the average.

Asexual. So you don't have desire for your partner sexually? You don't find anyone to be sexually attractive or experience desire to have sex with them?

That's the bit that bugs me. I don't actually have a good grasp on what that entails. I really don't know what people are seeing that makes them say they are sexually attracted to people. I mean, I like people, I like having sex with people within certain boundaries that are irrational and feel more fear based than anything else, I want to have sex with people as a shared activity, but I'm not sure what other people are talking about when they go off about how sexy such and such actor or musician is.

.. someone who isn't repulsed by sex and supports others being sexual and understands their partner having sexual needs if they're in a mixed relationship but does not experience that themselves, but who enjoys getting off and has the desire to do so frequently.

It's the lack of needs that makes me confused. Because I do have some desire to do stuff with someone, in part because I don't feel all that comfortable being alone with the anatomy attached to me. I just don't know what the difference between "sexual desire for X" versus "Desire for sex, to be done with X" is.

[Eldest]

Demisexual maybe? You're attracted to people you're emotionally close with. The body issues sound like dysphoria.

[Lissou]

I think based on what you've said, you're probably not asexual. I've known some aces who have a high libido, but it usually translates as "gets horny, but isn't interested in sex with other people" and that doesn't seem to describe you.

I understand sexual attraction as "wants to have sex with that person", personally. I may or may not be right. I don't usually want to have sex with people I'm not in a committed relationship with so I may not be your typical sexual person either.

[Coidzor]

The dysmorphia(?) does seem like it would be a major confounding variable that would need to be addressed to get at the crux of the matter. Also irrational fears overwhelming other factors is going to muddy things up too.

Generally sexual attraction is a sort of je ne sais quoi that one gets if one isn't asexual and cannot grok if asexual, so any confusion there would be a point towards being on the asexuality spectrum or having issues with massively over thinking things, or, maybe, not trusting one's subconscious reactions.

[Lissou]

The dysmorphia(?) does seem like it would be a major confounding variable that would need to be addressed to get at the crux of the matter. Also irrational fears overwhelming other factors is going to muddy things up too.

Dismorphia means thinking your body is a way it actually isn't, and being unhappy about the way you think it is (but actually isn't). An example of dismorphia is anorexia, in which you believe you are much bigger than you actually are.

Disphoria is being unhappy with your body the way it actually is. That's the term used for trans people for instance. That's probably what's going on here as well considering JusticeZero is... nonbinary I believe?

[JusticeZero]

Actually, I'm just using she pronouns and treating things as binary transgender at this point. It's easier that way, and I haven't had any dysphoria from girling things up.
Anyways, you were defining sexual attraction as "wants to have sex with that person", which is the piece that I am not sure if I have. :p

[Coidzor]

If one doesn't even experience a wordless or subconscious urge or desire to be sexual with someone, I'd say that sexual attraction is not currently part of the recipe for making that person as they are now.

If one wants to get sexual release and there's a person interested who they like interpersonally and don't think is ugly, so they do sexual things with that person, well, that sounds am awful lot like the kind of thinking/compromise that asexual people who enjoy the physical act of sex have expressed in the discussions I've seen/taken part in.

[Perch]

What you guys think about Wanda, the trans character from Sandman?

[JusticeZero]

If one doesn't even experience a wordless or subconscious urge or desire to be sexual with someone, I'd say that sexual attraction is not currently part of the recipe for making that person as they are now.
If one wants to get sexual release and there's a person interested who they like interpersonally and don't think is ugly, so they do sexual things with that person, well, that sounds am awful lot like the kind of thinking/compromise that asexual people who enjoy the physical act of sex have expressed in the discussions I've seen/taken part in.

It's a more finely tuned thing.
I have sexual fantasies.
I desire to have sex.
With other people*. In a general sense. Faceless fantasies.
But I cannot recall a feeling of "I desire sex WITH YOU" or "He/she's hot".
It's more a sense of "I'd love to have some teamwork style fun in bed. Hey! I'm in a relationship with you, why don't we do that together?" The fact that the gap is so narrow is the part that makes me confused on classification.

[enderlord99]

To what extent is it acceptable to use "tho" as a generic/default pronoun for the third-person singular, as extrapolated from "what," "who," and "that?"

[Jormengand]

To what extent is it acceptable to use "tho" as a generic/default pronoun for the third-person singular, as extrapolated from "what," "who," and "that?"

Irrespective of acceptability, it won't be recognised and there's nothing wrong with the singular they anyway.

[noparlpf]

To what extent is it acceptable to use "tho" as a generic/default pronoun for the third-person singular, as extrapolated from "what," "who," and "that?"

I'm honestly not sure what word you're trying to replace.

[cobaltstarfire]

It's a more finely tuned thing.
I have sexual fantasies.
I desire to have sex.
With other people*. In a general sense. Faceless fantasies.
But I cannot recall a feeling of "I desire sex WITH YOU" or "He/she's hot".
It's more a sense of "I'd love to have some teamwork style fun in bed. Hey! I'm in a relationship with you, why don't we do that together?" The fact that the gap is so narrow is the part that makes me confused on classification.

The ace community probably wouldn't care much that you have a precise label attached. I don't really participate with the community, but from all I've seen it's very open, and accepting of anyone on the spectrum, which can include people who are ace in some ways, but sexual in others.

But if you really must have a label, there are several here which can apply to you.

[enderlord99]

I'm honestly not sure what word you're trying to replace.

Why do I need to be "replacing" anything?

[noparlpf]

Why do I need to be "replacing" anything?

There are already several third-person singular pronouns. I'm sorry, I'm just not really clear what new semantic meaning you're trying to convey. Could you try a few example sentences?

[Coidzor]

To what extent is it acceptable to use "tho" as a generic/default pronoun for the third-person singular, as extrapolated from "what," "who," and "that?"

That's just going to create confusion and look tacky.

There's no moral objection, aside from a position that takes shorthand as immoral instead of just improper or informal.

Why do I need to be "replacing" anything?

Explain what your goals and desires are, then, please.

[Lissou]

"Tho" is already a short form of "though" so that adds to the confusion. And I don't see why you couldn't have a singular "they" since the singular "you" has been accepted for centuries.

[enderlord99]

Upon reflection, I'd probably be better off not meddling with this stuff in English and just making a new language for that.

[Heliomance]

I'm honestly not sure what word you're trying to replace.

Where is it? There.
When is it? Then.
What is it? That.
Who is it? Tho.

That's the intended context, but yeah, no one's going to have a clue what you mean, as evidenced by the fact that no one had a clue what you meant.

[Lissou]

Where is it? There.
When is it? Then.
What is it? That.
Who is it? Tho.

That's the intended context, but yeah, no one's going to have a clue what you mean, as evidenced by the fact that no one had a clue what you meant.

Thanks! I understand the paralel now. I didn't get it at all until I saw all your examples, it's using the same "W turns into T" and some other pronouns. I think everyone's confusion (including mine) shows that most people wouldn't get it at all.

But again, thanks for the explanation, Helio.

[golentan]

Where is it? There.
When is it? Then.
What is it? That.
Who is it? Tho.

That's the intended context, but yeah, no one's going to have a clue what you mean, as evidenced by the fact that no one had a clue what you meant.

Wouldn't that linguistic space already be covered by "them?" Because if we're gonna be revisiting all of english's irregular conjugations and words which seem to not quite fit or come out of the blue we're gonna wind up with a whole 'nother language.

[Serpentine]

Wait, is that what thou was doing?

[Murk]

Because if we're gonna be revisiting all of english's irregular conjugations and words which seem to not quite fit or come out of the blue we're gonna wind up with a whole 'nother language.

Seems Enderlord came to that same conclusion:

Upon reflection, I'd probably be better off not meddling with this stuff in English and just making a new language for that.

[lylsyly]

Wait, is that what thou was doing?

Uh-oh, here we go with the "thou" / "thee" thingy. ;)

[Icewraith]

Upon reflection, I'd probably be better off not meddling with this stuff in English and just making a new language for that.

Result: There are now 17 competing standards.

[Heliomance]

Uh-oh, here we go with the "thou" / "thee" thingy. ;)

Whatever dost thou mean?

[ArlEammon]

I'm not suicidal yet but I need help so I never get there.

[Jormengand]

I'm not suicidal yet but I need help so I never get there.

PM me if you need to.