WW: Shadowrun Edition!

[Lex-Kat]

I'll go for that. Sprig.

[Aventine]

If it has to happen I would prefer it happens with a wog so we don't have to lose a lynch doing it.

Gut feeling on Legato

[Duck999]

Problem is: with a wog, we lose two town members in one day (If the two are town), and if it replaces the night kill, it messes up the game for the wolves, and games with advantages/disadvantages like that aren't as fun.

Sprig until I hear more about the situation.

[Ramsus]

Sprig..... I guess? I'm a little unclear why exactly.

[Sprig]

I haven't had any reply from Avatar.

Basically the vote tally yesterday were wrong. I should have been lynched.

Spoiler: Tally

Show

Vote order.

Penguinator (1.Sprig, 2. Peebles, 9. Legato*)
Sprig (3. Logic, 4. Duck999, 5. Legato* 6. Ramsus)
Legato (7. Aventine, 8. Logic)
*After deadline

The two tallys had one less vote on me then it should. I thought the end tally was two each with penguin getting lynched because he hit two votes first.

The alternative is Avatar included Legato's vote in which case everything is peachy.

However...

If I was Assassins I would be very annoyed if there was a hard deadline. I really want to keep playing but I just don't think it is fair.

Your guys thoughts?

[Legato Endless]

My initial vote on you was cancelled before the deadline I believe. My second vote would not count, but I think Penguin reaching two first makes the verdict valid, depending on how ties are resolved.

[Sprig]

So it was... Oh well, nevermind my own stupidity then :D

You can all get off me now since there is now no valid reason. :D

[Sprig]

Ramsus for yesterdays Penguin defense and non removal of vote.

[Peebles]

Hmm, Ramsus I guess. Definitely a better option than Sprig at the moment.

[Ramsus]

What? Why am I a better option than.... actually no. I'm not even gonna bother. Sure whatever. Let's lynch me for.... what? Not being the guy who tried to get people to kill himself? Or wait, is it being one of multiple people who thought it might not be a good idea to lynch people before they even have a chance to respond to things? I guess I would care more about how this makes no sense if the winning side of this game wasn't a foregone conclusion.

[Peebles]

Or, just perhaps, the player who was at least partially responsible for taking out an Assassin yesterday is worth saving? Only you and Legato have votes, so it had to be one of you two, and Legato voted Penguinator yesterday, eventually.

Seems like a logical vote to me. Unless bacon sandwich suddenly becomes a vote option, in which case count me in.

[Logic]

I can agree on a Ramsus vote.

[Duck999]

I'll vote Ramsus. He tried to defend Penguinator.

Ramsus: I will gladly switch if you bring up a better case for another player or a good case why we should not lynch you.

[Count Dingdong]

So... I've not really been around and keep forgetting this game. I don't like this wagon on Ramsus for... not wanting to kill Penguinator. Perhaps because they're friends? I also didn't want Penguinator to be lynched yesterday (though if I had known him assassin...). My thought was that he's a person that I can generally work with if we're on the same team, and he wasn't shooting willy-nilly which I'm always concerned about with vigs.

What I'm concerned about is that our Shamans can't do anything while the Deckers keep getting sent into hiding during the night. Actually, how do Deckers work per the rules? If they get targeted by the assassins during the night and sent into hiding, do they learn the person who tried to kill them? If they do, wow that's broken. If not, then we still have the problem that there's no one getting killed and thus no one to learn about in death. So my thought is that letting people die might be in our best interest, due to the PRs who learn about them. Heck, even vanilla Chummers can use their powers to find killers. If everyone focuses on one dead player, we can find the killer. And then move on to the next night's kill, since that's required to be a new person. But we need dead players for that to happen... >.>

Anyway, Logic has been reading weirdly to me... And if you want someone protecting Penguinator, he's the one who was more actively pushing the wagon to Sprig... ((And in order for people to actually die in the night, we need to rid Deckers of their protection...))

[Duck999]

Can I get some more explanation of your Logic vote? I kind of want a counter wagon. I realize now what could be happening. Something that happens to me sometimes: Someone defends someone else legitimately thinking that they are town, and then they flip wolf. However, I will keep my vote for Ramsus until I get the explanation of the vote for Logic or a better counter wagon.

[Logic]

Infiltrators are sent into hiding in the night. Not the Deckers. (Unless I seriously misread the roles and rules.)

EDIT: I was correct; Sphazre and ThePhantom are both infiltrators and have gone incognito.

Which leads me to believe that their power set should not be part of the publicly known (for future games) because it currently renders them immune to the first nightkills, giving the assassins a serious disadvantage.

Why would the assassins target the infiltrators when it is public knowledge that they can't be nightkilled initially?

[Count Dingdong]

...I did forget which role was which. My bad. It is Infiltrators that go into hiding. >.< I, uh... don't actually know why I combined Deckers with Infiltrators? *facepalm*

Then... are there any infiltrators who haven't gone into hiding? gingersnap could be a good possibility, since that's the next "obvious" kill (assassins seem to want to avoid actually killing people right now, since it means they can't be found out?).

Anyway, the Logic vote was because of this post where he starts the Sprig wagon due to not wanting to kill the remaining Cyber-Samurai (who happens to be assassin). He continues with that idea later, and when he finally changes his vote, it's not to Penguinator but to Legato.

[Logic]

My vote on Sprig was because he said "we shouldn't have lynched the cyber-samurai" then he voted to kill our other one. My switch was because Sprig explained himself (to where I could understand what his point all along was.) Yet, I wasn't entirely sold on Penguinator, perhaps he was only inactive, so I chose to vote for the player that, as Aventine pointed out, was advocating for townies with multiple lives to simply give them up.

Today, I agree with Sprig, and my day one gut-feeling vote against Ramsus. Legato is a good second choice, but seeing as only Aventine is going that way (unless I missed someone) I don't think that Legato is going bye-bye.

[Sprig]

I could go with Duck over Ramsus. I find it ironic for accusing Ramsus when he was in the same boat. I only picked Ramsus over Duck originally because he was online long enough to see the thread and yet didn't remove his vote on me.

Not sold on logic. While he didn't vote for Pengu it was his action that lead to Pengu's lynch.

[Duck999]

I could go with Duck over Ramsus. I find it ironic for accusing Ramsus when he was in the same boat. I only picked Ramsus over Duck originally because he was online long enough to see the thread and yet didn't remove his vote on me.

Not sold on logic. While he didn't vote for Pengu it was his action that lead to Pengu's lynch.

What happened with me is what I explained about legitimately thinking someone was town (or hoping they were because their role could be useful). I was, obviously, wrong. I would like to hear from Ramsus on that topic. I personally thought that it would be good to test a cyber-samurai before killing them because of the benefits of having one on town's side.

[Ramsus]

A lot of time I'm "online" but not actually checking things here. Also I'm sure for plenty of that time I was working on my new game. That people should totally join. Plug plug plug.

As for why the Assassins are targeting the guys they know they can't kill? Maybe they're just trying to be confusing or avoiding Decker scries. Or maybe they're rebelling against the guy forcing them into killing their friends.

I don't really have any reasons for anyone to vote for anyone right now, so I can't really say anyone is a better choice than I am.

Edit: About not voting for Penguinator? Yeah, I just wanted to give him a chance to actually say something before we killed him.

[Legato Endless]

So my thought is that letting people die might be in our best interest, due to the PRs who learn about them. Heck, even vanilla Chummers can use their powers to find killers. If everyone focuses on one dead player, we can find the killer. And then move on to the next night's kill, since that's required to be a new person. But we need dead players for that to happen... >.>

Agreed.

Why would the assassins target the infiltrators when it is public knowledge that they can't be nightkilled initially?

Because getting a townie lynched is superior to night killing one in this set up. The infiltrator isn't actually helpful to the town in this set up based on its power role. It's only boon is giving a decent player more time to analyze, and that's only assuming they'd be killed early on anyway. Sans that possibility, both of its powers are anti-town, because they deny information.

Then... are there any infiltrators who haven't gone into hiding? gingersnap could be a good possibility, since that's the next "obvious" kill (assassins seem to want to avoid actually killing people right now, since it means they can't be found out?).

Actually, someone should probably PM Gingersnap and hope her settings are set for email update. New player who joined a game that didn't start in a month is a good recipe for a forgotten profile. But for obvious reasons, I support this general idea, the infiltrators extra lives really aren't a boon to the town.

Vecna, when do players auto-out of the game? Is it three days like the usual?

I'm not too fond of lynching Ramsus over so little. Nor do I care for the fast chaining bandwagon on Sprig.

[AvatarVecna]

Vecna, when do players auto-out of the game? Is it three days like the usual?

Standard 3 days, although I'm not sure if the standard refers to in-thread action, or action in general: gingersnap is a RL friend I talked into playing; they had some computer problems during the first two day phases, and I can tell you that they've been more active in their QT than they are in-thread (and more active in their own QT than a handful of other players have been in theirs:small annoyed:). Anyway, I'll give 'em a poke over FB; maybe that'll get them to post in-thread.

[Sprig]

A lot of time I'm "online" but not actually checking things here. Also I'm sure for plenty of that time I was working on my new game. That people should totally join. Plug plug plug.

As for why the Assassins are targeting the guys they know they can't kill? Maybe they're just trying to be confusing or avoiding Decker scries. Or maybe they're rebelling against the guy forcing them into killing their friends.

I don't really have any reasons for anyone to vote for anyone right now, so I can't really say anyone is a better choice than I am.

Edit: About not voting for Penguinator? Yeah, I just wanted to give him a chance to actually say something before we killed him.

Happy with most of that, however while you conveniently leave your vote on someone who was keen to lynch the assassin, my vote wont be changing.

[Count Dingdong]

I'll back a gingersnap13 lynch in order to force the Assassins to actually kill someone tonight...

[Duck999]

I'll go off Ramsus. Giving someone a chance to talk is something I support.
However, gingersnap does not seem to be coming around soon, so I will back that one.

[Logic]

I'll back a gingersnap13 lynch in order to force the Assassins to actually kill someone tonight...

I disagree, slightly. If the assassins want to waste their nightkills on the infiltrators, let them.

The only possibility I can think of is that renders my point moot is that if all the infiltrators are assassins, and are buying time by "killing" themselves and letting us lynch a smaller pool of targets.

[Ramsus]

Sprig, I left my vote on you because at the time I wasn't seeing any good targets. But sure, I'll vote for gingersnap.

[Logic]

Duck, you are double voting.

[Count Dingdong]

I disagree, slightly. If the assassins want to waste their nightkills on the infiltrators, let them.

Consider how people can die. With the Cyber-Samurai dead, the assassins can only die during lynches, so it is good to actually use our lynches. However, townies can die during lynch or night-kill. If they die during the lynch, they can't tell us anything except perhaps through Shamans. And even then, not many people know anyone's loyalty role, so Shamans can't do much. What's important for town is that townies die during the night. Once people have been assassinated, we can use our Chummer powers to find the rest of the assassins (part of the broken part of this game...). By getting rid of "non-kills" for the assassins, we force them to kill someone (or kill no one) and open themselves up for investigation by every vanilla townie. The only assassins who are "safe" from investigation are Infiltrator assassins, as they can't be scried.

...in fact, I'd probably advocate Infiltrator lynches in the future (until we find killers through nilla scries), as the only perhaps helpful Infiltrator alignment is Streetwise. Clueless is a forever-Fool, Chummer is a never-confirmed townie, and Assassin is wolf. As Legato mentioned, the Infiltrators' powers are anti-town, and I'm sorry for the people who randed them, as it automatically makes them lynch priority (same with Cyber-Samurai for poor vigging or the like; though Sprig did bring up a good point that they can be easily cleared through Decker/Shaman combo).