PF - Warcraft Inspired Warlock

[BananaPhone]

I'm taking my first shot at designing a class for Pathfinder and it is inspired by my favorite blight-on-all-that-is-good from WoW - Warlocks. They may have gone from pushovers in early vanilla, to holy-****-run-away scary during BC to the abysmal state that they are in now as of writing this, but the theme for a dark, demonic-energy channeling magician is something I've always liked and felt hasn't been implemented in D&D/PF in an incarnation that I like (Diabolists being the exception). And thus I venture into the unexplored territory of Homebrew. Though I seek to make a flavorful and strong class, knowing me it'll probably turn out to be stupidly OP and requiring reigning in.

However, I envision this project taking a long time to complete - so there's lots of room for feedback to keep things under control! As you might tell from the quotes I use, I don't take myself too seriously.

Some things I plan on including are damage-over-time spells, the ability to drain life from their enemies, a high hit point pool which they'll need to power metamagic applications to their spells, summonable pets which give various buffs to the warlock and their party, special rituals etc. An important thing to remember, however, is that this class is inspired by warlocks, not a direct conversion. I'll be adding stuff so that they are comparable/competitive/helpful in later level play outside of just flinging around damage.

12/08/15 Update: I like where 90% of the class is as the moment.

The core abilities, Corruption, Curse of Agony and Siphon Life, are being discussed.

Also, the spell list will soon undergo pruning to tighten the themes.

The Warlock



"There exists no freedom from me. There is only freedom through me."

Power is a tempting, demanding mistress whose embrace many of the mortal races have striven for. Some have killed for it. Others have lied. Some turn inwards and train themselves in the pursuit of the excellence that they believe will grant them the power that they so desire. Then there are warlocks, for whom power just comes naturally.

A blessed, or some would say cursed, people, warlocks have at one point in their history been touched by the fel powers of the infernal planes. Whether an ancestor consorted with demonic agents or their studies of the magical lured them into the darker recesses of eldritch education, the result is the same. Like their sorcerous kin whose draconic influence permits them to manifest their will through the arcane, warlocks can entwine their fingers into the threads of reality and shift them into a form that they find most pleasing. Unfortunately for the world at large this form is all-too commonly one of dominance, anguish and subjugation.

A driven and willful breed of spellcaster, warlocks are masters of creation, shadow and hellfire. There are few hurdles that are sacred to them, as testified by their habit of sacrificing their own life essence to fuel their spells before ripping such precious residue from the souls of their enemies in order to make their foes pay the price for their own ambition. Unfortunately such self-interest is the hallmark of a warlocks attitude and though there are a rare few that look upon their mortal brethren with a protective eye, far too many see instead the future subjects of their dark kingdoms.

Typically blessed with powerful constitutions and forceful personalities, these infernal sorcerers take to imposing their will on others as naturally as the fighter swings a blade, and were it not for the call of magic such beings would surely come to dominate whatever social circle they so desired. But, blessed with the arcane they are, and as such the secret covens formed by these grim magicians are truly a nexus of political and magical power whose reach can extend much further than their enemies believe.



Adventures: The search for power and understanding is unending in the world of a Warlock. Whether they seek to further their mystical power, social potency or search for new and exotic demons to enslave to their will, Warlocks need little convincing to hit the road.

Alignments: Any non-good. Though self-interested and driven by ambition, an evil murderer this does not make (though they typically are). Likewise, self-discipline is a necessary trait for any warlock seeking to resist the enslavement of the very demons with which they traffic, and as such there are very few Chaotic warlocks. The most common alignment would be Lawful Evil, followed by Lawful Neutral.

Other Classes: A warlocks ability to synergise with other classes depends heavily upon the personality of the individual warlock. As a powerful spell-caster with a clearly hellish origin, they may be naturally devisive beings for good-aligned clerics and paladins to work with. Meanwhile wizards typically resent what they see as a lack of discipline while fellow sorcerers are usually suspicious of a fellow spontaneous caster whose magic speaks of a infernal legacy. However, the most successful warlocks are those who have learned the value in cooperation and in an environment free of egotism a warlock has a lot to offer to a party who will trust them.

Role: Warlocks command a host of vicious offensive spells and a respectable contingent of abilities that they can use to provide support and utility to their friends. As such, they are capable of being a primary caster within a group, where their higher hit point pool and life-draining abilities allow them a degree of autonomy from the healing and protection usually required to sustain a caster.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Warlocks have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Warlocks have compelling personalities and powerful constitutions that they constantly torture to empower their spells. As such, Charisma is the primary spell-casting statistic for a warlock, while Constitution plays an invaluable role for providing the warlock with a large pool of hitpoints to employ metamagic.
Alignment: Any Non-good.
Hit Die: D12.
Starting Age: As Sorcerer.
Starting Gold: As Sorcerer.

Class Skills:
The Warlock's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are:
Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana, Planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points at First Level: 4 + Int modifier
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Table; The Warlock

		Saves				Spells Per Day
Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th
1st	+0	+2	+0	+2	Infernal Tongues Life Tap Corruption Eschew Materials Cantrips Grimoire	1	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
2nd	+1	+3	+0	+3		2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
3rd	+1	+3	+1	+3	Curse of Agony	3	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
4th	+2	+4	+1	+4		3	1	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
5th	+2	+4	+1	+4	Curse of Tongues	3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
6th	+3	+5	+2	+5	Siphon Life Macabre Thesis I	3	2	1	—	—	—	—	—	—
7th	+3	+5	+2	+5		3	3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—
8th	+4	+6	+2	+6		3	3	3	1	—	—	—	—	—
9th	+4	+6	+3	+6		3	3	3	2	—	—	—	—	—
10th	+5	+7	+3	+7	Bonus feat	3	3	3	2	1	—	—	—	—
11th	+5	+7	+3	+7	Fearless	3	3	3	3	2	—	—	—	—
12th	+6/+1	+8	+4	+8	Macabre Thesis II	3	3	3	3	2	1	—	—	—
13th	+6/+1	+8	+4	+8		3	3	3	3	3	2	—	—	—
14th	+7/+2	+9	+4	+9		3	3	3	3	3	2	1	—	—
15th	+7/+2	+9	+5	+9		3	3	3	3	3	2	1	—	—
16th	+8/+3	+10	+5	+10		3	3	3	3	3	3	1	1	—
17th	+8/+3	+10	+5	+10		3	3	3	3	3	3	2	2	—
18th	+9/+4	+11	+6	+11	Macabre Thesis III	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2	1
19th	+9/+4	+11	+6	+11		3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2
20th	+10/+5	+12	+6	+12		3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3

Table: Warlock Spells Known

Level	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
1	4	2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
2	5	2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
3	5	3	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
4	6	3	1	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
5	6	4	2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
6	7	4	2	1	—	—	—	—	—	—
7	7	5	3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—
8	8	5	3	2	1	—	—	—	—	—
9	8	5	4	3	2	—	—	—	—	—
10	9	5	4	3	2	1	—	—	—	—
11	9	5	5	4	3	2	—	—	—	—
12	9	5	5	4	3	2	1	—	—	—
13	9	5	5	4	4	3	2	—	—	—
14	9	5	5	4	4	3	2	1	—	—
15	9	5	5	4	4	4	3	2	—	—
16	9	5	5	4	4	4	3	2	1	—
17	9	5	5	4	4	4	3	3	2	—
18	9	5	5	4	4	4	3	3	2	1
19	9	5	5	4	4	4	3	3	3	2
20	9	5	5	4	4	4	3	3	3	3

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Warlocks are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a warlock's gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail (see Arcane Spells and Armor).

Warlock Spells:

A warlock casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the warlock spell list. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a warlock must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a warlock's spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer's Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a warlock can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Warlock Spells Known. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

A warlock's selection of spells is extremely limited. A warlock begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new warlock level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Warlock Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Warlock Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the warlock spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the Warlock has gained some understanding of through study.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered Warlock level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a Warlock can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. In effect, the warlock loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A Warlock may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level.

Unlike a wizard or a cleric a warlock need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Additionally, a Warlock applies metamagic as would a sorcerer.

Warlock Spell List:

0-level Warlock Spells (cantrips)
Arcane Mark, Daze, Detect Magic, Light, Message, Putrefy Food and Drink, Read Magic, Resistance, Touch of Fatigue, Spark, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation.

1st level Warlock Spells:
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Mage Armor, Comprehend Languages, Identify, Blood Money, Cause Fear, Command, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shadow Weapon, Sleep, Unseen Servant, Magic Missile, Touch of Combustion, Summon Monster I, Burning Hands, Feather Fall.

2nd level Warlock Spells:
Obscure Object, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law Communal, Resist Energy, Create Pit, Dusk of Twilight, Fiery Shuriken, Hideous Laughter, Touch of Idiocy, Burning Gaze, Continual Flame, Darkness, Fire Breath, Flaming Sphere, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray, Scare, Sentry Skull, Summon Monster II, Spectral Hand, Blood Armor, Darkvision, Disfiguring Touch, Molten Orb, Pyrotechnics, Time Shudder.

3th level Warlock Spells:
Dispel Magic, Arcane Sight, Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Nondetection, Protection from Energy, Resist Energy Communal, Ash Storm, Sepia Snake Sigil, Spiked Pit, Hold Person, Rage, Blacklight, Call the Void, Fireball, Accursed Glare, Aura of Cannibalism, Pain Strike, Howling Agony, Summon Monster III, Ray of Exhaustion, Flame Arrow, Slow, Water Breathing, Fly, Vampiric Touch, Vision of Hell

4th level Warlock Spells:
Dimensional Anchor, Fire Trap, Globe of Lesser Invulnerability, Communal Nondetection, Remove Curse, True Form, Acid Pit, Black Tentacles, Dimension Door, Detonate, Dragons’ Breath, Greater Flaming Sphere, Volcanic Storm, Wall of Fire, Phantasmical Killer, Bestow Curse, Symbol of Revelation, Bloatbomb, Contagion, Summon Monster IV, Enervation, Fear, Curse of Burning Sleep, Firefall, Obsidian Flow, Scorching Ash Form, Symbol of Slowing.

5th level warlock spells:
Break Enchantment, Dismissal, Cloudkill, Hungry Pit, Planar Binding Lesser, Summon Infernal Host, Dominate Person, Symbol of Sleep, Fire Snake, Summon Monster V, Mass Pain Strike, Black Spot, Phantasmical Grasp, Blight, Blood Boil, Feast on Fear, Magic Jar, Symbol of Pain, Hungry Earth, Vampiric Shadow Shield, Symbol of Striking, Teleport, Overland Flight.

6th level warlock spells:
Antimagic Field, Greater dispel magic, Globe of Invulnerability, Planar Binding, Chains of Fire, Contagious Flame, Symbol of Persuasion, Summon Monster VI, Hellfire Ray, Sirocco, Shadow Walk, Circle of Death, Greater Contagion, Major Curse, Symbol of Fear, Disintegrate, Tar Pool.

7th level warlock spells:
Banishment, Caustic Eruption, Create Lesser Demiplane, Instant Summons, Phase Door, Plane Shift, Greater Arcane Sight, Insanity, Summon Monster VII, Delayed Blast Fireball, Hungry Darkness, Scouring Winds, Epidemic, Finger of Death, Plague Storm, Symbol of Weakness, Firebrand, Mass Fly, Mass Planar Adaption, Greater Teleport.

8th level warlock spells:
Dimensional Lock, Mind Blank, Greater Spell Absorption, Create Demiplane, Incendiary Cloud, Maze, Greater Planar Binding, Rift of Ruin, Trap the Soul, Summon Monster XIII, Wall of Lava, Symbol of Insanity, Sunburst, Clone, Orb of the Void, Symbol of Death.

9th level warlock spells:
Freedom, Imprisonment, Mages Disjunction, Create Greater demiplane, Gate, Dominate Monster, Meteor Swarm, Weird, Astral Projection, Energy Drain, Summon Monster IX, Soul Bind, Etherealness, Fiery Body, Time Stop, Transmute Blood to Acid, Teleportation Circle.


Special Abilities:

Cantrips:
Warlocks learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Warlock Spells Known under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.

Eschew Materials:
At first level, Warlocks gain the feat Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.

Infernal Tongues:
During character creation, Warlock characters are also allowed to choose Infernal and Abyssal as bonus languages if they have the intelligence modifiers to choose bonus languages.

Shadow Damage:
A number of the Warlocks abilities inflict new type of energy damage, Shadow. Mechanically, Shadow damage is Negative damage, however beings usually healed by Negative damage are instead damaged as normal.

Grimoire:

Every Warlock possess a depository into which they pen their experiences, notes and discovered lore. This tome lacks the academic structure of a wizard's spell book as the contents of each book and its organisation is unique to the Warlock that created it. Make no mistake however, for these items are not merely textual accounts, but invaluable sums of the Warlocks knowledge.

Beginning at level 1 the Warlock owns a Grimoire, which costs and weighs the same as a wizards spell book. This book is the cornerstone of two area's of the warlocks expertise: Rituals and Macabre Thesis.

Macabre Thesis: Over the course of the Warlocks career they will develop several Macabre Thesis. Each thesis represents several chapters of ruminations and discussions involving the Warlocks growing understanding and power. The acquirement of each Thesis at level 6, 12 and 18 represents the completion of one such thesis. As long as the Warlock retains ownership of their grimoire then they retain the powers as bestowed by Macabre Thesis. Should their grimoire be removed from their possession however, then the abilities granted by Macabre Thesis will rescind from the Warlocks power until they are unable to exploit it. This is represented by the Warlock losing access to their Macabre Thesis III 24 hours after no longer possessing their Thesis, losing access to their Macabre Thesis II 48 hours after no longer possessing their grimoire and no longer possessing their Macabre Thesis I 72 hours after no longer possessing their grimoire. Should the warlock re-acquire their grimoire intact then they regain the use of their Macabre Thesis in the opposite order, so restoration of Macabre Thesis I 24 hours after re-acquiring their grimoire, etc.

Rituals: The warlocks developing experience is what allows them to formulate and design their rituals that they then meticulously catalogue within their grimoire. If a Warlock ever comes across a spell upon a scroll that is from the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list, they may scribe that spell into their grimoire at a rate of one hour per spell level. Henceforth they are able to cast that spell as a ritual.

To cast a spell as a ritual the warlock must gather the spell components that the spell would normally need. These are placed within a mastercrafted silver bowl of no less than 500 gp value. The warlock then strips themelves bare and draws a masterwork dagger across their body, causing their blood to spill forth into the silver bowl. This process requires the sacrifice of 3 hit points per level of the spell attempting to be cast. The lacerations the warlock performs on themselves will cease bleeding once the ritual commences.

The Warlock then chants uninterrupted for one hour per level of the spell attempting to be cast as a ritual. At the end of this time the Warlock makes a Caster Level check equal to 10 + (2 * the level of the spell). Passing this test indicates a sucessful ritual and the spell is cast as normal. Failure means that the ritual fizzles into nothing, with all the spell components being ruined in the process. The silver bowl and masterwork dagger, however, will remain unaffected and can be used for as many rituals as the Warlock desires.

There are several ways in which the Warlock can increase their chances of success in this endeavor, and may, if they so choose, do one of the following at the rituals completion but before they make their Caster level check:

• Burn a bouquet of flowers (+1 to their CL check).
  
  
• Drink a glass full of tears from a source of holiness such Lawful Good Paladins, Clerics and Oracles (+2 to their CL check).
  
  
• Perform a ritualistic dance for the duration of the ritual. This requires a Fortitude save equal to the DC of the ritual being cast. Failure means that the warlock over-exerts themselves, becomes fatigued and is no longer able to continue (+3 to their CL check if successful).
  
  
• Sacrifice a lamb, rabbit or some other symbol of good according to the Warlocks culture, draining the creatures blood into the bowl along with their own. Once this is done the contents of the silver bowl go up in a bluish flame that crackles with the laughter of demons and whose form shifts with their laughing skulls (+4 to their CL check).

Only a single bonus to the Warlocks Caster Level check may be acquired in this manner.

Replacement: Should a Warlocks grimoire ever be destroyed, then a terrible calamity has befallen the warlock. In order to restore their trove of knowledge, the Warlock must spend time in meditation and reflection in order to reconstitute their grimoire. To reflect this, the Warlock must obtain a new grimoire at the same cost as a wizards spell book. They may then begin re-writing their grimoire at a rate of one class level per month and a cost of 2,000 gc per month. Take note that the grimoire offers insight into the arcane, but it is not a magic item itself. Therefore if it is subjected to an antimagic field, Mage's Disjunction or other such magic nullifying process, the grimoire is unaffected.

Life Tap:
The Warlock sacrifices motes of their own life force to power their magic. As a free action a Warlock is able to sacrifice hit points in order to restore spent spells per day on a 3-hp-per-level basis. For example, in order to restore a 5th level spell-per-day, the warlock would have to sacrifice 15 hit points. A Warlock can do this a total number of times per day equal to 3 + their constitution modifier.

Additionally, a warlock may spend more hit points in order to reduce the action time required to apply metamagic to their spells. The number of hitpoints required to be sacrificed is equal to two times the level of the spell, multiplied by the level adjustment of the metamagic feat. For example, a warlock that wished to apply the Maximise Spell metamagic feat to a fireball has two options. They may apply it as normal and take a full round action to cast the spell. However, they could also use Life Tap to sacrifice 18 hit points (2 times 3rd level spell multiplied by 3 metamagic level modifier) in order to reduce the normal full round action to a standard action. The Warlock may also reduce the casting time a further step (so standard action becomes a move action) if they instead sacrifice triple they would normally forfeit. So in the previous example, the warlock decides to then cast their Maximised Fireball as a move action, sacrificing 54 hit points to do so.

The number of hit points required for sacrifice cannot be mitigated in any way, such as though Soul Collector or any form of Damage Reduction, for example.

Corruption:
The Warlock wills an affliction upon a chosen opponent and leaves them to rot away from its entropic touch. Corruption is a Spell-like Ability that takes a standard action to cast and has a range of 30 + 5 ft. per caster level that requires a Ranged Touch Attack to hit and inflicts 1d6 Shadow Damage per caster level (rounded down), to a minimum of 1d6. This spell remains on a target for 1 round per 2 caster levels (rounded down) for a minimum of 1 round. Only one corruption can be active upon a target at a time.

Corruption may also be modified by metamagic. If done so its "spell level" is considered one half of the Warlocks caster level, with a maximum level of 9. Corruption is subject to Spell Resistance. Corruption can be pre-maturely removed by a successful Dispel, Greater Dispel, Restoration, Greater Restoration, Mage's Disjunction or antimagic field. Corruption may only be cast once per round.

Curse of Agony:
The Warlock curses their target with a spell that twists nerves, twists muscles and oscillates bone for a period of terrible anguish. Curse of Agony is a Spell-like Ability with a range of 30 + 5ft. per caster level that require a Ranged Touch Attack to hit and inflicts 1d6 Shadow damage per 3 caster levels, for a minimum of 1d6. This spell remains on a target for 1 round per caster level and requires a standard action to cast. Only one Curse can be active upon a target at a time.

Curse of Agony may also be modified by metamagic. If done so its "spell level" is considered one half of the Warlocks caster level, with a maximum level of 9. Curse of Agony is subject to Spell Resistance. Curse of Agony can be pre-maturely removed by a successful Dispel, Greater Dispel, Mage's Disjunction or antimagic field or remove curse. Curse of Agony may only be cast once per round.

Curse of Tongues:
The Warlock inflicts a curse upon their target that causes them to begin speaking gibberish in a guttural, alien language that is completely unknown to them. While the target is still able to fulfill the verbal component when casting their own spells, doing so takes greater time due to their gabled speech. As such, casting actions for the afflicted target require an increased level of action to complete. So a spell that normally takes a full round action would take two full round actions to cast, a standard action would instead take a full round action, a move action would take a standard action and a free action would take a move action.

This is a Spell-like Ability with a range of 30 + 5 ft. per caster level, remains on the target for 1 round per caster level, requires a standard action to cast and requires a successful Ranged Touch Attack to hit. Only one Curse can be active upon a target at a time. Curse of Tongues is subject to Spell Resistance. Curse of Tongues can be pre-maturely removed by a successful dispel, Mage's Disjunction, antimagic field or remove curse. Curse of Tongues may only be cast once per round.

Siphon Life:
The Warlock targets an opponent with a parasitic spell that rots away at the energies that give them animation and returns them to Warlock to supplement their own life force. Siphon Life is a Spell-like Ability that requires a standard action to cast, with a range of 30 + 5ft. per caster level that inflicts 1d6 Shadow damage per 3 caster levels. This spell remains on a target for 1 round per 2 caster levels. Damaged caused by this spell is then added to the Warlock in the form of hit points. This cannot increase the Warlocks hit point total above its maximum, unless modified by Macabre Thesis I (see below). Additionally, no hit points are returned to the warlock from damage caused to summoned creatures beneath the Warlocks control.

Siphon Life may also be modified by metamagic. If done so its "spell level" is considered one half of the Warlocks caster level, with a maximum level of 9. Siphon Life is subject to Spell Resistance. Finally, if the Warlock has an active, summoned demon then they too receive an equal amount of points from this ability. Siphon Life can be pre-maturely removed by a successful Dispel, Greater Dispel, Restoration, Greater Restoration, Mage's Disjunction or antimagic field. Siphon Life may only be cast once per round.

Bonus Feat:
At level 10, the warlock gains a bonus feat that they may choose from the Item Creation feats. The warlock must still meet the prerequisites to select the feat.

Fearless:
By 11th level, the Warlock has become so inundated with the infernal and the demonic, that very little is capable of frightening them. As such, Warlocks of this level and beyond are immune to Fear effects such as the spell Cause Fear, and intimidation skill checks. In addition, the Warlock receives +3 bonus to Willpower saves to resist Mind Affecting spells such as Dominate Person.


Macabre Thesis:

Spoiler: Macabre Thesis

Show

Macabre Thesis:

As the Warlock gains experience their knowledge of the tapestry that holds the infernal planes together increase by magnitudes - and knowledge is power. The Macabre Thesis represents the continued study and understanding of the Warlock and as such its prose represents growing personal aptitude.

Macabre Thesis I: The Warlock has advanced beyond the trappings of an acolyte. In some ways this is the greatest advancement for few of these dark casters survive to this level of competence. However, it is also a time of sober reflection in the prediction that their path is only going to become further cluttered with danger. Choose one of the following. Once chosen, the decision cannot be reversed.

• Soul Leech: Whenever the Warlocks Corruption spell causes damage, half of this damage is returned to the Warlock in the form of hit points. This can increase the Warlocks hit point total above normal levels by maximum of 4 times their caster level as temporary hit points. So a Warlock of 10th caster level could increase their maximum hit point total by 40 temporary hit points. If the Warlock has an active, summoned minion from Summon Monster, Planar Binding or Gate spell line, then they also gain the healing benefits of this thesis. Additionally, no hit points are returned to the warlock from damage caused to summoned creatures beneath the Warlocks control.
  
  
• Soul Collector: The Warlock can store a copy of a creatures personality within a gem of value no less than 10gp. Should the creature die, this gem can then be used as the material component for a resurrection spell. The gem is consumed during the spell. Additionally, while a creatures personality is stored, no single source of damage can cause more than 30 hit points of damage. Only one copy of a creature may be stored at a time.
  
  
• Lingering Torment: Four times a day, whenever the Warlock inflicts hit point damage with a spell they may modify the spell to inflict half its damage again for as many rounds as the spell has levels. For example, a Fireball cast by a 6th level warlock would initially inflict 6d6 damage. If modified by Lingering Torment, this spell would then cause a further 3d6 damage each round for 3 more rounds. This additional damage is a continuation of the original spell and so subject to its same characteristics (such as Fireball inflicting fire damage, etc). Lingering Torment may not modify Corruption, Curse of Agony or Siphon Life.

Macabre Thesis II: The Warlock is now truly a powerful being in the world and an expert demonologist. They have florished in a merciless and unforgiving environment that has brought low stalwart heroes. Were this Warlock among the ranks of a wizardly academy, they should surely be a respected educator. Choose one of the following. Once chosen, the decision cannot be reversed.

• Harvest Life: The warlock is capable of casting Harvest Life, ripping the life force from an enemy and drawing it into themselves in an impressive magical display which enriches the warlock and leaves the target numb and drained. The Warlock makes a ranged touch attack as a standard action with a range of 100 ft. +10 ft. per caster level, ignoring Spell Resistance and doing 1d8 Shadow damage per caster level of the warlock. For every point of damage inflicted in this manner the Warlock receives a hit point, up to their maximum hit points. Additionally, if the Warlock uses a full round action to cast this spell, they may instead make a ranged touch attach against as many targets that are within 50 ft. of the original target as the Warlock has caster levels, dividing the damage dice up per target as they see fit, to a minimum of 1d8 per target. Finally, any target hit by this spell must make a fortitude save against a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the Warlocks caster level + the Warlocks Charisma modifier. Failure means that the target may only make either a single move action or a single standard action until the start of the Warlocks next turn, while this aspect of the spell is negated if the test is passed. Additionally, no hit points are returned to the warlock from damage caused to summoned creatures beneath the Warlocks control.
  
  
• Soul Link: The Warlock has developed a level of dominance over their enslaved demons to such a degree that they are capable of transferring their own inhibitions onto their pets, forcing them to act as sacrificial lambs. Whenever the Warlock has an active summoned creature from the Summon Monster, Planar Binding or Gate spell line they may transfer half of any final damage they receive onto their demon (ie. after damage reduction). Additionally, whenever the Warlock has an active demon summoned, they receive a +2 Insight bonus to their Fortitude, Reflex and Willpower, with an additional +1 per five caster levels.
  
  
• Fire and Brimstone: The Warlock gathers their destructive power and spreads them across their enemies like a vile contagion. Four times a day the Warlock may modify any damage-dealing spell (whether hit point or statistic damage) to affect a number of other targets equal to their caster level that are within 50 ft. of the original target. These targets must make saves or must be hit as normal, however they take one half of the damage suffered by the original target. Spells with an area of effect (such as fireball) incur only damage and do not replicate the area of effect centering on the position of the new targets.

Macabre Thesis III: The Warlock has become a master of their shadow and hellfire. Their personal journey through the horrors of the world and the infernal planes that they manipulate has produced an individual of fantastic power and insight and whose name is most certainly known to the hellish overlords of such torturous places. Choose one of the following. Once chosen, the decision cannot be reversed.

• Soulburn: The Warlocks spells have been tuned to such a malignant degree that they are capable of penetrating the most stalwart of defenses. The Warlocks Corruption, Curse of Agony and Harvest Life now ignore any form of Damage Reduction, Energy Resistance, and any other spell, spell-like ability, supernatural ability, extraordinary or feats or any other type of influence that would reduce its damage. Additionally, whenever a creature dies while a target of the Warlocks Corruption, Curse of Agony or Harvest Life it is treated as if having been targeted by the Triggered Object option of the 8th level spell Trap the Soul, with the targets soul being deposited into a gem on the Warlocks person of a value no less than 10gp.
  
  
• Demonic Transfusion: The Warlock draws in the raw magical ether of the infernal planes and builds upon themselves a body that is not quite human, nor demon, but something else. The Warlock can take on their demonic form at will. This form takes the physical image of the players choosing which is determined when choosing this Thesis, however they remain medium-sized and their type is unchanged. When in their demonic form, the Warlock gains Immunity to fire and poison, resistance 10 to acid and cold, See in Darkness (Su), 100 ft. Telepathy, DR 15/Magic and Bludgeoning, a Natural Armor improvement of +10 and pair of wings that allow them to Fly at 60 feet per round with Perfect maneuverability.
  
  
• Hellfire Mastery: The Warlock has mastered their destructive arts and becomes unto a painter exerting precise and expressive control over their devastating spells. First, the Warlock chooses a single spell that they can cast that causes damage. They can now cast this spell 3 extra times a day as a Spell-like Ability. Second, the Warlock is now able to substitute the energy type of their spells with that of another (acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic) 4 times per day. Finally, the Warlock can also alter the area of effect of their spells as if under the effect of a Selective Spell metamagic feat 4 times a day.

[BananaPhone]

Edit: Reserved

[BananaPhone]

Edit: Reserved.

[BananaPhone]

Right, I think I'm in a position where it can start receiving feedback (for better or worse). I'm still yet to add the stats for the companion demons and the whole thing needs proof reading to remove the myriad of typos, but with 130+ views so far I hope at least someone has some thoughts they'd like to share!

[Composer99]

Sorcerer-equivalent 9th level casting plus rituals plus demonic minionmancy seems pretty hefty. Overall I would say the class needs to be toned down as a whole.


Anyway, on to one specific comment:

I find Life Tap troubling. Having the ability to spend hit points for metamagic seems ripe for abuse. Especially with d12 hit dice and an in-class ability to recover hit points.

At the very least, if you insist on retaining this ability, it needs to be made clear that you can't increase a spell's effective level past 9th. And rather than trying it to hit points, I might suggest a daily limit of effective spell level increase equal to Constitution score - or if you want to restrict it further (which would still be reasonable IMO) you could go with the 3 + ability mod (Con in this case) that PF often uses.

EXAMPLE: Infernia the warlock as a Constitution of 14. She could use Empower Spell on fireball either (A) 7 times per day [if going with Constitution score], or (B) twice per day (with 1 effective spell level left that she can use) [if going with 3 + Con mod], because the feat adds 2 effective spell levels.

The substitution of hit points for gold value of material components is IMO not good either: it doesn't help the warlock appreciably with very expensive spells, but it trivialises the costs of low-cost spells, when they're already pretty minimal due to WBL. Heck, with enough healing a mid- or high-level warlock can eat even 1,000 gp in material component costs in hit points.

[BananaPhone]

Hello .


Interesting mention on Life Tap. My idea behind making it cost hit points was to make it painful to simply spam metamagic. I didn't even think of the "max level spell can go is 9", so that's a definite. When thinking of the risk-and-reward behind Life Tap, I was of the mind that by spamming metamagic, you could do some nuke damage fast, but even with D12 hit die and some self-healing abilities, losing 50 or so hp a turn (eg. empowered lvl 6 spell), combined with potential enemy damage and it would add up quickly. That was my idea anyway. You do put forward a good idea for limiting it, however, so that things don't get really out of control. What about taking your idea and altering it to the ability to apply a metamagic feat a max number of times per day equal to the Warlocks Constitution modifier? So Infernia the Warlock could apply metamagic feats to her spells only 2wice a day, paying the hit point price via Life Tap?

Hmm, allowing Life Tap to help out with material costs does seem like gravy on top of a gravy pie, doesn't it? The class can probably do without it.

[BananaPhone]

So, an update:

- I cut the number of rituals the warlock gets over 20 levels in half. Hopefully this'll tune it down. The rituals are supposed to be flavorful ways to get some spells that aren't on the Warlocks spell list, so now only getting 3 minor rituals (out of possible 10), 3 rituals (out of possible 10), 3 greater rituals (out of possible 8) and only a single Prime Ritual (you want to be able to cast Wish, or Greater Teleport? Can't have both). So let's see how that goes.

- I nerfed Life Tap by setting a cap on the amount of metamagic modifications a warlock can make to their spells to a max of their constitution modifier per day. For most games this means a max of 2-3 modifications a day, and having to pay the HP for it. That should keep it in check. If the Warlock wants to focus on blasting, that's what the third option in the Macabre Thesis' are for.

- I added the summoned pets. I used the imp, succubus and bearded devil stats but reworked them, mostly to take out at will spells such as the greater teleports - or in the case of the bearded devil, removed all their spells. Each demon has its use, whether it's the Fel Imp to help boost dps or keep a watch out for invisible enemies/illusions and to act as a scout, the succubus for...well, where succubus' shine best, and the fel reaver to act as a meat shield to protect the warlock and act as a back up front-liner.


If any others are reading don't be afraid to say something. I don't have a interwebs disease, you won't die by saying something .

[Composer99]

You could probably move a few abilities around to reduce the "dead level" effect. For example, the warlock gets a couple of extra spells/day at 7th level, but gets a whole new spell level, plus a ritual, plus the succubus summon, at 8th level.

Regarding the summons, summon succubus at 8th level and fel reaver (based on barbed devil) are quite strong for the level at which they appear. (Incidentally the fel reaver entry needs some cleaning up for the name change. Also, did you mean felguard?)

Succubus
The succubus is a CR 7 creature, while most creatures one can summon with the 4th-level summon monster spells (which the warlock gets at the same level as of this writing) are CR3. The succubus can be summoned using summon monster VI (available at 11th level for most casters). So you could probably move this summon to level 12.

Fel Reaver
The fel reaver's template is a CR 11 creature, and is on the summon list for summon monster VIII (available at 15th level for most casters). So it could easily be a level 14-16 benefit, rather than level 12. Since you've removed its spell-like abilities, you could add some of the abilities the WoW felguard gets as compensation (and to make it resemble the WoW minion more, too).

Adding a New 8th-level Summon
If you make the moves as above, you're left with a summons gap around 8th level. You could use the hell hound as a template and replace its breath weapon, say, with one of the fel hunter's abilities.

[Gwynfrid]

Hi,

I saw your proposal to enter this class in a game over in the recruitment subforum, and I must say, I was relieved when the DM decided to nix it. Obviously, you're not going to feel the same way. So, I thought it would be fair of me to try and explain why I feel the class is seriously overpowered relative to Paizo standards.

Also, it looks like you had a hunch that this might be the case:

Though I seek to make a flavorful and strong class, knowing me it'll probably turn out to be stupidly OP and requiring reigning in.

... So I have reason to hope you aren't going to resent the somewhat opinionated remarks below, and you won't find them overly patronizing

1) General

First, the obvious: If this class exists, there is virtually no reason anyone would want to play a Sorcerer. If a Sorcerer is in any group with a Warlock, then the Sorcerer will be hopelessly outclassed. This is because the Warlock has as many spells as the Sorcerer, with a d12 hit die, better saves, more skills, more add-on powers coming with higher levels, and no discernible weakness. Life Tap is not a weakness, when you consider that it doesn't need to be used at all - then all those hits points are simply there for the keeping. In front of this, the Sorcerer can only boast of a few more known spells (bloodline spells) and a wider overall spell choice. Even the latter is questionable: The Warlock spell list is limited, but not small, and it includes virtually all the mainstays of the Wizard spell list.

Second, the non-spell power progression is very impressive, just for the sheer number of them: A little more than one per level, on average. No other full caster class gets anywhere close to that amount.

2) Low-level offensive powers

Looking at things like Corruption, Siphon Life and the various Curses, I notice a few very unusual things:
- There is no apparent limitation on use: Did you really intent to make these at-will abilities?
- No saving throw.
- For some of them, not even magic resistance.
- The new (as far as I know) damage type, Shadow: This implies Resist Energy doesn't protect from it. Presumably, the Warlock's enemies would have to develop entirely new spells to counter it.

And all those powers are accessible at really low levels, too.

3) Life Tap

Sure, this is costly metamagic. But it has the unique property of violating the regular limits on metamagic: Namely, the Warlock's maximum spell level isn't a limit. It's possible to cast a metamagic-enhanced spell that would increase the spell's effective level to beyond anything the Warlock can cast, as long as it doesn't go above level 9. For example, he could use Quicken Spell at level 1, for a cost of 6 HP. I don't know of any feature of any class that can break the max spell level limitation in that way.

The only limit to Life Tap is, of course, hit points. The Warlock has more of those than a fighter, but could use them fast. However, it would be possible to circumvent a lot of the limitation, through in-combat healing, or by having a good supply of temporary hit points. Conveniently, a number of Warlock powers provide exactly that.

4) Rituals

Basically these provide temporary (but long-lasting) magic items, at a cost of zero gp and a little bit of time. Attempts would fail, but since failure has no penalty other than wasting a couple of hours, retrying will usually be no problem.

5) Summons

Equivalent to familiars, but way stronger, and they can't die (well, not for more than 24 hours). The Fel Imp is arguably weaker than a regular Imp because it has less hit points. But on the other hand, it casts Scorching Ray at will, at its master's level. In the very worst case, it guarantees a couple of rounds of a lot of free extra damage before the enemy eliminates it.

Of course when we move to the Succubus, we aren't anywhere near familiar territory anymore. And those minions come at negligible initial cost, which the DM is encouraged to minimize. Also, they have zero recurring cost, which is very unusual, considering they're demons.

6) High-level offensive powers (Macabre Thesis)

To be frank, I think the above are enough to prove my point, so I'm not going to go trough those in detail. Basically, they have many of the same issues as the low level offensive powers: Usable at will (or 4 times per day, meaning they will not often run out), have no saving throw and/or ignore spell resistance and/or cause Shadow damage bypassing any standard protection.

7) Defensive powers

... That's where the class isn't the most impressive. Sure, all the important defensive spells of the Wizard are there (Mage Armor, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Dispel Magic, Fly, Dimension Door, etc ), but that's about it. So, like the Sorcerer, the Warlock may suffer from glass cannon syndrome... Except, in all likelihood, his enemies will have died or fled in terror before they can uncover his weaknesses.

Conclusion

I believe you have put together a nicely written, very flavorful class. But in my humble opinion, you need to tone it way down, before it can play alongside more standard characters.

[BananaPhone]

@Composer: I'll address those when I get home tonight.

@Gwinfrid:

Oh, as far as I interpreted his words of "Go with it, for now", he's allowing me to play test it. The very act of making a character from the class already highlighted some issues (which I brought up in character creation and that you've brought up in the mention of Life Tap) which I've made moves to fix. Play testing is the only way that it's going to become functional.


I can't address everything you've said yet because I'm soon driving back to my home city, but I will say 2 things. First is that the difference between a Sorcerer and this class is versatility and RP'ing. If you go a Warlock you'll be tougher and a better blaster, even if your full damage takes many rounds to take effect. However, even with rituals your spell selection is much more limited. With a sorcerer your damage isn't as far flung, but you can choose any wizard/sorcerer spell you want, warlocks can't do that. I've tried to leave out some of the "must have" wizard/sorc spell lines such as polymorph to both emphasise this and because they don't really fit the fluff, but more might be needed. Perhaps the invisibility line?

There is also the additional RP'ing reasons. I imagine members of this class, if as such is known, are going to be quite ostracized and looked upon with fear and suspicion by NPC's, particularly if they rock up to town with their summoned demon out or are spotted conducting their rituals that require them to spill blood and kill animals. This could even cause party friction, making a sorcerer a more versatile and safer option.

Like, take for example Curse of Agony. By its spell name the victim dies an agonising, painful death as their body is twisted and rended from within by this spell. Killing an orc with a sword is one thing, but watching your friend cast a spell on it that breaks its bones, twists its flesh and causes horrible pain that sends it to the grave is another. That's just an orc - imagine if you and your Warlock buddy were out hunting bandits, a bunch of young, misguided, angry men - is your character IC going to be totally cool with watching them die like that? It's an RP facet of this class that I don't want to have to enforce by rules, but that I'd like to bring players attention to for the RP value and flavor I'm hoping to give the class. (flavor that you think is currently there - thank you by the way )

The second is Shadow damage bypassing defenses, such as Resist Energy. This was not my intention, as by one of the Macabre Thesis' I imagined that Shadow would be, in whatever world this class would be used, an energy type that would be added to such spells - they just wouldn't often be used. The higher level macabre thesis (the one at 18, Soulburn), allows a warlock to penetrate through this and do their damage unhindered, because I was under the impression that around this level the health pools and defensive spells of the enemies would be so large as to warrant the piddly 4d6 damage at lvl 18 of corruption per turn as a wet noodle compared to the Damage Reductions, Protections from Energy/Resist Energy etc

I've read your points though and I've got a long drive ahead of me to think about them, so I'll get back to them later tonight when I get home .

[BananaPhone]

So, I'm home and I thought up a few changes in consideration of some of the things you guys suggested. The thing that is a major change is the addition of a Grimoire. I've listed the changes I'm suggesting here to see what ya'll think:



Life Tap:

Spoiler: Life Tap

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The Warlock sacrifices motes of their own life force to power their magic. Whenever a Warlock applies a Metamagic feat to their spells, instead of the spell taking up a higher level spell slot, the spell is cast as if it were its normal level. However, take the level that the spell should have been when increased by the metamagic feat and multiply that number by 5. That is the number of hit points that the Warlock must sacrifice in order to cast the metamagic-modified spell. The sacrifice of these hitpoints cannot be avoided or mitigated in any way, nor can any feats or abilities that would normally lower metamagic spell level adjustment be applied.

For example, a warlock applies the Empower Spell metamagic feat to Fireball. Normally this would require a level 5 spell slot. However, through Life Tap, the Warlock instead sacrifices 25 hit points to cast the modified spell.

Because of the sharp physical toll this takes upon the Warlocks body, a warlock may only apply metamagic to their spells a number of times per day equal to their Constitution modifier. Finally, even though the spell does not take up a higher slot, it cannot take up a slot of a level higher than the Warlock is capable of casting. For example, a 6 level Warlock could not apply a Empower Spell metamagic feat to fireball because this would usually take up a level 5 spell slot, when a level 6 Warlock only has level 4 slots available, whereas a level 18 warlock could not apply Extend metamagic feat to Gate because this would take up a level 10 spell slot.

Summons:
The demons conjured by the Warlocks summon class ability are no longer normal devils or demons. Instead their nature has been twisted and reworked by the vicissitudes of the Warlocks magic and have become slaves to their new masters will, ever loyal and ever obedient.

A material object that is partially responsible for this is a special trinket into which the remnants of the demons former essence has been stored. This could take the form of any bauble no bigger than a heart and worth no less than 5,000 gc. As long as the warlock retains this item, their summonable minions remain their loyal and devoted pets. Even if the warlock loses this trinket the demons remain theirs. However, should the item be destroyed, then the demons revert back to their normal nature - and the warlock does not automatically know this.

What the warlock does know, however, is that every time their summonable minion dies the hold their item has over the demons nature slips just a little bit more. As such, each summonable minion can "die" up to a maximum of 10 times. After the 10th time the demon is restored to their natural self in whatever material plane they were plucked from, with full memory of whatever deeds the warlock had them perform (however undignified).

Should such an event pass, then the Warlock is able to summon another minion by piecing together another bauble for 5,000 gc and conducting the summoning ritual once more. However, even a powerful warlock would be wise to remember the ire of their former servant whom now lingers in the very realms from which they eagerly draw recruits.



Rituals:
Rituals are spells as expressed in a less refined and expeditious form. They require meticulous planning, arrangement and spoken words in order to perform as desired. However, even a powerful Warlock can make mistakes, while new initiates are taking a great risk indeed by getting in over their heads.

When conducting any of the available to the Warlock through class levels, they make a Spellcraft skill check against the determined DC. If they succeed then the ritual functions as intended. However, if they fail then consult the chart below by how much they failed by.

• 0 - 5 - The ritual fizzles and nothing happens. All material components required for the rituals enactment are ruined and must be replaced.
  
  
• 6 - 10 - The ritual does not only fail, but through some error unwittingly conceived by the Warlock the runes of power, geometric patterns or some other arrangement explodes into a crackling display of hellish fire that burns those who bore witness to the Warlocks failure. All those within 10 feet of the failed Ritual must make a Reflex save against 10 + 1/2 the warlocks Caster level, or take 1d6 fire damage per the Warlocks caster level.
  
  
• 11 -20 - Not only does the ritual fail, but something has gone catastrophically wrong. From the infernal voids in which the warlock draws their power springs hellish beings who have taken opportunity at the temporary weakening of the veils between material planes. 1d10 devils of appropriate Challenge Rating spring forth within an area of 40 feet radius, centred upon the Warlock.

Shadow Damage:
Several Warlock class abilities result in the infliction of a damage type called Shadow. This damage type is an energy damage that can be resisted with such spells as Resist Energy, Protection from Energy and their Communal variants.




Grimoire:

Every Warlock possess a depository into which they pen their experiences, notes and discovered lore. This tome lacks the academic structure of a wizard's spell book, as the contents of each book and its organisation is unique to the Warlock that created it. Make no mistake however, for these items are not merely textual accounts, but invaluable sums of the Warlocks knowledge.

Beginning at level 1 the Warlock owns a Grimoire, which costs and weighs the same as a wizards spell book. This book is the cornerstone of three area's of the warlocks expertise: Rituals, his Macabre Thesis and summons.

Macabre Thesis: Over the course of the Warlocks career they will develop several Macabre Thesis. Each thesis represents several chapters of ruminations and discussions involving the Warlocks growing understanding and power. The acquirement of each Thesis at level 6, 12 and 18 represents the completion of one such thesis. As long as the Warlock retains ownership of their grimoire then they retain the powers as bestowed by Macabre Thesis. Should their grimoire be removed from their possession however, then the abilities granted by Macabre Thesis will rescind from the Warlocks power until they are unable to exploit it. This is represented by the Warlock losing access to their Macabre Thesis III 24 hours after no longer possessing their Thesis, losing access to their Macabre Thesis II 48 hours after no longer possessing their grimoire and no longer possessing their Macabre Thesis I 72 hours after no longer possessing their grimoire. Should the warlock re-acquire their grimoire intact then they regain the use of their Macabre Thesis in the opposite order, so restoration of Macabre Thesis I 24 hours after re-acquiring their grimoire, etc.

Rituals: The warlocks developing experience is what allows them to formulate and design their rituals that they then meticulously catalogue within their grimoire. To conduct a ritual, the warlock must possess their grimoire and it must be present during the ritual process on the Warlocks person. Should the Warlock ever lose their grimoire or have it stolen, they will no longer be able to conduct any of their minor rituals, rituals, greater rituals or prime rituals until their grimoire has been returned to their physical possession.

Summmons: Upon discovering the instructions for summoning each of their summonable minions, the Warlock transcribes a copy of this tuition into their grimoire in an exemplary display of exactitude. Once the warlock has summoned a minion for the first time, the elaborate instructions are no longer needed in their entirety. However, when the Warlock next summons the exact minion, they only need to speak several words, but these are words that link the power of the ceremony as described in their grimoire so the books presence is still a complete necessity. Should the Warlock ever lose their grimoire or have it stolen from them, they are no longer able to summon any of their summonable minions until the grimoire has been returned to their possession.


Should a Warlocks grimoire ever be destroyed, then a truly terrible calamity has befallen the warlock. In order to restore their trove of knowledge, the Warlock must spend time in meditation and reflection in order to reconstitute their grimoire. To reflect this, the Warlock must obtain a new grimoire at the same cost as a wizards spell book. They may then begin re-writing their grimoire at a rate of one class level per month and a cost of 2,000 gc per month. For example, a level 12 warlock would require 12 months to re-write their grimoire. After 6 months, the warlock would have re-written enough material to allow them to perform the three minor rituals that they knew and to resummon their fel imp, at the cost of 12,000 gc. Take note that the grimoire offers insight into the arcane, but it is not a magic item itself. Therefore if it is subjected to an antimagic field, Mage's Disjunction or other such magic nullifying process, the grimoire is unaffected.

Spoiler: quote

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You could probably move a few abilities around to reduce the "dead level" effect. For example, the warlock gets a couple of extra spells/day at 7th level, but gets a whole new spell level, plus a ritual, plus the succubus summon, at 8th level.

Regarding the summons, summon succubus at 8th level and fel reaver (based on barbed devil) are quite strong for the level at which they appear. (Incidentally the fel reaver entry needs some cleaning up for the name change. Also, did you mean felguard?)

Succubus
The succubus is a CR 7 creature, while most creatures one can summon with the 4th-level summon monster spells (which the warlock gets at the same level as of this writing) are CR3. The succubus can be summoned using summon monster VI (available at 11th level for most casters). So you could probably move this summon to level 12.

Fel Reaver
The fel reaver's template is a CR 11 creature, and is on the summon list for summon monster VIII (available at 15th level for most casters). So it could easily be a level 14-16 benefit, rather than level 12. Since you've removed its spell-like abilities, you could add some of the abilities the WoW felguard gets as compensation (and to make it resemble the WoW minion more, too).

Adding a New 8th-level Summon
If you make the moves as above, you're left with a summons gap around 8th level. You could use the hell hound as a template and replace its breath weapon, say, with one of the fel hunter's abilities.

Hmmm, what about bumping the Imp summon to level 8, the succubus to level 12 and the fel reaver to level 16? That way each minion is roughly as powerfully appropriate for their level.

I decided to drop the Fel hunter during a review, because by that point it seemed like the warlock could do too much. The Fel Imp is great for extra dps, scouting, Use Magic Device and a boost to party perception via its constant detect magic/see invisibility/true seeing - however its also supremely fragile. The Succubus is good for helping the party through social encounters, while the Fel Reaver is just a big slab of meat that stands between the warlock and hatchet wounds to the face - and can back up the front line fighter (who'll arguably be better because of their access to feats - I think it would be unfair if the warlocks melee minion was better than the parties fighter, though it would be funny, lol). However if we also added a Fel hunter with anti-magic user abilities then that might be too much.

What do you think of that reasoning?

[Gwynfrid]

Oh, as far as I interpreted his words of "Go with it, for now", he's allowing me to play test it. The very act of making a character from the class already highlighted some issues (which I brought up in character creation and that you've brought up in the mention of Life Tap) which I've made moves to fix. Play testing is the only way that it's going to become functional.

I thought that when he said "Base, Hybrid, and Core Classes, only, please?" that was excluding your proposal. My mistake.

First is that the difference between a Sorcerer and this class is versatility and RP'ing.

Yes, of course. But, you see, you can't balance mechanics for RP. It's like I told you, you can play the specific kind of role you want, but you'll take a one-level penalty relative to the rest of the PCs. That wouldnt work, obviously.

So any homebrewed class needs to be mechanically balanced with the existing ones, or the whole game suffers.

However, even with rituals your spell selection is much more limited. With a sorcerer your damage isn't as far flung, but you can choose any wizard/sorcerer spell you want, warlocks can't do that. I've tried to leave out some of the "must have" wizard/sorc spell lines such as polymorph to both emphasise this and because they don't really fit the fluff, but more might be needed. Perhaps the invisibility line?

As far as I can see, virtually all the must-have Wizard spells are there. Polymorph isn't one of them, it's just nice to have imho (it was must-have in 3E and 3.5E before the polymorph erratum was published, but is no longer so after that, or in PF). But every one of the key life-saving and utility spells is included, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Resist and Protection from Energy, Dispel Magic, Fly, Dimension Door; Teleport seems to be the one exception.

EDIT: Correction, I just saw that See Invisibility, Clairvoyance and True Seeing aren't listed. So, there are some weaknesses in the divination department, at least.

And of course, all of the best offensive spells are there. It's striking how the list doesn't specialize in any theme: It covers pretty much every base, so the limitation of versatility isn't nearly as impacting as you might think at first glance. I suspect that in practice, the vast majority of Sorcerers pick at least 90% of their spells from this list.

The second is Shadow damage bypassing defenses, such as Resist Energy. This was not my intention, as by one of the Macabre Thesis' I imagined that Shadow would be, in whatever world this class would be used, an energy type that would be added to such spells - they just wouldn't often be used.

I saw the clarification you provided. However, that still makes Shadow a much more powerful means of attack than any of the other energies, because it is so rare. So you can't expect frequently finding Rings of Shadow Resistance and the like; virtually no monster can be expected to have resistance to it; etc. It's like Sonic, except even better. This rarity is why spells that do Sonic damage are always somewhat less potent than Fireball and so forth. The reasoning applies to Shadow, only much more so.

The higher level macabre thesis (the one at 18, Soulburn), allows a warlock to penetrate through this and do their damage unhindered, because I was under the impression that around this level the health pools and defensive spells of the enemies would be so large as to warrant the piddly 4d6 damage at lvl 18 of corruption per turn as a wet noodle compared to the Damage Reductions, Protections from Energy/Resist Energy etc

I didn't examine it in detail as high as level 18. Balance at super-high levels isn't much of a concern, when everybody (among casters, at least) has huge powers at their disposal. But the problems with the Curses and Thesis kick in at very low levels already. Basically, even with your modifications, the Warlock outclasses any caster offensively - he's a bit ahead at level 1, and plays in an entirely higher league by level 6.

To align the class' power with existing classes, I would think much more radical changes would be required. To begin with, there shouldn't be any at-will, no save, no SR, ranged offensive powers until the very high levels, if at all. Then, the sheer number of options should be cut somewhat. Don't make the Warlock a full caster, maybe? As it stands, I think you have simply more powers than you can make use of in a realistic round of combat: There are so many choices, it will never be possible to bring every option to bear. It would be much more reasonable if there weren't a boatload of spells in addition to great necromantic-like powers.

Another suggestion would be to come back to a more standard hit die, d6 or d8, and reduce the cost of Life Tap. As it stands now, it's extremely powerful but only usable once or at most twice a day, because it costs so many hit points. I think you would do much better justice to the spirit of the original concept if it were less powerful, less costly, and used frequently. Just for the sake of brainstorming, how about this: For every spell cast, the Warlock sacrifices 1 hp per spell level. Simple, painful but bearable, scales slowly with level; and you can still alleviate it through judicious use of temporary hit points. By the way, I am surprised that you didn't add False Life to the 2nd level spell list; it would be a very logical choice.

[BananaPhone]

Ugh..

I had a massive post done and the house circuit breaker decided to go and die >_<.

/sigh, let's start from the beginning. I'm just going to cut down what I was saying.


The spell list should be the next area of revision. I don't want to hack and slash it out of a belief that the warlocks core abilities are "OP', because I'll soon demonstrate this is definitely not the case, and cutting away a heap of good spells and leaving the warlock hitting like a wet noodle is definitely not something I'm keen on doing. However spell pruning is necessary and should be the next area of review.

I disagree with your assessment that Shadow damage will be this overwhelmingly powerful source of strength. Are the core abilities good in the sense that the Warlock can just will them on an enemy? Yes. If those dots are left alone to do their damage, will the total be frighteningly large? Yes. But is the damage so low that any form of damage mitigation brought against it will cause the warlock to eat **** and become a poor mans sorcerer as they sacrifice huge chunks of HP to metamagic power their normal spells in order to be useful? Yes.

That damage mitigation is easy to acquire, as well. Resist Energy (Shadow) and Protection from energy (Shadow) will have warlocks tearing out their hair, as will any form of Damage Reduction that doesn't include "magic" on the other side of the /. Likewise, it takes multiple turns for the warlocks damage over time spells to come into their own - multiple turns which an enemy team can easily use Dispel, Restoration, globe of invulnerability or any spell absorption abilities etc to negate the warlocks effect, forcing the lock to spend more of their turns casting their dots again instead of backing up their small amount of damage each turn with their own normal spells.

Allow me to demonstrate with averages. This is a scenario in which a level 10 warlock and sorcerer only have access to Empower spell metamagic, and is completely off the top of my head. It completely ignores the Sorcerers bloodline powers as well as ignoring the warlocks macabre thesis, which puts the sorcerer at a disadvantage as a lot of their bloodline powers add damage to their spells, while only 1 of the macabre thesis' by this level does this for the warlock. Also any other tricky tricks that sorc players have learned to pull in order to do stupidly huge amounts of damage in a single turn via metamagic + bloodline power juggling aren't included here.

They come across a Big Scary Mob.


Warlock Turn 1:
Move action: Corruption - 3d6 - 9 damage total
Standard Action: Curse of Agony - 4d6 - 12 damage total
Imp action: Scorching Ray - 4d6 - 12 damage total

Total damage: 33 damage

Sorcerer turn 1:
Empowered Fireball - 10d6+15 - 45 damage

Total Damage = 45 damage

warlock turn 2:
Move action: Siphon Life - 3d6 - 9 damage total
Corruption - 9 damage total
Imp action - scorching ray - 12 damage total
standard action: Fireball 10d6 - 30 damage

Total damage: 60 damage

Sorcerer Turn 2:
Empowered fireball - 45 damage

total damage - 45 damage

warlock turn 3:
full action: empowered fireball - 45 damage
corruption - 9 damage
siphon life - 9 damage
curse of agony - 12 damage
imp action - 12 damage

Total damage = 87 damage

Sorcerer turn :
empowered fireball - 45 damage

total damage = 45 damage


So after three rounds:
warlock total damage: 180 damage, and lost 7 hit points (25 life tap - 18 from 2 rounds of siphon life = 7 hp).
Sorcerer: 135 damage


Well, the Warlock certainly seems ahead there. However, remember that 20% of that damage came from the Imp - a summonable minion that the warlock had to go on a quest to get and had to spend 5,000gc to get and that has supremely low HP and is liable to die pretty easily, and if it does so enough times the warlock is out of pocket another 5 grand. That's money and time and effort that the sorcerer can spend on stuff to boost themselves pretty easily. If the Imps damage isn't factored in, the warlock only does 144 damage compared with 135, a negligible amount.


But, along comes the players worst and best friend - Damage Reduction. So that the DR hits both characters let's say it's DR 10/slashing, something that's not that uncommon at level 10.


Warlock Turn 1:
Move action: Corruption - 3d6 - 9 damage total - completely negated
Standard Action: Curse of Agony - 4d6 - 12 damage total - 2 damage total
Imp action: Scorching Ray - 4d6 - 12 damage total - 2 damage total

Total damage = 4 damage

Sorcerer turn 1:
Empowered Fireball - 10d6+15 - 45 damage - 35 damage total

Total Damage = 35 damage

warlock turn 2:
Move action: Siphon Life - 3d6 - 9 damage total - completely negated
Corruption - 9 damage total - completely negated
Imp action - scorching ray - 12 damage total - 2 damage
standard action: Fireball 10d6 - 30 damage - 20 damage

Total damage: 22 damage

Sorcerer Turn 2:
Empowered fireball - 45 damage - 35 damage

total damage = 35 damage

warlock turn 3:
full action: empowered fireball - 45 damage - 35 damage
corruption - 9 damage - completely negated
siphon life - 9 damage - completely negated
curse of agony - 12 damage - 2 damage
imp action - 12 damage- 2 damage

Total damage = 39 damage

Sorcerer turn :
empowered fireball - 45 damage - 35 damage total

total damage = 35 damage


After three rounds:
warlock total damage: 65 damage, and took 25 hit point damage because of the empowered fireball.
Sorcerer: 105 damage


Well, the Warlock ended up with the **** end of the stick there. Let's say that Big Scary Mob just happened to have a Resist Energy (Fire) laying about as a 10th level caster. Now the Warlock does 19 damage over 3 rounds, while the sorcerer still puts out 45.

But, you say, that's not entirely fair as the Sorcerers spells can get Saved against, while the warlocks main abilities can't be. Yeah, that's true, but as we can see the warlocks fireball and their imps scorching ray factored as large amounts of their dps - and those can miss/get saved against, leaving the warlock with a damage output of 30 damage a round from Corruption, Siphon Life and Curse of Agony. And if you're a level 10 sorcerer whose main abilities are putting out 30 damage, on average, each round without encountering any type of damage reduction or saves, then it's time to retire because you suck.

But, you say, the Sorcerer in this example has a higher chance of coming across Resist (fire) than the warlock does. Well, yes. But, a) as most of the warlocks blasty spells are fire-based, we've seen that the warlock needs to combine both their core abilities and their blasty spells per round to be effective so that kind of common resist hurts warlocks as well, and c) Any sorcerer worth their salt has other energy types available that'll bypass it, the warlock, by my intention and hopefully final design, has mostly only shadow and fire damage spells (unless they're level 18), so they're hit a lot harder by Resist (fire) than a sorcerer is (unless the sorcerer is super specialised, like a cross-blooded Orc/Draconic fire sorcerer). Speaking of which, recall that the above doesn't even bring into bare the Sorcerers bloodline powers that boost their upfront damage, while the level 6 warlock macabre thesis for blasters (lingering torment) would only add 5d6 damage the following 1 round, which would result in an average of 5 damage after damage reduction.


So, to iterate, I don't share your opinion that Shadow damage combined with the ease of which the warlock can apply their damage of time spells, will make them this overwhelming force on the battlefield. If the Warlock is left alone to DoT everyone up and no enemy has any form of damage reduction against their spells (something that's less likely the more levels are gained), then yes, the Warlock can dish out a lot of damage, but Sorcerers have their own tricks that allow them to pump out large amounts of DPS per turn that'll rival it - and have greater spell selection variety while they're at it. Where the warlock triumphs is their larger hit die (but which they need for metamagic empowerment), and better skills and more skill points and a single better save.

So ultimately that's what it comes down to with this class. Do you want to do stupidly huge amounts of damage up front and in a short amount of time? If so, roll a sorcerer. Do you want to do huge amounts of damage over many rounds, but have the resilience to be around to see that damage come to fruition? If so, roll a warlock.

[Gwynfrid]

All right, first, a couple of points about damage calculation:
- A minor one: At CL 10, the Scorching Ray damage is 8d6, no save. Maybe both rays don't hit. Still, many opponents will have a poor touch AC, so you can count on at least a 50% chance of hitting in a majority of situations.
- Another minor thing: In round 2, you forgot to add 4d6 for curse of agony.
- By the way, the average for 4d6 is 14, not 12 (3.5 per die, so 35 for 10d6, and so forth).
- A much bigger deal is your understanding of Damage Reduction. It only applies to weapons. A monster with DR/slashing will take just as much fire or shadow damage as the next guy. So, DR is irrelevant in a discussion of Shadow, which you defined as a unique type of energy. That means the number of monsters in the book with built-in protection against Corruption and Curses is exactly zero. That fact, alone, makes it severely overpowered and will force the DM to tweak encounters to adjust. This is why, in my opinion, one shouldn't ever create a new energy type: It alters the whole system's balance, not just that of the class you're creating.

Another big thing is, well, I had read your text too fast and... failed to notice that Corruption and Siphon Life require just a move action to cast! And my reaction upon realizing this is, well... Wow. To put it simply, I can't think of any offensive ability for any class or even any monster that functions as a move action. That means you can add this attack to anything you do, unless it is a full-round action or unless you must also move. In the case of the Warlock, it basically means anything except metamagic-modified spells; it is unclear whether Life Tap bypasses the increase in casting time. Whether or not it does, your example makes it clear how excessive this feature is: You're creating an addition to regular spellcasting power that basically lets you attack with magic twice per round, at no cost (and with no limits on daily use, too).

So, your example fight with the Sorcerer really works like this:

Round 1
Sorcerer: Fireball; let's assume he doesn't use metamagic this round.
Warlock: Fireball + Corruption + Scorching Ray

Round 2:
Sorcerer: Empowered Fireball
Warlock: Choice of Empowered Fireball + Scorching Ray; or regular Fireball + Siphon Life + effect of Corruption from last round + Scorching Ray. By the way, the warlock doesn't need to use Life Tap to do metamagics, since he has exactly the same spell slots as the sorcerer. But in any case, the Siphon Life and Corruption effects combine to 6d6, which is more than the additional damage from Empowering a 10d6 Fireball (ie 5d6), even if you assume a failed save for the latter. So, I think in a pure blasting fight, the warlock will just forgo metamagic, and will automatically do more damage than the sorcerer at every turn, even if the imp isn't in play.

Round 3:
Sorcerer: Hey, blasting is often not the most efficient way to win. Let's go for something else, like Black Tentacles, or Cloudkill, or Resilient Sphere, or Feeblemind, or Phantasmal Killer. Or maybe cast Haste to help my teammates.
Warlock: Whatever the sorcerer did + Siphon Life + Corruption + Scorching Ray.

Round 4:
Sorcerer: Ouch! I've got to get rid of this ongoing damage: Dispel Magic. Oh, and I had forgotten a detail here... I just took 6d6 (average 21) ongoing damage. So, I need to make a concentration check DC10+1/2damage taken+spell level in order to cast any spell.
Warlock: Siphon Life + Corruption + Scorching Ray. This resets all conditions back to where they were at the beginning of the round, thereby nullifying the Dispel, even if it was successful.

I think it is pretty obvious that the sorcerer doesn't stand a chance in this fight, unless he's got established protections against Shadow before the combat starts. This applies even if the imp isn't present; Scorching Ray every round is just gravy!

[BananaPhone]

All right, first, a couple of points about damage calculation:
- A minor one: At CL 10, the Scorching Ray damage is 8d6, no save. Maybe both rays don't hit. Still, many opponents will have a poor touch AC, so you can count on at least a 50% chance of hitting in a majority of situations.

I know it does, but I'm going to be changing the Imps scorch to 4d6 cap. I should have said that, my bad.

- Another minor thing: In round 2, you forgot to add 4d6 for curse of agony.

Curse of agony lasts 1 round per 2 caster levels. It's also supposed to only damage an opponent once every 2 turns, so that's on me for missing that.

- By the way, the average for 4d6 is 14, not 12 (3.5 per die, so 35 for 10d6, and so forth).

Which changes almost nothing from the examples I gave .

- A much bigger deal is your understanding of Damage Reduction. It only applies to weapons. A monster with DR/slashing will take just as much fire or shadow damage as the next guy. So, DR is irrelevant in a discussion of Shadow, which you defined as a unique type of energy. That means the number of monsters in the book with built-in protection against Corruption and Curses is exactly zero. That fact, alone, makes it severely overpowered and will force the DM to tweak encounters to adjust. This is why, in my opinion, one shouldn't ever create a new energy type: It alters the whole system's balance, not just that of the class you're creating.

In every game I've been in DR has also applied to spells, unless it has 'magic' or +1 etc as something that cancels it out. Perhaps every game I've ever been in has been doing it wrong, but that's the background I have. Likewise, in my first example I highlight when the pitiful amount of damage from each one of the core skills isn't so scary, even without DR, and it's only when they're felt together over multiple rounds do they matter. Furthermore, as I've already stated in the rules that Shadow is included in spells like Resist Energy and Protection from Energy, any GM in which this class is involved with will use them, making my point about the lower damage entirely valid, as even at caster level 7 of Resist Energy (DR 20), Corruption and Siphon Life will do nothing while Curse of Agony would do 4 damage at most. Considering that the combined damage of these abilities is supposed to sit in for the Warlocks lowered amount of metamagic damage boosting, that's a hefty hit.

I really lost as to the fixation on this "shadow" damage business. It's not there as my attempt to slip some unseen, super powerful force into the game. It's there because no other official energy type suits the spells that it is attached too, and with my statement that it's included in common spells like Resist and Prot fro En, and GM with half a brain will have such protections floating around their mobs. This is especially so with the very low damage that each core ability does.

The closest energy type that would even come close is Acid.

Another big thing is, well, I had read your text too fast and... failed to notice that Corruption and Siphon Life require just a move action to cast! And my reaction upon realizing this is, well... Wow. To put it simply, I can't think of any offensive ability for any class or even any monster that functions as a move action. That means you can add this attack to anything you do, unless it is a full-round action or unless you must also move. In the case of the Warlock, it basically means anything except metamagic-modified spells; it is unclear whether Life Tap bypasses the increase in casting time. Whether or not it does, your example makes it clear how excessive this feature is: You're creating an addition to regular spellcasting power that basically lets you attack with magic twice per round, at no cost (and with no limits on daily use, too).

The cost is low damage. At level 10 you're throwing out 3d6 damage. Any form of damage mitigation is going to laugh at that. And outside of 1 spell that is obtained at level 12, all the warlocks self healing relies on doing damage with those core abilities - core abilities that can be negated so laughably easily.

Their damage is pitifully low, but all three taken together do damage that brings the warlocks non-metamagiced spells up to respectable levels. Making the lock roll to hit, or that collection of spells getting saved against breaks the lock. They're now spending whole standard actions to put up spells which do 3d6 (at lvl 10) damage per round which can get saved against..so the lock has to spend at least 3 full turns just to get their core, low damage DoT's up on a single target. That's 3 ticks of coruption, 1 of siphon life and 1 of curse of agony, for 16d6 damage (56, taking the average). If the Imp has hit with all 3 scorches (and assuming it hasn't died, and it even hits) that's another 41 damage on average, bringing the total up to 97.

So in three turns the warlock may have been out-dps'ed by their own pet, and have only now just gotten themselves into a position to start flinging around their normal spells. That's assuming the enemy didn't Save against any of their core DoT's, because they'll have to spend at least another standard action putting those on. By this time the rest of the party is thinking "Why the hell did we bring this loser along with us again? Because the sorcerer one partyover dished out 120+ damage in this time with a few emp scorching rays and an easy +1 caster level boost."

This is only compounded when the GM turns around and says "Oh, by the way, those mobs had cast a level 2 spell Resist Energy (Shadow) for DR 10 against it. You effectively spent 3 full turns doing nothing, and you're the 'main party blaster', lolsuckstobeyou".

Round 1
Sorcerer: Fireball; let's assume he doesn't use metamagic this round.
Warlock: Fireball + Corruption + Scorching Ray

Why assume that?

Round 2:
Sorcerer: Empowered Fireball
Warlock: Choice of Empowered Fireball + Scorching Ray; or regular Fireball + Siphon Life + effect of Corruption from last round + Scorching Ray. By the way, the warlock doesn't need to use Life Tap to do metamagics, since he has exactly the same spell slots as the sorcerer. But in any case, the Siphon Life and Corruption effects combine to 6d6, which is more than the additional damage from Empowering a 10d6 Fireball (ie 5d6), even if you assume a failed save for the latter. So, I think in a pure blasting fight, the warlock will just forgo metamagic, and will automatically do more damage than the sorcerer at every turn, even if the imp isn't in play.

The warlock can't do an empowered fireball + the other stuff because doing adding metamagic to its spells takes a full round action. And yes, as I'm trying to infer the warlock must sacrifice hit points via life tap to cast metamagic.

So Round 2 goes exactly how I highlighted it goes.

Round 3:
Sorcerer: Hey, blasting is often not the most efficient way to win. Let's go for something else, like Black Tentacles, or Cloudkill, or Resilient Sphere, or Feeblemind, or Phantasmal Killer. Or maybe cast Haste to help my teammates.
Warlock: Whatever the sorcerer did + Siphon Life + Corruption + Scorching Ray.

Yes, the DoTs tick away each round instead of huge up front damage, allowing actions to be taken to bring the damage up to something comparable of their level, that's the nature of the beast.

Round 4:
Sorcerer: Ouch! I've got to get rid of this ongoing damage: Dispel Magic. Oh, and I had forgotten a detail here... I just took 6d6 (average 21) ongoing damage. So, I need to make a concentration check DC10+1/2damage taken+spell level in order to cast any spell.
Warlock: Siphon Life + Corruption + Scorching Ray. This resets all conditions back to where they were at the beginning of the round, thereby nullifying the Dispel, even if it was successful.

Wait, are you playing it out as if they're fighting each other? Because this isn't a pvp game where the Sorc could've just feebleminded the Lock in the first round then lolblasted his imp back to hell. This is about their performance in a party in relation to each other, which I've already demonstrated varies based upon important factors, such as the defensive abilities of the one they're fighting.

I think it is pretty obvious that the sorcerer doesn't stand a chance in this fight, unless he's got established protections against Shadow before the combat starts. This applies even if the imp isn't present; Scorching Ray every round is just gravy!

Well, seems as this isn't a pvp game the Warlock could 1 shot the sorc and it wouldn't matter as long as they're on a roughly similar tier in terms of performance in a group, which they are for reasons I've mentioned - Sorc does much more up front straight damage a lot quickier, while the lock does just as much damage but spread out over a lot more turns.

[nobodez]

First off, I think you've done a lot of good work so far, but, you've got a few problems.

As others have said, you've got a massive hit die and full spellcasting. Plus, your companion creatures follow neither of the core rules for companion creatures (which all other classes fro Paizo have used, mostly the Animal Companion/Eidolon chart for combat companions and the familiar chart for minor non-combat companions). I think the Warlock would work better if instead of being based on the Sorcerer/Wizard framework, you instead based it on the Summoner/Bard framework. With 2/3 casting it's much easier to allow more powerful abilities.

Also, for the companion, I'd base it instead on the Animal Companion or Eidolon.

Honestly, I could almost see the Warlock work easiest as an Archetype of the Summoner.

[BananaPhone]

Thank you for the compliment .



Hmmm, what about actually taking away the demonic pets all together?


It robs the class of some of its flavor, yes, but I'd prefer to keep sorc casting as I feel a greater arcane mastery is more in line with the class than having a demonic pet - especially when they can already get a temporary one via planar binding or something. Instead of summons as perma-pets, there could be rules that allow warlocks to use planar binding and summon monster in conjunction with devils/demons, but enhance their ability to do so.

[Gwynfrid]

Curse of agony lasts 1 round per 2 caster levels. It's also supposed to only damage an opponent once every 2 turns, so that's on me for missing that.

So it's a 2d6 damage base, every 2 rounds. While Corruption is 1d6 base, every round. This distinction feels complicated to me. What's the idea behind it?

In every game I've been in DR has also applied to spells, unless it has 'magic' or +1 etc as something that cancels it out. Perhaps every game I've ever been in has been doing it wrong, but that's the background I have.

Well, I'm going by RAW here. I have never met a GM who read it differently, fwiw.

I really lost as to the fixation on this "shadow" damage business. It's not there as my attempt to slip some unseen, super powerful force into the game. It's there because no other official energy type suits the spells that it is attached too, and with my statement that it's included in common spells like Resist and Prot fro En, and GM with half a brain will have such protections floating around their mobs. This is especially so with the very low damage that each core ability does.

That's what I said - you're forcing the GM to adjust the opposition to your special case. Now, some GMs might be happy to do so. But it strikes me as a surefire sign of an unbalanced solution.

I'm curious to know why you didn't consider the negative energy alternative. From a flavor perspective, it's pretty much the same thing. Mechanically, it would be much easier to integrate.

The closest energy type that would even come close is Acid.

Actually, that's not too far off. Corruption is more or less equivalent to Acid Arrow, with the following differences: Damage is a little less until level 6, and higher beyond that; range is short (still long enough for most fights); it lasts 3x longer; it can't miss; it's available at will; and it comes as an addition to the regular spell that a full caster can be expected to cast every round. Oh, and it's available from level 1, not level 3.

The cost is low damage. At level 10 you're throwing out 3d6 damage. Any form of damage mitigation is going to laugh at that.

I'd be curious to know what mitigation measure you would suggest, other than Resist/Protection from Energy/Globe of Invulnerability/Dispel, since those aren't available to the majority of monsters.

Their damage is pitifully low, but all three taken together do damage that brings the warlocks non-metamagiced spells up to respectable levels. Making the lock roll to hit, or that collection of spells getting saved against breaks the lock. They're now spending whole standard actions to put up spells which do 3d6 (at lvl 10) damage per round which can get saved against..so the lock has to spend at least 3 full turns just to get their core, low damage DoT's up on a single target. That's 3 ticks of coruption, 1 of siphon life and 1 of curse of agony, for 16d6 damage (56, taking the average). If the Imp has hit with all 3 scorches (and assuming it hasn't died, and it even hits) that's another 41 damage on average, bringing the total up to 97.

I'm under the impression you put a great premium, probably too great, on metamagics and blast spells that do a great amount of damage in one go. Like I said, those aren't usually the most powerful offensive weapons in an arcane caster's hand. In frequent circumstances, like monsters with SR, or enemies that are prepared with protection against his preferred type of energy, the sorcerer will have to resort to other steps. Absent those conditions, the better thing to do, before blasting, will often be to go for incapacitating or field controlling spells anyway, such as Glitterdust, Slow, Black Tentacles, Feeblemind, Solid Fog, etc. Also, there are situations when you want to cast a defensive spell in the first round. In all such cases, the warlock will simply do the same thing as the sorcerer + his free curses on top of that, and come out ahead every time.

Why assume that?

I just wanted to give an example of non-metamagic'd play. But if you put an empowered fireball instead, the result isn't that much better for the sorcerer: 15d6 compared to 10d6+3d6+4d6. Even if you take the imp out of the equation, the 5d6 extra fire damage, which can be halved by a save of nullified by SR, are in practice nearly always inferior to the 3d6 that aren't subject to save or SR and will continue in the next round.

The warlock can't do an empowered fireball + the other stuff because doing adding metamagic to its spells takes a full round action. And yes, as I'm trying to infer the warlock must sacrifice hit points via life tap to cast metamagic.

That's why my example was: empowered fireball + imp, OR regular fireball + curses + imp. And it showed that the latter is the better option. In other words: The sorcerer gets an advantage from metamagics, but the warlock can overcome it without trying to emulate it. Now that you've made the Life Tap cost mandatory to use it, metamagics will be all the more rarely in play (especially since you also added a limit to uses per day, so even a huge source of temp hp isn't going to let you do more metamagics). I suspect the better long-term solution for the warlock is to never take a metamagic feat in the first place.

Wait, are you playing it out as if they're fighting each other?

Yes, but it doesn't matter. The reasoning equally works when they're compared while fighting a generic opponent. I used the opposition only to illustrate what happens when the opponent is a caster and tries to use Dispel, the default solution, to get rid of the corruption/curses (Remove Curse would be treated the same way): The caster must roll for concentration, and the round spent doing that is just the right amount of time the warlock needs to reactivate the corruption/curses.

[BananaPhone]

So it's a 2d6 damage base, every 2 rounds. While Corruption is 1d6 base, every round. This distinction feels complicated to me. What's the idea behind it?

I don't see it as that complicated. Curse of Agony is a curse, it does more damage when it hits but it's slower to hit, while Corruption hits more often but with lower dice each time. There's no special reasoning behind it other than that's the way I wanted it to roll. Curse of Agony also takes a standard action to cast but does more damage with each individual hit, while Corruption takes a move action but does lower damage with each individual hitt. Curse of Agony also competes with Curse of Tongues for a spot, particularly if fighting a caster, and it can be decursed, while corruption cannot.

That's what I said - you're forcing the GM to adjust the opposition to your special case. Now, some GMs might be happy to do so. But it strikes me as a surefire sign of an unbalanced solution.

I'm curious to know why you didn't consider the negative energy alternative. From a flavor perspective, it's pretty much the same thing. Mechanically, it would be much easier to integrate.

I'm not forcing the GM to do anything. By virtue of them accepting the homebrew class and reading it they can see that Shadow damage will be a thing and they've been told it's a part of the Resist/Protection line. If I was the GM I might give something like Shades an inherent Shadow resist, but I'm not going to see it as a problem because the damage is so low and it takes multiple rounds to have a real effect.

Negative energy crossed my mind, and it's still viable. I did not include it originally because I didn't want it healing undead. However a tooltip that the Cor, Siphon and Curse of Agony do their damage as normal against undead could alleviate that.

Actually, that's not too far off. Corruption is more or less equivalent to Acid Arrow, with the following differences: Damage is a little less until level 6, and higher beyond that; range is short (still long enough for most fights); it lasts 3x longer; it can't miss; it's available at will; and it comes as an addition to the regular spell that a full caster can be expected to cast every round. Oh, and it's available from level 1, not level 3.

Perhaps. But say that it was swapped to acid. Want to know who the warlock is gimped fighting? Why, Devils and Demons with their blanket Acid Resist 10 . Better off going for Negative damage with the tooltip that these spells hurt undead instead of heal them.

I'd be curious to know what mitigation measure you would suggest, other than Resist/Protection from Energy/Globe of Invulnerability/Dispel, since those aren't available to the majority of monsters.

What, completely nullifying 1 of the 2 schools of magic you rely upon to do damage isn't enough? The other school of magic being the most common type to encounter Resistance? Resist Energy isn't rare. Any level 3 wizard can cast it and survive a few rounds receiving the core damage spells of a level 14 warlock. In fact, a level 3 wizard could cast on themselves Resist (Shadow), gain DR 10 against it, and then sit there and laugh at a level 14 warlock for roughly 4 rounds before dying. Taking it one step further, a lvl 5 wizard could cast Resist (Shadow) and Protection from Energy (Shadow), and sit there and laugh for 14-15 rounds before dying.

I'd venture to say that the majority of monsters don't have such protections against Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity and Sonic damage either. Some of them do, in which case it's a bad day to be someone relying on them for damage - that is, if they can't just cast a different spell that deals damage. When a warlock meets someone that uses any of the above mitigation against Shadow and/or fire, then they're really up ****-creek as they can't do jack except put out debuffs.

I'm under the impression you put a great premium, probably too great, on metamagics and blast spells that do a great amount of damage in one go. Like I said, those aren't usually the most powerful offensive weapons in an arcane caster's hand. In frequent circumstances, like monsters with SR, or enemies that are prepared with protection against his preferred type of energy, the sorcerer will have to resort to other steps. Absent those conditions, the better thing to do, before blasting, will often be to go for incapacitating or field controlling spells anyway, such as Glitterdust, Slow, Black Tentacles, Feeblemind, Solid Fog, etc. Also, there are situations when you want to cast a defensive spell in the first round. In all such cases, the warlock will simply do the same thing as the sorcerer + his free curses on top of that, and come out ahead every time.

I usually play wizards so I'm aware of the arcane classes capabilities. Wizards, if they're smart, usually invest in battlefield control/buff/debuff and utility, and leave blasting to the Sorcerers. Sorcerers, if they're the main caster, should carry around other options, but are in their prime when acting as the artillery, with all their bloodline powers and easier-time of metamagic enhancement leading them in such a direction.

I just wanted to give an example of non-metamagic'd play. But if you put an empowered fireball instead, the result isn't that much better for the sorcerer: 15d6 compared to 10d6+3d6+4d6. Even if you take the imp out of the equation, the 5d6 extra fire damage, which can be halved by a save of nullified by SR, are in practice nearly always inferior to the 3d6 that aren't subject to save or SR and will continue in the next round.

It'll be 10d6+15 damage compared to 10d6+3d6+4d6. If the mob has no form of damage mitigation on it (which, if it's an important fight at level 10, it will), then the odds favor the warlock of coming out ahead in damage. If there is mitigation on there, however, then the warlocks damage gets hit heavily, and seems as they're not receiving their proper self-healing the option of buffing their damage via metamagic is a risky one. Thus against naked mobs the warlock has the edge in damage, while against mobs with defenses the sorcerer will come out ahead. I see no problem with this.

That's why my example was: empowered fireball + imp, OR regular fireball + curses + imp. And it showed that the latter is the better option. In other words: The sorcerer gets an advantage from metamagics, but the warlock can overcome it without trying to emulate it. Now that you've made the Life Tap cost mandatory to use it, metamagics will be all the more rarely in play (especially since you also added a limit to uses per day, so even a huge source of temp hp isn't going to let you do more metamagics). I suspect the better long-term solution for the warlock is to never take a metamagic feat in the first place.

But again, any form of mitigation is going to **** the warlock hard because they rely on lots of little packets of damage to add up to something large, while the sorcerer goes Boom in one big hit. And, if Mad Hatter accepts me, I'm still going to play-test the warlock with metamagic, because there might be a time when a dazing Fireball, or an empowered Enervate or something will come in handy and paying the extra HP to use it will be necessary. The warlock faces the real danger of damage mitigation heavily hurting their damage output, and so will rely on damage-boosting metamagic to compensate - but they'll need to be careful about when and where they apply it because, unlike the sorcerer, doing so hits them with lots of HP (that they're not getting back if their dots aren't doing damage) and has a daily limit.

This is an alternative style of damage delivery that has its pro's and con's just the way dealing huge damage right up front does, and the only way to see how it stacks up is to play-test it, which I'm hopefully going to get the chance to do if Hatter has me along.

Yes, but it doesn't matter. The reasoning equally works when they're compared while fighting a generic opponent. I used the opposition only to illustrate what happens when the opponent is a caster and tries to use Dispel, the default solution, to get rid of the corruption/curses (Remove Curse would be treated the same way): The caster must roll for concentration, and the round spent doing that is just the right mount of time the warlock needs to reactivate the corruption/curses.

I don't see the problem here. The warlock is focusing on attacking the enemy caster and shutting them down...they're succeeding at their job. While they're focusing on that task their DoT's or spells aren't affecting any of the minions the enemy caster no doubt has surrounding them. If the party sorcerer were to do the same thing then they'd use different tools to do it, like a metamagiced Save or Suck targeted to Reflex or Fortitude, or Feeblemind, or something else that'd be equally as effective. One method will take the enemy caster out quickly, the other will take them out slowly and make their attempts to cast spells a pain in the ass. They're both doing the same job but they're using different tools to do it.

[BananaPhone]

As a log for a change, I decided to drop the Hit Die to D10's, and see how that goes. I also changed the Life Tap entry to say that feats/abilities that lower metamagic level adjustments can be applied but the minimum number of hit points a metamagic-altered spell will cost is 10.

[Gwynfrid]

Negative energy crossed my mind, and it's still viable. I did not include it originally because I didn't want it healing undead. However a tooltip that the Cor, Siphon and Curse of Agony do their damage as normal against undead could alleviate that.

So you really want nobody to be immune to it, then

I do see the potential problem with it healing undead, but since you don't have undead creation or control spells in your list, it's probably not a huge deal.

Perhaps. But say that it was swapped to acid. Want to know who the warlock is gimped fighting? Why, Devils and Demons with their blanket Acid Resist 10 .

Exactly my point: He'd be no more and no less gimped than the sorcerer with the elemental earth bloodline. That's the very definition of game balance

What, completely nullifying 1 of the 2 schools of magic you rely upon to do damage isn't enough? The other school of magic being the most common type to encounter Resistance? Resist Energy isn't rare. Any level 3 wizard can cast it and survive a few rounds receiving the core damage spells of a level 14 warlock. In fact, a level 3 wizard could cast on themselves Resist (Shadow), gain DR 10 against it, and then sit there and laugh at a level 14 warlock for roughly 4 rounds before dying. Taking it one step further, a lvl 5 wizard could cast Resist (Shadow) and Protection from Energy (Shadow), and sit there and laugh for 14-15 rounds before dying.

... So, wizards can resist it. So can most casters. That's still a small minority of the opposition the warlock will meet over his career. You said "any form of damage mitigation is going to laugh at that". The reality is much more narrow in scope: Casters will laugh at that, provided they cast their protection against shadow. And even then... when they do, they haven't cast their protection from fire yet; so, you can roast them at will. You enjoy a major advantage, as a pure blaster, that you're able to use 2 different energy types at the same time, while everybody else uses only one. This gives you an edge over casters; and anybody who's not a caster is doesn't get any chance to defend against it.

I'd venture to say that the majority of monsters don't have such protections against Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity and Sonic damage either.

Entire monster types and subtypes. You just named two yourself.

It'll be 10d6+15 damage compared to 10d6+3d6+4d6. If the mob has no form of damage mitigation on it (which, if it's an important fight at level 10, it will), then the odds favor the warlock of coming out ahead in damage. If there is mitigation on there, however, then the warlocks damage gets hit heavily, and seems as they're not receiving their proper self-healing the option of buffing their damage via metamagic is a risky one. Thus against naked mobs the warlock has the edge in damage, while against mobs with defenses the sorcerer will come out ahead. I see no problem with this.

The likelihood of mitigation (or complete immunity) against fire is much higher than the likelihood of mitigation against shadow. Also, SR is not uncommon, starting at medium high levels. So, you have it upside down here: The sorcerer is even worse off against protected opponents.

I don't see the problem here. The warlock is focusing on attacking the enemy caster and shutting them down...they're succeeding at their job. While they're focusing on that task their DoT's or spells aren't affecting any of the minions the enemy caster no doubt has surrounding them.

They are totally affecting the minions at the same time, because they can both cast their highest level blast spell and corrupt/curse the caster in the same round. Heck, if the minions are surrounding the caster, then the caster gets to eat both the blast spell and the corruption/curse. The warlock doesn't have to be focused on a single task, because you gave him the unique ability to cast two attack spells per round - the only class able to do that, until Quicken comes into play at very high levels.

Conclusion... Right now, I think I should rest my case. It doesn't sound like I'll convince you, but I think I have been able to share my concerns. Thanks for listening!

[BananaPhone]

Though we disagree I like to think neither of our positions are unreasonable and that someone looking at them can both see where we're coming from.

The only way we're going to get to see how it plays out in practice is by play-testing it, which I'm hoping to get the chance to do in Hatters game (if I get in - every chance I won't).

[WhatsWithCanada]

I'll be reading through this more as my day goes on and updated more of a response but:

My immediate concern that has not been addressed is Shadow Damage. Right now it's the most powerful damage type in the game except for maybe untyped/divine, since nothing would have natural resistances to it. The only way it can be protected against is through the use of spells, which don't come up as often as outright resistances and immunities.

My suggestion is to leave shadow damage as a descriptor but have it deal half of it's damage as cold damage and half of it's damage as negative energy. That way you don't have to shoehorn a whole new damage type into the game and it's still quite powerful since again nothing has resistance to negative energy but atleast they can soak half of the spell with cold resistance and immunities. (It would also keep things thematic.)

[BananaPhone]

Oo that's an interesting idea. Half cold half negative damage. That's very thematic. It's like the cold void is draining the life from you!

I'd still have to include a tooltip that it doesn't heal undead. This means Undead would have a natural DR against the core abilities, and there's a chance that they'll have resistance against Cold as well. But if that's the case, there's still the Fire spells of the locks normal progression for those dark times.

Yes, I'll put that in and see how it goes. Thanks

[Gwynfrid]

My suggestion is to leave shadow damage as a descriptor but have it deal half of it's damage as cold damage and half of it's damage as negative energy. That way you don't have to shoehorn a whole new damage type into the game and it's still quite powerful since again nothing has resistance to negative energy but atleast they can soak half of the spell with cold resistance and immunities. (It would also keep things thematic.)

Yes, that's a good one. It would check one item off the issues list. There's no logical reason why it should not heal undead, however.

[BananaPhone]

Because undead were never intended to be the achillies heel of this class. I agreed to cold and negative because thematically its the closest to the "overpowered" shadow. As a consequence, all members of a monster type that player parties come across with disturbing frequency now have an inherent resilience against the warlock at levels where they don't have the tools to creatively circumnavigate it. Taking away the healing component changes Warlocks from "a liability when fighting undead" to "a non-preferred choice". There's a reason a party doesn't want an evil cleric with when fighting undead, and it's a characteristic I never intended for the class.

[Gwynfrid]

Because undead were never intended to be the achillies heel of this class. I agreed to cold and negative because thematically its the closest to the "overpowered" shadow. As a consequence, all members of a monster type that player parties come across with disturbing frequency now have an inherent resilience against the warlock at levels where they don't have the tools to creatively circumnavigate it. Taking away the healing component changes Warlocks from "a liability when fighting undead" to "a non-preferred choice". There's a reason a party doesn't want an evil cleric with when fighting undead, and it's a characteristic I never intended for the class.

I disagree with this at so many different levels, it's just amazing . I'm not going to address the main ones, because that would bring us back to the above discussion. But your last point, while not directly relevant to the debate, intrigues me: Why on earth would a party not want an evil cleric when fighting undead?

[BananaPhone]

My point is that Negative damage gives a commonly faced enemy an inherent damage reduction against the warlocks main abilities which, as I've demonstrated, is a severe hindrance because of their low damage. Now if the locks ability also healed said enemy, then 1 out of the 2 damaging schools of magic they rely upon is gone. This is an enemy that I never intended for the class to be especially weak towards and speaking from experience, having to spend the first few levels of a game doing nothing because nothing you have can effect the enemy is any way, is a stake to the heart of fun.

[Hattish Thing]

Half-Negative half-cold cast on an undead would heal the undead for half the damage done, in my personal opinion, as a DM.

[BananaPhone]

Right, I got rid of the permanent summons and replaced it with something more precarious. Tell me what ya'll think:


Summoning Amulet:

Warlocks are demonologists without compare. While other paltry casters may weave minor parlor tricks to conjure a devil in order to ask nicely for a favour, a warlock instead enslaves and demands obedience.

Upon reaching level 10, when a warlock conjures a devil, demon or daemon via the Planar Binding series of spells they have the option of betraying their summoned guest and forcing their obedience. This takes place in two stages.

In the first the warlock must prepare a Summoning Amulet. The form of this prison can take almost any form, as long as it is roughly fist-sized and etched with infernal runes. Once ready, the warlock follows the same procedure as they would for making Wand of Magic Jar, with only a single charge and caster level equal to the Hit Dice of the creature they intend to imprison, paying the price in raw materials and meeting the Spellcraft DC check as normal. The warlock does not need the Craft Wand creation feat to do this nor need to know the Magic Jar spell, as this ability provides all the expertise required.

Once the warlock has prepared their Summoning Amulet, they cast the necessary Planar Binding spell and conjure the devil, demon or daemon by the usual rules for the Planar Binding spell they are using. Once materialised, the creature is allowed an opposed Sense Motive check. If they succeed then the creature is alerted to some type of foul play, and so the warlock and their allies are denied a surprise round. Once this has been determined, the Warlock can turn on their conjured guest at any time, during which the summoned creature is allowed to use their abilities to fight back or attempt an escape. Should the creature be reduced to 0 hit points while in the presence of the Summoning Fetish, they are immediately drawn within the items dimensions and trapped there. The magic of the Summoning Amulet compels obedience within its inhabitant and for 2 months after the creatures entrapment, it can be conjured from within the Summoning Amulet for 1 minute per caster level of the Warlock per day. This time does not have to be consecutive, but unused time does not carry over to the next day.

While summoned from the Summoning Amulet, the creature acts as if under the effects of Dominate Monster spell as if cast by the Warlock that created the Summoning Amulet, even if normally immune.

The warlock should not become complacent, however, for they are not assured complete control. There are three ways in which the imprisoned creature may break their bondage an visit revenge upon their captor.

First, should the creature ever make its willpower save against resisting commands that would be against its nature in two consecutive turns then it has broken free from the Summoning Amulet. It must then either be defeated once more (which does not reset the creatures entrapment time) or it will do as it desires.

Secondly, if the Summoning Amulet is broken then the magic that keeps the creature trapped will immediately be undone and the creature will be free to do as they will.

Third, should 2 months pass since the creatures first entrapment within the Summoning Amulet, the amulet will crumble to dust and the creature will be set free. The only way to avoid this method of release is to either pay the raw materials necessary in stage 1 to reinforce the Summoning Amulets magic wards for another 2 months, or dispose of it within a Bag of Holding or Handy Haversack and hope that the creature has neither the means of escaping once released nor the ill will to seek vengeance (though that seems unlikely).

A warlock may only possess one Summoning Amulet containing a single entrapped creature at a time.