On the fertility of half-elves

[asorel]

Has there been any mention, explicit or otherwise, on the ability for half-elves (and half-orcs, for that matter) to reproduce? If an official stance has been taken, has it been consistent throughout editions? I ask because I had been considering fluffing up my half-elf as having a bit more Elf than Human blood in him, resultant of the repeated exposure the two races would have in an urbanized environment, as a way of explaining his advanced height and higher Dexterity score.

[Grinner]

They're implicitly quite capable of it.

Personally, I think it might be kinda cool if Tolkienesque fantasy took a page from hard sci-fi and made the half-breeds mostly sterile. That's your call, though.

[Ravens_cry]

They're implicitly quite capable of it.

Personally, I think it might be kinda cool if Tolkienesque fantasy took a page from hard sci-fi and made the half-breeds mostly sterile. That's your call, though.

Or not breed at all, except with magical assistance. But, yes, they can breed. There is even mention, if I recall, of 2nd generation half elves been more likely to have human eye colours, while 1st generation are exclusively green.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Forgottten Realms has a kingdom whose nobility are almost all half-drow, several generations worth of 'em.

[Hiro Protagonest]

In 4e, half-elves explicitly have occasional "pure" communities, so unless they kidnap all their residents, yes. I see no reason to think any different for other hybrids or editions given that there really isn't any evidence to the contrary (real world animal hybrids don't count unless there was absolutely zero evidence one way or the other).

[Ravens_cry]

In 4e, half-elves explicitly have occasional "pure" communities, so unless they kidnap all their residents, yes. I see no reason to think any different for other hybrids or editions given that there really isn't any evidence to the contrary (real world animal hybrids don't count unless there was absolutely zero evidence one way or the other).

Plus, some hybrids are fertile, some more than others.

[Solaris]

They're implicitly quite capable of it.

Personally, I think it might be kinda cool if Tolkienesque fantasy took a page from hard sci-fi and made the half-breeds mostly sterile. That's your call, though.

Not all cross-breeds are sterile. I've crossed blue wag platyfish with green wild-type swordtails and the resultant hybrids are quite fertile.

[SiuiS]

Has there been any mention, explicit or otherwise, on the ability for half-elves (and half-orcs, for that matter) to reproduce? If an official stance has been taken, has it been consistent throughout editions? I ask because I had been considering fluffing up my half-elf as having a bit more Elf than Human blood in him, resultant of the repeated exposure the two races would have in an urbanized environment, as a way of explaining his advanced height and higher Dexterity score.

Half elves can explicitly breed. Elven taint is specific in that a elf blood, once mixed with human, can never again be pure elf, the reason given below. Half elves are at least "50% elf", and if the amount of their human heritage ever exceeds 50% they will be a human, not a half elf.

This means that so long as several generations of half elves roughly a hundred years or more ago existed, human villages will occasionally spawn half elves from human unions though. That's cool.

They're implicitly quite capable of it.

Personally, I think it might be kinda cool if Tolkienesque fantasy took a page from hard sci-fi and made the half-breeds mostly sterile. That's your call, though.

Half elves are not a hybrid in the genetic sense. They are magically tainted humans, specifically. It's the elf's faerie heritage that allows them to breed with humans. Half-elf should be a template but has instead been carried over as a legacy race.

[Roxxy]

It depends on how different you consider elves and humans to be from each other. Haven't seen official word, and it probably differs by setting, anyway.

In my worlds half elves are fertile, but my races do not differ much in lifespan or fertility rates at all, and I consider elves, dwarves, orcs, and standard humans (which I call magni) to all be members of the Human species. It's sort of like how dogs are all members of the same species, despite the massive variety of different breeds. Since an elf and a magni are of the same species, they have no difficulties interbreeding, and the offspring have normal fertility. In fact, my Scandinavia has almost as many elf/magni/dwarf mixed race individuals as it does elves, magni, and dwarves.

[Bob of Mage]

Or not breed at all, except with magical assistance. But, yes, they can breed. There is even mention, if I recall, of 2nd generation half elves been more likely to have human eye colours, while 1st generation are exclusively green.

For all we know the first Half-Elf came from the use of magic. Say an elf and a human loved each other very much and wanted to have childern. Normally this wouldn't work, but one of them was a powerful spellcaster. Said mage uses an epic level spell to rewrite the laws of nature and not only make half-elves happen, but also a true breeding race. Weirder things have happened. This is also why baseing things off how they work in our world can quickly fall apart.

Anyone else have a better theroy of where half-elves come from?

[Roxxy]

Half elves can explicitly breed. Elven taint is specific in that a elf blood, once mixed with human, can never again be pure elf, the reason given below. Half elves are at least "50% elf", and if the amount of their human heritage ever exceeds 50% they will be a human, not a half elf.

This means that so long as several generations of half elves roughly a hundred years or more ago existed, human villages will occasionally spawn half elves from human unions though. That's cool.

Half elves are not a hybrid in the genetic sense. They are magically tainted humans, specifically. It's the elf's faerie heritage that allows them to breed with humans. Half-elf should be a template but has instead been carried over as a legacy race.

I would think that would be rather dependent on the campaign setting, though. For example, Golarion elves aren't faerie related at all. Granted, I don't like Golarion elves.

[asorel]

Half elves can explicitly breed. Elven taint is specific in that a elf blood, once mixed with human, can never again be pure elf, the reason given below. Half elves are at least "50% elf", and if the amount of their human heritage ever exceeds 50% they will be a human, not a half elf.

This means that so long as several generations of half elves roughly a hundred years or more ago existed, human villages will occasionally spawn half elves from human unions though. That's cool.



Half elves are not a hybrid in the genetic sense. They are magically tainted humans, specifically. It's the elf's faerie heritage that allows them to breed with humans. Half-elf should be a template but has instead been carried over as a legacy race.

Do you have a source for this? I'm not questioning the data, but I am curious as to when and where this was stated.

[Red Fel]

In Eberron (one of the 3.5 settings), Half-Elves may have once been a hybrid, but are now considered a legitimate and independent true-breeding race. In fact, two Dragonmarked Houses (Lyrandar and Medani) boast exclusively Half-Elven membership. Membership in a Dragonmarked House (or at least carrying a Dragonmark lineage) requires a true-bred race; for example, a Half-Elf child of a Dragonmarked Human could not receive his parent's Dragonmark.

It's kind of impossible for Half-Elves to receive the Dragonmark of a Half-Elf parent without being able to breed. Similarly, it's impossible for the child of a Half-Elf parent to receive his parent's Dragonmark if he is anything other than a Half-Elf.

[LibraryOgre]

Do you have a source for this? I'm not questioning the data, but I am curious as to when and where this was stated.

In AD&D, this was explicitly the case... 50% or more was half-elf, less than 50% is human.

Forgotten Realms also has at least 2 communities that are heavily half-elven... Dambrath is ruled by half-drow, and Deepingdale is 20% half-elf, with many second and third generation.

[Ravens_cry]

For all we know the first Half-Elf came from the use of magic. Say an elf and a human loved each other very much and wanted to have childern. Normally this wouldn't work, but one of them was a powerful spellcaster. Said mage uses an epic level spell to rewrite the laws of nature and not only make half-elves happen, but also a true breeding race. Weirder things have happened. This is also why baseing things off how they work in our world can quickly fall apart.

Anyone else have a better theroy of where half-elves come from?

Ew, that means all half elves are the result of some MASSIVE incest. Damn, no wonder they suck. They are in-bred worse than some dog breeds!
Idea: Half elves are separate serf race who serve true elves, who in turn serve an upper oligarchy of true immortals called the Eldest. They are called half elves because they kind of look like humans, more than regular elves anyway, who are all orange space lemurs like Mialee, They aren't actually related to humans at all.
Actual half-elves are one off magical creations as described above, and are practically one per generation at most, as fashion and whims dictate.

[Psyren]

Races of Destiny:

A few half-elves live in small communities composed entirely of their fellow half-elves. Such communities often spring from racially segregated neighborhoods in teeming metropolises or large family settlements that grow into villages. When two half-elves breed, the progeny is another half-elf, so these communities can sustain themselves indefinitely.

[Red Fel]

Damn, no wonder they suck.

An 8th-level Commoner who can create a three-hour tornado with a 720' radius would like a word with you.

[Ravens_cry]

Races of Destiny:
A few half-elves live in small communities composed entirely of their fellow half-elves. Such communities often spring from racially segregated neighborhoods in teeming metropolises or large family settlements that grow into villages. When two half-elves breed, the progeny is another half-elf, so these communities can sustain themselves indefinitely.

Bah, think you're so fancy with your book knowledge and facts and such.
Bah, I say, and, again, bah! ()

[Stellar_Magic]

Bah, think you're so fancy with your book knowledge and facts and such.
Bah, I say, and, again, bah! ()

Generally, though it hasn't actually come up, but generally i'd rule that two half-elves would have a 50% chance of producing a Half-elf, a 25% chance of producing a (mechanically) human, and a 25% chance of producing a (mechanically) elf. Actual appearance and mechanical stats may not match up, as appearance and physical characteristics are not the same as race modifiers.

[Solaris]

Similarly, it's impossible for the child of a Half-Elf parent to receive his parent's Dragonmark if he is anything other than a Half-Elf.

Where's it say that? I recall reading something quite different.

[Ravens_cry]

An 8th-level Commoner who can create a three-hour tornado with a 720' radius would like a word with you.

That's hardly going to be in all campaigns, and I was going by their racial features.

[Mando Knight]

Tolkien had the offspring of Men and Elves fully fertile: the kings of Númenor (and through them, the kings of Gondor and Arnor) were descendants of half-elves. Their first king, Elros Tar-Minyatur, was born of Eärendil and Elwing, themselves half-elven (Elwing was also 2nd generation half-elf, her father being the half-elf Dior... though her mother was a full-blooded Elf). His brother was Elrond, most famous as the Lord of Rivendell in the Third Age. And yes, that means that Aragorn and Arwen were first cousins, too-many-goddamn-times removed (from a genetics point of view, the number of generations between Elros and Aragorn means that Aragorn and Arwen would be no less related than you* or I, though the blood of the kings of Númenor did give him vitality unlike anyone living... the One Ring is destroyed in his late eighties, and reigned for another 122 years, dying at age 210).

*Assuming you are not actually a close relative of mine, that is.

[Ravens_cry]

Generally, though it hasn't actually come up, but generally i'd rule that two half-elves would have a 50% chance of producing a Half-elf, a 25% chance of producing a (mechanically) human, and a 25% chance of producing a (mechanically) elf. Actual appearance and mechanical stats may not match up, as appearance and physical characteristics are not the same as race modifiers.

Interesting indeed, but I do like my three castes idea as described above.

[SiuiS]

I always found the "use real world genetics for your mystical mutations that exist specifically because they defy known science" route to be a bit gauche myself. Punnet squares of elf childrens is akin to elf fertility like 'you roll dice and tabulate numbers against set difficulties to see if you beat enough benchmarks to declare a win' is to adventuring in D&D. Maybe accurate, sometimes, but boring as sin and not true to any of the source material.

I would think that would be rather dependent on the campaign setting, though. For example, Golarion elves aren't faerie related at all. Granted, I don't like Golarion elves.

Golarion isn't standard D&D, though. It's not even a different campaign setting, it's on the same level of difference as the world of warcraft d20 game is. Golarion elves are also six feet tall, four feet of which is their ears. Different species from D&D elf, really.

Do you have a source for this? I'm not questioning the data, but I am curious as to when and where this was stated.

2e, touched on somewhat obliquely in a 3.0 book somewhere, never overwritten. As this is general RPG, and it's the only source that ever bothered to get exhaustive...

It's also funny because every later, definitive source does not actually contradict this at all; two half elves (each 50/50) would of course produce another half elf — they produce children who are also 50/50. Really, the only weird thing is the "cannot ever produce an elf" part, which I like to hold in reserve as a thing that goes away for children of momentous occasions and world shaking prophecies. The human child who turns out to have been a half elf all along, or the half elf child who is really an elf (perhaps even a lost species!) is cool.

In Eberron (one of the 3.5 settings), Half-Elves may have once been a hybrid, but are now considered a legitimate and independent true-breeding race. In fact, two Dragonmarked Houses (Lyrandar and Medani) boast exclusively Half-Elven membership. Membership in a Dragonmarked House (or at least carrying a Dragonmark lineage) requires a true-bred race; for example, a Half-Elf child of a Dragonmarked Human could not receive his parent's Dragonmark.

It's kind of impossible for Half-Elves to receive the Dragonmark of a Half-Elf parent without being able to breed. Similarly, it's impossible for the child of a Half-Elf parent to receive his parent's Dragonmark if he is anything other than a Half-Elf.

That stands to reason. If they had a human child it wouldn't qualify for the half elf only mark.

Tolkien had the offspring of Men and Elves fully fertile: the kings of Númenor (and through them, the kings of Gondor and Arnor) were descendants of half-elves. Their first king, Elros Tar-Minyatur, was born of Eärendil and Elwing, themselves half-elven (Elwing was also 2nd generation half-elf, her father being the half-elf Dior... though her mother was a full-blooded Elf). His brother was Elrond, most famous as the Lord of Rivendell in the Third Age. And yes, that means that Aragorn and Arwen were first cousins, too-many-goddamn-times removed (from a genetics point of view, the number of generations between Elros and Aragorn means that Aragorn and Arwen would be no less related than you* or I, though the blood of the kings of Númenor did give him vitality unlike anyone living... the One Ring is destroyed in his late eighties, and reigned for another 122 years, dying at age 210).

*Assuming you are not actually a close relative of mine, that is.

Tolkien's half elves weren't half elves, they were allowed to choose to be man or elf. Elrond chose elfin immortality and his brother chose human mortality, for example - and elrond is quite literally a defining part of the template of elven archetypal form.

[hamishspence]

Shining South does touch on "how much drow blood is needed to qualify as a half-drow" though.

1/32 drow blood is about the minimum required to be "Crinti" (half-drow in law). One of the city rulers is called a "half-drow aristocrat 13" and has that level of drow blood - and looks a lot more like a human than a drow - though she still benefits from the half-drow abilities.

[Red Fel]

Where's it say that? I recall reading something quite different.

I believe it's implied by the sidebar here on reincarnation.

A character who possesses a dragonmark will keep his dragonmark even in his new form. However, he cannot pass the dragonmark to his descendants. So reincarnation makes it possible to find an orc with the Mark of Storm, but this will not produce an entire dynasty of dragonmarked orcs.

Here's what I take from that:

• A member of a Dragonmarked race who is Reincarnated into a new race will retain his Dragonmark, if any.
• However, he cannot pass it on to heirs of the new race.

This tells me that members of a race that does not ordinarily get the Dragonmark cannot acquire it by birth from a parent who possesses it. For example, the Half-Orc child of a member of House Vadalis (a Human-only House) cannot acquire the Mark of Handling from his Human ancestry.

It's possible I missed a section, but that's what I recall.

[Anonymouswizard]

In my worlds half elves are fertile, but my races do not differ much in lifespan or fertility rates at all, and I consider elves, dwarves, orcs, and standard humans (which I call magni) to all be members of the Human species. It's sort of like how dogs are all members of the same species, despite the massive variety of different breeds. Since an elf and a magni are of the same species, they have no difficulties interbreeding, and the offspring have normal fertility. In fact, my Scandinavia has almost as many elf/magni/dwarf mixed race individuals as it does elves, magni, and dwarves.

That gives me some worldbuiling ideas where they are all breeds of human, and breeding between races has a 25% chance of being race A, 25% chance of being race B, and 50% of being a "mutt" human (actual chances vary based upon purity), with the continent spanning empire having races appear at "random" due to heritage occasionally creating "pure breeds" (although normally with slightly different looks) out of chance. In other regions marriage is more tightly controlled so that families generally maintain their traditional race, although occasional intermarriage is used to stop them from dying out.

[Roxxy]

Golarion isn't standard D&D, though. It's not even a different campaign setting, it's on the same level of difference as the world of warcraft d20 game is. Golarion elves are also six feet tall, four feet of which is their ears. Different species from D&D elf, really.

Wait, what? It's the default Pathfinder setting, and PF is a relatively sizeable portion of the D&D community.

2e, touched on somewhat obliquely in a 3.0 book somewhere, never overwritten. As this is general RPG, and it's the only source that ever bothered to get exhaustive...

2e's outlook on races is not necessarily something the third generation of D&D players has read or uses, however. I wouldn't call anything it says a default assumption of the game.

[Sith_Happens]

Generally, though it hasn't actually come up, but generally i'd rule that two half-elves would have a 50% chance of producing a Half-elf, a 25% chance of producing a (mechanically) human, and a 25% chance of producing a (mechanically) elf. Actual appearance and mechanical stats may not match up, as appearance and physical characteristics are not the same as race modifiers.

That only works if there's a single "Elf vs. Human" gene. If it's more of an "X% of the genome" difference, which it most certainly is, then you're only going to see a very slight deviation per generation in the elfness/humanness ratio.

As for comparing editions and settings, I'm pretty sure the way it works in 3.5 is that the first few generations of dilution are still mechanically Half-Elves, then eventually they're just Elves or Humans, possibly with a feat to represent the mixed heritage.

[Ravens_cry]

Another problem is that many elven 'racial' features are likely cultural, though I suppose it's possible, if creepy, for proficiency with certain weapons to be a genetic thing,