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Thread: Belkar
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2014-12-15, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Belkar
Can someone explain to me how Belkar is so crazy efficient in melee crunch wise? What he did to crystal and the other rogues was amazing. His build seems fairly optimized.
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2014-12-15, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: Belkar
The answer is, he isn't. He is like this because of a mix of Rich not caring about crunch that way and fighting a lot of low level mooks. His build is probably one of the most unoptimized of the whole comic.
Edit: More to the point, he's a pure melee combatant with a racial str penalty, using TWF without sources of bonus damage and doesn't have the wis to use even one of his spells.Last edited by Gray Mage; 2014-12-15 at 09:51 PM.
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2014-12-15, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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Re: Belkar
His sheer number of attacks and ability to reliably do at least 7 or so damage an attack, combined with good AC, makes him really good at fighting hordes of level 1 warriors. He is not good at much else. Notice how thoroughly Roy trounced him in their mock-duel.
Against the hobgoblins, it wasn't as hard as it looked. Past a certain level, ECL 1 enemies can't really do anything to you. It was the perfect set up for him. And Roy would have fared better in that encounter, anyway.
Defeating Miko was mostly him manipulating her emotions and being pretty clever when he has to be.
The thieves guild was a more impressive feat. But for that, he had the combination of element of surprise, the damage Haley had already done, and he got lucky. Haley did more damage in that fight, anyway.
Finally, Belkar is an okay character in OOTS land which builds characters with about the optimization of WOTC's sample characters. These are people, not character sheets, so feats and skill points are chosen organically, not plotted out ahead of time for maximum efficiency. (Although I often wonder why that is in 'game mechanics are literal' style worlds. One would think there would be people whose entire job depended on advising the best build options and it would be a field of science that improved over time. But that would make it hard or impossible to tell most stories.)Last edited by SowZ; 2014-12-15 at 10:41 PM.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
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2014-12-15, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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Re: Belkar
I think he must have a very high Dex and weapon finesse to be hitting all the time, which is reasonable if he didn't bother to put anything into wisdom. Maybe he's a strongheart halfling for the extra feat? Idk though, I haven't ever done any ranger builds.
Last edited by Jak; 2014-12-15 at 10:40 PM.
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2014-12-15, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
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2014-12-15, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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- southeastern USA
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Re: Belkar
Last edited by Jak; 2014-12-15 at 10:52 PM.
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2014-12-15, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Skyron, Andromeda
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Re: Belkar
The Class and Level Geekery thread has part of a statblock for Belkar that could help answer this question. However, Belkar really isn't all that optimized. Most of where he looks is good is against low-level mooks and the like. Until recently, he barely utilized most of his class features.
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2014-12-15, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
Re: Belkar
His build is significantly more optimized for melee combat than the rogues, simply by virtue of being a ranger/barbarian instead of a rogue. I ran the numbers once, and Belkar's BAB and HP(from class) ended up being higher than Bozzok's, despite Bozzok's level advantage. Just having a class appropriate to the situation is very meaningful.
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2014-12-16, 12:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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2014-12-16, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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2014-12-16, 05:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Belkar
I wouldn't say it was that impressive--given Belkar's in the region of level 15, and most of the people he were facing were relatively low level mooks, you'd expect him to carve through them without too much trouble. His fight against Bozzok and Crystal was a bit more impressive, but even then, I believe Rangers get a better BAB than rogues do, which would have helped him a lot; also he was explicitly fighting defensively and didn't go for the jugular until Bozzok ran off.
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2014-12-16, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Belkar
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2014-12-16, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: Belkar
Don't forget he was probably also raging at the time.
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2014-12-16, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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2014-12-16, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: Belkar
I suspect The Giant's opinion of what we used to call "min-maxing" builds can be seen in this strip.
Personally, I think once you're building a character solely around tactical effectiveness, instead of "what this imaginary person would do", you're moving away from roleplaying and into a tactical combat game. (Which can still be fun, of course.)Last edited by runeghost; 2014-12-16 at 01:05 PM.
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2014-12-16, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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2015-01-05, 06:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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- New Zealand
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Re: Belkar
1) "DM fiat" aka Rich wants Belkar to be effective
2) Belkar's build could potentially be decent still if he took the right feats"We can curse it or nurse it and give it a name"
"And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death."
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2015-01-05, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Dallas, TX
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Re: Belkar
You're thinking like a player, not a character. He was born a halfling; that's not a decision.
Muggsy Bogues did not decide to be a short basketball player. He's a short man who decided to play basketball.
Similarly, Belkar never got to ask himself, "Would this Ranger build be better as a human or dwarf?" He is a halfling; he decided to be a Ranger. So he'll be the best Ranger he can be.
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2015-01-06, 04:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- South Texas
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Re: Belkar
We are talking about a person who would lobby to have slaying the innocent replace baseball as Americas past-time. Imagine a build made for just that. of course he can lay on the damage
The King demands . . . Cake!
Looking for anyone willing to make an avatar for me, message me if interested
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2015-01-07, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Belkar
Worth noting that rangers get a bonus (+3 or +4 IIRC) on both to-hit and to-damage vs. their "favored enemy." I'm just about positive that Belkar's #1 favored enemy is humans. Factor in those bonuses and the two-weapon thing gets really nasty really quickly.
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2015-01-07, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Brazil
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Re: Belkar
Never thought about humans being a favorite enemy... makes sense, though.
Also, for anyone questioning why Belkar would choose to be a TWF ranger, rather than an archery ranger, it bears remembering that the OOTS technically started their career in 3.0 edition, not 3.5 (since the very first comic is all about switching over to 3.5). Back then, IIRC, the ONLY option for rangers was TWF. Also, they got d10 hit dice, and Small characters like Belkar could use Medium-sized weapons. So, while still far from optimized, Belkar's build at least made more sense as a 3.0 character... until he got screwed over by the shift to 3.5 (which is the whole joke of that first comic).The Heplion Contingency - Low-tech Cyberpunk with Psychic Powers!
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2015-01-07, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2015-01-07, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2015-01-07, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar
Last edited by Emperordaniel; 2015-01-07 at 11:27 AM.
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2015-01-07, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Belkar
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2015-01-07, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Brazil
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Re: Belkar
Well they *could* be shooting from atop a stool or a stepladder
Last edited by SirKazum; 2015-01-07 at 11:46 AM.
The Heplion Contingency - Low-tech Cyberpunk with Psychic Powers!
D&D Creations / Homebrewing
The Haliburn Galaxy: D&D Reinvented as Science-Fiction
Book-Learnin' - Extended rules for the Knowledge skill
General Fiction
Wattpad Profile
Worldline Collapse
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2015-01-07, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: Belkar
According to Wikipedia, a longbow is a bow which is approximately as tall as the person shooting it. And D&D has stats for small longbows. So I imagine a halfling would use a 3' tall longbow.
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2015-01-07, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Dallas, TX
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Re: Belkar
According to Vaarsuvius's theory, Belkar's Favored Enemy must be anything he doesn't lust after.
And does anybody recall what fighting skills are included in the Sexy Shoeless God of War template?
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2015-01-07, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2015-01-07, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
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- Skyron, Andromeda
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