Help with a Cleric/Wizard Hybrid

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm interested in remaking a character I originally played in 3rd edition that was the child of two thee character belonging to me and my girlfriend.

The character was originally a half aasimar/half fire genasi who was capable of some swordplay , some divine magic and some arcane magic.

I'd like to try and replicate the character as a fire genasi str/int focuses cleric/wizard using gritty sergeant to get long sword proficiency.

How would you go about putting together a character using the pieces I've already laid out? I know the character will be pulled in two directions with clerical melee powers and wizard ranged spells. As a genasi with high str I know blasting on my wizard side seems like the obvious choice but I'm not certain it's the BEST choice.

[Sol]

I would almost certainly not hybrid those two classes, but if you are dead-set on it, then STR/INT genasi is probably the best way to do so, so kudos on that.

My recollection is that most of the STR cleric powers really want you to have a CHA modifier to be particularly potent, so that side of things may be pretty weak.

If you're open to alternate concepts, WIS/INT Avenger|Wizard, Avenger|Swordmage, Invoker|Swordmage, or Cleric|Swordmage may be superior, though of course mechanically subtly different, if the mechanics you want are truly those of the wizard and cleric.

The most optimal combination arcane/divine hybrid is of course Wizard|Invoker, though there's no real swordplay space in there, other than MCing Swordmage and using a weapliment

[Kurald Galain]

I've played a build like this and it can work pretty well. I can suggest three approaches here.

Your first option is to make a melee cleric with only average intelligence, and pick wizard powers that don't require attack rolls. The wiz has enough of those.

Your second option is to focus on wis and int, with a bit of cha and ignoring str. Then take the melee training feat, or a melee at will like beast switch, so you don't need str.

And your third option is to focus on wis and cha like a straight cleric, and take wizard powers that use a minor action. Since you're doing the wizard power in addition to a cleric attack, not in place of one, it's ok for it to be less accurate. This trick also works with some massive area powers, particularly fire shroud; if you're targeting 3 or 4 enemies then taking a -2 to hit is doable, as you're still likely to hit something.

[(Un)Inspired]

Are the cleric powers secondary riders so important that I'm really Fing myself over by not having more than a 12 starting cha?

I'd love to stick with genasi as the race as I'm partial to them and it closely reflect the originsl characters build. Is doing a str/int build with that genasi blasting feat simply too suboptimal to be a useful addition to a table?

I'd really love to actually have the option to kick arse with melee clerical powers and ranged wizard magic but I'll give up that dream if there's no functional way to have them side by side.

I was thinking elemental initiate for theme so he could have ki focus prof. For both wizard powers and longsword attacks. I was looking at the transcendent ki focus. How important is reach in 4e? It's pretty indispensable in other editions.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm afraid you're overestimating cleric melee powers. The cleric is a leader, not a striker.

It would probably make more sense to use Paladin or avenger as the divine side, or warlock as the arcane.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm afraid you're overestimating cleric melee powers. The cleric is a leader, not a striker.

It would probably make more sense to use Paladin or avenger as the divine side, or warlock as the arcane.

I wouldn't say I'm looking to make the character a striker. It's possible to kick ass without just focusing on damage right?

I was hoping to. Hold him as a good 5th man. Maybe using that cleric paragon path that let's use use an at will power 1/encounter as a minor action along with quicken spell casting to be able to double or triple tap every one in a while when damage is needed but also to be able to pour out healing with cleric magic and battlefield control with wizard spells. AC is easy at a cleric right? They even have several powers for marking don't they?

[Tegu8788]

The best mechanical combo would be a Paladin|Warlock and use a Teifling as a refluffed Genasi. The Genasi aren't bad, so don't worry about using them. Most Divine classes want Wis, and Arcane want Int, and most want different riders. The Pallock advantage is that it uses almost exclusively Cha.

Now, a Str/Wis Cleric/Wizard can get very solid AC, NADs will be good. If you're willing to swap a staff for the longsword you can do this a lot easier, Staff of Ruin is great and I dont know if it works on melee attacks. The melee cleric certainly can hit, but he'll be doing half the damage of a striker. If that. You will certainly be able to hit, but damage won't be high.

There are a few cleric powers if I recall that get a damage bonus for using a simple weapon, but I don't remember if they are Str or Wis. Depending on how optimized your party is, this could be real handy, or a drag. It's really hard to make perfect class translations. Melee attacks, healing, some blasts. Anything else you really want?

[GPuzzle]

Personally, my choice is to use a mix of close-burst-and-blast Cleric powers, Warpriest powers (basically Melee powers from the Cleric that use Wisdom instead of strength) and Wizard powers.

Due to that, you can be an Int+Wis Deva that is actually pretty great at what it does.

Then you multiclass Invoker for Flame of Hope and a big "hit these guys" target.

It's a pretty decent healer and debuffer.

[(Un)Inspired]

The best mechanical combo would be a Paladin|Warlock and use a Teifling as a refluffed Genasi. The Genasi aren't bad, so don't worry about using them. Most Divine classes want Wis, and Arcane want Int, and most want different riders. The Pallock advantage is that it uses almost exclusively Cha.

Now, a Str/Wis Cleric/Wizard can get very solid AC, NADs will be good. If you're willing to swap a staff for the longsword you can do this a lot easier, Staff of Ruin is great and I dont know if it works on melee attacks. The melee cleric certainly can hit, but he'll be doing half the damage of a striker. If that. You will certainly be able to hit, but damage won't be high.

There are a few cleric powers if I recall that get a damage bonus for using a simple weapon, but I don't remember if they are Str or Wis. Depending on how optimized your party is, this could be real handy, or a drag. It's really hard to make perfect class translations. Melee attacks, healing, some blasts. Anything else you really want?

One of the last 4e characters I played was a warlock/paladin. It was immensely fun but not what I'm looking for here.

I highly doubt I'll ever get to play this character so crafting it is just for funsies

[Dimers]

There's really nothing wrong with the Str+Int build aside from, well, hybridization. Strength melee powers for clerics could give you dazing (Wrathful Thunder), surge healing (Healing Strike) or interrupting (Mighty Hew) ... just for level 1 encounter powers! Clerics have a lot of power options. You wouldn't get top dollar for your feats as you level up, but you could easily stay useful to your party.

The two biggest issues I see are durability and armor. You'll have few hit points and surges, period. And you'll have to spend a feat on armor (or drop your healing class feature for scale proficiency) if you plan to be up there on the front lines much time at all. Weapon training is a problem too, but you already solved it with gritty sergeant.

How important is reach in 4e? It's pretty indispensable in other editions.

Dispensable. I mean, it's a pleasant convenience, but it's not tactically significant most of the time unless you build around it.

For the non-wizard side of the hybrid, you might also look at runepriest -- or warden, if you don't mind refluffing primal magic as divine. Warden would give you durability, elemental effects, and free choice of background because it'd get martial melee weapons anyway. Runepriest powers are more flexible in-the-moment than cleric's. And hybrid runepriest would probably give you longsword use and (mildly) improved durability too, since Serene Blade seems like a better pick for runic artistry than Wrathful Hammer or Defiant Word.

[DragonBaneDM]

The two biggest issues I see are durability and armor. You'll have few hit points and surges, period. And you'll have to spend a feat on armor (or drop your healing class feature for scale proficiency) if you plan to be up there on the front lines much time at all. Weapon training is a problem too, but you already solved it with gritty sergeant.

What about grabbing Battle Cleric's Lore to let you have a high AC?

[georgie_leech]

What about grabbing Battle Cleric's Lore to let you have a high AC?

The two biggest issues I see are durability and armor. You'll have few hit points and surges, period. And you'll have to spend a feat on armor (or drop your healing class feature for scale proficiency) if you plan to be up there on the front lines much time at all. Weapon training is a problem too, but you already solved it with gritty sergeant.

[masteraleph]

Battle Cleric's Lore isn't really dropping the healer feature, though (other than the name Healer's Lore). Better Leaders are ones who enable. A +2 bonus to attacks is likely to save a number of future hit points.

[Tegu8788]

And if you are Str/Int, the healer lore rider won't do much anyway.

[GPuzzle]

You don't even need to be STR+INT, because Warpriest powers like Brand of the Sun are melee and key off Wisdom.

[georgie_leech]

Battle Cleric's Lore isn't really dropping the healer feature, though (other than the name Healer's Lore). Better Leaders are ones who enable. A +2 bonus to attacks is likely to save a number of future hit points.

Whether it's optimised or more efficient or not, extra attacks aren't healing. My point was that he pointed out you could drop the class feature that improves healing, Healer's Lore, for one that gives Scale armor proficiency, Battle Cleric's Lore.

[Sol]

Whether it's optimised or more efficient or not, extra attacks aren't healing. My point was that he pointed out you could drop the class feature that improves healing, Healer's Lore, for one that gives Scale armor proficiency, Battle Cleric's Lore.

Which is, from an optimization standpoint, always the correct choice, even on pacifist clerics.

[georgie_leech]

Which is, from an optimization standpoint, always the correct choice, even on pacifist clerics.

As an optimised leader sure. But he wasn't saying get rid of a leader feature, but a healing one. In no way is an attack boost a healing feature, unless you want to argue that a Fighter's Weapon Talent is somehow a healing feature.

[Sol]

As an optimised leader sure. But he wasn't saying get rid of a leader feature, but a healing one. In no way is an attack boost a healing feature, unless you want to argue that a Fighter's Weapon Talent is somehow a healing feature.

I wasn't arguing with you, which is probably why my post didn't attempt to refute anything you said.

It was solely meant to clarify, for the OP, that this trade isn't a bad idea.

[Yakk]

I'll go way out there...

Cleric|Swordmage Gensai

Gives you Str|Int primary, your Cleric divine magic and Swordmage arcane magic. You are competent with the sword (and can even use it to cast spells, so you can get a beefy sword, and use weaplement optimization).

Or Runepriest|Swordmage Gensai for a really wonky build.

[GPuzzle]

I'll go way out there...

Cleric|Swordmage Gensai

Gives you Str|Int primary, your Runepriest divine magic and Swordmage arcane magic. You are competent with the sword (and can even use it to cast spells).

Or Runepriest|Swordmage Gensai for a really wonky build.

Cleric|Swordmage can work pretty well. You get good AC without needing to spend your Hybrid Talent (which you can then use for stuff like Channel Divinity or something else entirely) and still being able to use stuff like Polearms, a mark punishment that also tags a "hey you get a bonus" and also works as your OA if you go Power of Skill, Tactical Warpriest which is pretty sweet, and lots of agressive healing for a build that is constantly punishing enemies for hitting their allies be it through healing or attacking them.