Heroes of the Storm (Closed Beta Begins 13 Jan)

[Grytorm]

This will go way faster if you reactivate with refer-a-friend.

Bah and miss the whole experience of grinding things out slowly?

[Surrealistik]

I would like to point out that a pretty large number of pros are taking Nether Wind over Gathering Power, and they aren't generally dying all over the place. Kael is just so squishy that you can't reliably get enough kills without dying to get it past the 10% point or so, most of the time you're going to be kicking around with a bonus in the 6-10% range.

Nether Wind is a good enough talent that it is worth taking its guaranteed power over Gathering Power's potential power.

Pretty sure that GP is the favourite here between the two among pros, and it is certainly a hands down favourite in Masters; +7-11% (5% base, increments of 2%) to all of your damage dealers is still worth it over NW. Outside of pro games further, maxing out is pretty common.

Further, again, GP _does_ have a guaranteed component with its +5% baseline.

Flamethrower over Chain Bomb is a very simple decision. Potentially more damage, or guaranteed safe damage. Given that Chain Bomb gives you NO damage unless the enemy team is hitting each other with the explosions, most people prefer Flamethrower.

For pro games? Absolutely. You _need_ the safety; this is why it's a favourite there. That said Chain does make a substantial showing at Diamond and Master because you often (especially in Diamond) don't need that extra safety at those levels. Ultimately, I agree, the decision is simple: I take Flamethrower exactly as required. If I can get away with Chain Bomb, contingent on our team's heal n peel and the enemy team's capabilities, an assessment I can confidently make so late in the game by L13, I take it, otherwise it's Flamethrower; this is a decision that I often have to make. Conversely, I have never felt torn about Nether Wind or compelled to choose it.

Beyond that, Flamethrower is completely uninteresting to me, so I favour Chain's effect and default to it over a boring if effective range increase (should also be noted that Chain makes your mob clear even more efficient; it's not just about hoping/making Heroes cluster), though I do find myself leaning towards the former somewhat more out of necessity.

[GolemsVoice]

Damn, I justhad the most epic LiLi game. How exactly do you take screenprints in HotS?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Damn, I justhad the most epic LiLi game. How exactly do you take screenprints in HotS?

There's a standard "Print Screen" button on your keyboard; it copies a screenshot to your clipboard, and you can paste it into MS Paint or some other image editing program.

[GolemsVoice]

Whenever I try that it just gives me a black screen.

[GolemsVoice]

Spoiler

Show

BEHOLD

[Draken]

That is a lot of hero damage on a Lili.

[GolemsVoice]

That's why I was posting it. It was my most glorious LiLi moment ever.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Holy wow, Batman!

[Icewraith]

So you guys were generally more awesome than the other team but got out Sylvanas-ed?

[Draken]

So you guys were generally more awesome than the other team but got out Sylvanas-ed?

You can win all game long, but lategame, all it takes is one bad fight against a pushy team to lose.
Then again, there is an odd disconnect of colors between the screen info and the bigger info.

[Icewraith]

Oh wait no, they also won. I think. That really is weird- the red team won, but we're going to show them in blue because they're your team and the enemy is shown in red!

[GolemsVoice]

It's an odd combination of colours, because the screen is from a replay. We won the game, although Sylvanas was pretty crazy. I'm in the lower "red" team.

[Chen]

So are there any good resources for beginners around? I've done some cursory google searches and I tend to get either WAY too basic things or things that are significantly more advanced. Wanted to give this a shot since it seems like a less complicated LoL or the like.

[Infernally Clay]

I played a little during the closed beta and finally decided to give it a proper try a few days ago. I'm pretty bad at the moment but I'm trying to save up for Sylvanas. She seems like a good pick for the first hero I really try to "get". Could take a while, though. I haven't spent a penny of my gold and I'm level 7, so I think I need to hit level 10 before I can afford her.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hmm, I'm trying to remember if I've seen any good beginner guides. We've got a few "beginner" posts in the thread, lemme try and dig it up.

Post 407 (extensive)
Post 357 (short summary)
Post 317 (includes discussion of team composition
Post 219 (extensive)
This beginners' guide got linked in-thread

...and I think that's every beginner-oriented post in the thread? WHEW.

I played a little during the closed beta and finally decided to give it a proper try a few days ago. I'm pretty bad at the moment but I'm trying to save up for Sylvanas. She seems like a good pick for the first hero I really try to "get". Could take a while, though. I haven't spent a penny of my gold and I'm level 7, so I think I need to hit level 10 before I can afford her.

I forget; is she still on free rotation?

She's an awesome hero, but she's also 10k gold, so keep that in mind. I try to be sparse with how many of the expensive heroes I buy. (Indeed, I wanted to get Sylvanas for a while, then turned around and bought Brightwing instead. Haven't regretted it.)

[Gandariel]

There are really not that many important things to focus on:

If possible, at least one person should always be on each lane (to gain XP )

When team fights happen, be sure to be all together (4v5 fights don't usually end up well)

Try to take the objectives. They are really really important.

When in fights, focus down the main damage dealers and the healers, NOT the tanks.

Learn to kite (move-shoot-move-shoot in synch with your hero's attack speed ) to maximise your damage while chasing.

Follow your team : decide plans and follow them (like rushing for the core when your opponent are doing Mines)

Start off with the suggested talents from the Internet, THEN decide for yourself.

Sylvanas is cool (her Q's animation is really pretty ) and solid all-around.

You might wanna start off with Valla though: she's free this week so you can try her, she is very similar to Sylvanas with regards to gameplay, she is really strong, and she is only 2k

[GolemsVoice]

Both Valla and Sylvanas are solid choices, however, they are both quite fragile and can be frustrating to newer players. Like Gandariel, I'd suggest pickung up Valla and seeing if you like her, and if you do, save up for Sylvanas.

One of the msot important things I have learned, as a total newbie in the MOBA genre is that you should know very well just what you can afford during the game. Running after a hero and finishing them off just before they gets through the gate can be priceless, but running into the enemy team on your way there usually ends in death. So I'd suggest to play it safe at the beginning to get a feeling for when you can go dive after heroes and when its best to stay back.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

When team fights happen, be sure to be all together (4v5 fights don't usually end up well)

Also, pay attention to your levels. You get a talent at levels 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, and 20. This is a significantly more important upgrade than the standard health/mana/damage you get on other levels. In particular, Level 10 is when a team gets its ultimates. If the other team beats you to one of these levels, they'll have a significant edge during a teamfight.

You do not want a full teamfight if you're at 9 and they're at 10. You're going to lose, because they have ults and you do not. The other talent level-ups are also important, but they're not as devastating. If a team hits Level 10 before you, then do what you can to isolate its members and survive.

[Dgrin]

Also you can add people from the forums, I am pretty sure some of us will be willing to help you and explain the basics.

The best way would be to have someone experienced on voice chat with you, that may be a great starting point. Even simply pointing out little nuances in private chat can help you improve immensely. If you're playing on EU server, I can do it, otherwise just add people from the first post and ask them

EDIT: By the way, Olinser, not sure if you should but you can add me to the first post for NA server with the same Battle tag, just for the sake of completeness. I just never play there unless my friends suggest me to play a bit cause 160-170 ping there is a bit high for me

[Olinser]

Also you can add people from the forums, I am pretty sure some of us will be willing to help you and explain the basics.

The best way would be to have someone experienced on voice chat with you, that may be a great starting point. Even simply pointing out little nuances in private chat can help you improve immensely. If you're playing on EU server, I can do it, otherwise just add people from the first post and ask them

EDIT: By the way, Olinser, not sure if you should but you can add me to the first post for NA server with the same Battle tag, just for the sake of completeness. I just never play there unless my friends suggest me to play a bit cause 160-170 ping there is a bit high for me

Went ahead and put you in with a note about high ping.

[Icewraith]

For complete MOBA newbies, such as myself:

Co-op vs AI is much easier with human allies than with AI allies. Yes, you might be embarrassed about making newbie mistakes in front of actual humans, but the allied AI is terrible and only does well if a human that knows what they're doing is giving them commands. Also, more experienced players can help you out a bit and you can see how they move and what they do without being continually ganked by a team of human players with far more experience than you, and you can see how they play heroes you're interested in trying out.

Once you're comfortable against the AI in one or more roles, if you want to make gold faster you'll need to learn how to deal with human opponents and there will be a learning curve. But co-op (humans) vs. AI is still great for learning a new character or playing with friends who don't know what they're doing. The AI is good enough to contest objectives and take mercenary camps regularly and is good enough to kill you if you dive at a bad time or put yourself in a bad position. It's rare to lose to the AI (with human allies), but certain maps such as the mines if the humans focus too much on early kills and not enough on XP, the AI will be a couple levels ahead for the ensuing extended teamfight and will end up with a 70-30 golem. If this happens too many times the AI will eventually win since it's also usually smart enough to push with its golem.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'd also advise psyching yourself up for Quick Match as soon as possible. Use Versus AI to learn the basics of a new character, then do the bulk of your play in Quick Match. You'll struggle a lot more, but you'll learn from that struggle. The AI still isn't good at punishing human mistakes; human players are better at that, and when you're learning, you need someone to punish your mistakes before you learn bad habits.

[Infernally Clay]

About to play my first Valla match. Hopefully it goes well.

[Gandariel]

Valla is really good.

Look up a guide online for your build, or just use this:
1 +Range on your W
4 W also throws bombs
7 E also drops caltrops
10 your choice. Both are good.
13 W also slows
16 Blood for blood
20 nexus frenzy

Mostly use E to escape, use it offensively ONLY if you're sure you're getting a kill.

Don't be afraid to spam your W often, it has short cool down.
focus on the right target. Shoot the one the others are shooting at, or if you're the first shoot squishy assassins and healers.

You will likely have the highest DPS in your team, so your opponents will try to focus you down during team fights. Watch out. And expect a lot of Tyrael ults.

Also, don't complain " they're all attacking me". Be happy that you're the most dangerous one.

[Surrealistik]

Best Valla build overall is presently Multishot; some experimentation has gone on with Hungering Arrow at higher levels of play but I think these are situational builds at best. Autoattack builds have a high skill floor, but also suffer from a relatively low skill ceiling and I don't recommend them for that reason.

Multishot:

Composite Arrows > Arsenal > Searing Attacks > Strafe > Frost Shot > Blood for Blood > Nexus Frenzy/Bolt of the Storm

Hungering Arrow:

Siphoning Arrow > Puncturing Arrow > Repeating Arrow > Strafe > Frost Shot > Blood for Blood > Nexus Frenzy/Bolt of the Storm

Autoattack:

Rancor > Manticore > Searing Attacks > Rain of Vengeance (lets you keep autoattacking) > Giant Killer > Blood for Blood > Nexus Frenzy


Spam Multishot on clusters of enemies and tower lines. Save your Hungering Arrows for Heroes/towers. Move and autoattack mobs while keeping your distance as much as possible. Save Tumble to escape/pursue or double arrow via the Hungering Arrow build per Repeating Arrow. Save your ulties for team fights, or to secure a kill.

Searing Attacks you'll want to save for attacking tower lines/engaging merc camps/team fights.


For the Autoattack build, Vampiric Attacks and Tempered by Discipline can be worth it over Manticore and Giant Killer respectively versus compositions that are heavy on Assassins and light on Warriors/tanks or if you find you need more sustain due to harassment. These leech talents are also good for doing/healing off of Merc camps at L13+, and accumulating stacks prior to an engagement.

If they have lots of CC and/or heroes that are vulnerable to having their ulties interrupted by CC, consider Rain of Vengeance instead of Strafe.

If the enemy team is especially good and aggressive, or has lots of assassins/burst, take Bolt of the Storm over Nexus Frenzy.

As an addendum, I've seen Vengeance have some success, but I strongly recommend against picking it if the enemy team is heavy on CC (and thus capable of interrupting your Strafe).

[GolemsVoice]

Yeah, I usually take searing attacks, the damage boost is incredible. However, use it only when you can be sure that you'll get in a few autattacks, such as in teamfights or against towers and mercenaries. It CAN be nice to scare off a hero in 1v1, too.

[Dgrin]

I think Arsenal is quite underwhelming - the grenades are too slow and don't do a lot of damage. I very much prefer Puncturing Arrow even in W build. Not sure about level 7 - I alternate between Searing Attacks, Repeating Arrow and Caltrops while playing Valla in Multishot build. I think Caltrops are better for a new player, and you will figure out your own preference later when you're more comfortable with her

Speaking as someone who prefers Q build over others, for Hungering Arrow build it may sometimes be worth it to take Tumble at level 16. Even while knowing how strong is Blood for Blood is, additional mobility and one more Q can save your life. The main advantages of Q build are its range/safety and surprising burst. Tumble helps with both. I am still not sure for myself which is better by default. Also I like Rain of Vengeance but it is the matter of preference and enemy team composition.

Also consider trying Frost Shot into Executioner for an autoattack build - it is 40% damage and slow in your kit.

[Talesin]

I've been playing Valla a fair bit recently and have been playing a similar builds to the ones that have been linked here. I currently much much prefer the auto attack build because Valla usually has to drop tanky enemies because if you get in range of a Jaina/Kael'thas then they will destroy you. However one of Valla's real strengths is her ability to adapt her build based on what the enemy comp is.

If you need the burst to kill an Illidan or a Rehgar before they can get off their abilities then focus on the multishot or arrow build. I personally have gone for the W improving talents at 1 and 4 and the E resets Q cooldown talent. That allows for a lot of burst with a QWEQ combo to pick off a high priority target.

This does leave you a little exposed but then you have your ult to peel if you need it. I almost always take Rain of Vengence just because Valla does so much damage when not channeling strafe that I would rather have the ability to do that with the extra burst/CC from RoV.

[Surrealistik]

Arsenal is easy to underestimate; however, it racks up a lot of damage over the span of a game due to the fact that it's a multi AoE. Piercing Arrow may initially seem like the better idea, but it absolutely won't contribute as much to your output over time.

Think about it this way: at level 10 assuming each grenade hits 2 targets on average, that's 660 extra damage total: (7.5*10+35)*2*3. Compare that to Piercing which gets 1 more rebound hit for 108 extra damage total (33+7.5*10). Now adjust for cooldown to get damage over time: 660/8 = 82.5 vs 108/14 = 7.71. Even if you assume the grenades are only averaging one hit apiece (fair; they have tiny aoes), Arsenal still handily comes out ahead; its damage output is also more controllable.

That said, obviously take Piercing if you're going for a Hungering Arrow build due to all the other synergies involved with Siphoning and Repeating, but I definitely feel it has no place on a Multishot build.


L7's story is similar. Unless you're going for a Q build, take Searing over Repeating:

455.075 fully controllable extra damage vs 432 uncontrollable damage that requires blowing your Tumble (at L7), and can miss. The higher your level, the larger this gap. Granted, the arrow has more burst/upfront damage, but it's not worth the downsides.


As for Tumble on Q builds, way back when I first started with Valla and Vault made her Unstoppable (the buff that is ), I was a fan, but Blood for Blood ultimately proved the overwhelming choice between the slow, the drain, and the massive increment of controllable, and focused frontloaded burst damage. Just like Tumble on a pimped out Q, it helps you kill, CC and survive; everything Valla wants.

Even with a Q build that has Repeating Arrow I'd hesitate, because the arrow's damage annoyingly spreads out whenever it can (total bitch in team fights), isn't immediate, and does not slow.
Basically it's an extra Tumble when you need it + (33+7.5*16)*3+(66+15*16) = 765 spread out damage + 382.5 leech vs ~600 damage versus a single target, ~600 leech and a 3 second slow.

I think it might be worthwhile on a Q build versus teams that are very light on tanks and heavy on assassins due to added mobility and lower max HPs which means that B4B will tend to have a diminished effect, but that would pretty much be it.


Concerning the Jaina/Kael glass cannon meta that's so popular/fashionable these days, I find Multishot builds are the best way to deal with it, because Composite Arrows + Arsenal + Frost Shot is a great way to both deal decent damage at long range, _and_ set them up for your divers/follow ups due to the slow.