(oWoD Mage) Character Design Help

[Kesnit]

I will be joining an on-going Troupe oWoD mixing pot LARP game in about 2 weeks. My wife and mother-in-law have already been to one game with this group and say it’s a lot of fun. However, while I’ve played nWoD (including some nWoD Mage), I’ve only ever played 1 oWoD game (a tabletop VtM) and know almost nothing about oWoD Mage. I have the 20th Anniversary book and have read the fluff. My problem is on the build itself.

Spoiler: A Few Houserules

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1. Attributes are not subdivided beyond Physical, Social, and Mental. If you Perception 2, INT 4, and Wits 2, you would have a “Mentals” pool of 8.
2. No bonus XP to start. However, a PC gets 30 XP for surviving their first game.
3. Contested rolls are rock-paper-scissors. A tie in RPS is broken by the dice pool of the action.

Spoiler: Character Background

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Casimir Versnellingsbak (Dutch for “gearbox,” which I’ll explain below) was born in 1946. His parents were rare book dealers in The Netherlands and anticipated the rise of Hitler and WWII. They managed to get themselves, their fortune, their business, and their personal library (collected by many generations) out of the country prior to the war. They eventually settled in the US in the area where the game is set.

When he became an adult, Casimir took over the family business. He also began his own collection of rare books, focusing on old magic books. He is now retired and the business is being run by his daughter and grandson. He spends his time studying in his library (and on the Internet).

A few months ago, his son and daughter-in-law were killed in an accident. He invited his twenty-something granddaughter to move in with him, which she did. About a month ago, his granddaughter discovered she is a Changling. (My wife’s PC is his granddaughter. She is playing a steampunk Nocker named Veronica von Gearbox.) The energy release from this discovery triggered Casimir's Awakening as a Mage.

Spoiler: What I have of the build

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His Mentals are high (10), followed by Social (8). Being a 70-year old man, his Physicals are his dump.

Talents
Alertness 1
Awareness 1
Empathy 1
Expression 1
Leadership 1

Skills
Drive 1
Etiquette 1
Firearms 1
Research 3
Technology 2

Knowledges
Academics 3
Computer 1
Esoterica 1
Occult 3
Science 2
Lore 3

Spheres
Life 2
Mind 1
Prime 1
Spirit 1
Time 1

Backgrounds
Avatar 1
Library 5
Resources 5
Retainer 1

Arete 2

He’s an Orphan.

I have not had a chance to look much at Merits and Flaws. I anticipate 7 points in Flaws, giving me 7 more points to build with. The Merit Edidic Memory will take 2 of those.

The only “freebie points” I’ve spent were on raising my Arete and buying the 5 dots in Library, so I have 6 more.

1) I am not sure what Spheres to focus on. I was originally planning to focus on Life and Time, but after reading what the Spheres can do, I’m not sure. Prime makes sense for him, since that is the “fundamental of Magick.” My wife pointed out that with Spirit, she can build me a contraption and I can put a spirit in it, making a familiar. I really can’t see him using Forces or Matter. Correspondence and Entropy would be fun, but I’m already spreading myself very thin.

2) It’s been about a month since his Awakening, but he does not realize anything has happened. (He’ll figure it out at the first game.) However, I know that “strange things” will have been happening around him. Given the Spheres, what kind of things might be happening to a newly-Awakened Mage with no idea of what he can do or what he is?

[LibraryOgre]

He's in the best health of his life. Depending on his Awakening, he might have come out of a possibly-fatal illness and now finds himself feeling like he's in his 40s... most of his aches and pains are gone, and he simply feels GOOD (life 2, maybe some residuals from Prime 1). However, he's starting to have some weird mental effects... his mind is sharp, but he's seeing things (Spirit 1), and running across a lot of old memories (Time 1 and Mind 1), more vivid than ever. Certain objects may also develop a glow, like a migraine aurora (Prime 1).

On the build, you don't really need Eidetic Memory if you have Mind 1, IIRC.

[fishyfishyfishy]

1) I am not sure what Spheres to focus on. I was originally planning to focus on Life and Time, but after reading what the Spheres can do, I’m not sure. Prime makes sense for him, since that is the “fundamental of Magick.” My wife pointed out that with Spirit, she can build me a contraption and I can put a spirit in it, making a familiar. I really can’t see him using Forces or Matter. Correspondence and Entropy would be fun, but I’m already spreading myself very thin.

2) It’s been about a month since his Awakening, but he does not realize anything has happened. (He’ll figure it out at the first game.) However, I know that “strange things” will have been happening around him. Given the Spheres, what kind of things might be happening to a newly-Awakened Mage with no idea of what he can do or what he is?

Well since your Arete is 2, you won't have any spheres above that. You won't really have a focus beyond whatever your affinity sphere is since you don't have a score high enough to specialize with your limited pool of dots to spend. I recommend that you take your affinity sphere as something that represents how you Awakened and your connection to your avatar. Entropy (the fate aspect, not so much the the decay bit) and Time have close relation to the Fae. "Strange things happening" just screams Fate and luck manipulation to me. Entropy my man, it's fun to play with fortune. Mind makes a lot of sense as well. So my suggestion is to go with Entropy 2, Time 2, Mind 1, Prime 1 and maybe spend some freebie points on increasing those last two. Use your abilities to sense the future, predict outcomes, and spot patterns.

Good luck and happy gaming!

[Kesnit]

He's in the best health of his life. Depending on his Awakening, he might have come out of a possibly-fatal illness and now finds himself feeling like he's in his 40s... most of his aches and pains are gone, and he simply feels GOOD

I like those, and they make perfect sense. He’s 70; he’s probably forgotten what it is like to move without pain. (Heck, I’m 40 and have near-constant knee pain.)

However, he's starting to have some weird mental effects... his mind is sharp, but he's seeing things (Spirit 1),

OK.

and running across a lot of old memories (Time 1 and Mind 1),

What do you mean by this? He’s thinking more of the past? He’s finding items that remind him of the past?

On the build, you don't really need Eidetic Memory if you have Mind 1, IIRC.

Not saying you are wrong, but I didn’t see anything about that in Mind 1. It does say you can boost your Mentals, which would help with memory.

Well since your Arete is 2, you won't have any spheres above that.

I know. I meant for the future.

You won't really have a focus beyond whatever your affinity sphere

I don’t have an Affinity Sphere. As an Orphan, I can pick Any, and I’m not sure which one to focus on. Life and Mind were the ones I was thinking of, since that would give him almost-limitless time to learn everything there is to learn. However, in reading over the Spheres, I came up with ideas for how he would use several of them.

Entropy (the fate aspect, not so much the the decay bit) and Time have close relation to the Fae.

Entropy was an option, and one I am still considering. (The only ones off the table are Forces and Matter.) At the same time, I don’t want to spread myself too thin.

"Strange things happening" just screams Fate and luck manipulation to me.

It can also mean “seeing things out of the corner of his eye” and “feeling 30 years younger overnight.”

So my suggestion is to go with Entropy 2, Time 2, Mind 1, Prime 1

I really do see him with some Life. Exactly how much is debatable, but some Life.

and maybe spend some freebie points on increasing those last two.

I’m not adverse to using freebie points to raise Spheres. However, I only have 6 left before using points from Flaws, and I’m not sure how many points will be taken up with Merits. (In theory I’ll have 11 more points – enough for 1 Sphere – but if I use more than 4 more points in Merits, I don’t have enough to raise a Sphere.)

[fishyfishyfishy]

You can use Mind 1 to absorb information and multi-task more easily and possibly even recall information perfectly. Eidetic Memory is helpful but not necessary to get what you're trying to accomplish with your concept.

Edit: Played smartly a generalist type mage with a dot or two in every sphere can be just as effective, though not nearly as immediately powerful, as one who focuses on one or two.

[LibraryOgre]

What do you mean by this? He’s thinking more of the past? He’s finding items that remind him of the past?

Mostly, that Mind 1 is going to enhance his recall of past events and Time 1 will help him narrow down exactly when and where things happened... he'll have a retroactive timestamp on events in his memory. He'll see or smell or sense something, and it will intensely and immediately remind him of something in the past, almost like he's there again.

To further the "Awakening" metaphor, consider that if he's been asleep for 70 years, there's likely times when he "almost" woke up. When he stirred in his Sleep, and got the edges of an Awakening. With someone awakening in their 20s, this is less of a big deal, because they've experienced a lot fewer things in their life (usually). Someone who Awakens in their 70s, especially with Mind and Prime, may suddenly see times that he almost woke up, but went back to sleep, instead.

[JeenLeen]

What would you like him to be able to do, and do you plan on getting Arete 3 or higher eventually?
Without Correspondence (and what rank), can you cast spells beyond a range of touch? (I've read the rules both way, so it might be up to your DM.)

By answering that, I think I could help more.
Generally, it's recommended to start as Arete 3 during char-gen if you can, since Arete is so expensive via xp. Of course, this is optional, but your ability to successfully work magic is greatly decreased otherwise. Having Life 3 lets you heal others and harm others, so it's very, very useful.

Sphere-wise: I could recommend focusing on Life given what you want, due to its versatility (heal, damage, shapeshifting/body mod). Matter and Forces are also rather versatile, but if you want to avoid those, that's cool. Mind 1 lets you do some cool stuff and basically get really, really good at learning things. Prime 1 is also cool, unlocks some counter-spelling and 'Detect Magic' sight. I always found Time 1 fairly useless. If you plan to scry into the past, check with your DM how he handles Paradox from someone in the past seeing you scrying (via Time 1 or some other sense) and thus you indirectly changing the past; my DM ruled that if that happened and they changed it enough (like killed some folk in retaliation), you'd likely die from backlash. I had a fellow player's PC die due to him scrying a Nephandus, and the Nephandus noticed and killed some people.

With Spirit 3, you can make your own fetishes (spirits bound into things), but no need to get that high if your PC's granddaughter already has that power. Spirit 2 is enough to summon spirit allies and be able to interact with spirits. By the earlier edition rules, I think Life 3/Spirit 2 would let you harm spirits. For that reason, I could see a focus on Life, then Spirit, then Prime and/or Time.

Library 5 and Resources 5 is really, really rich. You could probably drop both to 4 and be 'as good' in most practical terms. (Though I've not read the 20th Anniversary version, so maybe the extra dot matters more there.) But some thought if you want to put those points elsewhere.

[Kesnit]

Mostly, that Mind 1 is going to enhance his recall of past events and Time 1 will help him narrow down exactly when and where things happened... he'll have a retroactive timestamp on events in his memory. He'll see or smell or sense something, and it will intensely and immediately remind him of something in the past, almost like he's there again.

But Mind 1 alone would let him recall things without needing a trigger, right?

What would you like him to be able to do, and do you plan on getting Arete 3 or higher eventually?

I foresee him getting really into magick and trying to learn all that he can. Assuming I play him long enough, I see him getting multiple Masteries. (Yes, I know that would take a massive amount of XP.)

In a way, I see him like a kid with a favorite toy. He's fascinated and wants to experiment.

Without Correspondence (and what rank), can you cast spells beyond a range of touch? (I've read the rules both way, so it might be up to your DM.)

I'll ask, but I suspect line of sight.

Generally, it's recommended to start as Arete 3 during char-gen if you can, since Arete is so expensive via xp.

I might. I had planned to save my points for a Sphere, but the ST is recommending at least a dot in Sanctum. If I do that, I don't have enough to buy a Sphere, but would have 5 more XP left over. With that, I could get Arete 3 and have 1 freebie point left. That would give me 1 dot in Node (which the ST also recommended).

Sphere-wise: I could recommend focusing on Life given what you want, due to its versatility (heal, damage, shapeshifting/body mod).

Life is going to be one of his primaries.

I always found Time 1 fairly useless. If you plan to scry into the past, check with your DM how he handles Paradox from someone in the past seeing you scrying (via Time 1 or some other sense) and thus you indirectly changing the past; my DM ruled that if that happened and they changed it enough (like killed some folk in retaliation), you'd likely die from backlash. I had a fellow player's PC die due to him scrying a Nephandus, and the Nephandus noticed and killed some people.

I'll ask.

[quote]With Spirit 3, you can make your own fetishes (spirits bound into things), but no need to get that high if your PC's granddaughter already has that power.[quote]

She can make a mechanical item, but can't put a spirit in it.

Spirit 2 is enough to summon spirit allies and be able to interact with spirits. By the earlier edition rules, I think Life 3/Spirit 2 would let you harm spirits. For that reason, I could see a focus on Life, then Spirit, then Prime and/or Time.

Thanks.

Library 5 and Resources 5 is really, really rich. You could probably drop both to 4 and be 'as good' in most practical terms. (Though I've not read the 20th Anniversary version, so maybe the extra dot matters more there.) But some thought if you want to put those points elsewhere.

I've been debating. I'll ask the ST about that. Given where he lives and that he has a household staff (that's the Retainer), I think Resources 5 may have to stay.

I finally got to look at Merits and Flaws

MERITS
Common Sense
Language (Dutch)
Language (Latin)
Language (Greek)

FLAWS
Curiosity (2)
Driving Goal (Learn Everything) 3
Echos (Scent of old parchment) 2

[JeenLeen]

A dot of Node sounds really nice. Sanctum, too, though I'd favor Node if you have to choose. Quintessence is very useful.

If you can cast at line-of-sight without Correspondence, I can see ignoring it. For a high-power game, it's pretty important for scry-and-die tactics (something mages are way better at than others) or escaping (always important), but it's not crucial.

Not related to your build, but just from reading your comments, I really want to get the anniversary rules. I'll probably never play oWoD again, but I really loved Mage 2nd edition, and I'd like to see rules incorporating some of these merits, flaws, and backgrounds.

[Mr Blobby]

Three things jump out at me.

1/ Have you considered making him an orphan technomancer? It's an option, after all...

2/ What I consider most important of all - *why* are they an orphan? Is it because they've simply not encountered any faction which they'd approve of, simply said 'nah, pass' to them or started with one but they left after a little bit? I think this part is important 'cos it is an active choice for the PC and says such about their mentality etc. After all, an anarchist would find Hermes hard to remain in, an atheist would scoff at the idea of 'the One' etc.

3/ Their avatar's Essence could have some bearing too, particularity if it's 3 or higher. Playing an old man with a strong Dynamic Avatar could have fun RP'ing opportunities; 'the mind wants to run and do this, but the body wants a cup of tea and a sit-down etc'.

JeenLeen - if you're interested in playing WoD again, the link in my sig might help you. *smiles*

[Kesnit]

1/ Have you considered making him an orphan technomancer? It's an option, after all...

I can't play a technomancer. My wife's PC is a Changling, and her PC lives with mine. Having a technomancer around all the time would really hurt a Changing because of the Banality.

2/ What I consider most important of all - *why* are they an orphan? Is it because they've simply not encountered any faction which they'd approve of, simply said 'nah, pass' to them or started with one but they left after a little bit?

IC, he's newly Awakened and has not encountered any factions yet. (I have played him in one game and he was heavily recruited by a Dreamspeaker.)

OOC, all the factions focus on a Sphere, and I plan to play him as a generalist.

[Mr Blobby]

A technomancer would generate less Banality than you'd originally think. After all, many practitioners are idealistic, powered by belief in the power of Science [and of themselves], following egocentric theories which make no real logical sense to others and daring to try to put their dreams of say flying cars and robots into actual reality.

Not all technomancers are into the wet sciences either; roving explorers, social scientists and UFOlogists etc also fit this mould.

Okay, not a match made in heaven, but they wouldn't be instantly toxic to each other [that's the Technocracy's job] - particularly if your Mage had a say Dynamic Avatar and a free-thinking nature/demeanour.

Though it does all depends on how your ST sees the whole Stasis-Banality-Weaver thing... I once played a WtA game where my Garou wasn't even allowed to keep a few books [like an atlas] for 'they were too Weavery'... *rolls eyes*

[LibraryOgre]

You know, a lot of the assumptions of Mage tend to argue against the Traditions having really strong populations. For me, the only people who'd really wind up joining a Tradition are those who were acolytes to someone of that tradition, steeped in its ways.... the average person Awakening outside a Tradition's guidance is going to have a mishmash of popular science, psychology, and pop metaphysics as to make aligning with an individual tradition rather difficult.

[Mr Blobby]

It all depends if you see a Tradition as a 'broad church' or 'narrow church'. What I can gather from the books, the vast majority of Mages don't fit their Tradition 100%, but perhaps 70% - 80%, which is perhaps enough. And within the Tradition there's enough different types, I would be surprised that with some of the more organised ones the newbie was shuffled around a bit until they found the place they fit best.

As for where they'd end up in, yeah, their original explanations and views would be a real mishmash of ideas - but I think for most there would be at least an overriding core, or failing that of personal belief - or even just a wish for that kind of thing to be true. And yes, popular culture plays it's part too; perhaps in the WoD the Order of Hermes is seeing an boom of young Awakened simply due to the cultural effect of Harry Potter? I remember reading in the Ether's book that they used to have some writing sci-fi books partly hoping that when folk Awakened, a few more would wake 'their way'.

All the while remembering that they'd be keeping their eyes/ears open for any possible new recruits, while the newbie's Avatar would be prodding them into learning more / find more of 'my kind' etc.

This part of the reason why Mage is so hard to play. You've gotta work out *why* they ended up where are in the first place.

[Kesnit]

A technomancer would generate less Banality than you'd originally think. After all, many practitioners are idealistic, powered by belief in the power of Science [and of themselves], following egocentric theories which make no real logical sense to others and daring to try to put their dreams of say flying cars and robots into actual reality.

Not all technomancers are into the wet sciences either; roving explorers, social scientists and UFOlogists etc also fit this mould.

Okay, not a match made in heaven, but they wouldn't be instantly toxic to each other [that's the Technocracy's job] - particularly if your Mage had a say Dynamic Avatar and a free-thinking nature/demeanour.

Though it does all depends on how your ST sees the whole Stasis-Banality-Weaver thing... I once played a WtA game where my Garou wasn't even allowed to keep a few books [like an atlas] for 'they were too Weavery'... *rolls eyes*

When I said I couldn't be a technomancer, I was thinking of the Technocracy. I wasn't thinking of a "mad scientist." A mad scientist would actually work with my wife's PC, as she is a Knocker. Something to think about, but I'm not sure about it. As I said, he's 70 years old and a book-nerd.

You know, a lot of the assumptions of Mage tend to argue against the Traditions having really strong populations. For me, the only people who'd really wind up joining a Tradition are those who were acolytes to someone of that tradition, steeped in its ways.... the average person Awakening outside a Tradition's guidance is going to have a mishmash of popular science, psychology, and pop metaphysics as to make aligning with an individual tradition rather difficult.

I feel the same way. The Traditions all seem really restrictive, even if they aren't as restrictive as they appear. Although if a PC is really into a specific Sphere, it would make sense for that person to seek out others who are also really into that same Sphere.

[Mr Blobby]

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting a Technocrat; they simply wouldn't fit hanging around with all those 'reality deviants'. I thought you were dismissing all technomancers en bloc. An Orphan technomancer is also an option which is perfectly reasonable but hardly gets any mention at all.