Villainous Competition, Or Optimize my BBEG!

[Gwachitallemall]

Welcome, everyone, to the first Installation of Optimize my BBEG!

This was brought about by a different thread, saying it would be a good idea to have one of these, so here we are!

The specific quote that brought us about:

Are they allowed to have shows that's not about building cars? Maybe warforged counts?

I was actually thinking more along the lines of "Pimp my ride" or "Queer eye...": "Tonight, our crack team of evil optimization experts meet their toughest challenge yet: a BBEG who just can't get it together!"
"Can the team help this aspiring overlord get back on track? Find out at 8!"

We're a little different than most of the optimization threads.

Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Secret Laboratory: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. We don’t want to make this too easy, do we?

Plotting Time: Contestants will have until 17:59 CST (23:59 GMT) Monday, February 9th to create their builds and PM them to the Supreme Chancellor, Gwachitallemall. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 17:59 CST (23:59 GMT) Monday, February 23rd to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Concept.

Concept will be how close the contestants stick to the contest’s concept, based on the judge’s discretion.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance: Level adjustment buyoff is allowed, but may be docked off Elegance based on the judge’s preference.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.

Spoiler

Show

Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
2nd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
3rd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
4th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
5th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
6th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
7th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
8th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
9th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
10th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
11th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
12th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
13th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
14th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
15th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
16th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
17th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
18th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
19th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities
20th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	Feats	New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Spoiler

Show

[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Speculation: Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the “reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

Concept for this 1st Contest is:
Warlord, Leader of Armies!
For this one, keep your BAB as high as possible! Classes that get 9th level spells are disallowed. This includes 9th level manifesting as well.
This is the Warlord of a horde of warriors, who marches in with his superior forces and tactics, and conquers all.
Leadership is banned for sanity reasons, otherwise it would be perfect for this contest. If you want to, assume that you have an army to lead. You must be deserving of it.
To Clarify:
No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog (Such as Thrallherd) has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable mention will go to the Supreme Chancellor’s favourite build.

Begin your evil plotting.

For this first contest, we'll be going by ECL, not CR. So look for ECL 5, 10, 15, 20 as your building points.

Tips for submitting your entry, provided by Weaselguy:

- Use capitalization and punctuation, correctly.
- Make good use of Spoilers, for cleanliness.
- Don't forget your sources. If it's something that can be found in the contents section, then book title seems to be fine. Obscure stuff, may want to include page number too.
- DeviantArt has about 9 billion pictures that you can reference, I can almost guarantee you can find one there to fit your character.
- Make good use of tables. In addition to the Build table and the Spells table, I like doing on e for my Ability Scores, just to keep it neat.
- Do a build stub at the top of your Build Table, something like Wizard 2/Fighter 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 10

[LooseCannoneer]

Is 9th level manifesting allowed?

[Karl Aegis]

Are we supposed to be finding a relationship between conquering and BAB in this contest? There doesn't seem to be any obvious relationship between the two.

[Gwachitallemall]

Is 9th level manifesting allowed? Or is that seen as the equivalent of 9th level spellcasting?

Disallowed. I will edit the original post to include this.

Am I allowed to use classes that can get 9th level spellcasting as long as I don't advance high enough in that class to get 9th level spells?

You may, but judges are free to score this at their discretion.

[Gwachitallemall]

Are we supposed to be finding a relationship between conquering and BAB in this contest? There doesn't seem to be any obvious relationship between the two.

The idea is to be a good warrior, as well as a leader. Perhaps in a future competition we'll have a leader who is not a warrior.

The idea is to take a specific villainous concept (In this case, Warlord of Armies, like Cluny the Scourge.) And Optimize it.

[LooseCannoneer]

Okay, one last clarifying question: Is Thrallherd legal?

[Gwachitallemall]

Okay, one last clarifying question: Is Thrallherd legal?

I'm adopting the Iron Chef's Stance on this:

No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog (Such as Thrallherd) has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

[Red Fel]

A villain competition? I'll be the judge of that!

... Or one of, anyways. I can't help but feel that this falls somewhat within my area of expertise.

[Elricaltovilla]

I gotta ask for some consideration for those of us who play Pathfinder. I won't even use PoW if you don't want me to (Just going Warlord 20 would be too easy anyway ) although it does make things easier.

[Gwachitallemall]

I gotta ask for some consideration for those of us who play Pathfinder. I won't even use PoW if you don't want me to (Just going Warlord 20 would be too easy anyway ) although it does make things easier.

I don't really know anything about Pathfinder other than the basics (It's like D&D 3.75). I'm not comfortable being the Supreme Chancellor of a Villainous Competition using subject matter I'm not familiar with, sorry.

[Vhaidara]

Personally, I feel that having Leadership or a copycat ability should be required for this particular competition.

Also, this looks like it should be interesting.

[Gwachitallemall]

Personally, I feel that having Leadership or a copycat ability should be required for this particular competition.

Also, this looks like it should be interesting.

It's been a debate of mine. I don't want anyones Sanity to implode, but it's really up the judges.. After all they're going to be the ones having to judge all of those builds the players have written. Really, in your secret lab, we should just be judging your piece d' resistance, not the bunch of little minions you have running around. While the minions themselves are a pretty spectacular feat of engineering, we want to know how you built the rocket to steal the moon.

[Troacctid]

I'd say Leadership goes the way of magic items: it's assumed that your minions are cool, and you can leave out the details.

[Vhaidara]

It's been a debate of mine. I don't want anyones Sanity to implode, but it's really up the judges.. After all they're going to be the ones having to judge all of those builds the players have written. Really, in your secret lab, we should just be judging your piece d' resistance, not the bunch of little minions you have running around. While the minions themselves are a pretty spectacular feat of engineering, we want to know how you built the rocket to steal the moon.

Oh, I didn't mean fully stat out all the followers, or even the cohort. But you should have room for the feat that gets you your army.

[Svata]

Soulmelds, allowed or nay?

[Gwachitallemall]

Oh, I didn't mean fully stat out all the followers, or even the cohort. But you should have room for the feat that gets you your army.

We could go with that. Or it could be implied, like in my original post, that you already have your army, and have no need of a feat that will get you one. You are the BBEG. You are not a player character, you have been given your abilities by the DM, not a player. You just follow the rules of a player character except for where you have an army.

Soulmelds, allowed or nay?

I don't see any reason why not.. Let me get back to you on this one tomorrow after I've slept on it. Optimistic yes, for now.
Edit: Thinking about it, yeah, I'll allow soulmelds.

[LooseCannoneer]

I think contestants should have to describe their army and what it is, as that offers a lot of flavor to the submitted villain.

[Red Fel]

We could go with that. Or it could be implied, like in my original post, that you already have your army, and have no need of a feat that will get you one. You are the BBEG. You are not a player character, you have been given your abilities by the DM, not a player. You just follow the rules of a player character except for where you have an army.

Admittedly, I think that requires a somewhat heavier emphasis on style and usage. As the DM, you're free to make a big bag of stats, and if this is going to be a BBEG, you probably should. NPCs don't require things like Leadership to gain minions; they have them almost by default, as the plot requires. In my mind, it's not just the stats and mechanics themselves, but what you do with them, and how, which makes the difference between a random encounter and a memorable boss battle.

I, for one, want to see just how memorable these things can be. For example, I have absolute confidence that people here can make awesome and intimidating melee combatants. But what does your BBEG do outside of combat? Does he have an entertaining or impressive backstory? A theme song? A sense of style? If he has minions, what's the morale among them?

I don't expect this to be like any other Iron Chef. Yes, I hope to see some excellent, clever, and solid builds; that goes without saying. But I want to see something more than that; I want to see thematics, and flair, and style! Egads, we need more villains with style! Be clever and manipulative, be brutal and cruel, be sneaky and deceptive, be freezing cold or burning hot, but give me something more than just some combat rolls!

Come on, kids. Get on with your bad selves.

[Vhaidara]

Red Fel, you know who else would be perfect for your avatar? Megamind. Because it's all about Presentation!

[Gwachitallemall]

You know.. I had a response,, but Red Fel just said it so much more eloquently than I could.

So yes, Army is good thing, you don't need the feat leadership to dictate that, instead, use the style of your army, write descriptions, maybe they carry you in on a throne of skulls (Sorry if I'm using anyone's idea) and chant "Khorne! Khorne! Khorne! Blood for the Blood God!"

Cause you know, Khorne has the most style.

[AvatarVecna]

Just to clarify, is it more important that our build have full BAB and leader abilities, or that they be a capable combatant with leadership abilities?

EDIT: Also, what's the limit on entries per contestant?

[LooseCannoneer]

I feel that we need some restrictions on wealth. Would it be traditional WBL, or is it anything goes?

And what are the levels of the follower army, are they as granted by Leadership, or are they more than that? How many are there and what levels are they?

[WeaselGuy]

It seems I was beat to the punch, but I feel like this too is an occasion for people to have leadership, in the same vein as "you have a bunch of followers and a cohort or two, but we don't need the stats for them". It opens up a particular PrC that I was planning on using for my entry, but, as the case may be, I feel I can probably develop something without that specific PrC... I plan on entering Iron Chef this cycle too, so if I finish that one in time, I may enter this one too, otherwise I'll judge this one.

[Svata]

Decisions, Decisions. Do I want [REDACTED] or [CLASSIFIED] more? If I go with [REDACTED] I get an extra [SCRUBBED], and +1 to my [LOLNO], but on the other hand, [CLASSIFIED] gets me an extra [HIDDEN], which I already get less of than [SCRUBBED]. Hmmm...

[Sam K]

As the "inventor" of this idea, I want to fully endorse putting more focus on style than the other optimization contests (while still retaining a standard of optimization that makes the laws of physics cry, obviously). After all, BBEGs get relatively little combat time compared to PCs, so being a memorable character requires more than just being able to cause a TPK.

[LooseCannoneer]

No, seriously, what is the wealth limit? Do you want us giving all of our melee minions +5 Vorpal Swords? Do you want us buying everything we could ever want?

[AvatarVecna]

No, seriously, what is the wealth limit? Do you want us giving all of our melee minions +5 Vorpal Swords? Do you want us buying everything we could ever want?

If this works anything like the Iron Chef competition the OP copy-pasta'd, then standard WBL is assumed, but we shouldn't mention specific items unless they're particularly integral to the build (ex: if a build focuses around the interaction between a couple if feats, a class feature, and a particular weapon enchantment, it will be assumed that you have a weapon with said enchantment, especially if the build is pretty crappy without it).

EDIT 1:

Note to self: in the future, keep the contest's premise in mind, and don't even bother picking up BoED.

EDIT 2:

BoEF, on the other hand...

[WhamBamSam]

Well, I have an idea for this which I'm pretty sure will be distinct from the pack. We'll see if I have time to write it up.

[Gwachitallemall]

Man, go to sleep and the thread blows up. Let me see if I can respond to the important queries..

WBL is assumed standard, but don't use it, as it's not really about the wealth. If you want to expand on how most of your wealth was spent equipping your army, that's fine, but it's not really a judging point.

Style is preferred.

As far as leadership, again.. You can consider that you have the feat, but please for the love of all that's unholy don't make the followers/cohorts.

The level of the army is as granted by leadership, but that's all that needs to be said there.

As for leader with capabilities. You're a warlord. You should be able to fight your own battles, some times you get duels and have to fight them. It's important to have both leadership abilties, and combat abilities. Also, you need to be able to do something outside of combat as well.

Limit on entries per contestant.. As many as you want to make. If this bites me this time, I'll cut it back next time, but I don't think on this first attempt there will be that many people wanting to do this, I may be wrong however. If we get too many, I can always extend the judges time.

[Scorponok]

I approve of this and happy that a topic I created led to this exercise.

Please post all of them when the contest ends.