Person_Man’s 5E Rogue Guide

[RulesJD]

And has been for well over a decade, coming up on two soon enough.
But you know, I'm wrong, and obviously calling it a Paladorc all of a freaking sudden makes more sense, even though that name invokes an incorrect mental image of an half orc Paladin.

I just find it both funny and sad that when I used the exact same terminology on him that he used on someone else, he got all butt hurt about it.
Even funnier that he doesn't even know *who* he said was wrong in the first place.

Actually, just thought of something.

Sorcadin = Paladin 2/Sorc 18 (primarily Sorcerer with some ability to hit hard once)

Paladorc = Paladin 6(7)/Sorc 14(13) (primarily Paladin with added utility of Sorc)

Paladorclock = Paladin 6/Warlock 3/Sorc 11 (my own personal favorite)

[Afrodactyl]

-snipped for post length-

Starting fighter for the heavy armour and shield was very much the plan haha. I'm also debating defense or duelling for the fighting style. I was planning on rolling with a half orc, but I definitely won't disregard the variant human for starting with shieldmaster.

Thanks for the input!

-EDIT-

Going to go with variant human fighter for shield master, with soldier as the background. Starting with Intimidation, Athletics, Insight, Survival and Perception, and picking up Deception and thieves tools when I get Rogue levels.

[odigity]

Person_Man, are you sure your Rogue Guide contains all the tips from your awesome Rogue tactics post? (The one you made before this guide.)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...86&postcount=8

[R.Shackleford]

Starting fighter for the heavy armour and shield was very much the plan haha. I'm also debating defense or duelling for the fighting style. I was planning on rolling with a half orc, but I definitely won't disregard the variant human for starting with shieldmaster.

Thanks for the input!

-EDIT-

Going to go with variant human fighter for shield master, with soldier as the background. Starting with Intimidation, Athletics, Insight, Survival and Perception, and picking up Deception and thieves tools when I get Rogue levels.

Why would you Multiclass?

Vuman Rogue (Strogue) with moderately armored at 1 and shield master at 4 (levels 1 - 3 fly by) makes it where you never really need an ASI and can just take feats (or boost Con).

Medium Armor + Shield + 2 dex = 18 AC (good enough for levels 1 - 10).

Rapier (I prefer dagger) and shield works wonders.

[SharkForce]

Why would you Multiclass?

Vuman Rogue (Strogue) with moderately armored at 1 and shield master at 4 (levels 1 - 3 fly by) makes it where you never really need an ASI and can just take feats (or boost Con).

Medium Armor + Shield + 2 dex = 18 AC (good enough for levels 1 - 10).

Rapier (I prefer dagger) and shield works wonders.

i think you would multiclass mostly because fighter 1-3 are all really strong anyways. i mean, you don't *have* to multiclass, but a fighting style + minor heal at level 1, action surge at level 2 (an extra chance at sneak attack, or make an attack and then ready to attack on another turn after hiding with a bonus action for advantage), archetype at 3 (battlemaster is great, with options for off-turn attacks and ways to make an attack hit that would have otherwise missed, but you could go EK or champion if you prefer).

but yeah, there is no real *need* to multiclass to fighter. but it really is a pretty good choice to do so, whether you're going strogue or not.

[AmayaElls]

So I was just wondering since all the good stuff is gotten by lvl 7 how do people feel about multiclassing into Trickery cleric?

I like the way the Channel Divinity can give advantage, and offers a number of spells that will help you be a rogue. (Also Flavour-wise this is going to be a cleric of Mask)

[dropbear8mybaby]

This guide is a perfect example of why I hate guides.

[Theodoxus]

Saladinadorapal... whatever.

Everyone knows, Fey Knights rule, Sorcadins drool.

Paladin, Oath of the Ancients, Fey Pack Warlock trumps all. You get a Force Bow before Force Bows were cool, and use your prodigious Charisma instead of Dexterity to boot! It's the best Switchhitter in the game, better than a PF ranger even. Best of all, you're not sacrificing paladin levels for silly sorcerer levels. 2 levels of Warlock is all you'll ever need - though feel free to grab a third (or fourth if you really need that ASI) and never look back.

[AmayaElls]

This guide is a perfect example of why I hate guides.

I'm curious, exactly what are your critiques of this guide? I am curious as to what your issue is with it (and ones like it) and how your opinion differs.

[dropbear8mybaby]

I'm curious, exactly what are your critiques of this guide? I am curious as to what your issue is with it (and ones like it) and how your opinion differs.

They all end up being far too subjective and showcasing the writer's personal biases but because they're popular and the people who write them gather credibility for their opinions, they get used at the table to the detriment of the player and the group.

In other words, they serve a counter-productive effect to their intended purpose because the writers aren't very good at evaluating the system or presenting their opinions in an objective manner.

[AmayaElls]

They all end up being far too subjective and showcasing the writer's personal biases but because they're popular and the people who write them gather credibility for their opinions, they get used at the table to the detriment of the player and the group.

In other words, they serve a counter-productive effect to their intended purpose because the writers aren't very good at evaluating the system or presenting their opinions in an objective manner.

Personally I feel that all guides are somewhat subjective and expect that. I dislike the ones that pretend to be fully objective. This poster I feel does not do that; he frequently uses phrases such as "In my experience", "I would do..." and other such qualifiers. He also explains his reasonings quite well I believe.

I have always taken guides with a grain of salt. I am a new player and I do come to these to get a feel for what the class might be like, however I don't ever use it to limit myself. I read a bard guide and then made a bard with her second highest stat as intelligence, not dumping it as the guide suggested, my warlock was going to use a longbow and a few people on the cleric guides thought I was taking way too many levels into thief. The books don't necessarily tell me how the abilities, spells and other factors tend to work in games, the guides however give me a little insight into how it works for some people.

[R.Shackleford]

They all end up being far too subjective and showcasing the writer's personal biases but because they're popular and the people who write them gather credibility for their opinions, they get used at the table to the detriment of the player and the group.

In other words, they serve a counter-productive effect to their intended purpose because the writers aren't very good at evaluating the system or presenting their opinions in an objective manner.

Sooo...

Your argument against guides is in your very subjective view, the guides are too subjective.

I just watched Cinema Sins so I'm going to have to sin you for subjective-ception.

[SharkForce]

there is good stuff in rogue beyond level 7. at level 11, you never roll badly on ability checks. disadvantage on them becomes completely meaningless, because no matter how badly you roll, you didn't roll badly. at level 15, you get a bonus save proficiency. at level 20, you get the capstone, which i've seen badmouthed but is actually quite good (it may as well read "once per short rest, whatever you're doing it works"). not to mention archetype abilities. assassin isn't great for the most part, but AT and thief from the core book have some amazing stuff. and of course, the whole way through your sneak attack damage increases.

this is not to say that leaving rogue at level 7 is a terrible idea by any means. if you want something else, go for it. plenty of classes synergise well with rogue. but i wouldn't say that there's nothing good after level 7.

[Sigreid]

They all end up being far too subjective and showcasing the writer's personal biases but because they're popular and the people who write them gather credibility for their opinions, they get used at the table to the detriment of the player and the group.

In other words, they serve a counter-productive effect to their intended purpose because the writers aren't very good at evaluating the system or presenting their opinions in an objective manner.

What you say can be true if they are looked at as a hard and fast map to perfection. I read guides because whether I agree with a given guide on any given point or not, they are good for pointing out things I'd overlooked, abilities and skills I should perhaps reconsider, and sometimes tactics that I hadn't thought of. All of which are simply used as data points in forming my own opinion.

[odigity]

This guide is a perfect example of why I hate guides.

I have but one question:

Would you rather live in a world *without* "Treantmonk’s Guide to Wizards, Being a god"?

[dropbear8mybaby]

I have but one question:

Would you rather live in a world *without* "Treantmonk’s Guide to Wizards, Being a god"?

Absolutely.

[twigg89]

Why would you Multiclass?

Vuman Rogue (Strogue) with moderately armored at 1 and shield master at 4 (levels 1 - 3 fly by) makes it where you never really need an ASI and can just take feats (or boost Con).

Medium Armor + Shield + 2 dex = 18 AC (good enough for levels 1 - 10).

Rapier (I prefer dagger) and shield works wonders.

I'm pretty new to DnD and this build sounds interesting, would you mind explaining how it works?

[SharkForce]

I'm pretty new to DnD and this build sounds interesting, would you mind explaining how it works?

you're a rogue with lots of strength. use a finesse weapon and, whether you attack with dexterity or not (finesse weapons allow but don't require you to use dexterity) you can get your sneak attack damage. expertise in athletics means that you have the modifier to knock down pretty much anything reliably, which means you can get advantage on your attacks against that thing. advantage on your attacks means you probably don't really have an urgent need for the highest attack bonus you could possibly get (though it's not a bad thing to have higher attack bonus either, of course), so you can choose to spend your ASIs elsewhere if you want.

personally, i prefer a few fighter levels mixed in, but YMMV.

[Mandragola]

Personally I'd start off a shield mastery character as a vuman fighter. That way you get to rock up at level 1 with heavy armour on, a shield, and the feat. Then go to at least level 5 fighter, picking up battlemaster moves on the way. Specifically you want riposte, for that awesome reaction sneak attack.

After 5 (or possibly 6 for the ASI, though it's not a very MAD build) you switch to rogue. Expertise in athletics and sneak attack all the way. Swashbuckler is probably the way I'd play it, since they are very good at getting sneak attacks. Starting stats 16, 14, 14, 10, 12, 8.

It's basically a really dirty fighter. He knocks people over, threatens them, throws daggers and dodges around the place. Eventually you might want to go something like fighter 11/rogue 9 I think, though really any build with about 5 levels in each has merit.

Sounds fun to play I think.