League of Legends LXIII: You Spoony Bard!

[TechnOkami]

Skarner likes it, but Skarner also likes a straight-up Tri-force.

I'm still finagling with Cinderhulk on him that eventually leads into Tri-force as his capstone item.

So build path would be something like... Machete -> Purple Jungling Item -> Boots -> Cinderhulk -> Warmogs/Riteous Glory -> Tanky Resistance Item As Appropriate -> Maybe Sheen -> Second Tanky Resistance Item As Appropriate -> Tri-force.

Does that sound absurd or is that a plausible build path?

[Ivellius]

Getting close to needing a new thread. Do we honor ASoIaF again or the River King?

[Recaiden]

Getting close to needing a new thread. Do we honor ASoIaF again or the River King?

League of Legends LXIV: A Song of Loss and Ire - (Whatever we me up with for A Dream of Spring)

Skarner likes it, but Skarner also likes a straight-up Tri-force.

I'm still finagling with Cinderhulk on him that eventually leads into Tri-force as his capstone item.

So build path would be something like... Machete -> Purple Jungling Item -> Boots -> Cinderhulk -> Warmogs/Riteous Glory -> Tanky Resistance Item As Appropriate -> Maybe Sheen -> Second Tanky Resistance Item As Appropriate -> Tri-force.

Does that sound absurd or is that a plausible build path?

Why are you getting purple jungle? His clear and sustain is fine; blue or red smite are much preferred. Earlier Triforce, earlier resist item I'd say. That build is just painfully tanky.

[mrcarter11]

Got my Pool Party Mystery champ today. Was Cassiopia. Not bad, but I was hoping for Gnar or Diana.

Now, if I could just connect to a game to actually play her...

Did they ever say when they expected to have all the mystery champions handed out?

[Recaiden]

Did they ever say when they expected to have all the mystery champions handed out?

17:00 PST today.

[Ivellius]

League of Legends LXIV: A Song of Loss and Ire - (Whatever we me up with for A Dream of Spring)

I can't remember at all what was discussed, so how about, "A Stream of the River King"?

[Landis963]

I can't remember at all what was discussed, so how about, "A Stream of the River King"?

Streamline it: "A Song of Loss and Ire: The Stream of The King."

EDIT: What are we going to do 100 pages from now, I wonder? When our ability to nitpick an unrelated videogame outstrips GRRM's ability to write bloated epics?

[Manticoran]

Why, we start riffing on A Wheel of Time! OBVIOUSLY! xD

[Qwertystop]

Why, we start riffing on A Wheel of Time! OBVIOUSLY! xD

I fully support this idea.

[Siosilvar]

Skarner likes it, but Skarner also likes a straight-up Tri-force.

I'm still finagling with Cinderhulk on him that eventually leads into Tri-force as his capstone item.

So build path would be something like... Machete -> Purple Jungling Item -> Boots -> Cinderhulk -> Warmogs/Riteous Glory -> Tanky Resistance Item As Appropriate -> Maybe Sheen -> Second Tanky Resistance Item As Appropriate -> Tri-force.

Does that sound absurd or is that a plausible build path?

As previously mentioned...

Merc Treads | Cinderhulk | Triforce | Righteous Glory | Frozen Heart | <defensive item>.
Machete -> Sheen -> Boots 1 -> whatever. Generally Glory+Cinderhulk first, FH+Triforce next. All the FH/Tri components are pretty good to buy and sit on for awhile, except Zeal. Last defensive item is generally Randuin's or Banshee's, but Thornmail has a place.

Triforce really, really sucks if you're trying to build it as your last item. None of the components are more than like 35% of the cost, so you have to have two slots open, and the power spike is best early-mid game anyway. By the time you have four tank items, there's really no point in diverting and picking up a damage item.

[Swiss Voulge]

As previously mentioned...

Merc Treads | Cinderhulk | Triforce | Righteous Glory | Frozen Heart | <defensive item>.
Machete -> Sheen -> Boots 1 -> whatever. Generally Glory+Cinderhulk first, FH+Triforce next. All the FH/Tri components are pretty good to buy and sit on for awhile, except Zeal. Last defensive item is generally Randuin's or Banshee's, but Thornmail has a place.

I'm really not too good at the game, but I usually do:
Machete+hp pots -> Cinderhulk -> Mobis(Furor eventually) -> Triforce ->Righteous Glory ->More tank
For my tank items, i go between warmog's, randuin's, and spirit visage. My mana has never been a huge problem, so I would go for the boosted HP(nice with cinderhulk % scaling) from Randuin's instead of the mana from Frozen Heart. If I'm stupidly fed I might get a rylai's or frozen mallet (instead of the strictly tank items) for the sticky giggles, but usually not.

[Siosilvar]

-more skarner builds-

If you have Triforce and Skarner's Q you already have godlike stickiness and damage. Unless, of course, you build Mobis and screw over your ability to dive the enemy (because all it takes is a spare skillshot to nuke all your speed, because you're relying on %boosts until you actually get to melee range) in exchange for better map mobility. Which is a valid choice if you're just gonna end up peeling anyway, but it's something to keep in mind. Mercs are the better general choice, though they're a bit more expensive.

Frozen Heart is for the 20% CDR which is an amazing stat on a tank, plus Cinderhulk scales your effective HP† so resists are still super important. The mana is just icing on the attack-speed-reducing cake. edit: And not only that, but the less resists you have, the faster your shield goes away and the faster your speed goes away.

Warmog's sucks if you already have Righteous Glory. You want only one of the two, because HP with no resists to back it up makes you squishier than you look, even before the enemy team starts buying BoRKs. X * Y (health * resists) increases way faster by boosting X and Y by a medium amount than by boosting X up a lot. Hell, with Skarner's shield and base stats, his best build is probably Cinderhulk+Glory+Triforce for HP and Mercs+Heart+Zz'rot for resists, unless you find the Randuin's or Banshee's effects necessary.

Spirit Visage isn't worth building over Banshee's unless 10% CDR is really important to you (hint: it is ), at which point you should build Heart+Banshee's instead of Randuin's+Visage. Or you could build Heart+Visage but you don't get any value from the Visage passive, so it's still questionable.


† Every single HP boost or shield scales with resists. All adding %HP scaling to it is make it scale with health as well, which means it scales off of effective health. Optimizing for health over resists is a trap, unless you have a flat resist steroid (Jax, Shyvana, Wukong) or really good health-to-damage (Volibear).

[RoyVG]

I said it reinvigorated it, I never said it was good.

I can only speak from one game in which I had this against me, but after Runeglaive and Ludens Echo this guy was just too obnoxious. Luden's isn't supposed to work on On-hit spells like Mystic shot, but Runeglaive made it work, and that is where it got a little bit out of hand. On the PBE they are taking the part out where Runeglaive interacted with Ludens, which I think is good (they call it a bugfix?), it made AP Ez a bit too safe.

It was a bit ago, but this game made me feel so... dirty. I felt really bad for the Hecarim losing this bad.

[Ashen Lilies]

It's pretty strong when it gets to late game, but not necessarily better, I think, than mid Varus, mid AD Ezreal, or AP Kog'Maw in terms of what it actually does. And there's a significant ramp-up time to that: Runeglaive isn't really good on its own, you need that AND Luden's to start being effective, plus the 700g detour for a tear, which is a pretty late power spike, compared to the much faster power spike of the other three picks, and you have an absolutely abysmal laning phase, since AP Ez sucks against minions before he hits that 2.5 item spike.

[Artanis]

Last night saw possibly the most epic game I have ever experienced in League of Legends. They had a 14K gold lead at two different points, they got three Barons (two of which also included 5th Dragons), and they had two players at full build at the 38 minute mark. But they teamfought juuuust badly enough that they couldn't quite finish us off, and we eventually outscaled and outfought them, getting the final 14 kills and 5 towers. Our first Dragon - at 56 minutes - ultimately won us the game, as it finally gave us the +% damage while also denying them yet another 5th Dragon, thereby turning what would have been a doomed last stand into a 4-for-0 rout that opened the door for us to win

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegen...1?tab=overview

[9mm]

It's reinvigorated AP Ezreal mid.

Not sure about the junglers, though.

At this point Runglaive is solidly a case in point for litch bane being undertuned as nid is pretty much the only jungler that is immediately better and everyoune else is taking smite and going mid.

[Ashen Lilies]

yeah, pretty much.

I'd like to see Lich Bane do the whole 'convert everything to magic damage' that Poppy Q, Viktor Q and now Runeglaive do, actually.

I do enjoy the Runeglaive mids. It seems quite strong, possibly even OP, but not completely broken or overbearing.

Spoiler

Show

Even in the best showing of AP Ez we had in LCS, Fnatic were able to eventually brute force their way past it (because lol Fnatic are gods). Also it's possible to play around it or build your comp against it, as Gravity demonstrated today.

I want to try this Runeglaive -> Shiv -> Luden's -> IE Gangplank build I hear mentioned before it gets patched out. I can't tell whether it sounds stupidly awesome, or awesomely stupid.

[Godskook]

At this point Runglaive is solidly a case in point for litch bane being undertuned as nid is pretty much the only jungler that is immediately better and everyoune else is taking smite and going mid.

Who's "everyone else" besides a very "off-build" mage who's exact weakness is something Runeglaive fixes but Lich Bane does not? Ezreal is, afaik, the only notable Runeglaive-mid atm, and the only ones I've heard theorycrafted(Gangplank and Nasus) have similar flukes in their kit design that Runeglaive "fixes".

[Ashen Lilies]

Runeglaive Diana mid has been a thing that has been happening.

[mrcarter11]

I've seen a couple Runeglaive Akali streams, but I think only two users have actually appeared in competitive play.

[Siosilvar]

I want to try this Runeglaive -> Shiv -> Luden's -> IE Gangplank build I hear mentioned before it gets patched out. I can't tell whether it sounds stupidly awesome, or awesomely stupid.

I've been playing some Gangplank games to try and build this, but I haven't been able to get any to last long enough for both Runeglaive and IE to come online matchmaking pls, gimme something that isn't ridiculously one-sided

[zabbarot]

I've been playing some Gangplank games to try and build this, but I haven't been able to get any to last long enough for both Runeglaive and IE to come online matchmaking pls, gimme something that isn't ridiculously one-sided

I've succeeded. It doesn't do anything more than exactly what you're expect from critplank, but magic. So you'll face lower resists than you usually do, and might manage to push the damage a little higher. And the side benefit of getting magic pen for your ult as well, but since you're not really getting any AP the differences to you other skills are minimal.

tl;dr you hit a little harder because people don't get MR.

[Ashen Lilies]

Yeah that. It's full damage critplank, with a better heal and ult, but not as good ult and heal as full AP plank (but better Q). Also the crit means you can do still do damage in between Qs, though you're still super squishy. The game I played it, I snowballed super early due to good roams and ults in other lanes, hit full build at 34 minutes, oneshot some person with a crit once, then spent the entire rest of the game getting blown to pieces by their Ezreal.

[Olinser]

Who's "everyone else" besides a very "off-build" mage who's exact weakness is something Runeglaive fixes but Lich Bane does not? Ezreal is, afaik, the only notable Runeglaive-mid atm, and the only ones I've heard theorycrafted(Gangplank and Nasus) have similar flukes in their kit design that Runeglaive "fixes".

Diana, Akali, Ezrael, Ekko, Fizz, Nidalee (that's mid Nidalee with smite) and Twisted Fate are all doing it somewhat regularly, in addition to the AP Gangplank that's been cropping up occasionally.

Quite simply, because Runeglaive is an AOE rather than a single target, it deals more overall damage if you're hitting at least 2 people (and SIGNIFICANTLY more if you're hitting 3 or 4).

Add that on to the Dragon/Baron steal opportunities with double smite, and the extra peel/chase you can get with Chilling Smite, and I actually haven't seen anybody build basic Lichbane since the patch.

[Godskook]

Diana, Akali, Ezrael, Ekko, Fizz, Nidalee (that's mid Nidalee with smite) and Twisted Fate are all doing it somewhat regularly, in addition to the AP Gangplank that's been cropping up occasionally.

The metrics I have available to confirm this(mostly Champion.gg) suggest that Twisted Fate and Akali are not doing this regularly, and are instead preferring normal laner options. Honestly, Akali doesn't even seem to need Sheen enough to care which sheen option is best.

As best I can tell of Nidalee, Ekko and Diana aren't picking it up in lane, but with since they're junglers, its really hard to tell how much overlap between lane-smite and jungle there is in the stats. If you assume that Champion.gg is accurately differentiating between junglers and laners(let's assume 90% accuracy), then none of them are going lane-smite either, but assumptions are assumptions and all that.

Fizz is all over the place on Champion.gg and Probuilds, can't tell what's commonplace for him, but given that he has been building Trinity Force and various other things, I don't think he's particularly caring about Runeglaive.

Quite simply, because Runeglaive is an AOE rather than a single target, it deals more overall damage if you're hitting at least 2 people (and SIGNIFICANTLY more if you're hitting 3 or 4).

And quite simply, outside Ezreal, Nasus and Gangplank, the lineup of champions being listed as being runeglaive champions don't seem to generally be buying Runeglaive in lane, and imho, don't seem to be good candidates for it either. Runeglaive has a few advantages to Lich Bane, but those advantages aren't ones these guys are wanting. It converts physical damage to magic, and only Ezreal/Gangplank/Nasus really care about that. It has a minor AoE(size), but these guys are assassins, and you're asking them to forfeit burst for AoE, and I don't think Akali, Diana, Ekko, Fizz, Nidalee or Twisted Fate want that trade; the tradeoff is comparable to Fist versus Triforce, and from what I've seen, you almost never see people leveraging Fist for its AoE damage properties in a teamfight(I've heard Laudandus do it to farm as GP). It trades MS for CDR, but for AP mids, CDR is *WAY* easier to come by than MS, so I really doubt that's a net-benefit for them, especially when it probably doesn't change if they're buying Morello's or not.

Ezreal is really really unique in that Runeglaive actually fixes weaknesses he has. He's a ****ty all-in-er as a mage, but he lacks kit-waveclear. This combination means he was 100% reliant on Q for clearing before once the enemy could 1v1 him. Now, Runeglaive lets him put down some AoE waveclear pressure without Fist's lack of scaling. Inherently, his kit had a super awkward skill-order because he wanted Q for farming but W was his actual threat spell. Now, he's free to max Q first, smoothing his skill order. Finally, purple smite lets him eat raptors easily since he gets bullied by most mids up until he's got Runeglaive+Luden's.

Add that on to the Dragon/Baron steal opportunities with double smite, and the extra peel/chase you can get with Chilling Smite

Near as I can tell from what I've seen midzreal wants purple smite most but builds red smite most.

I actually haven't seen anybody build basic Lichbane since the patch.

The hell? In the past 20 games you have listed on na.op.gg, you've seen *5* Lichbanes, 1 Sheen-ignite Akali and only one verified lane-Runeglaive(19 games have only 1 smite per team who looks like a jungler), and that was Ezreal. That's 0-6 on people outside Ezreal going for Runeglaive in your games. Maybe you're seeing Runeglaive elsewhere, but it couldn't possibly be common enough that you could reasonably say "haven't seen anybody".

[Ashen Lilies]

My comment about runeglaive mid Diana being a thing this patch is based purely off the two or three times it appeared in LCS this weekend.

For what it's worth, the Twisted Fates that appeared built Lichbane

[lord_khaine]

Ahh.. its amasing how easily you can fit people on top of a dragon with a point and click slow
Shyvana goes though the jungle like a brushfire, and a stalkers blade covers her biggest weakness.

Else, for threat title i suggest starting on Wheel of Time now, with Eye of Vel'Koz

And on a side note, what is it Runeglaive does for Nasus that is not covered by sheen?

[ex cathedra]

And on a side note, what is it Runeglaive does for Nasus that is not covered by sheen?

adds AoE, converts physical to magical damage, everything else that's written in the item description

[Godskook]

And on a side note, what is it Runeglaive does for Nasus that is not covered by sheen?

Primarily makes his Q magic damage, which means AP-ish Nasus is more functionally 1 damage type. Not sure how actually viable it is, but apparently Keane is practicing it a lot.

[Olinser]

Ahh.. its amasing how easily you can fit people on top of a dragon with a point and click slow
Shyvana goes though the jungle like a brushfire, and a stalkers blade covers her biggest weakness.

Else, for threat title i suggest starting on Wheel of Time now, with Eye of Vel'Koz

And on a side note, what is it Runeglaive does for Nasus that is not covered by sheen?

It converts his Q to 100% magic damage rather than physical. In most games people tend to build less MR than armor, and if you actually stack void staff/pen boots/Abyssal its pretty much guaranteed that Magic Q will do significantly more damage than Physical Q. (Side negative - since it is magic damage Nasus DOES NOT lifesteal off it, so if you intend on sustaining you need Spell Vamp).