Puzzle and Dragons 11: Romancing the Stone

[SiuiS]

Why waste your time with red chaser when Guan Yinping does the exact same thing but let's you bring healers?

Guan Yinping bookends, Two echidna, one Gigas and one red chaser? Quadruple health, healer RCV, two fire enhance actives, two orb creation actives (warning: red chaser skill ups is gonna be balls) and two long-period delays.

The problem is that if you stick to type you get hosed on Attack (4x? Really?), and if you stick to color you get hosed on HP. Best bet is one double hp/Attack lead and one tripe Attack lead, both of which affect primarily fire, and physical.

Chibi chiyome would work.


But yes. Easy way out? Robin.
Well, "easy".

[Otravyat]

Well that was fun in Challenge Descendeds. I just managed to spend 75 turns on the boss floor in Thoth and Sopdet because of some flukey binds (SO MANY LEADER BINDS), no skyfalls to complete combo, and general sloppiness. I managed to be so careless as to whittle them down below 20% and died. I always forget that if I don't one shot them they get super annoying and need a very precise set of events to occur in order to do real damage.

[Jasmine]

I am not sure if that Ronia/DW Batman/Beelz combo could have killed him or not, but even if it had, the rest of the dungeon would not have been fun...

e: Actually, it looks like that combo would have been way more than good enough.

Huh, you sure about that? A perfect enhanced 4x TPA + 2 combo board nets 600k for me - with 2x from bats still is 300k short of being able to hurt fatty.

I just want DBZ because while we have a lot of Dragons, most of them are godawful. And I think that's a shame. Unfortunately, if we get DBZ collab, then I will probably end up no longer thinking of my dragon teams as "dragon teams", and instead they will be "Mostly DBZ teams". There's that wide a gulf in power between the stars of that collab and the vast majority of our other options.

What you mean to say is while we have a lot of dragons, most of them are not from REM. For a player with mediocre luck and no rerolling, dragon teams are very competitive against other farmables - possibly even the best due to sheer variety.

Why waste your time with red chaser when Guan Yinping does the exact same thing but let's you bring healers?

Because red chaser active >>> yinping active.

Well that was fun in Challenge Descendeds. I just managed to spend 75 turns on the boss floor in Thoth and Sopdet because of some flukey binds (SO MANY LEADER BINDS), no skyfalls to complete combo, and general sloppiness. I managed to be so careless as to whittle them down below 20% and died. I always forget that if I don't one shot them they get super annoying and need a very precise set of events to occur in order to do real damage.

I feel ya - that's what happened to me during the last set. Such a waste of time!


Was out today so missed Tama retreat/most of plus eggs, so I lied, AHades is only +267, not max.

[Quietus]

What you mean to say is while we have a lot of dragons, most of them are not from REM. For a player with mediocre luck and no rerolling, dragon teams are very competitive against other farmables - possibly even the best due to sheer variety.

As far as decent farmable dragons go, we have the RGB starters, Rippers, Zeus Vulcan (just learned he's a dragon!), the heart breakers like Jester and Angelion (limited), Dark Skydragon (Niche, limited), Wangren and Beyzul

Key farmable dragons are limited to Draggie, Fagan, Starling (limited), Corpse Wyrm, the Late Bloomers, Zaerog, and Sonia Gran

Occasionally we get the fruit dragon gift dungeons, and there's plenty of other farmable dragons, but the vast majority of the non-REM dragons are pretty terrible. You could use the insect dragons, but they're limited at best, mostly useful for low cost. From what we have farmable, most of it is either niche, or mediocre, or doesn't work all that well together. There's not a lot of synergy between what we have up there. I can't see how you'd do end game content with that stuff, considering getting the better things like Fagan and Zaerog cannot be done using a farmable dragon team.

[Jasmine]

From what we have farmable, most of it is either niche, or mediocre, or doesn't work all that well together. There's not a lot of synergy between what we have up there. I can't see how you'd do end game content with that stuff, considering getting the better things like Fagan and Zaerog cannot be done using a farmable dragon team.

You can't go directly from dragon to fagan, but back when dungeons actually required some thinking, people would actually figure out dungeon pathfinding - that you can take Hera with scrub team + grodin friend, take valk with dark snowglobe/ heras/high dark ninja + lucifer friend, beelzebub with valk/echi/angelion/echi/flex(unicorn), and fagan with beez/vamp/baddie/dj/CDD. Of course, you could also throw money until you roll onetrueteam or truewhaleteam Personal preference on whether doing it the hard way is more enjoyable.

For a LFagan team, same beelz/ronia team can be used to take out Defoud which provides a reasonably quick orbchanger. THD and angelion can also be used. Divinegon is borderline farmable but I wouldn't count on it.

DFagan has an easier time with CDK and Hadar being on type, CDD being easier to skillup and a DJJD already prepared from the Beelz team. Tiamat for borderline farmables.

That's a pretty decent goal for your alt, if you end up not lucking out at the REM.

[obryn]

Huh, you sure about that? A perfect enhanced 4x TPA + 2 combo board nets 600k for me - with 2x from bats still is 300k short of being able to hurt fatty.

No.

Are you including both the +orb awakenings (I was getting x1.47 IIRC) and Ronia's 1.2x combo bonus?

[Meta]

I've got 6 cards with +36 so I'm looking to move them onto one of my subs or leaders. My frontrunners are Liu Bei (max skilled), Verdandi (1 skill up) and Bastet (couple skill ups, but it's mostly prep for when we get her awoken and Sphinx.)

I'll get mileage out of each, so I figure I'd ask if there's one in particular that would be useful to my friends here. Liu Bei for challenge mode sub extraordinaire or Verdandi/Bastet for descends and the like would be my first thoughts.

Any input?

[Quietus]

I've got 6 cards with +36 so I'm looking to move them onto one of my subs or leaders. My frontrunners are Liu Bei (max skilled), Verdandi (1 skill up) and Bastet (couple skill ups, but it's mostly prep for when we get her awoken and Sphinx.)

I'll get mileage out of each, so I figure I'd ask if there's one in particular that would be useful to my friends here. Liu Bei for challenge mode sub extraordinaire or Verdandi/Bastet for descends and the like would be my first thoughts.

Any input?

Have you got any fully +'ed leads yet? If not, then I would look at what you intend to use as a lead and add them there. Bastet is an extremely good option, even without her Awoken form she's powerful, and once we get Medjedra (three or four days!) and Sphinx, she's capable of going up to 6x with a 7 combo and skill activation. Very, very versatile. She'd be my first choice, personally.

Actually, on that note, I should take a long hard look at the Sphinx dungeon and figure out what Bastet needs to beat it (along with the Wednesday dungeon). Then I'll know what I'm aiming for.

[Fax Celestis]

Guan Yinping bookends, Two echidna, one Gigas and one red chaser? Quadruple health, healer RCV, two fire enhance actives, two orb creation actives (warning: red chaser skill ups is gonna be balls) and two long-period delays.

Guan Yinping//Gigas/Gigas/Echidna/Echidna//Guan Yinping. Completely farmable, team cost of 10 or less for the whole thing. 44k HP, 18k ATK, 1500 RCV. Yeah, you can put that red chaser in there instead, but I'd rather have the double heartbreak. Or, if you inexplicably have one, I'd put a red shieldra in there instead of a Gigas. You drop to 41k HP and 16k ATK, but bump to 17k RCV and gain a 3k Heal + W>H orbshift, which you can junction with Gigas for a burst.

Golden Fox Spirit, Wolyafa or Fire Courier Mitsuki also works in place of the Red Shieldra: your HP drops a little, but your ATK and RCV go up, and Wolyafa/Mitsuki makes your Gigas-burst bigger. Hell, if you do Guan Yinping//Gigas/Wolyafa/Flame Chaser/Echidna//Guan Yinping, a Flame Chaser > Wolyafa > Gigas > Guan Yinping is a fully enhanced red board.

[SiuiS]

Guan Yinping//Gigas/Gigas/Echidna/Echidna//Guan Yinping. Completely farmable, team cost of 10 or less for the whole thing. 44k HP, 18k ATK, 1500 RCV. Yeah, you can put that red chaser in there instead, but I'd rather have the double heartbreak. Or, if you inexplicably have one, I'd put a red shieldra in there instead of a Gigas. You drop to 41k HP and 16k ATK, but bump to 17k RCV and gain a 3k Heal + W>H orbshift, which you can junction with Gigas for a burst.

Golden Fox Spirit, Wolyafa or Fire Courier Mitsuki also works in place of the Red Shieldra: your HP drops a little, but your ATK and RCV go up, and Wolyafa/Mitsuki makes your Gigas-burst bigger. Hell, if you do Guan Yinping//Gigas/Wolyafa/Flame Chaser/Echidna//Guan Yinping, a Flame Chaser > Wolyafa > Gigas > Guan Yinping is a fully enhanced red board.

Yeah. I was adding in red chaser because his active is more useful than a simple heart break, but I wouldn't lead with him as Jasmine suggested because that active doesn't matter if you don't survive to the boss.

Good to know the chaser>Mitsuki>Gigas thing would work to full-board shift. That would end all my troubles.

... If I had red chaser >_>
Where do I farm one?

[Meta]

Have you got any fully +'ed leads yet? If not, then I would look at what you intend to use as a lead and add them there. Bastet is an extremely good option, even without her Awoken form she's powerful, and once we get Medjedra (three or four days!) and Sphinx, she's capable of going up to 6x with a 7 combo and skill activation. Very, very versatile. She'd be my first choice, personally.

Actually, on that note, I should take a long hard look at the Sphinx dungeon and figure out what Bastet needs to beat it (along with the Wednesday dungeon). Then I'll know what I'm aiming for.

Negatory. My thought is that LB and Verd are gonna be on the bastet team anyways, the +s are always used when I run her, but will other people be using bastet as much as verd?

[Sallera]

I love Challenge Descended, and all, but... sod you, Zeus Vulcan. -.- I've got everything else aside from the 99 stam ones cleared on the phone account (still have four to go on the tablet, I think), but it took me six or eight tries just to get to the end, and, well...

Spoiler: Note to self: max level -everything-

Show

GrOdin and Echidna are only 80-something, since I don't use them much. I really need to fix that.

[Otravyat]

I love Challenge Descended, and all, but... sod you, Zeus Vulcan. -.- I've got everything else aside from the 99 stam ones cleared on the phone account (still have four to go on the tablet, I think), but it took me six or eight tries just to get to the end, and, well...

Spoiler: Note to self: max level -everything-

Show

GrOdin and Echidna are only 80-something, since I don't use them much. I really need to fix that.

Well it is impressive to get that close regardless. At least on your tablet you will have the big damage boost from U&Y attributes. I cleared Vulcan without too much trouble this time around but haven't yet finished Mercury, Zhao Yun, or Sandalphon (doable, just havent taken the time).

[Sallera]

Yeah, Merc, Vulcan, ZY and Sandy are the same ones I'm working on. Merc I've cleared before, so I ought to get it eventually. ZY I just kind of hate, so I'm saving it for last. What do you do for Sandy, B/L Isis? I gave that a shot earlier, but ended up having to use SQ on Raphael, so Sandy himself didn't go too well.

[obryn]

Yeah, Merc, Vulcan, ZY and Sandy are the same ones I'm working on. Merc I've cleared before, so I ought to get it eventually. ZY I just kind of hate, so I'm saving it for last. What do you do for Sandy, B/L Isis? I gave that a shot earlier, but ended up having to use SQ on Raphael, so Sandy himself didn't go too well.

Sandalphon is all about timing, bind clears, healing, and bringing along as little Dark damage as humanly possible. I got well-practiced at his dungeon back when I was working on skilling him up.

(1) Nuke the unicorns.
(2) Angel is the stall monster; just be careful not to kill her too hard or too quickly. She doesn't have that many HP and she gets angry at <70% HP. This can be hard while simultaneously clearing enough of the board to get more hearts to drop, but nobody ever promised this would be easy.
(3) There is no good reason to stall on the 3rd round Archangels at all. Kill them fast as you can. Gabriel gives you your first chance to clear some binds; use whatever you got if you get him. I just Ra down Michael if he is unlucky enough to show up; I have no idea how tough he is otherwise.
(4) Raphael is the real boss. Do you need to have a Dark monster on your team? Well, bring as little Dark damage as possible - just a single monster with the Dark subtype at most. Otherwise, maybe look into Thanatos? I have no idea; good luck. If you can time it well and you brought a defensive sub (Golem, Susano) use it right before killing off Raph.
(5) Sandy ain't so bad. He's cake if he can't skill lock you, but even if he can, you basically just need to heal through a few rounds, then kill. Otherwise, I hope you brought along another unbindable bind-clearer, eh?

[Otravyat]

Yeah, Merc, Vulcan, ZY and Sandy are the same ones I'm working on. Merc I've cleared before, so I ought to get it eventually. ZY I just kind of hate, so I'm saving it for last. What do you do for Sandy, B/L Isis? I gave that a shot earlier, but ended up having to use SQ on Raphael, so Sandy himself didn't go too well.

Mostly what Obryn said, but a couple notes for U&Y specifically. I cleared it a while ago when I still had an un-uvo'd U&Y to use as a leader with a friend hypermax uvo, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do for leader this time around. I tried it once with B/L Isis and died on Raphael (I was sad). That was with Batman though, so I think flipping him for G/D Ceres could do the trick. Izanagi for the boss, and Ceres makes him going below 50% just like a skip turn.

[Sallera]

Yeah, good points. After I failed a couple more times with U&Y//Isis, I just gave up on that and ran DQXQ//Sakuya to get rid of dark entirely, which I probably should have done from the start. Got lucky and Gabriel showed up, so I could just tank through the bind. Down to three.

[SiuiS]

Michael on Sandalphon is identical to Ra on thoth&Sopdet. He's easy but orb screw sucks.

Listen to Obryn on this one. Realization that Raphael is the real boss and Sandy just makes sure you don't get sloppy, helps. That's how several of my dungeons have gone; the boss isn't hard, I can just heal up. It's getting there that's hard, and saving skills for the boss you'll never get to is less efficient than getting to the boss and still having a chance at all.

[Otravyat]

Yeah, good points. After I failed a couple more times with U&Y//Isis, I just gave up on that and ran DQXQ//Sakuya to get rid of dark entirely, which I probably should have done from the start. Got lucky and Gabriel showed up, so I could just tank through the bind. Down to three.

I'm considering running Sakuya//DQXQ as well. I've got the nice Apollo/LMeta/Echidna/Valk core lineup for it. I just suck at Kirin so I am going to have to really focus and plan everything out. Which i should probably always do...

[Ionbound]

So, other then Valk, are there any other decent Light-Orb makers? I don't think that my Lmeta team is viable without one.

[Sallera]

Michael on Sandalphon is identical to Ra on thoth&Sopdet. He's easy but orb screw sucks.

Sure, he's easy when you run unbindable leads. If you can't fix the bind immediately, though, he's significantly harder than Ra - the latter lets you miss up to 16 damage before you're in trouble, Michael lets you miss 1.

[Otravyat]

So, other then Valk, are there any other decent Light-Orb makers? I don't think that my Lmeta team is viable without one.

A lot of the common orb changers for LMeta actually make hearts and can then be chained with Valk for large shifts. Angelion is a common heart maker sub who is farmable. Fuu is a nice double changer, and Raphael turns the entire board to hearts, but those are from the REM.

I can't think of many healers that make light directly asides Valk and Da Qiao & Xiao Qiao, which include light orbs in their shift. Siuis will probably provide other examples.

Sure, he's easy when you run unbindable leads. If you can't fix the bind immediately, though, he's significantly harder than Ra - the latter lets you miss up to 16 damage before you're in trouble, Michael lets you miss 1.

This. Ra is SO much easier for me than Michael.

[SiuiS]

So, other then Valk, are there any other decent Light-Orb makers? I don't think that my Lmeta team is viable without one.

Nope! DQXQ sorta, but valkyrie or her skill up materials are your only real choices.

Sure, he's easy when you run unbindable leads. If you can't fix the bind immediately, though, he's significantly harder than Ra - the latter lets you miss up to 16 damage before you're in trouble, Michael lets you miss 1.

Or you use echidna on his final action and have a leeway of 36.

Really, it's like you guys forgot about the basics once you got neck deep in REM.

[Fax Celestis]

Yeah. I was adding in red chaser because his active is more useful than a simple heart break, but I wouldn't lead with him as Jasmine suggested because that active doesn't matter if you don't survive to the boss.

Good to know the chaser>Mitsuki>Gigas thing would work to full-board shift. That would end all my troubles.

... If I had red chaser >_>
Where do I farm one?

Thoth and Sopdet Descended, actually. Also Fire War Dragon (currently in the coin dungeon rotation) and Red Pirate Dragon.

[Jasmine]

Realization that Raphael is the real boss and Sandy just makes sure you don't get sloppy, helps.

Depends on your team, honestly. If you don't run dark and aren't active reliant, Ralph is the easiest part of the dungeon - free 5 turns to stall, where the enemy doesn't touch you at all. Can't ask for a better deal than that. (jk IIRC some blue dragons waits 7 turns before hitting you, the blue land and the blue ancient, I think)

So, other then Valk, are there any other decent Light-Orb makers? I don't think that my Lmeta team is viable without one.

You can use mini DQXQ if you started early enough, otherwise you have tornado holy dragon (evolved lil white)

Sure, he's easy when you run unbindable leads. If you can't fix the bind immediately, though, he's significantly harder than Ra - the latter lets you miss up to 16 damage before you're in trouble, Michael lets you miss 1.

If you're leading Kirin, throw out the gravity here to earn a bit of leeway.

Or you use echidna on his final action and have a leeway of 36.

That doesn't negate the statement that he's significantly harder than Ra - one likely requires an active and one doesn't.

Also, the Michaels that usually show up in C8 are even more annoying - 4 more hp, more attack, and the kicker is the no RCV dungeon, so you end up dying before status shield wears off =_= In contrast sandys michael is cake.

[SiuiS]

Depends on your team, honestly. If you don't run dark and aren't active reliant, Ralph is the easiest part of the dungeon - free 5 turns to stall, where the enemy doesn't touch you at all. Can't ask for a better deal than that. (jk IIRC some blue dragons waits 7 turns before hitting you, the blue land and the blue ancient, I think)

Too generic. I've seen TPA teams that don't rely on actives but still struggled. It's more likely to say that high-output, non-active combo leads are a rarity compared to the rest of possible worthwhile team comps. Sure, there's an exception, but that doesn't disprove the rule, as it were.

That doesn't negate the statement that he's significantly harder than Ra - one likely requires an active and one doesn't.

Yeah, Ra requires a heartbreak and Michael doesn't. ;P

[Otravyat]

Nope! DQXQ sorta, but valkyrie or her skill up materials are your only real choices.



Or you use echidna on his final action and have a leeway of 36.

Really, it's like you guys forgot about the basics once you got neck deep in REM.

Huh. I really thought that he had a longer status shield than that. Well I bow to you, thanks for the tip.

That doesn't negate the statement that he's significantly harder than Ra - one likely requires an active and one doesn't.

Also, the Michaels that usually show up in C8 are even more annoying - 4 more hp, more attack, and the kicker is the no RCV dungeon, so you end up dying before status shield wears off =_= In contrast sandys michael is cake.

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I was wondering why I remembered Michael as being such a pain in the ass. Those no RCV versions are brutal.

Yeah, Ra requires a heartbreak and Michael doesn't. ;P

Huh?

[SiuiS]

Huh. I really thought that he had a longer status shield than that. Well I bow to you, thanks for the tip.

When I fought him, he spends his first turn throwing a bind, then three doing up to 12k damage when his shield dries up. Gives you a grace period to drop echidna or the like before he hits for 800%.

Huh?

I'm being smarmy. Both guys require an active to guarantee success, so I turned Jasmine's statement on its head and tossed it back.

[Otravyat]

When I fought him, he spends his first turn throwing a bind, then three doing up to 12k damage when his shield dries up. Gives you a grace period to drop echidna or the like before he hits for 800%.



I'm being smarmy. Both guys require an active to guarantee success, so I turned Jasmine's statement on its head and tossed it back.

Yeah I saw that in the regular descended version you have a period to delay him. It is just in the crazy no RCV version where you can't. My confusion on the second statement was about you saying that Ra needs a heartbreaker. I never use actives against Ra.

[Jasmine]

Too generic. I've seen TPA teams that don't rely on actives but still struggled. It's more likely to say that high-output, non-active combo leads are a rarity compared to the rest of possible worthwhile team comps. Sure, there's an exception, but that doesn't disprove the rule, as it were.

Yeah, Ra requires a heartbreak and Michael doesn't. ;P

Uh, what kind of useless TPA team doesn't rely on actives? Going quasi-monocolor and orbchanging is the whole shtick behind TPA. Also, non active reliant kinda infers high output which used to infer needing combo skill, so lets not work for the department of redundancy department.

By active reliant I mean using an active increases your damage by 100% or more/needing to press buttons before getting to the boss. Which admittedly is the majority of teams, which also means it's not generic at all. Refusing to use actives on a particular round =/= not active reliant.

I do get your sentiment though - Raph with no actives is harder than Sandy with all your actives. But it's more clear and useful to say it worth dropping a few actives on Raph to even out the difficulty than to outright say Raph is the real boss, cause unless you're running a bunch of darks, he's honestly not.

Ra is 1 hp easier than Michael assuming unbindable leaders - if they're bindable it's no contest, and with unbindability being arguably rarer than nonactive reliability, that's even more of an exception-not-the-rule you were just advocating. Like Otra, I never use actives against Ra, but occasionally die to Michael - though admittedly only to the no RCV buffed up version.