Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated

[lio45]

Either the sexual attraction or romantic attraction axes can be considered a weighted average of the other axes (for non ace types imo/e)

Multiple axes works, but they're not necessarily independent of each other.

I think it makes sense to separate the concepts of "sexy" and "beautiful" as they're clearly not the same thing (though some people have both and others have none).

However, the romantic attraction axe is most definitely not an independent axe like the three others could be argued to be. It's (always?) going to be a product of the three others.

For example, consider this simple case. If all three "sexy", "beautiful" and "personality" axes are at zero for you for a given person, it's a safe bet that the "I'm romantically attracted to you for some reason" axe will be at zero too.

So, yeah, I generally agree with you.

[lio45]

Currently no, but I think that has more to do with my equipment than theirs. Given my active and vivid fantasy life () I think that will change once the issue has been addressed.

What kind of timeframe are we looking at for that? If it's reasonably visible on the horizon, it wouldn't be unreasonable to start going on dates already, taking it slow enough that the question of "your equipment" doesn't enter the picture yet.

Maybe you two won't even get past the "a few dates in a row" stage anyway, in which case "the issue" will have been irrelevant.

[Lycunadari]

Yeah, that squarely falls into "more nuances that aren't that important right now". There have been a ton of articles and stuff been written about it, so of course my one paragraph long explanation left some things out.

But also, does it even matter? Maybe the axes are completely independent, maybe they're not, maybe it varies from person to person. That doesn't make it any less useful as a tool to think about relationships. Just because some "configurations" (like the "no platonic/sexual/aesthetic but romantic attraction") are unlikely or even impossible doesn't change that it is a working model for a lot of people.

(Another thing I left out in my explanation, because I didn't think it was that important, is that it doesn't have to work for everyone. If you don't think it accurately describes how you experience relationships, that's okay! If you think some or all of the axes are connected, or don't make sense to you at all, or anything, that's okay! If you like part of the model but not all of it, that's okay! It's not meant to be a be-all end-all of relationship model. But for many people it is useful in describing and figuring out their feelings, identity and relationships, and I just thought it might be able to help Helio as well.)

[lio45]

That doesn't make it any less useful as a tool to think about relationships.

More or less agree (generally speaking). The "findings" you'd get using this "tool" are usually low-hanging fruit that you'd have already figured out. For example, Helio's case:

"Personality" axe: very high
"Yummy" axe: very low

And the result of that is that the "I'm attracted romantically" axe is low as well, because for non-asexual people, the yummy axe is pretty important in a long-term relationship.

The main question is, can various factors conceivably make that very same guy possibly perform better on Helio's "yummy" axe in the future? Some signs point to yes, so I personally wouldn't say it's a hopeless case and she should totally move on.

But we definitely didn't need axes to figure all of this out.

[Lycunadari]

*shrug* If you say so. I, personally, find it very useful, and learning about it has helped me a lot. I just thought maybe it would help Helio as well.


(Also, we're on page 50, someone should make a new thread.)

[lio45]

*shrug* If you say so. I, personally, find it very useful, and learning about it has helped me a lot. I just thought maybe it would help Helio as well.


(Also, we're on page 50, someone should make a new thread.)

For someone asexual, sure, I have no problem taking your word that it's useful. My point was simply that Helio's case is clear enough that nothing's gained by introducing these separate axes. I'd dare say that most cases out there are simple enough that the axes don't bring anything more to the table. In the case of someone in a happy relationship, surely their significant other ranks high on all four axes, yet their attraction is more complex than merely just a matter of summing up scores in various categories of attractiveness. It's not just the sum of the parts.

[Coidzor]

(Another thing I left out in my explanation, because I didn't think it was that important, is that it doesn't have to work for everyone. If you don't think it accurately describes how you experience relationships, that's okay! If you think some or all of the axes are connected, or don't make sense to you at all, or anything, that's okay! If you like part of the model but not all of it, that's okay! It's not meant to be a be-all end-all of relationship model. But for many people it is useful in describing and figuring out their feelings, identity and relationships, and I just thought it might be able to help Helio as well.)

Maybe try extending the same grace to others that you ask for instead of demanding that others take responsibility for your emotional and mental health.

[Astrella]

Maybe try extending the same grace to others that you ask for instead of demanding that others take responsibility for your emotional and mental health.

Uhm, where have they been doing that? :/

[Coidzor]

Uhm, where have they been doing that? :/

Here, a few posts into the recent debacle, and in the LGBTA thread when they began talking about recent posts in that other thread.

[Astrella]

I don't think someone remarking how erasure gets to them (a valid complaint) is somehow holding other people responsible for their health. :/ (And like, hey, erasure does have negative effects on people, it's why we should try our best to avoid it.)

[Aedilred]

I don't think someone remarking how erasure gets to them (a valid complaint) is somehow holding other people responsible for their health. :/ (And like, hey, erasure does have negative effects on people, it's why we should try our best to avoid it.)

I hope Lycunadari isn't too upset about what happened, but what essentially we saw here was a conversation which wasn't about or relevant to asexual people, and which Lycunadari wasn't initially part of, that they joined in order to protest that not enough attention had been paid to asexuality in the course of it, and when some of those who had been involved tried to explain why that was, complained that the discussion was damaging to their mental health and therefore, whether intentionally or not, dumped a whole load of blame for that on the heads of a number of people here, Coidzor included.

Quite irrespective of whether Lycunadari's original point was valid (which is debatable), it was nevertheless Lycunadari who started this line of conversation, and I can see why Coidzor feels a bit aggrieved that he's effectively being blamed for the resulting apparent emotional damage.

[lio45]

Eighteen words are all that should need to be said to put this to rest:

Short version: It's not erasure if you're specifically talking about a situation or a person not in the "erased" group.

[Coidzor]

I recently started my first relationship, with a woman who lives on another continent. Things were going great for about a month, I had nothing but happiness, but this past week, I've had some severe anxiety tracing back to this relationship. I'm not sure exactly what the root of it is; I think my inexperience, the fact that I've never been with anybody before, is intersecting quite unpleasantly with preexisting problems with trusting people and self-esteem. She's already told me that she loves me more than anything and that I was the best thing that had happened to her, but some part of me is still despairing that either this is a comforting lie and she doesn't really think much of me, or conversely that she's going to figure out that I'm not actually worth much and be disappointed in me.

She does make me very happy-- in fact, with all the **** going on right now, she's honestly been there for me in a way nobody else really has. But I'm very worried that maybe I wasn't ready for a relationship and that I might not be able to successfully prevent my neuroses from ruining this. She's told me she's always happy to help talk me through the tough times when the anxiety is really getting at me, but I'm certain if she isn't sick of it already she soon will be.

I'm visiting her in about a month... Will that maybe make things a little easier to deal with? Is the distance a primary aggravating factor here?

Unfortunately, it's a complicated subject, especially without knowing the both of you and the nature of the insecurities better.

Generally, yes, distance aggravates any kind of doubt or insecurity. In some cases to the point where it's a non-issue once distance is removed, but in others the underlying issue remains just not as intense, at least initially.

Especially if you're both open to touch and the like, because that's a great source of bonding and relief for most people.

It's usually best to take people at their word, though, especially about being with you when they could have easily left if they weren't interested.

It can definitely be fatiguing to rehash the same conversation, that's part of why it's best to try to make some progress on your own, whether through journaling or self-reflection, or pursue formal help from a professional. Still, depending upon how often meltdowns occur, there's some amount of leeway, especially if enough time passes for them to have cooled down from the last time, or progress is being made.

Sorry for the belated reply.

[TechnOkami]

50 pages reached? Time for a new thread!

My suggestion: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: More Junk than Your Trunk can Handle

[Crow]

Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Unwittingly Creating Our Own Drama

[Aedilred]

Alright, I've taken an executive decision and started a new thread