Hearthstone 11: Hic Sunt Dragones!

[Zevox]

So, fun thing today: I'm playing my Dragon Priest against a Murloc Warlock (haven't seen one of those in ages, so boy was that a surprise in itself). I actually got to use Cabal Shadow Priest on his Murloc Tidecaller, which had been buffed by a Coldlight Seer. So I got a 4-health minion that gained attack any time he played Murlocs. I believe he conceded two turns later, which is probably two turns longer than he should've taken to realize that was a hopeless battle, given I had the advantage from turn 1 (Twilight Whelp opening when going first, good curve), so he wasn't exactly doing great even before that Shadow Priest came down. Still, it was very fun seeing his cards actually buff my minion, even if only for one turn.

Maybe it's just unusual experiences I've had but I gave Death's Bite a long trial because I initially believed it was an auto include and it never worked for me. The number of times I wished Death's Bite was Whirlwind far exceeded the times I wished my Whirlwind was Death's Bite since I had a million and one other removal spells available that were cheaper and Whirlwind fits a very niche role as a cheap trigger and removal spell that I could use on demand without affecting the rest of my turn. At least a little bit of it is probably associated with the fact that double Brawl means I see that alot more often and never felt a great need for removal that's only a turn earlier.

I wouldn't even be comparing Death's Bite and Whirlwind, honestly. They serve two completely different purposes: the whirlwind deathrattle on Death's Bite is a bonus, not the main point of it. The main point is being two-use removal for mid-size targets, which it's quite good at. Sometimes the first strike needs a little help from a minion, a Taskmaster's battlecry, or a Whirlwind, but in general it's just strong at what it does.

Maybe, but Gorehowl and Brawl has covered those threats pretty well. As I'm replying, I'm beginning to see that as much as anything else, that extra Brawl and keeping Gorehowl has a pretty significant effect on what I consider to be essential in my deck.

Doctor Boom I can see there, but those aren't so much help against Antonidas if he gets Cloaking Fielded, or just generates a few fireballs off other spare parts on the turn he's played. I suppose I can see what you mean about those having a big impact on your view of the deck, though, at least.

This might be a recent fad but I've been seeing alot more controlish Dragon Paladins with the full release of BRM.

Really? What little I'd heard (and attempted myself) suggested those weren't performing very well, so I figured they'd dry up quickly enough. Either someone figured them out of they're lingering longer than I expected I guess.

[Azimov]

In my eternal quest to suck slightly less at hearthstone I finally got together the dust to craft a Lightbomb (alas poor Mekgineer Thermaplug, your sacrifice shall be remembered on the altar of progress). I swapped it in, removing my last copy of mind control and immediately gained three ranks, putting myself at the quite respectable rank 13. Lightbomb has been instrumental in every single match so far (except for that one match against a hunter which just went completely mammary skywards when my deathlord pulled a highmane for my opponent).

So as a piece of advice for any aspiring priests out there, dat lightbomb. It works.

And finally for the question for any more experienced players, I assume I should be aiming for a second lightbomb to put into the deck for more reliability? or is 2x lightbomb, 2x holy nova too much AOE?

[Temotei]

In my eternal quest to suck slightly less at hearthstone I finally got together the dust to craft a Lightbomb (alas poor Mekgineer Thermaplug, your sacrifice shall be remembered on the altar of progress). I swapped it in, removing my last copy of mind control and immediately gained three ranks, putting myself at the quite respectable rank 13. Lightbomb has been instrumental in every single match so far (except for that one match against a hunter which just went completely mammary skywards when my deathlord pulled a highmane for my opponent).

So as a piece of advice for any aspiring priests out there, dat lightbomb. It works.

And finally for the question for any more experienced players, I assume I should be aiming for a second lightbomb to put into the deck for more reliability? or is 2x lightbomb, 2x holy nova too much AOE?

Double lightbomb is probably too much, even if you're only running one nova.

EDIT: That said, try it out if you get another one. I only have the one (which I crafted), so I can't try it out myself. At the very least, it would surprise your opponent, but I think Lightbomb is a one-of at most.

[Gandariel]

And finally for the question for any more experienced players, I assume I should be aiming for a second lightbomb to put into the deck for more reliability? or is 2x lightbomb, 2x holy nova too much AOE?

Nah, one is fine. Work on Cabal Shadow Priests!

[Azimov]

Despite Having a pair of shadow word death, a BGH and a lightbomb, I have discovered that I cant handle a true handlock without a second big hitter AOE to deal with the giants. My current line of thinking is that a second Lightbomb would help with both grim patron decks (all the rage at the moment) as well as handlocks (also very popular after the HTC tournament).

Having not had a chance to really play around with the Cabal's I cant really see what they would bring to the deck, other than even more early/mid dominance which isn't something i really lack at the moment. Also their 6 mana is really off putting. Even with the expanded range from the shrinkmeisters, stealing a 2 attack minion is less appealing to me than blowing up the board, but i can certainly fit one into the deck at least. Just maybe not two.

[Tesla_pasta]

What are you guys running for Dragon Priest and Control Priest? I've been working on a decklist, but I'm kinda lost for direction. I like the Shadow Cabal priest a lot so far, and haunted spider + zombie chow has been good for early presence, but I'm not sure how to fill out the beef of the deck. Piloted Mech? Belcher? Azure Drake?

I've only been playing ladder for a week so far, so I'm still slogging it through the 16-13 range.

[Zevox]

And finally for the question for any more experienced players, I assume I should be aiming for a second lightbomb to put into the deck for more reliability? or is 2x lightbomb, 2x holy nova too much AOE?

I haven't played much Priest since GvG came out, but I know the Chinese-designed version that's been the more popular flavor for a while now runs two of both.

Having not had a chance to really play around with the Cabal's I cant really see what they would bring to the deck, other than even more early/mid dominance which isn't something i really lack at the moment. Also their 6 mana is really off putting. Even with the expanded range from the shrinkmeisters, stealing a 2 attack minion is less appealing to me than blowing up the board, but i can certainly fit one into the deck at least. Just maybe not two.

Cabal Shadow Priest is amazing. It can be easy to dismiss, but even getting something really small with it is good: you've both removed something from your opponent's board and added something to yours without actually expending a card. Getting something like a Druid's Keeper of the Grove is pretty solid, getting a Warrior's Acolyte of Pain can cause them a lot of headaches, and it's great against aggro/Zoo-ish decks that run a lot of smaller minions. With Shrinkmeister it becomes absurd, stealing things like Sludge Belcher or Piloted Shredder - in the absolute dream scenario even Cairne or Ysera. Those two phased out of the metagame when GvG came out basically entirely because of the strength of Shrinkmeister + Shadow Priest.

What are you guys running for Dragon Priest and Control Priest? I've been working on a decklist, but I'm kinda lost for direction. I like the Shadow Cabal priest a lot so far, and haunted spider + zombie chow has been good for early presence, but I'm not sure how to fill out the beef of the deck. Piloted Mech? Belcher? Azure Drake?

I've only been playing ladder for a week so far, so I'm still slogging it through the 16-13 range.

This is a fairly typical example of the Chinese-designed Priest I mentioned earlier as being the more common form for Control Priest these days.

The Dragon Priest I mentioned in my last post is a very experimental deck I made just to test things out with the new cards. I haven't played it enough to say how well it performs overall, since I've played more arena than constructed since Blackrock Mountain finished, but it's designed to be a mid-range deck that plays in a somewhat Zoo-ish manner: get a board presence early, then strive to never lose it, especially using buffs and healing to make your board difficult to handle. Win by killing control decks before they can stabilize, or by out-controlling aggro decks, or by whichever seems more likely to work against other midrange decks. I do think it can probably be improved, but I need to play it more to get a better idea for exactly what to do to it.

Spoiler: Priest of Tiamat

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2x Power Word: Shield
2x Northshire Cleric
2x Twilight Whelp
2x Gilblin Stalker
2x Shrinkmeister
1x Shadow Word: Death
2x Velen's Chosen
2x Blackwing Technician
2x Dark Cultist
2x Dragonkin Sorcerer
2x Hungry Dragon
2x Holy Nova
2x Azure Drake
2x Blackwing Corruptor
Loatheb
1x Cabal Shadow Priest
1x Volcanic Drake

[Gandariel]

Cairne or Ysera. Those two phased out of the metagame when GvG came out basically entirely because of the strength of Shrinkmeister + Shadow Priest.

whoa whoa whoa.

Cairne phased out because it's too slow (and for the decks that WOULD run it, might as well use the Piloted Sky Golem). And because Sylvanas/Loatheb/Thaurissan are just sexier.
Ysera is still used in some control decks (specifically, as a tool vs other control decks)
Considering that priest is still in the bottom 3 least used classes, i'm pretty sure that Cabal + Shrinkmeister (which is not even an autoinclude) is not the reason.

Anyways: random Priest "core"

2x Circle of Healing
2x Northshire
2x Power Word: Shield
2x Zombie Chow
0-1x Shadow Word: Pain
2x Dark Cultist
2x Injured Blademaster
1-2x Shadow Word: Death
2x Auchenai Soulpriest
1x Shadow Madness
1x Holy Nova
2x Sludge Belcher
1x Lightbomb
2x Cabal Shadow Priest
1x Sylvanas
1-2x Other big legend of choice (Rag, Boom, Ysera, Loatheb, Thaurissan)

This is 25ish cards: For the rest, just choose how you want to tune your deck.
Interesting cards include:

Shrinkmeister: it is really good, and i'd probably run it 2x, but if you use him you either have to cut out another low-cost creature (Chow?) or you are pushing your deck on the midrange side, so be aware of that.
Light of the Naaru: Very combo-y, i don't use it but i've seen it work
Thoughtsteal: Control card
Resurrect: Seems fun and powerful. Haven't tested it enough to say anything for sure.
Control Priests sometimes have 1x Mind Control too.
You might wanna run one Owl (or Silence)
Then there are tech cards like MCT, BGH, Kezan.
Oh, and apparently Priests now use Gilblin Stalker. For some reason.

[Zevox]

whoa whoa whoa.

Cairne phased out because it's too slow (and for the decks that WOULD run it, might as well use the Piloted Sky Golem). And because Sylvanas/Loatheb/Thaurissan are just sexier.
Ysera is still used in some control decks (specifically, as a tool vs other control decks)
Considering that priest is still in the bottom 3 least used classes, i'm pretty sure that Cabal + Shrinkmeister (which is not even an autoinclude) is not the reason.

I was speaking of right after GvG came out, not current times. At that point Priest was seeing quite a bit of play, and Shrinkmeister + Cabal was definitely having an impact. We talked about it a couple of times in these threads back at the time, too. I hung onto Cairne for a little longer than most people, if I recall, due to not having great replacements for him. Then I crafted Doctor Boom.

Anyways: random Priest "core"

2x Circle of Healing
2x Northshire
2x Power Word: Shield
2x Zombie Chow
0-1x Shadow Word: Pain
2x Dark Cultist
2x Injured Blademaster
1-2x Shadow Word: Death
2x Auchenai Soulpriest
1x Shadow Madness
1x Holy Nova
2x Sludge Belcher
1x Lightbomb
2x Cabal Shadow Priest
1x Sylvanas
1-2x Other big legend of choice (Rag, Boom, Ysera, Loatheb, Thaurissan)

That would be a more traditional Control Priest core. My experience has been that it was largely replaced by the Chinese variant that doesn't run the Circle or the cards it combos with, instead focusing on Velen's Chosen and packing double Lightbomb.

Oh, and apparently Priests now use Gilblin Stalker. For some reason.

That would be the Chinese variant, and the reason is Velen's Chosen. Gilblin on 2 is almost guaranteed to survive to 3 to get buffed by Velen's Chosen, which basically functions as a better Injured Blademaster + Circle - same stats, can act sooner, has spell damage. The only downside by comparison is vulnerability to silence. An upside is that Velen's Chosen is less likely to be a dead card than Circle of Healing, due to only requiring any minion to use, not a few specific combo cards.

[TechnoWarforged]

Another Draft:

Warlock/Warrior/Rogue

Spoiler: Draft Picks

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Hobgoblin/Shade of naxx/Kidnapper

Belcher/Blademaster/illuminator

Assassinate/Cultmaster/Conceal/

Dread Corsair/Unstable Ghoul/mogu’shan warden

Assassin’s Blade/Drakonid Crusher/Sap

Sabotage/Clockwork Giant/mini Mage

Ringleader/Worgen Infiltrator/ ironforge riftlemen

Flying Machine/Leper Gnome/Fan of Knives

Bloodfen Raptor/Goblin Auto Barber/Faerie Dragon

Bloodsail Corsair/ Violet Teacher/Ancient Mage

Eviscerate/ War Golem/ Puddle stomper

Fen Creeper/Fan of Knives/Gang up

Novice Engineer/Bloodsail Raider/Ironforge Riftlemen

Shiv/Vanish/Murloc Raider

Prep/Enhanco-mechano/Sea Giant

Defias Ringleader/Ironbeak Owl/Hungry Dragon

Sap/Tauren Warrior/Betrayal

Defias Ringleader/Smiteful Smith/Stormwind Knight

Eviscerate/ Conceal/Murloc raider

Junkbot/Murloc Warleader/Sabotage

Ogre Brute/Frostwolf Grunt/Shadowstep

Bomb Lobber/Goblin Sapper/Madder Bomber

Razorfen hunter/Vanish/Shadowstep

Silvermoon Guardian/voodoo witchdoctor/Gangup

Mogu’shan Warden/Tiger/Acolyte of Pain

Novice Engineer/Amani Berserker/Gangup

Nightblade/Murloc Tidehunter/Sinister Strike

Twilight Drake/One Eye Cheat/Injured Blademaster

Bloodsail raider/Annoytron/Sap

Belcher/Angry Chicken/IronSensai

Sigh... only 3 wins.. Had the Pally down to 1 last game but I can't get pass his taunt... a taunt, or an Eviscrate would have done it but nope.. 3 turns and never draw either one. Very sad.

[Zevox]

So. I crafted my second Doomsayer and played Freeze Mage for the first time tonight.

Oh my god, I was doing so much laughing. So much evil, evil laughing.

Best moment: one match against a Mech Mage where I got Thaurissan to stick for an extra turn (because he was focused on popping my ice block and didn't have the damage to do both), and the double discounts let me play the following two turns later: Antonidas (5), Frostbolt x2 (0), Ice Lance x2 (0), Frost Nova (1), Fireball (4). (Yes, the Nova actually served a purpose - my opponent wasn't just dead from all that damage because I hadn't been able to use Alex on him, so it defended Antonidas and my face both.) So I had six Fireballs in hand, all courtesy of Antonidas, and an opponent with at that point almost no hand and a frozen board. Yeah, so much evil laughter.

I also got to play Doomsayer into a Mirror Entity in that match, which was a great feeling too. But still comes nowhere near the fun of that Antonidas play.

I must say though, I'm running the version that Trump has in his most recent videos, and both from my matches and his, I'm seriously questioning the Pyroblast. I don't think I've ever seen it help him win in those videos, and it always felt like a useless card in my hand as well. It seems like the worst of the deck's burn by far, with everything else able to squeeze out more damage more flexibly, and even Thaurissan discounts don't seem to help. I'm just not sure what purpose it serves. Though on the flip side, I'm also not sure what I'd replace it with. Second Flamestrike or Loot Hoarder, maybe? Possibly an Explosive Sheep?

[Temotei]

I must say though, I'm running the version that Trump has in his most recent videos, and both from my matches and his, I'm seriously questioning the Pyroblast. I don't think I've ever seen it help him win in those videos, and it always felt like a useless card in my hand as well. It seems like the worst of the deck's burn by far, with everything else able to squeeze out more damage more flexibly, and even Thaurissan discounts don't seem to help. I'm just not sure what purpose it serves. Though on the flip side, I'm also not sure what I'd replace it with. Second Flamestrike or Loot Hoarder, maybe? Possibly an Explosive Sheep?

Ancient Mage!

But yeah, I'd say another Flamestrike would be fine. I never liked the Pyroblast in Freeze Mage either; I've never played it, but it just looks clunky.

[Gandariel]

Spoiler: Draft Picks

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Assassinate/Cultmaster/Conceal/ Assassinate was also fine

Assassin’s Blade/Drakonid Crusher/Sap Assassin's blade was also fine

Ringleader/Worgen Infiltrator/ ironforge riftlemen Defias was also fine. Am i feeling de ja vu?

Bloodsail Corsair/ Violet Teacher/Ancient Mage Easy Violet teacher here.

Sap/Tauren Warrior/Betrayal your deck isn't fast enough for Sap. I'd take Betrayal

Defias Ringleader/Smiteful Smith/Stormwind Knight do you have enough 2s? i would have considered Defias

Commented :D

Also, you were offered SO many murlocs AND the warleader. you should have gone for the rogue murloc deck

[Frog Dragon]

From having played probably over a 100 matches of that deck fairly recently, I have to disagree on pyroblast. It's true that you often win without it. However, what it does is essentially give you another win condition. Obviously you don't use multiple wincons in the same game.

Having a pyroblast is 10 extra points of game-ending reach. No more, no less. Did you spend fireballs and ice lances to prevent your opponent from overrunning you? Was your Antonidas turn weak, or nonexistent? Did you have to use Alex on yourself, or perhaps you did get to use her on the opponent, but after having used a lot of burn? Pyroblast is your savior in these situations. If everything goes well, you'll have a cleaner, more mana efficient and faster lethal than pyroblast, but sometimes things don't go exactly according to plan. Sometimes you can still win there thanks to that pyroblast you put in the deck.

[Gandariel]

My thoughts exactly. me and Frog Dragon both played the same list for a while, and we agreed on keeping the Pyroblast for just that reason.

Iwas writing some "typical examples" where the knowledge that Pyroblast is in your deck helps, but more in general, I can say:

You are not forced to "squeeze out" as much as possible from Antonidas (wasting Ice Lances just to have one extra fireball in hand).
You do not lose too much if Antonidas gets countered better than you expected. (If they kill it after Antonidas+Frost Nova)

You can use your spells more liberally.

Alexing yourself is not SUCH a big deal.

[GAAD]

Okay, I have an idea. Let's draft an Arena, together, so as to minimize silly mistakes.

Class: Druid

1: Imp Master/Mech Bear Cat/Volcanic Lumberer

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Okay, I have an idea. Let's draft an Arena, together, so as to minimize silly mistakes.

Class: Druid

1: Imp Master/Mech Bear Cat/Volcanic Lumberer

I made a thread for this once. It was too much energy to keep up with and took too long, though.

I'd go with MechBearCat. Good stats for the mana cost, and who runs BGH in Arena? The Spare Parts ability is a nice icing on top.

[Hamste]

Yep agree mechbearcat

[Gandariel]

Mech bear cat. i don't really love Imp Master that much, and the mech is actually strong. It's garbage in constructed, but here in arena it's (at least ) as good as Boulderfist.

[GAAD]

I made a thread for this once. It was too much energy to keep up with and took too long, though.

I'd go with MechBearCat. Good stats for the mana cost, and who runs BGH in Arena? The Spare Parts ability is a nice icing on top.

All right. MBC. Starting a new thread for this.

[Zevox]

From having played probably over a 100 matches of that deck fairly recently, I have to disagree on pyroblast. It's true that you often win without it. However, what it does is essentially give you another win condition. Obviously you don't use multiple wincons in the same game.

Having a pyroblast is 10 extra points of game-ending reach. No more, no less. Did you spend fireballs and ice lances to prevent your opponent from overrunning you? Was your Antonidas turn weak, or nonexistent? Did you have to use Alex on yourself, or perhaps you did get to use her on the opponent, but after having used a lot of burn? Pyroblast is your savior in these situations. If everything goes well, you'll have a cleaner, more mana efficient and faster lethal than pyroblast, but sometimes things don't go exactly according to plan. Sometimes you can still win there thanks to that pyroblast you put in the deck.

My thoughts exactly. me and Frog Dragon both played the same list for a while, and we agreed on keeping the Pyroblast for just that reason.

Iwas writing some "typical examples" where the knowledge that Pyroblast is in your deck helps, but more in general, I can say:

You are not forced to "squeeze out" as much as possible from Antonidas (wasting Ice Lances just to have one extra fireball in hand).
You do not lose too much if Antonidas gets countered better than you expected. (If they kill it after Antonidas+Frost Nova)

You can use your spells more liberally.

Alexing yourself is not SUCH a big deal.

Well, I certainly can't claim much experience with the deck, so I'm loath to turn down the advice of people more knowledgeable with it than me. I will say though that so far, out of ten games I've played with it, I've yet to have any situation which would change my first impression of it come up. It just feels like Alex, Antonidas, and the rest of the deck's burn have me covered, no matter what I'm up against. Though to be fair, I also have yet to face a Warrior (of either type).

I am really enjoying the deck, though. It's a lot more fun to play as than it is to play against, that's for damn sure. Every turn after the first few (where you always just want card draw, Scientist, and maybe Frostbolt if you're up against something very aggressive) feels like a puzzle, where I need to consider which stall or removal cards to use when, when it's crucial to use board clear and when I can save them for more value, when I'm safe to spend mana on card draw instead of defense - all while also needing to think a few turns ahead to try and see which plays might be too risky or might leave me with nothing good to play if I draw poorly. It's fun, and rewarding when I get to make big Antonidas plays, especially ones fueled by Thaurissan (this might just be the single best deck for him thanks to how potent he is with Antonidas).

Also, it's so much fun to turn a Mech/Tempo Mage's Mirror Entities against them with Doomsayer, after the headaches they've sometimes given me with my more usual decks. After playing this deck I'm coming to think that those decks shouldn't ever actually play Mirror Entity or Mad Scientist if they're up against a Freeze Mage: it's a recipe for disaster.

I'm 10-0 with it so far. Though to be fair, since I hadn't played much ranked this month, I was still in the lower ranks when I started, and have seen some odd decks as a result. Including Mech Druid, Mech Priest, and Mech Paladin, for some reason.

[Temotei]

I'm 10-0 with it so far. Though to be fair, since I hadn't played much ranked this month, I was still in the lower ranks when I started, and have seen some odd decks as a result. Including Mech Druid, Mech Priest, and Mech Paladin, for some reason.

I've tried Mech Druid and Mech Priest. Mech Druid sort of works because you can usually get a lot of value out of Savage Roar with tempo from mechs. Not as good as other druids, but it's kind of fun.

[Gray Mage]

Have you guys seen this post from reddit? Golden cards wallpapers.

[Gandariel]

So, i scored a mega combo-wombo play in Arena: It was HILARIOUS

Spoiler

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(I cast pyro, then my spells, which triggered Mech-Bear-Cat for even more spells, and then killed him)

[Anxe]

So, i scored a mega combo-wombo play in Arena: It was HILARIOUS

Spoiler

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(I cast pyro, then my spells, which triggered Mech-Bear-Cat for even more spells, and then killed him)

Damnnn... That's a nice one.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So, i scored a mega combo-wombo play in Arena: It was HILARIOUS

Spoiler

Show

(I cast pyro, then my spells, which triggered Mech-Bear-Cat for even more spells, and then killed him)

That's absolutely hilarious. Buffing your Pyro like that; who do you think you are, a Priest?

[Weimann]

Today I learnt that playing Deathwing on a board with both Stalagg and Feugen will result in double Thaddius. That is insane.

[Infernally Clay]

In my current It-has-three-Truesilvers draft, I had the pick of Illidan, Thermaplugg or Loatheb. I went with the latter on account of Mages being the hardest class to beat due to how easily they can draft their best spells.

Hopefully it pays off.

[Joran]

In my current It-has-three-Truesilvers draft, I had the pick of Illidan, Thermaplugg or Loatheb. I went with the latter on account of Mages being the hardest class to beat due to how easily they can draft their best spells.

Hopefully it pays off.

Loatheb isn't as good in arena as he is in constructed because his stats are just vanilla and his effect is less strong since you can't foresee what cards your opponent has and most arena decks have a lot of minions, compared to what constructed decks are like. Best case scenario, you drop a bunch of small minions and then lock out Flamestrike or Consecration or any of the other AoE clears so you're guaranteed value.

I probably would have picked Illidan out of those 3 choices (1 extra mana for 2 more attack and the ability to generate a bunch of tokens), but Loatheb is not bad.

[otakuryoga]

oooo, I sooooo would have took mekgineer thermoplugg