El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

This page accomplishes almost nothing, except to possibly characterise Mr. Verres as someone who spots loopholes- something that could have been achieved without taking up an entire page to do so.

It also establishes that Volty is not as insane as Pandora, and since insanity is correlated with power in the immortals, it tells us quite a bit about their relative power levels. Any time we see an immortal, we do have to wonder "is this one of the ones that overstayed their 200 year limit, and if so, by how much?" and this is good indication that Volty has not yet overstayed his limit.

GW

[Drascin]

It also establishes that Volty is not as insane as Pandora, and since insanity is correlated with power in the immortals, it tells us quite a bit about their relative power levels. Any time we see an immortal, we do have to wonder "is this one of the ones that overstayed their 200 year limit, and if so, by how much?" and this is good indication that Volty has not yet overstayed his limit.

GW

Yeah, I think this page is there mostly to show that Voltaire is not off his rocker, and is a more logical thinker than most Immortals, seeing how he not only didn't spot it himself, he seems downright aghast that someone could even think that circuitously.

[halfeye]

Yeah, I think this page is there mostly to show that Voltaire is not off his rocker, and is a more logical thinker than most Immortals, seeing how he not only didn't spot it himself, he seems downright aghast that someone could even think that circuitously.

Voltaire not off his rocker?

Are you mad, or just being sarcastic?

He's a liar, and nutty as a fruitcake with it, he just lies about that.

[CWater]

To be honest, all the immortals we've seen have seemed at least a little insane. Pandora's just more crazy than most.

[Vinyadan]

Well, the way their laws are built actually seem to me like an invitation to going crazy.

[Squark]

You know, the way Voltaire responds in this page, it makes me wonder- Is he actually opposed to Pandora? He seems bitter enough that I wonder if he's trying to cause big enough changes that he could push for a new agreement between immortals.

[Felius]

Voltaire, no, while Elliot is safe from you, it's for a completely different reason. Namely that Pandora is going to murder you to actual death for doing what you already did. So... Congratulations on achieving irrelevance...

[AGD]

I always thought that Pandora was the one behind Dex. Now that she isn't behind that, does propably mean, that she isn't as evil as I thought. Okay, wanting to mind**** with Mr. Terres and make him a murderer to get revenge on Arthur was pretty messed up, but she propably isn't planning anything really evil to reveal magic.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I always thought that Pandora was the one behind Dex.

She is still the immortal that marked Dex without his consent. Not to mention everyone else she marked without their consent, including of course Rhoda, who almost got herself killed because of it. "Sure, you're a serial molester, but at least you aren't also an attempted murderer, except the time when you were" is not much of a downgrade of evil.

GW

[CWater]

She is still the immortal that marked Dex without his consent. Not to mention everyone else she marked without their consent, including of course Rhoda, who almost got herself killed because of it. "Sure, you're a serial molester, but at least you aren't also an attempted murderer, except the time when you were" is not much of a downgrade of evil.

GW

Um, didn't subconsciously using her powers actually save Rhoda's life? The boar was about to charge at her but got confused when it grew and she was able to run and climb a tree.

Not to say that I don't believe that Pandora is a very much immoral person, who wouldn't hesitate to kill if she had reason. But I don't think she has tried to end or cause direct harm to anyone else but Abraham and Magus in the comic so far.

Is randomly giving people magic without asking them first evil? I don't know, it's actually quite common within the fantasy genre. Of course, Pandora's reason is not a noble quest to select chosen ones to save the world... or perhaps, in a way, it could be from her perspective. Then again she is most certainly has several screws loose.

[Mando Knight]

I always thought that Pandora was the one behind Dex. Now that she isn't behind that, does propably mean, that she isn't as evil as I thought. Okay, wanting to mind**** with Mr. Terres and make him a murderer to get revenge on Arthur was pretty messed up, but she propably isn't planning anything really evil to reveal magic.

She might have marked Dex, then Voltaire decided to hijack the mark for his own designs in a "two can play that game" manner.

[Calemyr]

I always thought that Pandora was the one behind Dex. Now that she isn't behind that, does propably mean, that she isn't as evil as I thought. Okay, wanting to mind**** with Mr. Terres and make him a murderer to get revenge on Arthur was pretty messed up, but she propably isn't planning anything really evil to reveal magic.

It's probably a two-person situation.

1) Pandora gives him a summon-based mark. (Possibly because of innate affinity, almost certainly tied to his loneliness - all known marks have been tied to nature of their owners).
2) Voltaire sends him an amulet (with a Pandora-implicating amphora inscribed on it). This amulet supercharges Dex and makes him amenable to guidance.
3) Voltaire guides Dex's supercharged summoning to create fake fire elementals and dragons with the intent to draw the attention of and execute Elliot.
4) Noah removes the amulet, Dex is down to his default summon (fairy girl) and free of Voltaire's influence.

[eschmenk]

Voltaire, no, while Elliot is safe from you, it's for a completely different reason. Namely that Pandora is going to murder you to actual death for doing what you already did. So... Congratulations on achieving irrelevance...

I think you are gloating far too early. Don't forget that Voltaire had the private detective tell the abomination that Elliot was vulnerable. That seems to be an additional attempt by Voltaire for there to be an attack on Elliot where Voltaire's part in it is already done.

I think that technically Voltaire could have already broken his vow, at least if he expects the abomination to kill Elliot. If so, and if he is trying to get people around Elliot to lower their defenses, then would still acting to get Elliot killed. His clarification of his vow occurred after he had already vowed once, so the clarification should have been a violation of his first vow, shouldn't it? OTOH, if he's just acting so that he doesn't get blamed when the abomination does something, then it wouldn't be a violation. It also wouldn't be a violation if he doesn't think that the abomination could kill Elliot. That's probably the most likely case, IMO.

[Forum Explorer]

I think you are gloating far too early. Don't forget that Voltaire had the private detective tell the abomination that Elliot was vulnerable. That seems to be an additional attempt by Voltaire for there to be an attack on Elliot where Voltaire's part in it is already done.

I think that technically Voltaire could have already broken his vow, at least if he expects the abomination to kill Elliot. If so, and if he is trying to get people around Elliot to lower their defenses, then would still acting to get Elliot killed. His clarification of his vow occurred after he had already vowed once, so the clarification should have been a violation of his first vow, shouldn't it? OTOH, if he's just acting so that he doesn't get blamed when the abomination does something, then it wouldn't be a violation. It also wouldn't be a violation if he doesn't think that the abomination could kill Elliot. That's probably the most likely case, IMO.

But that was a lie. The immortals watching Elliot won't be distracted by an attack on Raven. Well, not necessarily anyways. I'm not sure what Voltaire is hoping for, but I think he's trying to prevent Magnus from being 'born'. So this may be a play to kill Sirlock so that Magnus has no support in the mortal world anymore.

[John Campbell]

She is still the immortal that marked Dex without his consent. Not to mention everyone else she marked without their consent, including of course Rhoda, who almost got herself killed because of it. "Sure, you're a serial molester, but at least you aren't also an attempted murderer, except the time when you were" is not much of a downgrade of evil.

Rhoda didn't almost get killed because of her mark. She almost got killed because she was wandering around unarmed and helpless in a wild boar's territory. Rhoda's mark saved her, albeit rather counterintuitively.

[Vinyadan]

Rhoda didn't almost get killed because of her mark. She almost got killed because she was wandering around unarmed and helpless in a wild boar's territory. Rhoda's mark saved her, albeit rather counterintuitively.

Which is actually pretty weird, I have often been in wild boar territory, alone and unarmed, and never been attacked. We have a lot of boars around, and I only know of two circumstances in which they were dangerous: once a probably sick boar attacked a person in his garden and then also attacked the forest guard who came to put it down, and then boars are quite aggressive towards cyclists, so there can occasionally be a hog running after a bike. Otherwise, they rather avoid humans, and come during the night to places where there are humans during the day to dig for truffles.

Rhoda was incredibly unlucky, for that one boar to be aggressive to her.

[eschmenk]

But that was a lie. The immortals watching Elliot won't be distracted by an attack on Raven. Well, not necessarily anyways. I'm not sure what Voltaire is hoping for, but I think he's trying to prevent Magnus from being 'born'. So this may be a play to kill Sirlock so that Magnus has no support in the mortal world anymore.

Yes, of course it was a lie, but it's a lie that may have put Elliot in danger and could conceivably result in his death. As I said, I don't think it's likely, but it's still plausible that it was meant as another attempt at Elliot's life. Voltaire could have already arranged for some distraction for the two forgetful immortals that we don't know about yet or may be planning a distraction that he has rationalized won't count as an attempt on Elliot. Or maybe he thinks Sirlock was overestimating the capabilities of the two forgetful immortals and thinks they won't be able to stop Sirlock even if they aren't distracted. He did tip off Sirlock about Mr. Raven being a son of an immortal, and that might have been intended to allow Sirlock to distract Pandora, who probably would have been the most formidable eternal Sirlock could run into. Even if not, at the very least, I think Voltaire was up to something underhanded during his recent visit.

Voltaire's goal for operation CM (complicated mess) is apparently unchanged from what it was for Plan A (Plan A = killing Elliot via Dex or the griffon). It's hard to see how Plan A would have had anything to do with Magnus Sirlock. I don't know what else it would be, though. Edit: OK, upon rereading old stuff, I was reminded that Magnus wanted Ellen to try to zap Elliot, and she wouldn't try that if Elliot was dead, but that has nothing to do with Sirlock. So unless the overall goal was just "Inconvenience Magnus somehow, but it doesn't matter how," it wouldn't be the same goal. And that would be a really weird goal, if it was that.

[Forum Explorer]

Yes, of course it was a lie, but it's a lie that may have put Elliot in danger and could conceivably result in his death. As I said, I don't think it's likely, but it's still plausible that it was meant as another attempt at Elliot's life. Voltaire could have already arranged for some distraction for the two forgetful immortals that we don't know about yet or may be planning a distraction that he has rationalized won't count as an attempt on Elliot. Or maybe he thinks Sirlock was overestimating the capabilities of the two forgetful immortals and thinks they won't be able to stop Sirlock even if they aren't distracted. He did tip off Sirlock about Mr. Raven being a son of an immortal, and that might have been intended to allow Sirlock to distract Pandora, who probably would have been the most formidable eternal Sirlock could run into. Even if not, at the very least, I think Voltaire was up to something underhanded during his recent visit.

Voltaire's goal for operation CM (complicated mess) is apparently unchanged from what it was for Plan A (Plan A = killing Elliot via Dex or the griffon). It's hard to see how Plan A would have had anything to do with Magnus Sirlock. I don't know what else it would be, though. Edit: OK, upon rereading old stuff, I was reminded that Magnus wanted Ellen to try to zap Elliot, and she wouldn't try that if Elliot was dead, but that has nothing to do with Sirlock. So unless the overall goal was just "Inconvenience Magnus somehow, but it doesn't matter how," it wouldn't be the same goal. And that would be a really weird goal, if it was that.

We know Magnus's plan depends on Sirlock. Which, actually might be the problem. It's been hinted that Sirlock is planning on double crossing Magnus, and stealing his new body for his own. Which might give Sirlock access to all of Magnus' abilities (maybe). That would be the sort of bad thing that an immortal would kill to prevent.

[Dane]

Grace: I'm on Sarah.

Yeah, I've read that fan-fic...

[Mith]

I know this will likely come out messily (especially if Sarah's new ability is kept secret from Verres for a DRAMATIC REVEAL!), but I personally hope that while this messy situation will be dangerous, this will be different in that the core group can pitch together and sort it out. In terms of arcs, I see this as something of a middle of a story, where the heroes are starting to come into their own. So while they will make mistakes, they are still a lot more competent then earlier stories.

My concern is that there is the potential for the current secret keeping to blow up in their face and prove Mr. Verres right (as well as being a huge blow). I hope that it comes off as a happy middle.

[halfeye]

Spoiler: new comic

Show

I hope Sarah does awaken through doing this.

[Felius]

Okay, so in universe predicted time until the problem is solved is one week. What will that be in real life time? An year? Two?

[Vinyadan]

Probably longer, we still have a couple of dates in the meantime.

[Professor Gnoll]

Probably longer, we still have a couple of dates in the meantime.

If there's one thing Dan is yet to learn, it's brevity. I tend to get the feeling that he overthinks what the audience needs to know- as indicated in many of the commentaries. He'll think, 'what if the audience wonders about this?', and then write an entire strip to alleviate that one possible question, and then spin off that question, until we have four strips of discussing the possible loopholes in an oath that doesn't actually matter. If the strip would spend a little less time explaining and a little more time doing, we wouldn't have to wait a year for an afternoon to pass.

[Mith]

I sometimes wish that Dan had an editor, since I would think a sounding board would really help him out with sorting out what to write.

[Professor Gnoll]

I sometimes wish that Dan had an editor, since I would think a sounding board would really help him out with sorting out what to write.

I think a good editor would be a massive help. Someone with a good eye for what's necessary could cut out the chaff and keep the good ideas.

[eschmenk]

Okay, so in universe predicted time until the problem is solved is one week. What will that be in real life time? An year? Two?

The thing is that Dan is aware of the problem, but hasn't found the solution. Actually, as he pointed out, one day in comic took about one year and four months, so a week lasting only a year or two might be wildly optimistic. (I think this is yet another example of an attempt at hyperbole falling short around here.)

Dan said that he was going to try to plan better, but he still seems to be having trouble with his planning. On top of that, I agree that having an editor, or at least test readers, might help. Dan's problem isn't just that he over-explains things. Sometimes he under-explains one thing while over-explaining other things, then he has to do retroactive damage control, then he over-compensates to try to keep it from happening again. He really seems to need help in understanding how readers would understand the comic, which is probably a fairly tricky skill to develop.

But, of course, there is a trade-off. If he spent more time story-boarding and revising and tightening, it would probably help his quality, but hurt his output. At a minimum, he would probably have to drop the EGS:NP stuff.

[Vinyadan]

Does anyone else think that the rampaging monster that killed Pandora's husband might have been the original one for which the diamond was created?

[Professor Gnoll]

But, of course, there is a trade-off. If he spent more time story-boarding and revising and tightening, it would probably help his quality, but hurt his output. At a minimum, he would probably have to drop the EGS:NP stuff.

I'm not aware of the exact situation around Patreon and the NP comics (though I assume they're part of the promises made to backers?), but I would be just fine with dropping EGS:NP. It's either rambling explanations, elements that should be in the main comic in the first place, or vignettes of characters I can't really bring myself to care about (I'm finding the current Catalina and Rhoda story less than interesting). It's occasionally funny, but I'd happily lose that for a better thought-out main story. Is this drawn-out explanation of a throwaway gag really as important as a coherent story for the part that actually matters? I tend to think not.

[Mith]

Does anyone else think that the rampaging monster that killed Pandora's husband might have been the original one for which the diamond was created?

Should I tweet this at Dan to see if this becomes at least retroactive Cannon?