EMPIRE! CWBG XIV: To Heir is Human - To Faith 10, Divine

[BladeofObliviom]

I don't have the time to really get into this conversation, but I'll address a couple of points that are relevant to my stuff.

Thus I wonder if perhaps the "-Guard" families weren't from a variety of different races not just Cloudiz with the modern Cloudiz families emulating them but being more like Chinese Emperor's tracing their legitimacy back to a mystical figure. It would make more sense I think for Voidguard to have been tiefling (I am also grooming a small pet theory that the Varinel line in the Heartwaste may have been an offshoot from the Voidguard line as well)

I've been playing with the idea that the Tieflin/Tieflings are not truly Berapi as they've been categorized by Phrenologists/Biologists/Surgeons IC, but something twisted by Demonic/Bale-forces, so this would be basically consistent with my narrative.

In any case, I think whatever the nature of the fae and their relationship with humans, the berapi probably lie on the "human" side of the line (especially since the Itzli Berapi are explicitly described as being originally humans who developed such a resistance): like the beastfolk, perhaps creations of the fae but not fae themselves.

I'm inclined to agree that the categorization of Berapi as fae is likely more cultural posturing by Glazfell than reality, a la folks in the actual medieval period claiming descent from Rome.

[Morph Bark]

I like the idea of the Zoku consisting of multiple races, but there is one problem. The Zoku are very much linked with their element and purpose and is handed down the generations genetically. Cloudiz cannot breed with any other race other than other Fae, which excludes the berapi (I think) and the Menhirin. Even if it did work, I can't really think of a reason that all Zoku are now Cloudiz if we go that route.

I think it makes perfect sense considering the way Cloudiz genetics seem to work. If (some of) the Zoku were originally non-Cloudiz, all you would need is for at least one Cloudiz to marry into the family at some point, and their descendants would be Cloudizblooded. As far as I remember, in Ashmarism-dominant regions, full-blooded Cloudiz can breed with people who aren't Cloudiz or Cloudiz-blooded and conceived fertile offspring (depending on the other race involved, but humans, berapi and elves/fae were all fine), which allows for Cloudiz-blooded to exist. With the Cloudiz traits becoming once again dominant in more recent times, the Zoku were turned into Cloudiz families rather than their original race's.

If the original Waterguards were Frosten, for example, they could have married other races after the Cataclysm (because there weren't many Frosten left, maybe), among which were Cloudiz-blooded humans. With only a few Frosten and a lot of Cloudiz-blooded, over time, the Waterguards became completely consistent of Cloudiz-blooded humans. Then, once full-blooded Cloudiz once again began to be born in Kasumor, the Waterguards became an actual Cloudiz family.

Originally, I had it as a 2000 mile radius explosion, so maybe that would have been better. I'll change it back to it's original form.

Keep in mind that the tip of Genivana to the middle of Celero's coast is roughly 1000 miles. Also keep in mind the difference between radius and diameter. (A 2000 mile radius explosion would cover 80% of Telluris--if it were flat.)

As to effect I guess the principal question is over whether the Cataclysm itself killed everyone, rather suddenly in the space of an afternoon, or whether the large-scale deaths that resulted from it globally were actually from starvation (or the like) post-Cataclysm and took place over the course of several years or decades. To an extent, both are possible, in that it might have killed everyone locally (which would perhaps explain why, despite their associations with old Faedas, there are no berapi in Kasumor or most of the immediately neighbouring regions) but had a more lingering effect elsewhere, rather like a major volcanic eruption.

[...]

I guess it is also possible that it wasn't the only Cataclysm, and there might have been simultaneous events elsewhere that were enabled by the global build-up of energy or other handwaved magical stuff - things such as the destruction of Old Guilder, the obscure cultural Niskan apocalypse, the Sharixian dragonslaying, and the like - which could have occurred in isolation from an IC perspective but with a degree of interconnectedness supernaturally (thus explaining the global effects of the Cataclysm). That's speculative though and it might be that the timelines just don't work depending on what people had in mind for such origin stories.

I agree. I think the Tzaltec history also mentions the Cataclysm, but as being a series of volcanic eruptions in Tzalteclan. The (Old) Imperium's history so far hasn't had explicit mention of a Cataclysm event, but it could be a cause of the lost contact between the West and East--or it could've been something more natural after all.

This ties into something else which has given me pause once or twice in the past, not least when I was trying to work out the interrelationships between the different fae: what are the fae? In my experience, fey in a fantasy world are often natives of a slightly different plane of existence to the conventional (whether it's called Faerie or the Feywild or whatever), creatures of magic not quite "of this world", and in settings which purport whether semi-seriously or with a wink and nod to be associated with real-world history generally the disappearance of fey and magic are interlinked, for whatever reason.

This doesn't seem to be the case on Telluris, where the various fae peoples are just as at home on Telluris as they would be anywhere else, and with no suggestion (that I recall seeing, at least) that any of them have come from anywhere other than somewhere else on this world. This may not necessarily be the case but it is the way things currently appear, and it has implications for their history and development. Essentially, if "fae" are, as is conventional, something from "elsewhere", they're kind of like demons (in any case probably Outsiders, in D&D terms) and their diversity and, in places, apparent unrelatedness, is fairly easily explicable: in this interpretation "fae" isn't a name for a genus or order or anything, and is more analogous to "alien". Any contradictions and oddities in their nature, including ability (or inability) to reproduce with humans, can thus be handwaved away fairly easily.

[...]

Or it could be something completely off the wall, like the ur-fae were shapeshifters who post-Cataclysm got locked into their current forms by the magical energies unleashed, and are now limited to change generation-by-generation through mutation and interbreeding, which might explain their apparent ability to evolve and adapt more quickly than conventional species. (The Magkrull and Formor might bear inspection there, given that the latter were reportedly shapeshifters, and the Magkrull still are. One could even look at the Tzaltec dragons, if so minded).

Fae could well come from another plane entirely, like the Wyld, at least originally. Ur-fae being shapeshifters could also make sense, especially since the only shapeshifters we now have or have stories of in legend are aquatic species, which may have been spared from whatever magical energies came free during the Cataclysm.

Having all fae have a common ancestor without also having the other plane or shapeshifter business wouldn't make sense, I don't think. Fae are rather all over the place in patches, and are in quite a large variety of forms and sizes.

[WaylanderX]

I think it makes perfect sense considering the way Cloudiz genetics seem to work. If (some of) the Zoku were originally non-Cloudiz, all you would need is for at least one Cloudiz to marry into the family at some point, and their descendants would be Cloudizblooded. As far as I remember, in Ashmarism-dominant regions, full-blooded Cloudiz can breed with people who aren't Cloudiz or Cloudiz-blooded and conceived fertile offspring (depending on the other race involved, but humans, berapi and elves/fae were all fine), which allows for Cloudiz-blooded to exist. With the Cloudiz traits becoming once again dominant in more recent times, the Zoku were turned into Cloudiz families rather than their original race's.

If the original Waterguards were Frosten, for example, they could have married other races after the Cataclysm (because there weren't many Frosten left, maybe), among which were Cloudiz-blooded humans. With only a few Frosten and a lot of Cloudiz-blooded, over time, the Waterguards became completely consistent of Cloudiz-blooded humans. Then, once full-blooded Cloudiz once again began to be born in Kasumor, the Waterguards became an actual Cloudiz family.

Humans cannot breed with a full-blood Cloudiz the way the fluff is written at the moment. Only Fae are fine. Originally, the Cloudiz-blooded humans were a miracle done after the Cataclysm to perserve the Cloudiz over time, for they carried Ashmar's divine essence (the elements of water and air).

And like I said, Frosten do not work for Waterguard. I differentiate between Ice and Water for these purposes. I want Waterguard to also stand for the liquid state of matter, so Ice can't do.

I myself am rather doubting about the whole race thing, but if we can cooperatively find a good and most importantly fun/interesting explanation, I'll also take that as my own head-canon.

[Reggiejam]

I think it makes perfect sense considering the way Cloudiz genetics seem to work. If (some of) the Zoku were originally non-Cloudiz, all you would need is for at least one Cloudiz to marry into the family at some point, and their descendants would be Cloudizblooded. As far as I remember, in Ashmarism-dominant regions, full-blooded Cloudiz can breed with people who aren't Cloudiz or Cloudiz-blooded and conceived fertile offspring (depending on the other race involved, but humans, berapi and elves/fae were all fine), which allows for Cloudiz-blooded to exist. With the Cloudiz traits becoming once again dominant in more recent times, the Zoku were turned into Cloudiz families rather than their original race's.

If the original Waterguards were Frosten, for example, they could have married other races after the Cataclysm (because there weren't many Frosten left, maybe), among which were Cloudiz-blooded humans. With only a few Frosten and a lot of Cloudiz-blooded, over time, the Waterguards became completely consistent of Cloudiz-blooded humans. Then, once full-blooded Cloudiz once again began to be born in Kasumor, the Waterguards became an actual Cloudiz family.

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking in regards to the modern -Guards being Cloudiz but the original -Guards possibly being other races.

As to the Fae conundrum, I'm not really sure it really is too terribly broad if we allow some culling and "from on high" classification differentiation. Eseentially, afaik we have 2 explicit Fae races which couldn't be anything else (though as I type this a theory occurs to me I will expound on momentarily) That is the "elven fae" and the Cloudiz since we're throwing out the Berapi as Fae and instead their being humans adapted to things to the extreme.

My personal headcanon that I think is somewhat accepted is that Ancient Faedin messed around with "genetics" to use a scientific term and advancing animal races to sentience. I know it was posited that races like the Sympol, and catfolk, and werekin, and the other beast races were created to serve their Fae masters. I imagine much the same could be said for the frogfolk of Corriach even as a foray into aquatic stuff. So that's beastfolk addressed (yes there are some issues with the Minotines in the south although it seems the Zheisi of Meiterdon may have carried on some Faedin practices after fleeing south leading to their creation and the Favn in the West but I wonder if they aren't just their own thing)

Now a weird/crazy idea I just had as I was typing things up was perhaps all of Faedin's messing around with genetics/magic/etc. was leading up to creating the Cloudiz, not as a subservient race like the rest, but as a sort of 'ascendance' Cloudiz writings write about how great and wonderful they are, beautiful beyond compare, etc. etc. and they possess such a diverse and strange biology (wings, tails, gills) they seem like they could be the end result of trying to create a superior form. They also have an intense genetic thing that can remain dormant and then activate and dominate other genetics which screams sci-fi bioengineering. Perhaps they're written about so glowingly and revered so in Kasumor because they were supposed to the apotheosis of the Fae, ascending from their natural 'elven form' to something capable of more (again, they can live in any terrain) They were meant to be the step towards the fae empire becoming something more (no doubt an idea resisted by some, etc. etc.) The Berapi may also be a preliminary or contemporary attempt of the same though I'm thinking preliminary as they are closer to human and I've always imagined the Fae Empire not really even considering the humans running around to be any better than the animals they were experimenting on.

I dunno. Interesting theory perhaps?

EDIT: The Frosten was just an example, not to get hung up on. It may be the original -Guards were all 'elven fae' with some moving on to the 'Cloudiz project' Plus like I said above if the Cloudiz were intended to be a sort of Fae final form it would make sense they couldn't breed with the "animalistic" humans and only pre-Cloudiz Fae would be able to breed with them to have "ascended" children.

EDIT2: This conflict over the future of the fae race could have also been a catalyst for "purists" to flee south, west, etc. leading to the "fae bloods" of the Nizkans, Jarrs, Dekboards, etc.

[Aedilred]

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking in regards to the modern -Guards being Cloudiz but the original -Guards possibly being other races.

As to the Fae conundrum, I'm not really sure it really is too terribly broad if we allow some culling and "from on high" classification differentiation. Eseentially, afaik we have 2 explicit Fae races which couldn't be anything else (though as I type this a theory occurs to me I will expound on momentarily) That is the "elven fae" and the Cloudiz since we're throwing out the Berapi as Fae and instead their being humans adapted to things to the extreme.

...

Now a weird/crazy idea I just had as I was typing things up was perhaps all of Faedin's messing around with genetics/magic/etc. was leading up to creating the Cloudiz, not as a subservient race like the rest, but as a sort of 'ascendance' Cloudiz writings write about how great and wonderful they are, beautiful beyond compare, etc. etc. and they possess such a diverse and strange biology (wings, tails, gills) they seem like they could be the end result of trying to create a superior form. They also have an intense genetic thing that can remain dormant and then activate and dominate other genetics which screams sci-fi bioengineering. Perhaps they're written about so glowingly and revered so in Kasumor because they were supposed to the apotheosis of the Fae, ascending from their natural 'elven form' to something capable of more (again, they can live in any terrain) They were meant to be the step towards the fae empire becoming something more (no doubt an idea resisted by some, etc. etc.) ...

Classification is really up to the players who created the fae in question, I suppose. Reclassification of the harpies wouldn't cause me any lost sleep, as it could just be that they're "beastfolk" who've forgotten their origins (albeit if using a broad classification of fae I think they fit better there). The Cervidh, Homirum and Favn all have animal features (as do the Felcath, although iirc they are now essentially a subtype of the Sycian catfolk) but I imagine there was a reason Rain pegged the Favn and Cervidh at least as fae rather than beastfolk (edit: forgot that the Favn were Kitsanth's creation rather than Rain's). The Karranan and Ascala are, by my understanding, more similar to the conventionally humanlike fae than to anything else around, and it's debatable whether the Sindar are actually fae at all given their origin story. The Quill are, if I understand Murgen correctly, essentially a stable Cloudiz-blooded human strain.

Part of the reason I took a look at the fae last year was because it seemed they had become a bit of a garbage-bin taxon in which things got lumped without a second thought and this is also possibly the reason why they have become quite so diverse as they have. Leaving aside the Huroshan fae and harpies for a moment though they do seem to fall fairly broadly into two categories: those which are essentially pretty similar to humans in appearance but are more colourful and/or pointy (again, not sure about the Ascala) and those with ruminant features. It shouldn't be too hard to get those to work in isolation no matter how widespread they are.

The Maighdeann and Carrachan are more difficult though. The Maighdeann I guess could be explained as a kind of "Cloudiz prototype" which ended up fully aquatic (and indeed I provisionally classified them as closer to the Cloudiz than anything else); the Carrachan on the other hand are so different from everything else though they don't neatly fit anywhere.

I guess one of the other things which emerged from the discussions on beastfolk last year is that the majority of "beastfolk" types seem to be mammalian, with the lizardfolk being their own thing. That does leave the harpies and Carrachan looking a bit awkward if they are beastfolk, but there are also flightless birdmen in Indica and Galomyr as yet unaccounted for origin-wise.

"Cloudiz ascendant" is an interesting idea, although it does go back down the supremacist path again. That could be addressed perhaps, as you suggest, by applying the "multiple cultures" filter again, if the Cloudiz were the product of such "improvement" in one of the Faedas culture/empires, but not one necessarily universally adopted or accepted, whether as a direction or as an improvement. Indeed, that some of the fae in one of these hypothetical societies decided that it would be a great idea for everyone to grow fish-tails and gills might have been the cause of one of the splits.

In such a situation though and one where all fae have a common origin there were probably a number of "sunderings" with some being very ancient and happening even before the start of Way's new timeline, unless the Niskan/Favn/Cervidh origin story is rather more recent and rather more geographically displaced than seems to be the case: unless Kitsanth/Rain really wanted to revise that substantially I think they would need to have split off a lot further up the road of development. But that in turn might help to explain why they have accrued features that the other fae haven't.

(Of course, anything decided will only last as long as it takes a new player to join the game and create wasp elves or something )

[Logic]

Humans cannot breed with a full-blood Cloudiz the way the fluff is written at the moment. Only Fae are fine. Originally, the Cloudiz-blooded humans were a miracle done after the Cataclysm to perserve the Cloudiz over time, for they carried Ashmar's divine essence (the elements of water and air).

I'm slightly disappointed in the absolutism of this statement. I had it in my head cannon that Rion Noth and Nylanna Earthguard of Kasumor had dozens of children. Unless we rule the Celerii are different enough from baseline human that such a pairings of Celerii and Cloudiz could or would produce viable offspring.

[zabbarot]

On Balewhatevers
We've had two officially. They were both animals(in my opinion at least) a frog, and a fish(catfish even ) The first went on a wild rampage destroying things and eating people, then probably settled back down to sleep was slain. The second was much more subtle, but also seemed to make a goal of eating people.

Then we have the ones we've joked about or hinted at, which all suggest that baleanimals are based on existing animals.

So my thoughts are that balecreatures are all failed gods of their respective species, or being who've died but were too powerful to go down easily. It sort of draws on the vestiges from Tome of Magic. Perhaps at one point they were a danger and Kina took them away to the 'Baleplane'. I'd assume their opinions of every living thing on Telluris range from jealousy to hatred.

Bonus! Tin Foil Hat Theory.
Fae are balemen. D:

[Rain Dragon]

This ties into something else which has given me pause once or twice in the past, not least when I was trying to work out the interrelationships between the different fae: what are the fae? In my experience, fey in a fantasy world are often natives of a slightly different plane of existence to the conventional (whether it's called Faerie or the Feywild or whatever), creatures of magic not quite "of this world", and in settings which purport whether semi-seriously or with a wink and nod to be associated with real-world history generally the disappearance of fey and magic are interlinked, for whatever reason.

This doesn't seem to be the case on Telluris, where the various fae peoples are just as at home on Telluris as they would be anywhere else, and with no suggestion (that I recall seeing, at least) that any of them have come from anywhere other than somewhere else on this world. This may not necessarily be the case but it is the way things currently appear, and it has implications for their history and development. Essentially, if "fae" are, as is conventional, something from "elsewhere", they're kind of like demons (in any case probably Outsiders, in D&D terms) and their diversity and, in places, apparent unrelatedness, is fairly easily explicable: in this interpretation "fae" isn't a name for a genus or order or anything, and is more analogous to "alien". Any contradictions and oddities in their nature, including ability (or inability) to reproduce with humans, can thus be handwaved away fairly easily.

I did a writeup of An Náduri Paganism, which implies (though I'm treating this as canon) that the Cervidh originated from much nearer where the Deities live and are all over the place.

What's never been mentioned is why Cervidh die. They don't seem to age. This is because they're not native to Telluris and after a time their spirits end up being dragged back to where they originally came. As to why they're on Telluris and why they ended up on Telluris and all that, I haven't properly written and would prefer to wait on writing until I have everything about that in order.

I hope this helps.

Classification is really up to the players who created the fae in question, I suppose. Reclassification of the harpies wouldn't cause me any lost sleep, as it could just be that they're "beastfolk" who've forgotten their origins (albeit if using a broad classification of fae I think they fit better there). The Cervidh, Homirum and Favn all have animal features (as do the Felcath, although iirc they are now essentially a subtype of the Sycian catfolk) but I imagine there was a reason Rain pegged the Favn and Cervidh at least as fae rather than beastfolk (edit: forgot that the Favn were Kitsanth's creation rather than Rain's). The Karranan and Ascala are, by my understanding, more similar to the conventionally humanlike fae than to anything else around, and it's debatable whether the Sindar are actually fae at all given their origin story. The Quill are, if I understand Murgen correctly, essentially a stable Cloudiz-blooded human strain.

In such a situation though and one where all fae have a common origin there were probably a number of "sunderings" with some being very ancient and happening even before the start of Way's new timeline, unless the Niskan/Favn/Cervidh origin story is rather more recent and rather more geographically displaced than seems to be the case: unless Kitsanth/Rain really wanted to revise that substantially I think they would need to have split off a lot further up the road of development. But that in turn might help to explain why they have accrued features that the other fae haven't.

The Cervidh have definitely been on Telluris for longer than Way's timeline, though it's vague as to when and how they ended up on Telluris.
The Cervidh left the Niskan's Ancestors' realm hundreds of years before the Cataclysm up there.

I forget the exact timeline, but there was quite a leadup to the apocalyptic events up there by my understanding.

[WaylanderX]

I'm slightly disappointed in the absolutism of this statement. I had it in my head cannon that Rion Noth and Nylanna Earthguard of Kasumor had dozens of children. Unless we rule the Celerii are different enough from baseline human that such a pairings of Celerii and Cloudiz could or would produce viable offspring.

Full Blood Cloudiz cannot mate with humans, Cloudiz-blooded can.

So you can have your dozens of children, but they won't be a full-blood.

EDIT: To clarify, in Kasumor's cannon, all Cloudiz went extinct, leaving no Cloudiz blood whatsoever. However, because of a Miracle, small amounts of Cloudiz blood were introduced to the human population that fled in time and returned to Kasumor. This Cloudiz-blood thickened over the ages, to the point were Full-blood Cloudiz resurfaced (around the year 430 the first one did).

However, like I said, if we find a canon/origin story that is more compelling/fun, we can take that as the headcanon for Faedin/Cloudiz/Zoku. As long as you don't touch me PROWESS! (Prowess mine....Prreecciioouus....)

[Kitsanth]

(albeit earlier cataclysms might have been located elsewhere, such as in the Great Desert)

I guess it is also possible that it wasn't the only Cataclysm, and there might have been simultaneous events elsewhere that were enabled by the global build-up of energy or other handwaved magical stuff - things such as the destruction of Old Guilder, the obscure cultural Niskan apocalypse, the Sharixian dragonslaying, and the like - which could have occurred in isolation from an IC perspective but with a degree of interconnectedness supernaturally (thus explaining the global effects of the Cataclysm). That's speculative though and it might be that the timelines just don't work depending on what people had in mind for such origin stories.

In such a situation though and one where all fae have a common origin there were probably a number of "sunderings" with some being very ancient and happening even before the start of Way's new timeline, unless the Niskan/Favn/Cervidh origin story is rather more recent and rather more geographically displaced than seems to be the case: unless Kitsanth/Rain really wanted to revise that substantially I think they would need to have split off a lot further up the road of development. But that in turn might help to explain why they have accrued features that the other fae haven't.

^ some relevant quotes

Sometime after joining this game, I realised the Niskovian backstory would be easier to justify if I claimed that it occurred a long time before and far away from the places and times mentioned in the already established happenings. And so I came up with the following;

At least two millennia before the Year 0 Cataclysm much of the west was controlled by an expansionist Empire ruled by beings who possessed both great beauty and great magical talents. Eventually a time came when they were unable to defend their vast territory from the many peoples they had pissed off over the centuries, as their magic was failing (after the failure of their attempt to gain immortality by destroying the afterlife they had tied their life essence to the land's life essence and over time reckless magic use ran that reservoir dry and caused the land to eventually become barren... (the conveniently located western desert gave me the idea)).

A few people who upon realising where things were going fled the Empire. These people would eventually become the Niskans. And other separate groups the Favn and the Homirum (for reasons of convenience I have retconned the Homirum as a different cultural/ethnic variant of Favn due to the similarities of their descriptions) also fled the Empire around similar points of time.

As for why there is little trace of this Empire... it is likely that their enemies utterly destroyed all traces of it they could find, so as to prevent a second rise and suchlike.

And then we come to the Year 0 Cataclysm that seems to have had great effect on the Central North area of Telluris; I have been working from the theory that this event (whatever it may have been) had very little effect on Niskovia. This is because the Steppe is separated from the Central North area by a rather large and prominent series of mountain ranges (unless Elemental suddenly decides differently which would contradict long-standing fluff regarding most of his own regions).



And regarding the issue of 'What are Fae?', I'll be sticking to the classification system the Niskans use.

[Aedilred]

Kasa, I notice you're dedicating an action to deploy the Hospitallers every round even when they're not actually being deployed (like this round). There's no reason why you can't do this, but if there's no need to send them anywhere (if there are no wars on in a given round, for instance) you can use that action for something else or more interesting: you don't have to use an agent every round if there's nothing for them to do.

Sometime after joining this game, I realised the Niskovian backstory would be easier to justify if I claimed that it occurred a long time before and far away from the places and times mentioned in the already established happenings. And so I came up with the following;

At least two millennia before the Year 0 Cataclysm much of the west was controlled by an expansionist Empire ruled by beings who possessed both great beauty and great magical talents. Eventually a time came when they were unable to defend their vast territory from the many peoples they had pissed off over the centuries, as their magic was failing (after the failure of their attempt to gain immortality by destroying the afterlife they had tied their life essence to the land's life essence and over time reckless magic use ran that reservoir dry and caused the land to eventually become barren... (the conveniently located western desert gave me the idea)).

A few people who upon realising where things were going fled the Empire. These people would eventually become the Niskans. And other separate groups the Favn and the Homirum (for reasons of convenience I have retconned the Homirum as a different cultural/ethnic variant of Favn due to the similarities of their descriptions) also fled the Empire around similar points of time.

As for why there is little trace of this Empire... it is likely that their enemies utterly destroyed all traces of it they could find, so as to prevent a second rise and suchlike.

Interesting.

And regarding the issue of 'What are Fae?', I'll be sticking to the classification system the Niskans use.

Fae, Faeblood, Humans, Elves, and Other? (In which "Elves =/= central continent elves")

As this discussion has gone on and as I've mentioned to a couple of people privately, I have started to like the idea that the fae did originate from somewhere else. Long before the start of any of our timelines, most likely (save possibly the Raaneki and Menhirin ones) and they might well have changed in some ways since their arrival, but that there is something about them which is identifiably different to the "mundane" natives (even if interbreeding has left a large proportion of the humans with some trace of fae ancestry). I don't know how popular this idea would be but I'll explore it for a minute anyway.

Thus far in Tellurian "cosmology" I think we have three identified "planes" (or "realms" if we prefer): Telluris itself, the Anga Lingine, and the Bale realm. The first is where all our characters live (except Mosi); the second is the spirit world, either an afterlife or a sort of waiting room for the afterlife; little is known about the third save that it's home to horrors. Most PC magic (and fae tend to be magical in some way shape or form) seems to originate from the Anga Lingine or beyond, although the creatures of the Bale realm are clearly supernatural (or at least, the two we've seen have been).

If the fae came from somewhere other than one of those two (and the spirit realm would probably be inappropriate) we'd have to wonder about why we've seen no evidence of it so far. So conjecture:

1. The fae realm exists but is no longer accessible (possibly connected to the Cataclysm(s)).
2. The fae realm exists and is still accessible but the fae have forgotten how to return there.
3. It takes a certain concentration of (secular) magic to open portals to the fae realm and this has yet to happen in recorded history, even though some groups are aware it's a theoretical possibility.
4. Portals to the fae realm are in fact right under our noses but we can't see them/reach them (the poles?)
5. The fae realm no longer exists and was destroyed: the fae fled to Telluris to escape its destruction.
6. The fae realm was at some point superimposed on top of Telluris and they are no longer distinguishable.
7. Telluris is the fae realm and humans/dwarves/goblins/etc. are the invaders.
8. The fae realm is now the Bale plane; the fae got out before it was turned into the realm of nightmares (see also #5)
9. The fae realm is and always was the Bale plane; the fae are just the humanoid inhabitants thereof who have colonised Telluris.*

The existence of a fae realm separate from the AL in any case (whether or not it is coterminous with the Bale plane) would help to explain some of the supernatural but not religiously-connected resources found around the place.

*On this one, the creatures we've seen so far have been rather larger than their mundane equivalents and rather more horrifying, whereas the fae themselves generally are not (ymmv as concerns some of them, I guess). But it's possible that comparing them to mundane creatures is missing the point: aboleths/Watchers are not actually catfish and just bear a passing similarity in some respects; it is likely the same goes for the balefrog; our nicknaming them such is just trying to make sense of what is fundamentally an aberration. Also, we've only seen two bale-creatures to date (unless I've missed some) so it's hardly a large sample size to be making judgments.

[Rain Dragon]

So, my thoughts on where the Cervidh come from...

In my An Náduri Paganism writeup, the major Deities hang out in 'the Core'. 'Around'* the Core is the Spirit World. 'Around' the Spirit World is an afterlife. 'Around' this afterlife is a vast swathe of space affected by being so close to the Core, which is where the Cervidh would have come from.

Why they're on Telluris, how, etc. I still haven't worded properly.

Furthermore in this is that Voids are dotted around the place and at the very edge of everything are some more afterlifes. Beyond them is nothingness and a little bit of Primordial Material.

Also of course note that not every religion has to be right, so this could be all wrong, but I'd prefer it if this was at least not outright disproven in the case of the Cervidh in character. <-- This sentence isn't relevant anymore.

*Space isn't that straightforward, it's just easier to think of this way.

[Kasanip]

Kasa, I notice you're dedicating an action to deploy the Hospitallers every round even when they're not actually being deployed (like this round). There's no reason why you can't do this, but if there's no need to send them anywhere (if there are no wars on in a given round, for instance) you can use that action for something else or more interesting: you don't have to use an agent every round if there's nothing for them to do.

Thank you for advice!
Even if International Red Cross action is seen as meaningless and boring, always they must do their best. Therefore similar International Hospitalers such an action will happen.

Actually it was thought to stop such an action because of new ruler. However, current situation already is so bitter. No other action is interesting, I think. If such a heroic action was to stop, probably there is no point to continue to play.

[Aedilred]

Thank you for advice!
Even if International Red Cross action is seen as meaningless and boring, always they must do their best. Therefore similar International Hospitalers such an action will happen.

Actually it was thought to stop such an action because of new ruler. However, current situation already is so bitter. No other action is interesting, I think. If such a heroic action was to stop, probably there is no point to continue to play.

I wasn't suggesting the Hospitallers should stop their activities. It's more that if they're not going to have any (mechanical) effect in a given round: i.e. if they're being deployed for fluff purposes only, you could probably do that as a non-action and use that designated action for something else. You could still reserve an action for Hospitaller-related activities but it wouldn't have to be deployment every round: you could use a F5 action to set up a Hospitaller "holy order" chapter-house in your regions (or even a foreign one), for example. Or a Curiosity action to have them conduct research into medicine, or a Military action to improve their efficiency or help build a military hospital, or the like.

It's great that you're playing the Chivalric Republic in line with the fluff, and I don't want to discourage that, but you don't have to handicap yourself and waste an action and so miss out on doing other interesting things if in a given round the Hospitallers aren't going to have a mechanical effect.

[Kasanip]

I wasn't suggesting the Hospitallers should stop their activities. It's more that if they're not going to have any (mechanical) effect in a given round: i.e. if they're being deployed for fluff purposes only, you could probably do that as a non-action and use that designated action for something else. You could still reserve an action for Hospitaller-related activities but it wouldn't have to be deployment every round: you could use a F5 action to set up a Hospitaller "holy order" chapter-house in your regions (or even a foreign one), for example. Or a Curiosity action to have them conduct research into medicine, or a Military action to improve their efficiency or help build a military hospital, or the like.

It's great that you're playing the Chivalric Republic in line with the fluff, and I don't want to discourage that, but you don't have to handicap yourself and waste an action and so miss out on doing other interesting things if in a given round the Hospitallers aren't going to have a mechanical effect.

Thank you for advice! They are some interesting advices. I hope it can be used.
However, current situation is untenable of these ideas. Current situation of the Chivalric Republic of the United Free Cities is disliked very much by me. Even if it is thought about, it is distasteful to write about destroying the accomplishments I have very much enjoyed. To be honest, it can't be though about enjoyable roleplay because it must be another player character.

[Rain Dragon]

So...
I've been thinking about leaving AN to become an NPC and going back to playing as Fera instead.
I've talked about it with QB and he said it's okay.

[Aedilred]

So...
I've been thinking about leaving AN to become an NPC and going back to playing as Fera instead.
I've talked about it with QB and he said it's okay.

It'd be a shame to lose the AN as I like them (especially with the Games coming up!) but I can understand wanting to go back to Fera too. Whatever you think would be best for you really.

I seem to remember a while back someone (Quinton?) talking about the idea of people temporarily giving up their "primary" country to take over a NPC to breathe a bit of life into them and help with the world-building, especially if it feels like their primary country doesn't have a lot to do for a while, and just to let people flex different creative muscles. If it can be done without screwing any other players around too much or filling the map up with NPCs (or the risk of new players swooping in and grabbing something you planned to return to in due course) it's probably not a bad idea.

I wouldn't even have an objection, personally, to someone RPing as two different countries for event purposes and the like if it kept them (both the players and the characters) active and engaged, especially where the original player will have a better handle on the characters in question than Quinton/the liege/etc. At least, so long as they weren't taking two full sets of actions: I'd rather see more RP than less even if it requires a bit of a fudge. But that might be more controversial.

[Rain Dragon]

Speaking of, I'd still like to host the games, just in Fera instead of course.

I wouldn't be interested in it, but I think your idea is a good one. As things are now, though, if someone wanted to RP as a Feran at an event I don't mind and I think if one asked, other players would also be open to it.

Is the settings and event ideas thread a suitable place to perhaps put suggestions in for things NPCs could get up to? This could help with writing about something different while potentially world building and helping inspire QB.
How many NPCs does he have now to write fluff for? It is quite a lot, but I also understand if this is a bad idea.

[Aedilred]

Is the settings and event ideas thread a suitable place to perhaps put suggestions in for things NPCs could get up to? This could help with writing about something different while potentially world building and helping inspire QB.
How many NPCs does he have now to write fluff for? It is quite a lot, but I also understand if this is a bad idea.

I think that's quite a good idea, provided nobody was offended their idea didn't get used

We currently have twenty Quinton-run NPCs from what I can tell. A handful of those were created as NPCs (the Warriors of Syivine, the Kells, METAL, the Blazing Temple and the Voreal Kingdom - and at least one of those will/should probably remain NPC in perpetuity); more that used to be player controlled but were abandoned either long ago or were never very active in the first place (the Sulvan Primarchy, Alzeroth, Stolok, Novrania, the Abyssian Sea, Razdis, Pavonia, Kuldran, Trandar, and possibly the Tuvaak); a couple of more active PCs that have relatively recently dropped or been handed over (Crima, Fera/An Nádur, North Lyradis); and a couple that have always been NPC but were player-created (Ahmeskharras, the Niemida Prefecture, the Del-Taihn Provinces).

I guess the NPC vassals are slightly less work as they don't have to fight for position to quite the same extent, although must still require a bit of effort to think up ways for them to foil their lieges' schemes.

[QuintonBeck]

I was actually thinking of mentioning something similar to your idea Rain about shooting me ideas (and using the Setting Events thread is as good a place as any) because I've definitely been feeling a severe drain in being able to be creative with 20 different entities and they've all suffered even ones I might otherwise have ideas for. So yeah, ideas for NPC actions/goals/intrigue are more than welcome to be tossed my way.

EDIT: We have a new Rules and Administration thread here which will be our primary tracking thread. I would like to invite all our players, but especially our newer players to give it a look through and offer feedback on what might make it easier to get through and understand or if anything important is missing or unclear.

[lt_murgen]

I would like to invite all our players, but especially our newer players to give it a look through and offer feedback on what might make it easier to get through and understand or if anything important is missing or unclear.

I would make a note in the Your Ruler- Changing Rulers section to note that new rulers do not need to roll for Luck, and to reference the Luck section for a new ruler's luck score. I'm sure I will have more as I refresh my rules knowledge.

[HalfTangible]

I don't see agents listed anywhere, and Sycia's winning tactic is missing.

[Morph Bark]

HELP

And now that I have your attention, may I please direct it here? I require some help with a school project, and your assistance would be much appreciated!

[QuintonBeck]

I would make a note in the Your Ruler- Changing Rulers section to note that new rulers do not need to roll for Luck, and to reference the Luck section for a new ruler's luck score. I'm sure I will have more as I refresh my rules knowledge.

Thank you Murgen. I've added something to clarify there.

I don't see agents listed anywhere, and Sycia's winning tactic is missing.

I will hopefully get an Agents table updated and over there at some point. As for the winning tactic I advise you to PM Rain about it so he can add it to his table.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Agents are listed in the Rules and Admin thread, and supervised by me. If anyone has any agents they've added, please pm me with:

Agent Name:
Resource or Great Project it is based on:
What the +2 Bonus is:
Keyword:
Round You Established it:

[PepperP.]

Agents are listed in the Rules and Admin thread, and supervised by me. If anyone has any agents they've added, please pm me with:

Agent Name:
Resource or Great Project it is based on:
What the +2 Bonus is:
Keyword:
Round You Established it:

PM'd you with my Agents, Wombat, thanks!

[QuintonBeck]

Agents are listed in the Rules and Admin thread, and supervised by me. If anyone has any agents they've added, please pm me with:

Agent Name:
Resource or Great Project it is based on:
What the +2 Bonus is:
Keyword:
Round You Established it:

Wombat, would you mind moving the Agents table over into this thread and putting the table in the spoiler as the above tables are formatted?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Wombat, would you mind moving the Agents table over into this thread and putting the table in the spoiler as the above tables are formatted?

I've reserved a page. I just need to get everyone's stuff in and I'll port it over.

[Kasanip]

Trying to do the troublesome work, thank you for your hard work.
I tried to help with information in this post. Sorry it became tedious.

I was actually thinking of mentioning something similar to your idea Rain about shooting me ideas (and using the Setting Events thread is as good a place as any) because I've definitely been feeling a severe drain in being able to be creative with 20 different entities and they've all suffered even ones I might otherwise have ideas for. So yeah, ideas for NPC actions/goals/intrigue are more than welcome to be tossed my way.

EDIT: We have a new Rules and Administration thread here which will be our primary tracking thread. I would like to invite all our players, but especially our newer players to give it a look through and offer feedback on what might make it easier to get through and understand or if anything important is missing or unclear.

It was asked for questions to add information, however probably the questions were not addressed in new Rules and Administration thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...postcount=1105
Especially situation of NPC is unclear. Although a short ruling was made, please make a clarification of the discussion:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...postcount=1344
It is remembered situation of [Projects] is very confusing.

About Technology
Technology is also confusing. Such a [Slot] is listed for some technology, however there isn't chart to show all of [Slot] availablity.
For example, it can't be understood all of the categories of [Slot] easily.
Also, some category seems strange. For example, Mtambuzi Technology is [Psychological Enhancement], however Patriotism and Psychology are not [Psychological Enhancement]. Prosthetic Limbs are [Medical], however Medicine is not [Medical].


About Military Tables
There are some errors.
The country name is Chivalric Republic of the United Free Cities, however to be written on Military Table [United Chivalric Republic]. Is this mistake or [abbreviated]? If the meaning is the same, probably it is ok.

About Troops

Spoiler

Show

[26] 1000 troops raised (land units (army))
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=709
[28] +1000 Free Knights (land units (army))
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=769
[29] +2000 Free Knights (land units (army))
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=799
[31] +1000 Free Knights (land units (army))
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=854
[34]Zuiguo's army joins Kanyat +3000 garrisons (land units (army)), Dong Nam Dosi + 5000 garrisons (land units (army))
Bastet +1000 Sphynks Lightning Ballistae (land units (army))
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=949
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=957
[40] Bastet +1000 Sphynks Executors (land units (army))
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...postcount=1191

Total:
Dong-Nam Dosi [136] 5000
Free Cities [138] 5000
Bastet [142] 2000
Kanyat [143] 3000



Table [List of winning Tactics] also is absent of Chivalric Republic of the United Free Cities. It can be found in Actions:

Spoiler: Round 32

Show

Free Knights Renowned Epic
(Military 10 Special Action: Winning Tactic: (Storms))
Heroic Free Knights can fight in any environment. However, very memorable are their abilities in the most difficult of weather. Even if most armies become disorganized by mud and rain, or scared of thunder and lightning, a Free Knight will always do one's best. The summer rainy season and Fernbrake are not just examples. Of course history remembers defeat of Zuiguo in many summer battles. Of course such ability is trained skill and talent.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=883

About new character sheet
Finally it was created new character sheet for Steward Yfa Da'at Zwei. Sorry for the trouble.

Spoiler

Show

New character sheet
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=797
Steward Yfa Da'at Zwei
Military: [1] +1[Higher Education] +1 [Round 40]
Diplomacy:[2] +1[Round 39]
Curiosity: [2]+1[Round 39] +1[Republic] +1 [Round 40]
Faith: [2]+1 [Republic] +1 [Round 40]
Luck: 9
___________
Military: 3
Diplomacy: 3
Curiosity: 5
Faith: 4
Luck: 9?

Agents are listed in the Rules and Admin thread, and supervised by me. If anyone has any agents they've added, please pm me with:

Agent Name:
Resource or Great Project it is based on:
What the +2 Bonus is:
Keyword:
Round You Established it:

[Agent: Hospitalers]

Spoiler

Show

Even if all free knights receive medical training in the Prestigious Heroic Academies, free Knights who dedicate their service to become hospitalers are a special kind. These free knights are generous and dedicated to helping those in need. Dedicated to helping, they are usually noncombatants, too. However, they are still free knights, and can defend themselves and victims with their swords when necessary.

About Hospitalers:
A [Military Action] or [Diplomacy Action] must spend to deploy Hospitalers to theatres of war. The designated locations follow similar rule to soldier distribution.

Resource: Knights or Great Project: Prestigious Heroic Academies of Free Knights
Keyword: Hospitaler?
Hospitaler Aid gives -2 to casualty losses to participants in the battle. The aided sides must be designated with the locations.

Agent beginning introduce [28]: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=913
Hospitaler Agent description [33]: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=769

I spoke about this to some people already, but I've got a lot to trade this turn:

- Claymak (fish with hard, clay bodies)
- Sea Drake Scales (Water bending, anyone?)
- Sea Wurms (Myrwik domesticated aquatic mounts; possibly edible?)
- Gold
- Bronze (six stacks of the stuff)
- Artificers (my version of crafts people)
- Heavy Underwater Calvary (a new Tech, that Myrwik [U34] had)

Trades and Technology should be accurate in this post. If you are interested, feel free to send me a PM or talk it out here in the OOC!

Chivalric Republic of the United Free Cities would like to trade, too!
Especially the offered trades at event now are <Tangled Lightning>, <Ban-Terato>, <Grain>, and <Textiles>.
Probably the interested is <Bronze> or <Sea Drake Scales>

[Aedilred]

Trying to do the troublesome work, thank you for your hard work.
I tried to help with information in this post. Sorry it became tedious.

It was asked for questions to add information, however probably the questions were not addressed in new Rules and Administration thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...postcount=1105

As far as those queries go, there is a new section on "Technology" which should hopefully help to address queries about C10 actions. There is also some new (or at least updated) information on how to add NPCs as vassals.

There is no set of examples of miracles/Luck 10s, and perhaps it would be useful to provide some, although although since L10s in particular are a case-by-case thing I'm not sure if it's a good idea. New religions outside the capital are probably best addressed on a case-by-case basis. It might be worth adding something to indicate how to transfer regions between players without warfare, although this has not generally been a problem (and part of me wants to encourage region transfer via warfare...)

Stuff about setting use... maybe there could be a footnote in the rules but I figure for non-commercial use people will either ask or they won't; if they ask we'll say yes, and if they don't it doesn't matter. Commercial use gets into a whole mess that's not forum-appropriate and would need actual lawyers or something to deal with.

It is remembered situation of [Projects] is very confusing.

There is a new bit about projects under "Actions", although perhaps the principle could do with a little clarification. Essentially projects have no mechanical consequence unless they form a prerequisite for something else (an agent or technology) in which case it is specified in that description. They are principally a fluff thing, to help characterise a region, describe new impressive developments and establish bragging rights.

About Technology
Technology is also confusing. Such a [Slot] is listed for some technology, however there isn't chart to show all of [Slot] availablity.
For example, it can't be understood all of the categories of [Slot] easily.
Also, some category seems strange. For example, Mtambuzi Technology is [Psychological Enhancement], however Patriotism and Psychology are not [Psychological Enhancement]. Prosthetic Limbs are [Medical], however Medicine is not [Medical].

As a general rule, only military technologies have slots, at least so far. This is because they are the only technologies which can be extensively stacked with each other, so there is no real need to apply the system outside a military context.

So Medicine, for instance, does not have a slot because it is not used in battle. I am not sure what the effects of Patriotism or Psychology are and maybe they will be assigned slots when they are added to the description table (which is in need of an update).

If the table were made sortable it would be possible to view all current technologies in a given slot easily.

About Military Tables
There are some errors.
The country name is Chivalric Republic of the United Free Cities, however to be written on Military Table [United Chivalric Republic]. Is this mistake or [abbreviated]? If the meaning is the same, probably it is ok.

Some abbreviations are used to save space and make the tables neater, especially when names are quite long. If you have a preferred abbreviation I'm sure the table monkeys would be happy to take that into account.