Phantom of the Opera Werewolf VIII: In Spaaace

[Fleeing Coward]

Yes, so if I havn't contacted you, I havn't scried you.

[Duck999]

So I assume you got my role?
You are free to share your findings... .

Cast. No Power Role.

Thanks for confirming that you probably didn' t know that I was seer and was just trying to cause a mislynch.

With 10 players left, there's a chance that today could be lylo if there were 4 wolves to start. Best case scenario, we can afford 1 more mislynch which is probably why you did it. You just got unlucky in picking me and then screwing up on your execution.

If you stuck to your story and steered the wagon to another villager, you might have gotten away with it too but you made a rookie mistake in panicking and changing your story at the first sign of pressure.

- - - Updated - - -

@Feo, I've contacted those that I've scried. That's all you need to know.

If I wanted to cause a mislynch, there are so many better ways to do it. With only one more chance to lynch the right person, a shadow would get anyone lynched even if it meant dying the next day. To me, this is clearly what you are doing. I don't know what I can do to convince anyone else.

@FC: You contacted everyone you scried, yet argued with Murska that it wasn't safe. The hypocrisy is evident.

[Feo]

Right so I got a message from Murska (if I am reading this correctly) 3 hours before the night in which he died began. He said one of his claimants had a read on me
[the read was correct]
and wanted me to confirm. Since Duck999's story checks out and Fleeing Coward's doesn't I am changing my vote (again). There is of course the possibility of a really long con played by the devil or a really lucky/unlucky roll by the fool-can you advise Luizeu?

[Fleeing Coward]

@FC: You contacted everyone you scried, yet argued with Murska that it wasn't safe. The hypocrisy is evident.

There is no hypocrisy. I had valid reasons to do what I did. Lex can confirm that and so can the other person if they choose to do so but I'll leave that decision to them.

Right so I got a message from Murska (if I am reading this correctly) 3 hours before the night in which he died began. He said one of his claimants had a read on me
[the read was correct]
and wanted me to confirm. Since Duck999's story checks out and Fleeing Coward's doesn't I am changing my vote (again). There is of course the possibility of a really long con played by the devil or a really lucky/unlucky roll by the fool-can you advise Luizeu?

Assuming you're not just trying to cover for your wolf buddy, like I said, the devil/devil proxy had been in contact with Murska already which is why I had to get a proxy to contact Murska in the first place.

[Ramsus]

This is a bit more complicated now, but I'm still leaning towards Duck being a wolf given what I've seen (though I'm a lot less certain than I was before). Might have been different if Feo's role was something besides the most likely thing to be correct at a guess (we already know who the fool is, the day baner is dead, the seer is either Duck of FC, leaving only the baner and the mason as the possible people who would say "nope" to the guess of powerless crew). (Note: I'm assuming there were only two masons given the size of the game.) And the wolves have as much reason to scry any given person as the town network would, so that info Feo was passed by Murska was only useful in catching someone in a lie (although the kind of lie you probably wouldn't be telling if you thought you might be caught).

Edit: Should note it wouldn't have to be a guess either. The devil is just as likely to wind up with crew scries as the seer.

[Lex-Kat]

What do you mean I knew who you were? After conferring with Murska, I decided to scry you, and I shared the result as soon as possible. Lex didn't need to be in that situation. Lex said she was proxy when she didn't need to.

Actually, I believe I did need to. The reason I said I was to be FC's proxy was to give validity to why I felt that his claim to being the Seer is stronger than yours. Fleeing Coward claimed to me via PM 6 hours before you declared him a Shadow in thread. He knows my role, which would be an incredibly lucky guess or Fleeing Coward has learned to read me too well. Which would be horrible.

Also, as FC stated, if you'd stuck with the Proxy claim, I would likely have looked elsewhere as a Proxy for the Devil can still be a Cast Member. But if you're another Seer... well there's only room for 1 Seer in this game. The others are either the Fool or the Devil, and we kill Devil's `round these parts. *Aims phaser, set to kill*

[Duck999]

There is no hypocrisy. I had valid reasons to do what I did. Lex can confirm that and so can the other person if they choose to do so but I'll leave that decision to them.

I understand this. It's just that with this being a win-lose situation here, town needs all the information it can get, and you're hiding some of it.

Actually, I believe I did need to. The reason I said I was to be FC's proxy was to give validity to why I felt that his claim to being the Seer is stronger than yours. Fleeing Coward claimed to me via PM 6 hours before you declared him a Shadow in thread. He knows my role, which would be an incredibly lucky guess or Fleeing Coward has learned to read me too well. Which would be horrible.

Also, as FC stated, if you'd stuck with the Proxy claim, I would likely have looked elsewhere as a Proxy for the Devil can still be a Cast Member. But if you're another Seer... well there's only room for 1 Seer in this game. The others are either the Fool or the Devil, and we kill Devil's `round these parts. *Aims phaser, set to kill*

1) I get why you revealed now. It makes sense. Though I did give my scry result as soon as I got on. And just because he knows your role, he still could be the devil or a shadow.
2) If I were a shadow, why would I have turned the unnecessary risk of the proxy claim into a much more unnecessary, much riskier seer claim. A seer claim can be counterclaimed, especially when one seer is already revealed to everyone. I would love to hear one good reason I would claim seer as a shadow.

[Fleeing Coward]

I understand this. It's just that with this being a win-lose situation here, town needs all the information it can get, and you're hiding some of it.

Neither of us dispute the fact that Luizeu is the fool. He knows who I contacted first and why I didn't use him to talk to Lex. That's all the rest of town needs to know. Not going to give your wolf buddies anymore information than I need to.

[Logic]

A Duck or Fleeing Coward. It may not be a targ hunt, but we shall have glorious battle this day!

Now, I'm not Legato, but I think I'm beginning to see what Wolf-Duck looks like.

Not that Fleeing Coward comes out of this smelling like a rose. This is a hard decision in either case, but I got a better feeling about Duck.

[Elenna]

Can you answer that last question I asked?

Also, why did you vote me in the first place then?

Sorry, Duck, I posted before I saw your last message.

I voted for you because I didn't have any better suspects, since I didn't know who had supposedly contacted you. I was planning to see what happened during the day and probably change it.

As for your other question, maybe, as FC said, you just need one more mislynch. Maybe you're trying to distract us from something. I don't know. My gut instinct is still telling me you're more suspicious than FC, although I'm a lot less sure now.

Lexkat, are you and whoever else willing to explain why FC didn't think contacting you was too risky?

[Duck999]

Might have been different if Feo's role was something besides the most likely thing to be correct at a guess

That's not what Feo was saying. It is known a seer claimant who contacted Murska scried Feo as cast. Murska told Feo this, and Feo shared it with everybody. Feo has revealed that a seer claimant in contact with Murska scried him as cast. It wasn't Luizeu, it wasn't FC. It was me. That's how you should know it wasn't just a lucky guess.

Lexkat, are you and whoever else willing to explain why FC didn't think contacting you was too risky?

I would love to hear this too.

[Lex-Kat]

Perhaps he believed it was time to take a risk and trust me. We have played a few years with and against each other. And Fleeing Coward is a good player. It is possible he didn't get a villain read from how I was playing, and decided it was a chance worth taking.

This all said, it is possible that Duck is correct. Again, FC is a good (perhaps even a great) player. It's possible he was hoping to use me as a Devil proxy, and got lucky that it was also the night the Seer scried him. But we have a Seer vs. Devil situation here. Choose one.

Either way, we'll know more by lynching one of them. My bet is on Duck, and I'm not changing. But I'm not saying I can't be wrong on this.

[Duck999]

The problem with being unsure is how important this lynch is. Unless the baner is right tonight, the correct lynch may need to be made today to win, unless Murska day baned me. If your doubt could be fixed by answering any questions, I would be glad to clear anyhing up.

@Logic:
You clearly aren't Legato, as not even I know what wolf Duck looks like, but it isnt this.

[Elenna]

Perhaps he believed it was time to take a risk and trust me. We have played a few years with and against each other. And Fleeing Coward is a good player. It is possible he didn't get a villain read from how I was playing, and decided it was a chance worth taking.

This all said, it is possible that Duck is correct. Again, FC is a good (perhaps even a great) player. It's possible he was hoping to use me as a Devil proxy, and got lucky that it was also the night the Seer scried him. But we have a Seer vs. Devil situation here. Choose one.

Either way, we'll know more by lynching one of them. My bet is on Duck, and I'm not changing. But I'm not saying I can't be wrong on this.

This...doesn't sound like something FC wouldn't be willing to say, if he were telling the truth. Changing my vote to Fleeing Coward

[Lex-Kat]

Like I said, it's 50/50. The Devil and the Seer both get 100% scries. So I can't 100% say that it was either of them who scried me. Nothing to do about it until the Day Narration.

[ThePhantom]

End of Day 4

Odd, how no one remarks on the change of their location. Put in a place which at least half of the people here don't know of, but focused on a game of lies and truth. A parting thing from one who fell, however keeps things peaceful.

Summary: Duck was day baned. No lynch
Night 4 begins

[Fleeing Coward]

Conning Murska into day baning you before you kill him. I got to say I'm impressed Duck.

[Duck999]

Who should I scry tonight? Any input is appreciated.

[Ramsus]

And now the game is pretty much in the baner's hands....

Gotta say Phantom, a day bane that works after the day baner is killed is pretty dang strong in a game with this few players.

[ThePhantom]

He sent during the night phase, and I see no reason why I shouldn't let it stand when it was sent based on what information was given.

Also, if Banjo doesn't vote the next day he will be autolynched.

[Fleeing Coward]

Who should I scry tonight? Any input is appreciated.

Just give up the act already Duck. We both know you're going to me tonight since you can't afford me getting off another scry.

Ramsus, day bane is working as intended and I don't see any problem with it. Banes always take effect first before the kill otherwise night banes wouldn't work either.

[Ramsus]

*looks at first post* What information? All I see is that there's a day baner role, not how it works. Also, I didn't say anything in my last post about if the information is given or if it's working "as intended" (though how you judge intent without information I have no idea). I said it seemed rather strong for the number of players we have. Not sure the comparison to night banes really makes sense. If you night bane yourself and are hit with a kill, you don't die because you were baned. If you night bane someone else and were hit with the kill your bane didn't do anything anyway. Also where did I say I didn't think the result should stand? I was just commenting on the mechanic.

[ThePhantom]

Fair enough. I should have put more information on how my game works. As for how strong it is, well, I admit that the roles are set from when I had more people playing these games. I tried adjusting things, which is why I took out the lover role, but it seems not quite enough. Well, I'm trying to see how this works out this time. Trying out new things to work out what makes a funner game.

[Fleeing Coward]

*looks at first post* What information? All I see is that there's a day baner role, not how it works. Also, I didn't say anything in my last post about if the information is given or if it's working "as intended" (though how you judge intent without information I have no idea). I said it seemed rather strong for the number of players we have. Not sure the comparison to night banes really makes sense. If you night bane yourself and are hit with a kill, you don't die because you were baned. If you night bane someone else and were hit with the kill your bane didn't do anything anyway. Also where did I say I didn't think the result should stand? I was just commenting on the mechanic.

While it might have been better if Phantom clarified things in the opening post, in my experience, unless there are special rules, night kills generally always happens last after all other effects takes place. Even the scries all technically happen before the kills since how else do you get fool results if your target is dead and revealed to be a certain role? It's just that you usually don't get it if you die because it does you no good if you're dead.

[Ramsus]

Hmmm. Well I've certainly played in games where killing someone stopped their actions, so I for one was certainly surprised to see a day bane post-day baner.* Though yeah obviously scries happen before kills, then again you aren't scrying yourself while getting killed usually. I guess the order of that could matter in a game with multiple sides and scry interference though.

*I'm actually not surprised about the target though since I never had much reason to doubt Duck and Murska being in contact like Duck said.

[Duck999]

And now the game is pretty much in the baner's hands....

If, as I believe FC said, there are 4 wolves, and 10 players, we have one more day to lynch FC and extend our life.

And nobody is going after you FC. Nobody is going after me either. Neither one of us would kill the other, as it would mean that we revealed ourselves. Unless you really don't care, I'm surviving the night. The banner should not, and I repeat, SHOULD NOT bane FC or I.

[Elenna]

So...I guess we're allowed to talk at night then?

Hmmm. Well I've certainly played in games where killing someone stopped their actions, so I for one was certainly surprised to see a day bane post-day baner.* Though yeah obviously scries happen before kills, then again you aren't scrying yourself while getting killed usually. I guess the order of that could matter in a game with multiple sides and scry interference though.

*I'm actually not surprised about the target though since I never had much reason to doubt Duck and Murska being in contact like Duck said.

Yeah, IIRC everyone (including FC) agreed that Duck was in contact with Murska. We just don't know if Murska was tricked or not.

[Fleeing Coward]

If, as I believe FC said, there are 4 wolves, and 10 players, we have one more day to lynch FC and extend our life.

And nobody is going after you FC. Nobody is going after me either. Neither one of us would kill the other, as it would mean that we revealed ourselves. Unless you really don't care, I'm surviving the night. The banner should not, and I repeat, SHOULD NOT bane FC or I.

So 4 of you and you're asking the baner to bane themselves with Banjo almost certainly to autolynch. Planning to brute force your way to victory?

Baner, bane whoever you believe to be the most likely target tonight. This may very well be our last chance if there's 4 wolves.

[Ramsus]

Hmmm. Ok I probably just shouldn't have said anything about what the baner should and shouldn't do. (Although I wasn't really trying to, that's why I didn't actually give advise on the target.) Baner should do what they think is best if we're this close to losing rather than taking advice from people who could easily be wolves trying to gain an edge or trick the baner into baning/not baning their target.

@Elenna: Wouldn't it have been funny though if Duck had just been bluffing about that? Up until the day bane it was a possibility. (Unlikely, but I've seen stranger.)

As far as talking at night, unless it's specifically not allowed, it's allowed. That said I usually refrain since depending on the games rules it tends to be rather unfair to the wolves for town to have all those extra phases to discuss in or bad for town as it'll just result in giving the wolves more information to work with. Sometimes it's both. I think most other people share the same opinion. But it's not a hard stance we're taking, so often as not you'll have one or two night phases where people talk. Though mostly it's more about things like the day bane mechanics discussion or random commentary, not so much the "who should we lynch next?"/"what would Banesus do?"/etc.
Hehe, Banesus.

[Duck999]

So 4 of you and you're asking the baner to bane themselves with Banjo almost certainly to autolynch. Planning to brute force your way to victory?

I actually didn't think about Banjo's autolynch. If we PM banjo, then we should be fine. I also said nothing about the banner baning themselves. It is up to them who they think the best choice is. And why would I have not killed Murska if I were a wolf? He was a town power role who was also an extra win for the wolves.

Edit: I think I'll scry Lex, if no one has a better suggestion by morning.