Magic the Gathering XXI: Tap Target Keg

[Ninjaman]

Dropping the Epiphanies (I didn't have enough artifacts to use them without the rings or orbs) gets the tap down to a much slimmer 36 cards.

Spoiler: Sphinx's Prowess

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Creatures
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Jeskai Sage
2x Runed Servitor
2x Jhessian Thief
1x Ornithopter
2x Frost Lynx

Other
2x Divination
4x Sphinx's Tutelage
4x Dreadwaters
1x Talent of the Telepath
1x Alhammarret's Archive
2x Sword of the Animist
3x Send to Sleep
4x Crippling Chill

It also has the mild advantage that the prowess creatures can do a reasonable bit of sword enhanced face punching should the tutelages not show up on schedule. I don't think it would win that way, but you never know.

I would either cut all the mill or all the prowess, they don't fit together. I think going with prowess is the safer route, as it is more likely to actually do something, and it is still really fun to play.

[Androgeus]

Man, I used to know how the rules work, but I've clearly proven that I don't. Well don't combine Day's Undoing with those cards then.

To be fair, the rule was only added with Day's Undoing's release so if you don't keep up with all the rules updates you wouldn't know.

[Dhavaer]

I would either cut all the mill or all the prowess, they don't fit together. I think going with prowess is the safer route, as it is more likely to actually do something, and it is still really fun to play.

Sure they fit together; the sages trigger draws when they die and the thieves do the same when they hit, both fuelling tutelage. That they also have prowess is a nice bonus.

[Ninjaman]

Sure they fit together; the sages trigger draws when they die and the thieves do the same when they hit, both fuelling tutelage. That they also have prowess is a nice bonus.

Prowess is an irrelevant bonus that does way too little in the deck compared to what you are paying for it.

[Dhavaer]

What would you suggest replacing them with, then?

[Ninjaman]

What would you suggest replacing them with, then?

If you go with the mill plan I would also cut all your temporary tap since you will be a slow deck so tempo cards won't be very good.

Chasm Skulker could be an alternate wincondition and a good blocker.
Claustrophobia perma-tap
Griptide more monoblue removal
Icefall Regent Tap on a beater
Wall of Frost Champ blocker
Whelming Wave if the table gets too clogged.
Whisk Away More removal
I would also play some counterspells

If you can play non standard cards I would also play cards like
Augur of Bolas

[Dhavaer]

Alright, let's try the control/defence version.

Spoiler: Sphinx's Dismissal

Show

Creatures
4x Faerie Miscreant
3x Runed Servitor

Other:
2x Divination
4x Sphinx's Tutelage
4x Dreadwaters
1x Talent of the Telepath
1x Alhammarret's Archive
1x Orbs of Warding
4x Prism Ring
2x Contradict
4x Calculated Dismissal or 4x Clash of Wills (maybe 2 of each?)
2x Whisk Away
4x Claustrophobia

That leaves space for 24 land. I kind of want Hydrolash, because otherwise the Orbs are the only thing I have against a horde of goblin tokens and it takes too long to come online. I'm also thinking of 2 Artificer's Epiphanies in addition to the 2 Divinations, since I have more artifacts in this build. I'm also considering Mage Ring Network. So, 24 Islands or 2 Hydros, 2 Epiphanies, 1 Network and 19 Islands?

[tgva8889]

To be fair, the rule was only added with Day's Undoing's release so if you don't keep up with all the rules updates you wouldn't know.

I guess I can cut myself a little bit of slack for not knowing how specifically the card Day's Undoing works, given that it just came out? I appreciate the pep talk.

CN the Logos, those look pretty nice.

[Sith_Happens]

So, what's everyone think of Day's Undoing?

I can't decide whether it only ending the turn if it's your turn makes it a better or worse card. On the one hand, giving it flash makes it Timetwister. On the other hand, giving it flash doesn't also make it Time Stop.

[tgva8889]

I can't decide whether it only ending the turn if it's your turn makes it a better or worse card. On the one hand, giving it flash makes it Timetwister. On the other hand, giving it flash doesn't also make it Time Stop.

Based on the article I read, they actually specifically changed the wording so that you couldn't turn Quicken + Day's Undoing into Timetwister + Time Walk.

[Lea Plath]

So I'm rocking up to Tiny Leaders tonite with this 60. Alesha, Stax Khan.

The meta seems to be mostly elves and Shu Yun stoneblade due to the density of legacy players. So my thought it to make everything cost 3 to stop Shu Yun and Elves from vomiting cards out, then just stax them down with efficient beaters, mana denial and tokens.

What do people think? Any comments? I kinda want to fit a Blade-Splicer in as another way to hit Shu-Yun and have another beater.

[Fable Wright]

So I'm rocking up to Tiny Leaders tonite with this 60. Alesha, Stax Khan.

The meta seems to be mostly elves and Shu Yun stoneblade due to the density of legacy players. So my thought it to make everything cost 3 to stop Shu Yun and Elves from vomiting cards out, then just stax them down with efficient beaters, mana denial and tokens.

What do people think? Any comments? I kinda want to fit a Blade-Splicer in as another way to hit Shu-Yun and have another beater.

Not sold on the Brain Maggot, and 18 lands seems really sketchy despite the low curve and mana rocks. You're liable to have issues putting down your rocks with less than 20 land. Also, Mox Diamond is rather poor in this build. If you draw it after the first turn, you'll have no lands to pitch to it, and if you have it in your opener, it's likely that you don't have enough lands to pitch to it. Seems pretty lose-lose in a low-land shell with no land recursion.

Also, Enlightened/Demonic/Vampiric Tutor: Are they banned? If not, why are you not running them?

For lands, Shizo, Death's Storehouse seems better than another Swamp, being able to force your commander through, and Tomb of Urami is can be surprisingly good in stax builds as it provides a lategame must-answer threat when both players are in topdeck mode.

[Lea Plath]

Not sold on the Brain Maggot, and 18 lands seems really sketchy despite the low curve and mana rocks. You're liable to have issues putting down your rocks with less than 20 land. Also, Mox Diamond is rather poor in this build. If you draw it after the first turn, you'll have no lands to pitch to it, and if you have it in your opener, it's likely that you don't have enough lands to pitch to it. Seems pretty lose-lose in a low-land shell with no land recursion.

Also, Enlightened/Demonic/Vampiric Tutor: Are they banned? If not, why are you not running them?

For lands, Shizo, Death's Storehouse seems better than another Swamp, being able to force your commander through, and Tomb of Urami is can be surprisingly good in stax builds as it provides a lategame must-answer threat when both players are in topdeck mode.

I've not found any trouble with them. The idea being you use the rocks over lands to fight through Winters Orb and have more cards down for Tangle Wire. Brain Maggot is just a way to disrupt hands, and Mox Diamond actually isn't so bad I've found. The early power it gives for turn 1-2 trinisphere is excellent.

As for tutors, all except Enlightened are banned and I was trying to avoid 1 costs so I could play Chalice as well.

[tgva8889]

I'm not sure what I would play, but I feel like this deck doesn't have enough mana denial. Trinisphere and Winter Orb and such are fine cards, but unfortunately you really need a lot of mana denial effects at once to really get people and I'm not sure that you have enough.

Also, isn't Tiny Leaders 50 cards?

[Mystic Muse]

I'm not sure what I would play, but I feel like this deck doesn't have enough mana denial. Trinisphere and Winter Orb and such are fine cards, but unfortunately you really need a lot of mana denial effects at once to really get people and I'm not sure that you have enough.

Also, isn't Tiny Leaders 50 cards?

It's either a typo, or she's including sideboard. Though, I notice the maindeck in that link only has 48 cards.

[CN the Logos]

Alright, let's try the control/defence version.

More thoughts:

Hydrolash is a trap. It doesn't stop a horde of goblin tokens, it only buys you one turn at best. And that's assuming your opponent is actually playing a horde of creatures, none of which have a power greater than two. If your opponent has a Goblin Piledriver, it's a bad joke. I don't mean it's a bad joke against a tournament ready goblin deck with a playset of the things. I mean that if your opponent has a single copy of that card your Hydrolashes do nothing. The same goes for Orbs of Warding, except Orbs is five mana, not an instant, only reduces damage by one point per creature, and is destroyed by anything that can get rid of artifacts. I guess if you're playing with sideboards, maybe you could put it in that as a way to deal with tokens and with spells that directly target you using the same sideboard slot? Running one copy of it that you probably won't draw when you need it and has a decent chance of getting blown up when you actually get it just seems like a recipe for sadness though.

Prism Ring isn't good. At all. Gaining one life per spell you play isn't enough to slow down more aggressive decks, and it gets worse the more artifacts you play because most artifacts aren't colored spells.

If your opponent isn't totally tapped out, Clash of Wills is strictly worse than Cancel, and the only reason to ever play Cancel is if you can have an artist alter it to extend the middle finger on the M10 artwork. The scry 2 on Calculated Dismissal's spell mastery trigger might be worth it, although I'd rather play Dissolve or Dissipate for the same mana cost.

I ask again, what format is this for? Is this a Standard deck? Because if it isn't, you could play Aetherize. One more mana than Hydrolash, and it doesn't have the cantrip effect, but it forces your opponent to replay attacking creature cards, and attacking tokens just cease to exist. Aetherspouts is still Standard-legal for another few months, although it's probably too slow for what you want it to do. Then again, it could replace Contradict for the same mana cost.

To be fair, the rule was only added with Day's Undoing's release so if you don't keep up with all the rules updates you wouldn't know.

Time Stop was first printed in Champions of Kamigawa, and EDH players have been using Sundial of the Infinite in response to Phage's ETB trigger for a while now. Although no one outside of EDH will ever use either of those cards, so I don't blame anyone for not remembering they exist.

CN the Logos, those look pretty nice.

Yeah, I think I got my trade value's worth, although I'm moderately disappointed the guy who made the proxies wasn't able to fit Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon's third head on the Scion proxy. It still turned out pretty well, I think.

[Dhavaer]

I ask again, what format is this for? Is this a Standard deck? Because if it isn't, you could play Aetherize. One more mana than Hydrolash, and it doesn't have the cantrip effect, but it forces your opponent to replay attacking creature cards, and attacking tokens just cease to exist. Aetherspouts is still Standard-legal for another few months, although it's probably too slow for what you want it to do. Then again, it could replace Contradict for the same mana cost.

It's for Standard. I don't have either of the Aether cards and I only have one Dissolve.

[Lea Plath]

So.

The last time Tiny Leaders fired, we had 4 Shu Yun decks and 2 Elves decks. Then like 2-3 randomers. I build Alesha to beat elves and Shu Yun by making their spells cost 3, removing cheap elves and prowess.


Aaaaaand. We didn't have any of those. We had UR Painter/Tuterlage combo control. 2 Meriekt Bi control decks. 1 Merfolk. Me with Alesha and 1 Animar Combo.

I went 2-1 cause I got the bye. 2-1 versus Merfolk. Thassa's unblockableness is a beating. 2-1 versus Esper control. I won the first game easily by going into tangle wire and staxing game out. Game 2 was hard fought, but I overcommited in order to deal with his growing board of threats, but he eventually won, on 2 life, off a double sworded stoneforge. Game 3, I was on the play and didn't sequence the stax right.

So, TLDR. I built my deck for the wrong meta and got punished for it.


Soooooooo...

Going forward I'm gonna be siding out the package on the draw, keeping on the play. It should also hopefully blank any artifact removal they bring in for the cards.

I'm playing a more threat heavy version, dropping some of the Mesmeric Fiend type cards.

Compare my original build with the new one. I kind of want Chaos Warp for tucking commanders/being value but unsure on cuts.

I could also play a more midrange-y version, with recursion being a higher element.

Other decks I am considering is Sydri Midrange, with tinker, thopter sword and value backed up with some counters, Yasova Temur Delver, Nim Painter control myself, or Jenera Tempo.

[Androgeus]

Time Stop was first printed in Champions of Kamigawa, and EDH players have been using Sundial of the Infinite in response to Phage's ETB trigger for a while now. Although no one outside of EDH will ever use either of those cards, so I don't blame anyone for not remembering they exist.

I know all about Time Stop and Sundial. Day's Undoing causes other things to trigger during it's own resolution (due to the shuffle and draw), which the other two didn't so it was not accounted for in the previous rules for ending the turn.

Also a new card for Battle For Zendikar was spoiled in Zendikar vs Eldrazi

Spoiler

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[Svata]

For 6!? That's crazy!

[Dhavaer]

Well, I know what my Zendikar Roil/Incarnate deck wants.

[Binks]

So Magic Duels if finally out on Steam (just barely squeaking in their July deadline). Seems to be having some server issues, which makes me wonder what they spent the last few weeks fixing, but whatever.

Couple of comments after having played the first story campaign.

1. Man, this game does a LOT of hand-holding. I turned off tips and hints and I still get unskippable 'here's how this one ability works' sections that I'm sure would be useful to a newbie, but come off as kind of condescending at this point. 'Lets see if you can manage to win this game. Your opponent has no flying or reach, and you have a flier with power equal to their life total. Thrilling challenge!'
2. I'm getting some kind of graphical glitch where the backgrounds aren't loading (pure black instead), so might be a part of that, but everything seems substantially smaller and harder to see in this version, which is a big step backwards IMHO. Duels 2015 already had everything small enough that it was often hard to select specific cards or understand what was going on, and the cards in this one feel around 2/3 the size of that. Might be resolved if I can ever get this graphical glitch fixed. As a side note, it's very annoying that they removed my resolution of choice (1360x768). You can get 16:9 resolution for 1 step above and below 1360 but for some reason you cannot select a 16:9 resolution for 1360. It's an eclectic set of resolutions at best.
3. I appreciate the fact that they have a deck building wizard and a pure deckbuilder, and that they let you choose which one to use. Was nice to be able to build my deck without any hand holding silliness. And the pure deckbuilder is actually an improvement for Duels 2015, as it adds a few extra search features and doesn't separate lands into their own tab for whatever reason.
4. When they say only Origins cards are unlockable, they failed to mention that some cards from other sets are available. You start off (after completing Gideon's campaign) with a Starter box of cards which seems to include 4 of each guildgate (bad, but easy fixing), 2 of each of the 10 rare 'enters tapped unless you control a specific basic' cycle, and a bunch of M15 cards. Seeing Nightfire Giant in my pool was kind of amusing, especially when I was only expecting Origins stuff.
5. The story mode escalates alright. At least for Gideon's journey I found the deck to be boring but practical (it's a white weenie deck) and full of junk cards, but your opponents decks are worse, so works out fine. We'll see how the other ones play out, but it's at least better than M15's 'Here's a bunch of terrible cards, go make a deck then face finely tuned and perfectly designed enemy decks that will trounce you until you get lucky'

Overall, seems like a great introductory product, and should be alright for veterans once you get past the annoying hand-holding stuff and the worse-than-Duels15 interface.

[tgva8889]

Duels is pretty fun, but Chandra's deck is terrible against her first opponent. It took me several tries to win because it's hard to win games when you have a pile of vanilla creatures and your opponent has a million Thopters and a 2-for-1 Reclusive Artificer.

Time Stop was first printed in Champions of Kamigawa, and EDH players have been using Sundial of the Infinite in response to Phage's ETB trigger for a while now. Although no one outside of EDH will ever use either of those cards, so I don't blame anyone for not remembering they exist.

Those are different because Day's Undoing causes the abilities to trigger as part of its effect, so I forgot that ending the turn would cause those abilities to go away. I am intimately aware of how Time Stop and Sundial of the Infinite works as I have played both cards in a variety of decks.

[Dhavaer]

So, I'm planning my deck for my next Friday Night Magic (tonight's went terribly, red aggro doesn't do super well against Abzan apparently).

Option 1: Black/Green Elves. Weirdly, my first draft of that came out to 60 cards. It's what you'd expect, elves to help draw more elves, elves to help cast elves, elves to deal damage to people without elves. Elves no longer looks like a word to me. The maybeboard is cards that I have, but didn't make the cut for one reason or another. I might drop two Massacres for, maybe, the third Empath and a Gilder. Also, I'm not sure about the wastes; worth the life loss?

Option 2: Impact Roil. Basically, get Impact Tremors and Zendikar Roil out and keep dropping land. I don't have as much land searching as I'd like, but I'll work with what I have. I need more early creatures, though, my initial build was full of buff spells but I'd forgot to put more than the Incarnate, Hierarchs, Atarka and Nissa in. If I drop in the Wolves, Growths, Reclaims and Lightning, that will give me room for 22 land, will that be enough, do you think?

[Blue Ghost]

The set of cards present in Duels is roughly the same size as Origins, and looks appropriate for a core set. My guess is that the Duels cards were an early draft of the Origins set skeleton, and some cards were switched around later in development.

[Dhavaer]

Impact Roil has been updated; I found another 2 Pilgrimages and put in 4 Elvish Visionaries; I thought the card draw might be more helpful than the slightly larger wolves. I have four slots left open and I'm think of adding either the lightning strikes, growths or wolves. Any advice?

[tgva8889]

The Impact Roil deck doesn't look like it does anything most of the time. I'd lean towards the Elves deck. As far as I can see, there's no reason for you not to be playing both the Llanowar Wastes you have as they provide good fixing. I'd probably see if you can find a good card to let you rebuy a large number of your dead creatures and replace one of the Eyeblight Massacres with it. Something in the vein of Gravepurge but better; I don't remember if there's anything particularly strong at returning a lot of creatures from your graveyard to your hand. Being able to rebuy your Shamans or Messengers will be the best way for you to rebuild your board after a wipe.

[Dhavaer]

I don't think I have anything better than Gravepurge at recycling my graveyard, but I do have a Gravepurge, so it's in. I'll see tomorrow how it works out.

[tgva8889]

I just realized, Gravepurge is actually perfect so long as you're getting a Sylvan Messenger back, because Messenger will draw you all the Elves you put on top. That's a much better combination than I would have thought.

For your sideboard, I strongly suggest you include every copy of Reclamation Sage you own, and then add any other cards that can deal with artifacts or enchantments, like Naturalize or Unravel the Aether. I'd play probably 4 total cards with that effect. You probably want more copies of Gravepurge, as they'll be pretty effective against a control deck at rebuilding your board, and you probably want some sort of discard spell. Duress is a pretty good one against both Abzan and Red, so I'd suggest that one. I'd also put the fourth Eyeblight Massacre in your sideboard, just in case. Then I'd finish with a removal spell that you can use against larger creatures. Ultimate Price and Hero's Downfall are ideal.

On a somewhat unrelated note, anyone have any suggestions for a mono-red Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh Commander deck? I'm working on putting one together, because I don't have a mono-red deck yet and she seems like a fun card to try out.

[Sith_Happens]

On a somewhat unrelated note, anyone have any suggestions for a mono-red Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh Commander deck? I'm working on putting one together, because I don't have a mono-red deck yet and she seems like a fun card to try out.

My first suggestion is to put in every other version of Chandra as well just for funsies.