Magic the Gathering XXI: Tap Target Keg

[tgva8889]

My first suggestion is to put in every other version of Chandra as well just for funsies.

Chandra, Pyromaster is almost good enough that I'd just consider doing it. The others I don't think are good enough to be worth playing given that I'm planning to have my commander in play a lot. But I might end up playing some of them anyways, because having lots of planeswalkers in my deck designed to use a planeswalker might just be a good idea anyways. At least most of them can just be used for useful effects.

[unseenmage]

Have a Modern Bant deck that wants 3 more Noble Hierarchs.
I looked but I'm out of Birds if Paradise too.
What's the third tier choice for Bant mana dorks?

[tgva8889]

That depends. What cards are you trying to cast on 3 mana, and what does your mana base look like?

My immediate answer is Avacyn's Pilgrim, assuming that you want a source of white to go with your green source to help you cast Loxodon Smiter or Knight of the Reliquary. If you're trying to cast Geist of St. Traft, then you really don't have many better options than Birds or Hierarch. If you're trying to cast a 2 and have an attacker (or Path to Exile mana) then Avacyn's Pilgrim also probably does the job. But it does depend on what other cards you're playing.

[unseenmage]

That depends. What cards are you trying to cast on 3 mana, and what does your mana base look like?

My immediate answer is Avacyn's Pilgrim, assuming that you want a source of white to go with your green source to help you cast Loxodon Smiter or Knight of the Reliquary. If you're trying to cast Geist of St. Traft, then you really don't have many better options than Birds or Hierarch. If you're trying to cast a 2 and have an attacker (or Path to Exile mana) then Avacyn's Pilgrim also probably does the job. But it does depend on what other cards you're playing.

It's a Legendary good stuff deck inspired by Sisay EDH. Random good modern legendaries and some legendary support Cards are all it's running at the moment.

Honestly I also need some advece as to the most versatile removal to add to it too.

[Sith_Happens]

Spoiler: The End is Nigh

Show

[Duck999]

We can make it through this horrible tragedy.

Especially with full art lands to support us. Soon it will be time to squander my life savings on packs just for the basic lands.

[tgva8889]

As cool as enemy fetches are, we have the Onslaught fetches in Standard. It would have been unrealistic to expect them to give us 5 more in Standard.

[Androgeus]

We can make it through this horrible tragedy.

Especially with full art lands to support us. Soon it will be time to squander my life savings on packs just for the basic lands.

Fat Packs should come with a bundle of full arts so you don't need to buy just packs to get them.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Fat Packs should come with a bundle of full arts so you don't need to buy just packs to get them.

I'm probably going to buy a few fat packs just for the lands.

[Mystic Muse]

I will likely do the same.

[Ninjaman]

As cool as enemy fetches are, we have the Onslaught fetches in Standard. It would have been unrealistic to expect them to give us 5 more in Standard.

We had all ten shocks in standard, in the same set at that. Along with all the buddy lands. I don't see how ten fetches is unreasonable.

[Mystic Muse]

How much would it cost to print out a cube? I ask because I want to use cards that are kind of expensive, and being able to play with strangers means I can use worthless pieces of paper over pennycards so no one is motivated to steal anything.

[Fable Wright]

Zendikar fat packs did not come with full art lands. They were the source of the few Zendikar lands that are not full art.

[Ninjaman]

How much would it cost to print out a cube? I ask because I want to use cards that are kind of expensive, and being able to play with strangers means I can use worthless pieces of paper over pennycards so no one is motivated to steal anything.

I heard somebody who made a fantasy cube say that it cost him about 0.1 $ per card, that included the price for sleeves. I imagine it is about that price so you would be looking at 36+$. It's probably not precise but it gives you an idea.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Zendikar fat packs did not come with full art lands. They were the source of the few Zendikar lands that are not full art.

The product description on the website (and most websites selling fat packs) says they do. The intro packs, on the other hand, had normal lands.

[Fable Wright]

The product description on the website (and most websites selling fat packs) says they do. The intro packs, on the other hand, had normal lands.

Ah. My mistake then.

I now predict that BFZ fat packs will sell like hot cakes.

[Svata]

Buying 3 myself. And who knows, there's 2 more sets in the new zendikar block, we might get fetches in one of those.

[Ninjaman]

Buying 3 myself. And who knows, there's 2 more sets in the new zendikar block, we might get fetches in one of those.

1* They changed it.

[JBPuffin]

I was considering starting a separate thread for this, but this is a Magic-related topic. How would Magic change if the mechanics were the same, but the Color system wasn't? As in, instead of using WUBRG as mana types (ignoring the exotic ones for now), they had something like the Chinese Element System (Fire, Water, Air, Wood, Metal), or even just Red, Yellow and Blue? Also, what would be some ideas for an alternative setup (not necessarily 5 "colors")?

[sonofzeal]

I was considering starting a separate thread for this, but this is a Magic-related topic. How would Magic change if the mechanics were the same, but the Color system wasn't? As in, instead of using WUBRG as mana types (ignoring the exotic ones for now), they had something like the Chinese Element System (Fire, Water, Air, Wood, Metal), or even just Red, Yellow and Blue? Also, what would be some ideas for an alternative setup (not necessarily 5 "colors")?

That's... an extremely broad question. I'll try to answer it anyway.

The game wouldn't be any different if you just re-named WUBRG as "Fire, Water, Air, Wood, Metal". FWAOM could do basically what WUBRG does, with some different art, although some might make or or less sense than before. I like Loryn, so I'll cite "Kithkin, Merfolk, Boggart, Cinder, Treefolk" as a way to parse down the original colours differently without necessarily changing the dynamic. One could call all white card "Kithkin" cards, and, barring art and card names, the game could stay basically the same.

Shifting what's sorted where on the colour pie is a bit more interesting. What if "trample" was a white trait while "vigilence" was green? If "haste" was black and "deathtouch" was red? A number of interesting things are possible here, but there's too many possibilities to go through them all. First Strike and Deathtouch probably shouldn't be on the same part of the wheel. Same with "Double Strike" and "Trample", and "Hexproof" and "Indestructible". There's a reason "Flying" goes with W/U/B and "Reach" goes with R/G, too - leaving a color without either would be bad, and you need Flying to be common for Reach to have any value whereas the reverse is not true.

There's a lot of damage to the game that could be done by reassigning color associations incautiously. There's probably a lot more that's value-neutral, and in certain formats or sets it might even be beneficial if there's some defect or other. That's probably rare though.


As for more or fewer colours... more could be interesting but complexity increases factorially for diminishing returns. Too little complexity and you've got rock-paper-scissors. Too much, and either distinctions get blurred to incoherence, or the colors become incredibly specific archetypes. Imagine if every Red deck was aggro, every Blue was control, every Black was dredge, every Purple was land-denial, every Brown was midrange.... would deckbuilding be more interesting or less?

[tgva8889]

We had all ten shocks in standard, in the same set at that. Along with all the buddy lands. I don't see how ten fetches is unreasonable.

I didn't say unreasonable, I said unrealistic.

To be fair, we had all ten shocks in Standard because that set was a multicolor set and multicolor standard is unplayable without mana bases to support it. We don't need the enemy fetches because we have the enemy pain lands to go with the taplands we already have.

Wizards doesn't really like shuffling that much, so it doesn't surprise me that they'd limit the amount of fetchlands in Standard. Having several decks that shuffle every turn for the first 3 turns doesn't sound like what Wizards wants for Standard.

Buying 3 myself. And who knows, there's 2 more sets in the new zendikar block, we might get fetches in one of those.

Actually, there's only 1 more set in the new Battle for Zendikar block. 2 set blocks now, so we get a little less time with each plane.

[Ninjaman]

Shifting what's sorted where on the colour pie is a bit more interesting. What if "trample" was a white trait while "vigilence" was green? If "haste" was black and "deathtouch" was red? A number of interesting things are possible here, but there's too many possibilities to go through them all. First Strike and Deathtouch probably shouldn't be on the same part of the wheel. Same with "Double Strike" and "Trample", and "Hexproof" and "Indestructible". There's a reason "Flying" goes with W/U/B and "Reach" goes with R/G, too - leaving a color without either would be bad, and you need Flying to be common for Reach to have any value whereas the reverse is not true.

Green has vigilance, black has haste.

[Duck999]

Will full art lands (new ones) still cost more when they are in the current set? If so, fat packs of BFZ would cost more, so buying a lot would be expensive.

However, with the lands being the lands you get in packs, I would expect them to be at least a little cheaper. I might buy myself a fat pack. I haven't bought a fat pack in quite a while, since 10 packs is the same price.

[Svata]

Actually, there's only 1 more set in the new Battle for Zendikar block. 2 set blocks now, so we get a little less time with each plane.

Right, sorry, forgot. *grumbles* I think it'll make telling stories for each plane harder, but what do I know...

[Androgeus]

Will full art lands (new ones) still cost more when they are in the current set? If so, fat packs of BFZ would cost more, so buying a lot would be expensive.

However, with the lands being the lands you get in packs, I would expect them to be at least a little cheaper. I might buy myself a fat pack. I haven't bought a fat pack in quite a while, since 10 packs is the same price.

They'll probably be about 50¢, maybe an early spike when everyone is after them.

Am I a terrible persons for wanting to buy intro decks to get non full art lands?

[Svata]

Nah, just a little odd.

[sonofzeal]

Green has vigilance, black has haste.

I was wrong about black and haste, but is vigilance really considered an associated keyword of Green? I count only ten creatures ever printed that are mono-green and have vigilance as a static keyword, and maybe half that number that grant it in some form or other. I wouldn't be surprised if, proportionately, it was more common on colorless.

[Androgeus]

I was wrong about black and haste, but is vigilance really considered an associated keyword of Green? I count only ten creatures ever printed that are mono-green and have vigilance as a static keyword, and maybe half that number that grant it in some form or other. I wouldn't be surprised if, proportionately, it was more common on colorless.

Vigilance is secondary in green

[sonofzeal]

Vigilance is secondary in green

.......I guess?

Still proportionately more common on colorless creatures, though.

[tgva8889]

Right, sorry, forgot. *grumbles* I think it'll make telling stories for each plane harder, but what do I know...

Actually, I think it will make it easier, because "it gets worse" isn't really a big story event, but that's often what happened in the second set story-wise. It's much better, in my opinion, to have one set that establishes the conflict and a second that creates a resolution. A set where we spend time watching things "get worse" isn't that interesting.