afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VI

[WalkingTheShade]

Strange idea. They sound more like the negative quasielementals. I mean, they even call them "dust" and the rest pretty clearly correspond too.

That's the same vibe I got from them. The major issue I have is I can't remember any fluff explaining how they come to be.
Then, one might just fluff them as negative quasielementals that can be turned, destroyed and wounded by a cleric's channeling of positive energy.

[Eldan]

I guess it would make sense that they are negative energy powered.

[Naanomi]

The distinction being, if I had to guess, is that negative quasielementals are made of negative stuff, where undead elemental snare made up of normal elemental stuff and just run off of negative energy? One wonders if an undead positive quasielemental would melt down under the dissonance?

[tzar1990]

Undersigil, a network of Tunnels, sewers and ruins, fills most of the Torus. Full of unpleasant things.

OK - does Undersigil just go down forever, or does it eventually stop, and what would one find there? And if it does have a bottom, what might you find if you tried to dig through it?

I'm fine if the answer's "undefined" or "featureless grey stone going on forever, now stop digging," just curious.

[Eldan]

I don't think there was ever all that much material on it, sorry. The dimensions of Sigil's Torus are pretty well known, though. You'd probably only dig down a few hundred feet before you fell out the bottom, so to speak.

As for the tunnels... think typical fantasy sewers, but bigger and more Planescapey. I'd imagine you'd find just about every monster down there. Forgotten artefacts. Cults not tolerated on the surface (they'd have to be pretty bad, the temple of the Abyss openly impales people on its spikes). Areas where the natural laws change, perhaps. Whatever the factions want to bury deep.

[Werephilosopher]

Is it Evil to trade in souls? Could Good characters trade them without risking an alignment hit?

Is it Good to free souls trapped in gems, that they might move on to their proper afterlife?

[Tzardok]

It is evil to destroy or corrupt souls, and as most beings that are interested in trading trapped souls wish to that, selling a soul is enabling an evil. By the same argument freeing a soul should be most of the time good, because it prevents this. Of course it gets a bit muddled when really vile souls are trapped, as you now have the dilemma of giving the fiends a new recruit (or, if the soul already IS a fiend, releasing an evil) against keeping a soul imprisoned.

[atemu1234]

It is evil to destroy or corrupt souls, and as most beings that are interested in trading trapped souls wish to that, selling a soul is enabling an evil. By the same argument freeing a soul should be most of the time good, because it prevents this. Of course it gets a bit muddled when really vile souls are trapped, as you now have the dilemma of giving the fiends a new recruit (or, if the soul already IS a fiend, releasing an evil) against keeping a soul imprisoned.

I think like most things shades of grey apply.

[afroakuma]

What happens to elementals when they die on their home plane? Do they dissolve back into the fabric of the plane, do they just cease to exist, are they temporarily discorporated, or something stranger?

On their home plane, elementals are essentially just spirits; when they die, the spirit goes where it belongs. In 99% of cases that means diffusing into the plane itself. Elementals do not die of "old age."

Also, if they do die, would it be possible for them to seek out some elemental analogue to undeath in order to escape?

As a different endgame for their spirit? They could, but it would be highly anathematic to them. An undead elemental is a warped existence that needs to bind itself to negatively-attuned materials to stabilize; such a being cannot simply continue to "be water" or "be earth" as casually as it once did.

Is it Evil to trade in souls? Could Good characters trade them without risking an alignment hit?

It's pretty uniformly evil to truck in souls. Even if you have a good intention such as putting it where it belongs (and that's really the only acceptable one), you're still giving money or barter to the kind of entity who would, you know, trade in souls. So at best your good intentions land in morally grey, and just about everything else is bad to the bone.

Is it Good to free souls trapped in gems, that they might move on to their proper afterlife?

Depends on whether or not they deserve to be alive and you're killing them instead of returning them to their bodies.

[WalkingTheShade]

As a different endgame for their spirit? They could, but it would be highly anathematic to them. An undead elemental is a warped existence that needs to bind itself to negatively-attuned materials to stabilize; such a being cannot simply continue to "be water" or "be earth" as casually as it once did.

Conjecture questions:

Can this process happen spontaneously? For example a fire elemental being too close to ash for a relatively long time? Or the same elemental being destroyed near the border between fire and ash, with enough of a grudge to want to come back?

Can this process be provoked deliberately? By what means?

[Mithosaurion]

Hello good Afroakuma! I am a growing fan of your breadth of knowledge though a first time user of one of these threads. I'm working my way through some of your old threads so forgive me if this has already been stated but I was wondering: where would I go about getting good info on the Spelljammer setting as of 3.5? Failing that, where would I get good info on spelljammer in general regardless of edition? I only have the barest scraps of knowledge of about the setting and I don't want to bore you with a laundry list of questions with simple or easily found answers.

Also, you mentioned a long time ago that you have a good star chart spelljammer. Do you know where I could get it?

Thank you ahead of time and again, sorry if my questions have already been asked to death.

[Mithosaurion]

AHA! I was a fool! I see now that you posted the star chart in the opening of this very thread. My apologies.

[WalkingTheShade]

where would I go about getting good info on the Spelljammer setting as of 3.5? Failing that, where would I get good info on spelljammer in general regardless of edition?

This looks to me like a good place to start, but I know next to nothing about Spelljammer.

[Adslahnit]

1. In the grand scale of things, just how important is the sliding of a gate-town from the Outlands to its connected plane? The adventure Fires of Dis makes it out to be a major event that a whole faction (the Harmonium) and one of the Lords of the Nine (Dis) would be invested in seeing happen (or seeing subverted).

2. Hellbound mentions that "For example, the Outlands see almost constant traffic of fiendish warriors. Baatorian and abyssal armies march across the lands in hopes of catching their enemies unaware, each looking to make a furious sneak attack on the home plane of the other." Would this not mean that the gate-towns receive a constant traffic of fiendish troops (possibly sneaking in disguise or invisible), especially Hopeless, which would see baatezu and tanar'ri alike seeking to join the action in Oinos?

3. The gate-town of Elysium is, during the day, ruled by the human fighter 16 Regialia Tonn, according to Dragon #351. However, she is also served by three solars: Hinkus, Blinkus, and Nod. Given the general lack of competence outside of combat a fighter 16 would have in D&D 3.5, how would this town's daytime rulership not just devolve into the much more intelligent, much wiser, much more charismatic, spellcasting-capable solars being the ones to run the town, while they use the silly fighter as a puppet and a figurehead?

Should Regialia Tonn be bumped up to at least level 20 in a much more noncombat-capable class if she wants to have a more legitimate shot at administrating her gate-town in a way that is not massively overshadowed by her three solars?

4. The guardinals hate the yugoloths, being their polar opposite. The gehreleths also have a deep-seated hatred for the yugoloths.

The guardinals are in need of constant reinforcement of the prisons of Belierin.
The gehreleths are experts in the field of imprisonment, being residents of Carceri.

The guardinals would like to take down as many yugoloths as they can, striking off into the Lower Planes if necessary.
The gehreleths wage a constant war against the yugoloths in Carceri to prevent the construction of the Tower of Incarnate Pain, which, if completed, would give the yugoloths an unprecedented new source of energy.

How likely is it that the guardinals would turn to the gehreleths and lend their aid in destroying the Tower of Incarnate Pain (which the guardinals would do anyway), in exchange for the gehreleths coming to Belierin and shoring up its wards? I imagine that such an operation would have to be carried out clandestinely by both sides.

5. What would happen if a gate-town was pulled heavily in the opposite direction of its plane? Say, the people of Hopeless being given emotion and sliding towards Neutral Good, the people of Automata staging an uprising and shifting to Chaotic Neutral, or the capitalism of Tradegate turning to its darker side and sliding the gate-town towards Neutral Evil/Chaotic Evil?

6. How often do baatezu and tanar'ri work directly against the yugoloths? They are not stupid, surely; they know that the yugoloths try to play both sides against each other, and they know that the yugoloths are effectively a third major side of the war. How reasonable would it be for, say, a group of pit fiends to try to browbeat and gain leverage and bargaining chips over a group of yugoloths through whatever means?

7. What is stopping the guardinals and the powers of Thalasia from getting their act together and eliminating the Thalastrom, an obviously foreign and destructive presence in the plane?

[WalkingTheShade]

3. The gate-town of Elysium is, during the day, ruled by the human fighter 16 Regialia Tonn, according to Dragon #351. However, she is also served by three solars: Hinkus, Blinkus, and Nod. Given the general lack of competence outside of combat a fighter 16 would have in D&D 3.5, how would this town's daytime rulership not just devolve into the much more intelligent, much wiser, much more charismatic, spellcasting-capable solars being the ones to run the town, while they use the silly fighter as a puppet and a figurehead?

Should Regialia Tonn be bumped up to at least level 20 in a much more noncombat-capable class if she wants to have a more legitimate shot at administrating her gate-town in a way that is not massively overshadowed by her three solars?

I played it out with the solars not being much interested by the day to day life of the town, but more active in spiritual affairs and big picture planar events. Regialia doesn't need to be a mighty fighter or grand administrator, just someone everyone else trusts to organize them, who knows how to delegate, and has a knack for being sociable, agreeable and understanding. This is a good settlement, tempered by neutrality, where everything is built neither on freedom nor custom, but on the free bonds of mutual trust. It needs a leader, but neither a bureaucrat, nor a minister, nor a commander.

The gehreleths are experts in the field of imprisonment, being residents of Carceri.

I see them as either inept jailers or actual prison bullies. Carceri itself is both the jail and the jailer. There's not much left to do to keep inmates in. Gehreleths are imprisonned by the plane as much as anyone else.

How likely is it that the guardinals would turn to the gehreleths and lend their aid in destroying the Tower of Incarnate Pain (which the guardinals would do anyway), in exchange for the gehreleths coming to Belierin and shoring up its wards? I imagine that such an operation would have to be carried out clandestinely by both sides.

I lulzed. I could use it as background for a fallen guardinal...

[Mithosaurion]

This looks to me like a good place to start, but I know next to nothing about Spelljammer.

Thank you! I would still like to hear Afroakuma's thoughts on the matter but this is very helpful.

Oh, I thought of a question to ask about the setting as well. I imagine given that it's a venerable setting that it has a lot of open ended unanswered questions in it. What I want to know is, can you give me one (an unanswered plothook) that I could research to base around an adventure for a 15th level party on a single aethercraft? Also, if you can give me one what would it be?

[enderlord99]

How likely is it that the guardinals would turn to the gehreleths and lend their aid in destroying the Tower of Incarnate Pain

Guardinals generally won't work with any sort of fiend; gehreleths would be willing, though reluctant, to work with celestials for the purpose of destroying the tower... but would completely betray them immediately afterward, and be unreliable at best until then.

in exchange for the gehreleths coming to Belierin and shoring up its wards?

No. No; no, no no NONONO. **** NO!

[Adslahnit]

I see them as either inept jailers or actual prison bullies. Carceri itself is both the jail and the jailer. There's not much left to do to keep inmates in. Gehreleths are imprisonned by the plane as much as anyone else.

What of the Shackled City adventure path? Was all that threat of Cauldron being dragged and imprisoned into Carceri through the magic of that plane just bluster?

Guardinals generally won't work with any sort of fiend; gehreleths would be willing, though reluctant, to work with celestials for the purpose of destroying the tower... but would completely betray them immediately afterward, and be unreliable at best until then.

Uncaged: Faces of Sigil contains Tripicus, an ursinal who runs an operation in Elysium that transports weapons from that plane over to baatezu and tanar'ri alike for the purpose of prolonging the Blood War, so there clearly have to be some guardinals out there who work with fiends for the greater good.

[afroakuma]

Conjecture questions:

Oh goodee. It's like walking into a candy store full of vegetables.

Can this process happen spontaneously? For example a fire elemental being too close to ash for a relatively long time?

Ash has nothing to do with undeath. It's the plane of ash.

Can this process be provoked deliberately?

What, creating an undead elemental? You can create undead other things, so presumably.

Hello good Afroakuma!

No such person exists.

where would I go about getting good info on the Spelljammer setting as of 3.5?

That would be here. The official fansite was always sporadic at best, and the Polyhedron mini-setting is a poor facsimile.

Failing that, where would I get good info on spelljammer in general regardless of edition?

The books themselves, and of course here. Other forums may have Spelljammer threads as well.

1. In the grand scale of things, just how important is the sliding of a gate-town from the Outlands to its connected plane? The adventure Fires of Dis makes it out to be a major event that a whole faction (the Harmonium) and one of the Lords of the Nine (Dis) would be invested in seeing happen (or seeing subverted).

It's relevant.

2. Hellbound mentions that "For example, the Outlands see almost constant traffic of fiendish warriors. Baatorian and abyssal armies march across the lands in hopes of catching their enemies unaware, each looking to make a furious sneak attack on the home plane of the other." Would this not mean that the gate-towns receive a constant traffic of fiendish troops (possibly sneaking in disguise or invisible), especially Hopeless, which would see baatezu and tanar'ri alike seeking to join the action in Oinos?

Multiple obscure and temporary portals are used. The gate-town portals are not tremendously useful for moving large-scale armies.

3. The gate-town

I wonder where you've been recently.

of Elysium is, during the day, ruled by the human fighter 16 Regialia Tonn, according to Dragon #351. However, she is also served by three solars: Hinkus, Blinkus, and Nod. Given the general lack of competence outside of combat a fighter 16 would have in D&D 3.5, how would this town's daytime rulership not just devolve into the much more intelligent, much wiser, much more charismatic, spellcasting-capable solars being the ones to run the town, while they use the silly fighter as a puppet and a figurehead?

First off, there's no basis for calling the fighter "silly." Secondly, solars are specialized entities who are not likely to be capable, even in the Vast Wisdom, of making the kind of decisions that a town needs to run on, especially one that's not supposed to slip onto Elysium. A non-celestial administrator almost certainly helps to ground the town in the Outlands where it belongs.

4. The guardinals hate the yugoloths, being their polar opposite. The gehreleths

I see where this is going and no.

How likely is it that the guardinals would turn to the gehreleths

Still no.

and lend their aid in destroying the Tower of Incarnate Pain

Not even a little bit.

(which the guardinals would do anyway)

In its current state? They absolutely would not.

5. What would happen if a gate-town was pulled heavily in the opposite direction of its plane?

It would autocorrect without them, given that every gate-town is permanently centered on an open rift to an Outer Plane.

Oh, I thought of a question to ask about the setting as well. I imagine given that it's a venerable setting that it has a lot of open ended unanswered questions in it. What I want to know is, can you give me one (an unanswered plothook) that I could research to base around an adventure for a 15th level party on a single aethercraft? Also, if you can give me one what would it be?

Are we talking about Planescape or Spelljammer, just so I'm clear which way we're going with this hook.

[enderlord99]

No such person exists.

You're good at things, and he said "good" not "Good"

[Adslahnit]

Multiple obscure and temporary portals are used. The gate-town portals are not tremendously useful for moving large-scale armies.

If these portals are so convenient that they can transport whole armies, then does that not diminish the importance of the gate-towns as the gateways from the Outlands to the rest of the Outer Planes?

I wonder where you've been recently.
portals are not tremendously useful for moving large-scale armies.

Reading through A Player's Primer to the Outlands.

First off, there's no basis for calling the fighter "silly."

From a 3.5 perspective, its overall lack of competence at actually doing anything outside of combat.

Secondly, solars are specialized entities who are not likely to be capable, even in the Vast Wisdom, of making the kind of decisions that a town needs to run on, especially one that's not supposed to slip onto Elysium. A non-celestial administrator almost certainly helps to ground the town in the Outlands where it belongs.

I was under the impression that gate-towns associated with the Outer Planes wanted to merge with their associated planes. Heart's Faith prospers while in Mount Celestia, and the majority of the people of Fortitude in the Fires of Dis adventure are eager to see their gate-town ascend towards Arcadia. Is this not the case?

I see where this is going and no.

Still no.

Not even a little bit.

In its current state? They absolutely would not.

I am running a campaign focused on the guardinals and have two separate plotlines in mind for the future:

1. The guardinals have to take down some kind of yugoloth fortress somewhere in the Lower Planes, but in order for the plan to be successful, they have to begrudgingly work with unlikely allies.

2. The wards over Belierin are slowly faltering, and the guardinals are desperate to shore them up somehow. In order for this to happen, the guardinals must, once again, begrudgingly work with unlikely allies.

I thought that the Tower of Incarnate Pain would be a good candidate for #1, and that the gehreleths would be a good candidate for unlikely allies in both #1 and #2.

If the guardinals would never assault the Tower of Incarnate Pain, and they would never work with the gehreleths either, then what can I use for the yugoloth fortress in #1? Perhaps the Tower of Incarnate Pain in a state nearing completion?

What can I use as the unlikely allies the guardinals have to begrudgingly work with in #1, and in #2?

It would autocorrect without them, given that every gate-town is permanently centered on an open rift to an Outer Plane.

How would this autocorrection work?

Also, I had added a sixth and a seventh question to my numbered list of questions earlier; could you please go over them?

[Mithosaurion]

We are talking about spelljammer in this case.

[Alea]

Are there any psionic fiends that a tiefling might descend from aside from the cerebrilith?

Asking for the purposes of this RPG SE question if you would prefer to answer there yourself.

[WalkingTheShade]

What of the Shackled City adventure path? Was all that threat of Cauldron being dragged and imprisoned into Carceri through the magic of that plane just bluster?

Through the magic of that plane is the interesting part. What I meant is: it's not the gehreleths that keep people in but Carceri that keeps them in. In the long run, what gehreleths do or don't in Carceri is not much relevant as to its overall capacity of imprisonment. Gehreleths are imprisoned by the plane as everyone else. Whatever claims the gehreleths can make as being jailors is unjustified boasting or self-delusion.

Uncaged: Faces of Sigil contains Tripicus, an ursinal who runs an operation in Elysium that transports weapons from that plane over to baatezu and tanar'ri alike for the purpose of prolonging the Blood War, so there clearly have to be some guardinals out there who work with fiends for the greater good.

That's the difference between a first-world country selling weapons to african governments, and a such a country sending soldiers to fight there.
Another opinion on the subject: in the long run, I'd believe that Tripicus' actions would lead him to fall. The nature of the Blood War is inherently Evil. One of the hypothesis about why yugoloths fane the flames and prevent it from stopping is that by it's very existence, the Blood War is a beacon of Evil that spreads corruption throughout the planes.

[Naanomi]

Most far realm flavored monsters are explicitly not from there... They are 'decendant' from them; or just manifestations of far planes stuff or energies born in our reality; or are
'Translated' to our reality as they come here.

The big exception are the Uvuudaum, who seem weird and powerful but... Consistent and comprehensible in a way that true denizens of the far realm are not.

Any reason for this? Are they in their true nature incomprehensible as well, but our broken minds just perceive them consistently? Are they an example of how even its own rules of maddening difference are not even consistently followed? A player in my campaign recently suggested they are the far realms equivalent of aboleths: unnatural aberrations born from ancient contact with our world 'tainting' the far realms.

Thoughts on this or any afrocannon on Uvuudaum?

[afroakuma]

If these portals are so convenient that they can transport whole armies

They are not tremendously convenient; they just happen to be a tactical option that has demonstrated some degree of utility.

then does that not diminish the importance of the gate-towns as the gateways from the Outlands to the rest of the Outer Planes?

Not even a little bit.

Reading through A Player's Primer to the Outlands.

Yes I know.

I was under the impression that gate-towns associated with the Outer Planes wanted to merge with their associated planes.

Not as a general rule, no. Various ambitions within those towns (and some without, on occasion) want to see the towns slide, but the optimal place for any town to be, respective to what that town is, is on the Outlands. While many citizens in the gate-towns of, say, Celestia and Arcadia as examples consider sliding in to be a demonstration of "worthiness," the simple fact is that a slide would devastate an entrenched community and radically alter the social order as what was once a place of note becomes another discarded scrap in a barren infinity. In the case of Elysium in particular, the mortal citizens have a very good reason not to want their town to slide - Elysium is toxic and they'd all be at risk of blissing out.

2. The wards over Belierin are slowly faltering, and the guardinals are desperate to shore them up somehow. In order for this to happen, the guardinals must, once again, begrudgingly work with unlikely allies.

Given the issues involved in Belierin I'd tap the modrons long before I'd involve fiends. They don't want fiends nosing around Belierin.

If the guardinals would never assault the Tower of Incarnate Pain, and they would never work with the gehreleths either, then what can I use for the yugoloth fortress in #1? Perhaps the Tower of Incarnate Pain in a state nearing completion?

I doubt they'd assault any of the canonical yugoloth fortresses; you could always make up a new one.

What can I use as the unlikely allies the guardinals have to begrudgingly work with in #1, and in #2?

#1 could reasonably be nearly anyone in theory, though in practice the guardinals are loath to work with fiends at all due to the potential for everything to go even worse than it was going. I doubt they'd involve noncelestial exemplars at all, though modrons might be possible. Any fiendish race would be a bad idea.

How would this autocorrection work?

Town's based around a gate to a powerful, pure expression of nonneutral alignment; it basically leaks "correction" constantly.

Also, I had added a sixth and a seventh question to my numbered list of questions earlier; could you please go over them?

Kindly move them to a new post in the future, it's much easier to address them in that fashion.

6. How often do baatezu and tanar'ri work directly against the yugoloths?

What, together? Rarely ever happens, the 'loths are good at stoking the mutual hatred and the two don't actually need an excuse to feud.

How reasonable would it be for, say, a group of pit fiends to try to browbeat and gain leverage and bargaining chips over a group of yugoloths through whatever means?

Eh, I mean, it's possible, but it's much like gaining leverage over some low-level Mafia goons - you will find the business end to be much worse, when it decides to come after you, than you could have ever fathomed.

7. What is stopping the guardinals and the powers of Thalasia from getting their act together and eliminating the Thalastrom, an obviously foreign and destructive presence in the plane?

"Obviously?" It's a storm. Infinite planar layer, they're going to exist somewhere. The fact that it's got some evil divine backing would also render it dark to conventional divine pings. The plot hook associated with it is "suspicions have been raised, it may be dealt with" but such dealing with tends to involve dispatching questing problem-solvers - adventurers, say - to handle the issue.

We are talking about spelljammer in this case.

Hm. There are certainly a number of things that could be explored... something involving a beholder or flayer planet; the k'r'r'r; undermining a scro quest to reawaken a witchlight marauder; seeking out the vanished Juna race; locating the homeworld of the alien gravs; finding the radiant golem and the strange asteroid from whence its metal came and solving the mystery behind its destroyed creator race... there are a lot of possibilities.

Are there any psionic fiends that a tiefling might descend from aside from the cerebrilith?

No. 1st Ed, I'd have said "yes, a great many."

Anyway, that's only for canonical monsters, and only because the supply sucks for subsystems outside of a few Dragon nods most of the time outside of direct supplementation. I would imagine that in addition to familiar varieties with some psionic talent, there are lesser-known yugoloths and especially tanar'ri with psionic ability.

In terms of psionic evil outsiders, you have a bit more leeway, though it's really not the same thing - shadow efts and quori, for instance.

[Mithosaurion]

Hm. There are certainly a number of things that could be explored... something involving a beholder or flayer planet; the k'r'r'r; undermining a scro quest to reawaken a witchlight marauder; seeking out the vanished Juna race; locating the homeworld of the alien gravs; finding the radiant golem and the strange asteroid from whence its metal came and solving the mystery behind its destroyed creator race... there are a lot of possibilities.

Thank you so much! Those are awesome ideas. I'll be giving them a look to see what I can come up with for major plots.

EDIT: I've been looking at the K'r'r'r, They are pretty terrifying. I know you hate speculation questions but how do you think their fleet would do against the elven fleet?

[WalkingTheShade]

Would you give the mildly positive/negative dominant trait to the quasielemental planes? If so, how would the doomguard fortresses guard against it?
What other interesting or unexpected traits would you give some of them?

What's your assessment of the general quality of the Timaresh wiki at rilmani.org?

[Adslahnit]

While many citizens in the gate-towns of, say, Celestia and Arcadia as examples consider sliding in to be a demonstration of "worthiness," the simple fact is that a slide would devastate an entrenched community and radically alter the social order as what was once a place of note becomes another discarded scrap in a barren infinity.

What about Heart's Faith in Mount Celestia? It seems to be doing fairly well for itself, and it even has a strong connection to Excelsior and vice versa.

In the case of Elysium in particular, the mortal citizens have a very good reason not to want their town to slide - Elysium is toxic and they'd all be at risk of blissing out.

What would be the main argument against Ecstasy sliding into Elysium if a more 2e-leaning interpretation of Elysium is taken, that is, there is no entrapping trait?

I doubt they'd assault any of the canonical yugoloth fortresses; you could always make up a new one.

What about the Tower of Incarnate Pain actually nearing completion, with the yugoloths more brazenly building it?

#1 could reasonably be nearly anyone in theory, though in practice the guardinals are loath to work with fiends at all due to the potential for everything to go even worse than it was going. I doubt they'd involve noncelestial exemplars at all, though modrons might be possible. Any fiendish race would be a bad idea.

What would be the main obstacles for a temporary alliance between the guardinals and the modrons? The modrons' alien lawfulness is the obvious sticking point, but how could that manifest in a way that generates friction with the guardinals?

Also, who do the modrons send out if they need agents who can compete with balors and pit fiends? Their hierarchs are too firmly entrenched in modron society, and the non-hierarchs are too weak. Perhaps specially-made inevitables?

What, together? Rarely ever happens, the 'loths are good at stoking the mutual hatred and the two don't actually need an excuse to feud.

I was referring to baatezu and tanar'ri separately, not together.

Eh, I mean, it's possible, but it's much like gaining leverage over some low-level Mafia goons - you will find the business end to be much worse, when it decides to come after you, than you could have ever fathomed.

What about if those pit fiends were to try to gain leverage over similarly high-level yugoloths, like ultroloths? The daemonic manipulators of the Blood War are nobody to trifle with, but high-level baatezu are no small deal either.

Also, what is the absolute best place in Elysium that a 20th-level caster can hide out in, if they do not wish to be found by yugoloths by any mundane or magical means whatsoever, yet still live out a comfortable life in? Somewhere in Belierin? One of Elysium's many divine realms? A divine realm in Belierin, like Nut's?

[afroakuma]

I've been looking at the K'r'r'r, They are pretty terrifying. I know you hate speculation questions but how do you think their fleet would do against the elven fleet?

I don't think you'd see such a full-scale conflict occur, since the k'r'r'r spread out from their space in many directions and the elven fleet tends to cluster around a particular region, so any encounter would be (potentially all elves) vs. (subsection of k'r'r'r).

What other interesting or unexpected traits would you give some of them?

I have nowhere near enough energy to address this right now. I'll get back to you.

What's your assessment of the general quality of the Timaresh wiki at rilmani.org?

It exists.

What about Heart's Faith in Mount Celestia?

It's a rebuilt city in a cliffside run by lammasu and policed by lammasu, many of whom don't want to let you leave even if you're going to another Upper Plane. This is obviously a very optimal situation for the mortals who live there; it's great to be permanently excluded from the local power structure thanks to not being born a leonine winged outsider. There's also severe suspicion and rigidity afoot. Oh yes, and it routinely floods, but I suppose those are good and wonderful floods as opposed to everything-is-waterlogged floods and the town had no need of a shore level, what with having a harbour and all.

What about the Tower of Incarnate Pain actually nearing completion, with the yugoloths more brazenly building it?

What about it? If you want to use it, go nuts, I can't stop you.

What would be the main obstacles for a temporary alliance between the guardinals and the modrons? The modrons' alien lawfulness is the obvious sticking point, but how could that manifest in a way that generates friction with the guardinals?

Uh, modrons will trample to death any living thing in their path once they've determined it's the right way to go. It's pretty damn easy to concoct "friction."

Also, who do the modrons send out if they need agents who can compete with balors and pit fiends?

Hierarchs.

inevitables?

Modrons have nothing to do with inevitables.

What about if those pit fiends were to try to gain leverage over similarly high-level yugoloths, like ultroloths? The daemonic manipulators of the Blood War are nobody to trifle with, but high-level baatezu are no small deal either.

Trying to gain leverage over an ultroloth is the height of stupidity.

Also, what is the absolute best place in Elysium that a 20th-level caster can hide out in, if they do not wish to be found by yugoloths by any mundane or magical means whatsoever, yet still live out a comfortable life in?

There's no place to hide that you cannot conceivably be found. Elysium doesn't allow for magical occlusion. The best you could hope for is that they search poorly.