[Pathfinder] Dreamscarred Press FAQ

[Air0r]

Path of War/Archetype question:
It came up in another thread that levels in a class that aren't normally an initiator and taking an initiating archetype limits you to strictly to the archetype initiator chart. but I had always assumed the chart was to indicate a classes slower progression and lack of maneuvers above 6. Am I wrong in having assumed all this time that initiator level was still tracked normally for these archetypes for the purposes of acquiring maneuvers and stances(half of levels in other classes + the initiating class in question)? Or do archetypes really get the short end here?

[Powerdork]

Path of War/Archetype question:
It came up in another thread that levels in a class that aren't normally an initiator and taking an initiating archetype limits you to strictly to the archetype initiator chart. but I had always assumed the chart was to indicate a classes slower progression and lack of maneuvers above 6. Am I wrong in having assumed all this time that initiator level was still tracked normally for these archetypes for the purposes of acquiring maneuvers and stances(half of levels in other classes + the initiating class in question)? Or do archetypes really get the short end here?

It's been oft-mentioned in the PoW threads: The maneuvers gained by virtue of Archetype Maneuver Progression are limited according to the table, but maneuvers from other sources (prestige class, Advanced Study) can be advanced with IL's normal limit, rather than the table limit.

[Draacul]

Path of War/Archetype question:
It came up in another thread that levels in a class that aren't normally an initiator and taking an initiating archetype limits you to strictly to the archetype initiator chart. but I had always assumed the chart was to indicate a classes slower progression and lack of maneuvers above 6. Am I wrong in having assumed all this time that initiator level was still tracked normally for these archetypes for the purposes of acquiring maneuvers and stances(half of levels in other classes + the initiating class in question)? Or do archetypes really get the short end here?

Are you asking whether"level" in table 5-1:Archetype Maneuver Progression refers to class level or initiator level?
"The maneuvers gained by virtue of Archetype Maneuver Progression are limited according to the table"
Not necessarily.The said table isn't part of class abilities...i think...which is why it might refer to initiator level.
In any case,initiator level is tracked normally,but at worst you can't pick higher-level maneuvers anyways.

[upho]

Path of War/Archetype question:
It came up in another thread that levels in a class that aren't normally an initiator and taking an initiating archetype limits you to strictly to the archetype initiator chart. but I had always assumed the chart was to indicate a classes slower progression and lack of maneuvers above 6. Am I wrong in having assumed all this time that initiator level was still tracked normally for these archetypes for the purposes of acquiring maneuvers and stances(half of levels in other classes + the initiating class in question)? Or do archetypes really get the short end here?

The errata has clarified maneuver progression, and there are no murky or not yet explained related areas remaining AFAIK.

Let's say you're a 6th level character with levels only in the barbarian with the primal disciple archetype, and that you're now about to level up to 7th level. Should you take an additional level of barb, your barb IL would increase to 7 (just as if you only had levels in an initiator class), and your maneuver progression and max maneuver level would be set by the Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. Meaning you'd gain one additional maneuver known and one additional stance of max 3rd level.

Should you instead take levels in a PoW PrC, your barb IL will increase normally, but you'd use the PrC's maneuver progression and you'd no longer be bound by the barb's max maneuver level. Instead, your max maneuver level would be dictated by your barb IL, just as it would've been dictated by say your warlord IL had you taken warlord levels instead of barb levels.

And should you have say 6 levels in the barb, then take 10 levels in a PoW Prc, and then take an additional level of barb at 17th character level, your maneuvers would still be set by you barb level, not IL, according to Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. So for the purpose of determining the max maneuver level you may learn through the barb's maneuver progression when gaining that 7th level of barb, your PrC levels are irrelevant and you'd still be limited to max 3rd level. But should you also take the Advanced Study feat when gaining that 17th level, the max level of the maneuver(s) granted by that feat would be 9th, as determined by your barb IL.

Are you asking whether"level" in table 5-1:Archetype Maneuver Progression refers to class level or initiator level?
"The maneuvers gained by virtue of Archetype Maneuver Progression are limited according to the table"
Not necessarily.The said table isn't part of class abilities...i think...which is why it might refer to initiator level.
In any case,initiator level is tracked normally,but at worst you can't pick higher-level maneuvers anyways.

It refers to class level, as explained by the Maneuvers feature of each such archetype (my emphasis):

"The [archetype name] learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as indicated on Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through [archetype name] levels is limited by those listed in that table as well, although this restriction does not apply to maneuvers added to his maneuvers known through other methods, such as prestige classes or the Advanced Study feat."

[Air0r]

The errata has clarified maneuver progression, and there are no murky or not yet explained related areas remaining AFAIK.

Let's say you're a 6th level character with levels only in the barbarian with the primal disciple archetype, and that you're now about to level up to 7th level. Should you take an additional level of barb, your barb IL would increase to 7 (just as if you only had levels in an initiator class), and your maneuver progression and max maneuver level would be set by the Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. Meaning you'd gain one additional maneuver known and one additional stance of max 3rd level.

Should you instead take levels in a PoW PrC, your barb IL will increase normally, but you'd use the PrC's maneuver progression and you'd no longer be bound by the barb's max maneuver level. Instead, your max maneuver level would be dictated by your barb IL, just as it would've been dictated by say your warlord IL had you taken warlord levels instead of barb levels.

And should you have say 6 levels in the barb, then take 10 levels in a PoW Prc, and then take an additional level of barb at 17th character level, your maneuvers would still be set by you barb level, not IL, according to Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. So for the purpose of determining the max maneuver level you may learn through the barb's maneuver progression when gaining that 7th level of barb, your PrC levels are irrelevant and you'd still be limited to max 3rd level. But should you also take the Advanced Study feat when gaining that 17th level, the max level of the maneuver(s) granted by that feat would be 9th, as determined by your barb IL.

It refers to class level, as explained by the Maneuvers feature of each such archetype (my emphasis):

"The [archetype name] learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as indicated on Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through [archetype name] levels is limited by those listed in that table as well, although this restriction does not apply to maneuvers added to his maneuvers known through other methods, such as prestige classes or the Advanced Study feat."

I was asking more from the perspective of when multi-classing happens, though I think you may have answered that fairly solidly. this seems very odd to me, almost counterproductive to what I thought was their design paradigm.

[upho]

I was asking more from the perspective of when multi-classing happens, though I think you may have answered that fairly solidly. this seems very odd to me, almost counterproductive to what I thought was their design paradigm.

I kinda agree. Considering the lower max level cap reduces power quite considerably anyways, I'd prefer that cap to be dependent on archetype IL instead. This would also make the archetypes conform better to the standard rules of initiator classes, the only difference being that archetype IL gives a lower max level cap on maneuvers granted by archetype levels. I definitely think the maneuver progression itself should otherwise remain level dependent though, just as it is for initiator classes.

And yeah, according to the current rules, multi-classing increases archetype IL normally, which unfortunately doesn't affect the max level cap of maneuvers granted by archetype levels in any way.

EDIT: Seems like a house rule easy and risk free to implement though. /EDIT

[Kashwak]

Hello to all.

Just a quick question. Can i enchant a gun with psionic weapon properties? Only want to make sure because the description of the Collision property.

Thanks a lot.

[digiman619]

Hello to all.

Just a quick question. Can i enchant a gun with psionic weapon properties? Only want to make sure because the description of the Collision property.

Thanks a lot.

As you can see here, to make psionic weapons, you need the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. If that's something you can do (I.e., you have a caster level or have the Master Craftsman feat), then you can totally use it to make a psionic weapon. Just note that unless you have someone who can manifest the approrpriate power, the DC to make the item goes up by 5.

[Giddonihah]

Does the Ambush Hunter animal companion use the Non-Initiator Archetype Table for selecting its maneuvers?
Does said Animal Companion have any way of retraining its Maneuver choices outside of death?

[upho]

Does the Ambush Hunter animal companion use the Non-Initiator Archetype Table for selecting its maneuvers?

The rules are not clear on this. I would however believe it's a safe to assume the intent was they should follow that table. A word from the dev would be appreciated!

Does said Animal Companion have any way of retraining its Maneuver choices outside of death?

RAW, I believe the AC can only retrain its maneuvers by using the retraining rules. And I wouldn't be surprised if this restricted retraining was intentional, since the AC has all maneuvers it knows readied at all times and may thus spam its highest level maneuvers anyways (provided its master can keep expending maneuvers, of course).

[Elricaltovilla]

Does the Ambush Hunter animal companion use the Non-Initiator Archetype Table for selecting its maneuvers?
Does said Animal Companion have any way of retraining its Maneuver choices outside of death?

Just like the class that the animal companion is a class feature of, the animal companion uses the archetype maneuver progression table.

By RAW, the animal companion cannot retrain maneuvers except through the retraining rules.

[Mithril Leaf]

Quick Psionic question:
Does the Boost Construct feat allow the option of gaining two of a lower level Menu Option, like how the base Menu Options do? For example if I were a 7th level Shaper Psion with the Boost Construct feat, and decided to gain as many options as I could from Menu A, how many total options from Menu A would I have? My guess is either 5 or 6, hoping for 6 (Two from the base Menu B choice, two from the Menu B choice from Summoner's Call, and theoretically one or two from Boost Construct lowered to Menu A).

[ChrisAsmadi]

I'm currently making a Dex-based Warder (Zweihander Sentinel, Bushi) and I'm wondering - if you have Daisho Expertise, does it function as Weapon Finesse while using a Katana as an Armament Shield, or will I need to take Weapon Finesse as well?

[Elricaltovilla]

I'm currently making a Dex-based Warder (Zweihander Sentinel, Bushi) and I'm wondering - if you have Daisho Expertise, does it function as Weapon Finesse while using a Katana as an Armament Shield, or will I need to take Weapon Finesse as well?

As long as you're wielding a katana or wakizashi you're good, even if you're using it as a shield.

[ChrisAsmadi]

As long as you're wielding a katana or wakizashi you're good, even if you're using it as a shield.

In that case, would the shield damage get bumped up from 1d3 to 1d4?

[upho]

In that case, would the shield damage get bumped up from 1d3 to 1d4?

RAW, no. Just as your shield damage won't increase if you decide to wield a greatsword instead of a longsword. IOW, note that armament shield damage is based on that of the light shield, not on that of whatever weapon you're holding, while DE increases the damage of the katana or wakizashi you're holding.

[Giddonihah]

Thanks for the answer on my last Ambush Hunter question. I have another one.

I seem to have a hard time parsing the Pack Savagery ability with Golden Lion Boosts (Primal Fury seems pretty straight forward)
I think it boils down to that I am unsure what it means by we both get the "benefits" of the boost.

1.Is this effectively both of us acting as if we individually activated the boost?
2. Is the boost (performed by PC) activated by the Animal Companion immediately despite it not being their turn? Even if the AC is flatfooted still?
3. Does only getting the 'benefits' once mean that you only get one 5 ft step from Circling Prey instead of two?

[ATalsen]

RAW, no. ... note that armament shield damage is based on that of the light shield, not on that of whatever weapon you're holding, while DE increases the damage of the katana or wakizashi you're holding.

I'm not entirety certain that is correct.

• Armament Shield states: "the weapon is treated as a light shield for the purposes of performing a shield bash"
• Daisho Expertise states: "Increase the damage die of katanas and wakizashi you wield by one die step." and "you may use your Dexterity ... when making attack rolls"

So, by treating it as a light shield do you STOP treating it like a Katana?

I believe in most cases of 'treated like x' the item is effectively both things. If its both things, then you do increase the dice size of the damage for the Shield Bash due to Daisho Expertise.

Now, if your take on things is that you do indeed stop treating it like a Katana, then you don't increase the damage, nor can you use Dex to hit with it.

I'm not sure there's a definitive way in which 'treated as' has ever been defined as working. I myself lean toward the 'both' interpretation.

[exelsisxax]

Thanks for the answer on my last Ambush Hunter question. I have another one.

I seem to have a hard time parsing the Pack Savagery ability with Golden Lion Boosts (Primal Fury seems pretty straight forward)
I think it boils down to that I am unsure what it means by we both get the "benefits" of the boost.

1.Is this effectively both of us acting as if we individually activated the boost?
2. Is the boost (performed by PC) activated by the Animal Companion immediately despite it not being their turn? Even if the AC is flatfooted still?
3. Does only getting the 'benefits' once mean that you only get one 5 ft step from Circling Prey instead of two?

It means any primal fury or golden lion boost activated by either of you provides the benefits to both. If you boost pride movement, an ally adjacent to each of you and your AC get a free action move action. If the other allies are flat-footed, they are incapable of taking advantage of the movement. It doesn't matter if one of you is flat-footed for the purposes of the boost effects being applied, only possible actions that may be granted by the boost.

I'd say that circling the prey does not provide 2 5'-steps. Your AC isn't activating it a second time, they just work as a second source that only matters if they or other allies are outside the normal range of the boost. In any case, things don't stack with themselves. If you have Dodge, and an ally somehow gives you Dodge, your AC doesn't go up.

[IZ42]

This seems like the better place to ask, as it's more active. Reposting my question from the DSP PoW:E Thread:

I encountered an odd contradiction in the Void Prophet archetype for the Zealot. Endless Hunger (gained at 3rd level) says that I may "...may attempt to add a creature who fails its saving throw against one of her strikes to her collective..." and if the strike does not normally allow for a save "...the creature must instead succeed at a Will save...", which is all fine and dandy, but then it states "The void prophet can only use this ability with strikes that allow a saving throw," which is a direct contradiction to the previous statement IMO.

I'm also seeking clarification that with Endless Hunger, strikes that target multiple creatures would require each one hit to make a saving throw, rather than just one of my choosing. In addition, would the above save benefit from the increased DC (+2, iirc?) of using a discipline weapon when activating a maneuver. For example, would activating Piercing Thunder and hitting one or both targets with it require the base DC (10+1/2 level+Init. Mod) or the boosted DC of a discipline weapon (10+1/2 level+Init. Mod+2)?

[Air0r]

Are there any plans of releasing Third Dawn campaign setting any time soon? or at least a races of third dawn series? that one has a lot you could draw from your old 3.5 Races of the Mind releases, but there are new races, and some things have changed (elan's coming from more than just humans and having a bit of a 'snatch you away in the middle of the night' feel is a good example).

[Elricaltovilla]

This seems like the better place to ask, as it's more active. Reposting my question from the DSP PoW:E Thread:

I encountered an odd contradiction in the Void Prophet archetype for the Zealot. Endless Hunger (gained at 3rd level) says that I may "...may attempt to add a creature who fails its saving throw against one of her strikes to her collective..." and if the strike does not normally allow for a save "...the creature must instead succeed at a Will save...", which is all fine and dandy, but then it states "The void prophet can only use this ability with strikes that allow a saving throw," which is a direct contradiction to the previous statement IMO.

I'm also seeking clarification that with Endless Hunger, strikes that target multiple creatures would require each one hit to make a saving throw, rather than just one of my choosing. In addition, would the above save benefit from the increased DC (+2, iirc?) of using a discipline weapon when activating a maneuver. For example, would activating Piercing Thunder and hitting one or both targets with it require the base DC (10+1/2 level+Init. Mod) or the boosted DC of a discipline weapon (10+1/2 level+Init. Mod+2)?

It's a failsafe against some of the strikes that allow a save, but can have it removed through other means. There are a few Sleeping Goddess Strikes that do this.


The maneuver allows a save so it's a legal choice, but that save can be removed, so text has to be included to cover that situation.

Endless hunger requires a save for each creature targeted, iirc. And if you are wielding the appropriate weapon you would get the +2 save DC bonus.

[IZ42]

It's a failsafe against some of the strikes that allow a save, but can have it removed through other means. There are a few Sleeping Goddess Strikes that do this.


The maneuver allows a save so it's a legal choice, but that save can be removed, so text has to be included to cover that situation.

Endless hunger requires a save for each creature targeted, iirc. And if you are wielding the appropriate weapon you would get the +2 save DC bonus.

Thanks a bunch.

[Wartex1]

I have a question that's mostly about thematics rather than mechanics.

Which discipline best matches a theme of "darkness" (not evil, but the same darkness that Mystics use for the darkness glyph)? On a similar note, which one best matches illumination?

For the first one, I'm thinking Veiled Moon or Cursed Razor, and for the latter, I'm thinking Solar Wind or Radiant Dawn, but can't decide between them.

I'm mainly just trying to get a discipline for each glyph (the four elemental ones are Elemental Flux and the metal one is Steel Serpent).

EDIT: Also I swear there was a feat that allowed me to substitute Animus for PP and Essence but I can't find it.

[Elricaltovilla]

I have a question that's mostly about thematics rather than mechanics.

Which discipline best matches a theme of "darkness" (not evil, but the same darkness that Mystics use for the darkness glyph)? On a similar note, which one best matches illumination?

For the first one, I'm thinking Veiled Moon or Cursed Razor, and for the latter, I'm thinking Solar Wind or Radiant Dawn, but can't decide between them.

I'm mainly just trying to get a discipline for each glyph (the four elemental ones are Elemental Flux and the metal one is Steel Serpent).

EDIT: Also I swear there was a feat that allowed me to substitute Animus for PP and Essence but I can't find it.

You want the fear awakened animus for PP. There isn't one for essence afaik.

As for thematics... Veiled Moon is stealth based so I guess that flies for darkness ( although I always saw it as purple). Solar Wind is fire, not light. You want Radiant Dawn or Silver Crane I suppose. Mechanically, silver crane offers some similar benefits with its perception based stuff. But Darkness, Metal and Illumination aren't intended to have those kind of ties.

[Sorek]

Spoiler: Awakened Blade: Path of the Warrior

Show

Path of the Warrior

The awakened blade’s trip along the Path of War is one of constant devotion, and for those with a focused aptitude in the field of war with the psionic arts, their discipline is rewarded.

If the character possesses levels in psychic warrior, then he adds his class level to his psychic warrior level for the purposes of determining the trance and maneuver abilities of his path abilities. If the character possessed levels in the soulknife base class, then the awakened blade counts all levels in this class as +1 to existing manifester level with regards to a soulknife’s mind blade enhancement bonus.

1.Does a Soulknife need to be at least 3rd level where he gains the Enhanced Mindlade class feature to take advantage of the AB Path of the Warrior class feature? Or is one level of Soulknife sufficient?

2. Similary does a PsyWarrior need to be at least 3rd level where he gains the

Spoiler: Expanded Path

Show

Expanded Path

At 3rd level, the psychic warrior expands his understanding of his chosen path. From this point on, he can use the Trance and Maneuver associated with his chosen path.

class feature to take advantage of the AB Path of the Warrior class feature? Or is one level of PsyWarrior sufficient?

3.For a multiclassed character with one level of Soulknife and one level of PsyWarrior and 5 levels of AB, will AB's Path of the Warrior progressBOTH abilities so that the character has a Mindblade AND the Trance and Manuevers =to 6th level Soulknife and 6th level PsyWarrior?

[exelsisxax]

Spoiler: Awakened Blade: Path of the Warrior

Show

Path of the Warrior

The awakened blade’s trip along the Path of War is one of constant devotion, and for those with a focused aptitude in the field of war with the psionic arts, their discipline is rewarded.

If the character possesses levels in psychic warrior, then he adds his class level to his psychic warrior level for the purposes of determining the trance and maneuver abilities of his path abilities. If the character possessed levels in the soulknife base class, then the awakened blade counts all levels in this class as +1 to existing manifester level with regards to a soulknife’s mind blade enhancement bonus.

1.Does a Soulknife need to be at least 3rd level where he gains the Enhanced Mindlade class feature to take advantage of the AB Path of the Warrior class feature? Or is one level of Soulknife sufficient?

2. Similary does a PsyWarrior need to be at least 3rd level where he gains the

Spoiler: Expanded Path

Show

Expanded Path

At 3rd level, the psychic warrior expands his understanding of his chosen path. From this point on, he can use the Trance and Maneuver associated with his chosen path.

class feature to take advantage of the AB Path of the Warrior class feature? Or is one level of PsyWarrior sufficient?

3.For a multiclassed character with one level of Soulknife and one level of PsyWarrior and 5 levels of AB, will AB's Path of the Warrior progressBOTH abilities so that the character has a Mindblade AND the Trance and Manuevers =to 6th level Soulknife and 6th level PsyWarrior?

By RAW, no. AB will not advance either of these features until they are unlocked.

However, you cannot possibly have a psywar 1/soulknife 1/AB 5, so it probably isn't actually going to come up in the way you think.

[Sorek]

By RAW, no. AB will not advance either of these features until they are unlocked.

However, you cannot possibly have a psywar 1/soulknife 1/AB 5, so it probably isn't actually going to come up in the way you think.

the " psywar 1/soulknife 1/AB 5" was a bad example

my actual character is a psywar 2/soulknife 2/ stalker 2. I'm looking to prestige into Awakened Blade at 7th level and trying to figure out if I need to take a 3rd level of Soulknife and Psywar to allow AB's Path of the Warrior feature to progress the SK's Mindblade and the Psywars Trance and Maneuver

[Elricaltovilla]

You can't advance a class feature you don't possess.

[Sorek]

You can't advance a class feature you don't possess.

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated