Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

[Xondoure]

Just found this guide and I have to say it's the most useful I've come across for the Magus. Quick question: if one was to go with a bastard sword for a strength build bladebound for flavor reasons what if any adjustments are needed to make that work? Seems like you lose 10% chance on crit for spellstrike in exchange for a slightly more damaging weapon, but since critical spells seems to be the entire point I'm wondering if it's worth it.

[Kurald Galain]

Just found this guide and I have to say it's the most useful I've come across for the Magus. Quick question: if one was to go with a bastard sword for a strength build bladebound for flavor reasons what if any adjustments are needed to make that work? Seems like you lose 10% chance on crit for spellstrike in exchange for a slightly more damaging weapon, but since critical spells seems to be the entire point I'm wondering if it's worth it.

Critical spells aren't the entire point, not by a long shot. I suggest checking the sections on Role of the Magus, and the two sample builds that aren't about damage.

[Florian]

Just found this guide and I have to say it's the most useful I've come across for the Magus. Quick question: if one was to go with a bastard sword for a strength build bladebound for flavor reasons what if any adjustments are needed to make that work? Seems like you lose 10% chance on crit for spellstrike in exchange for a slightly more damaging weapon, but since critical spells seems to be the entire point I'm wondering if it's worth it.

Sure. It´s the difference between a "burst" and "static" damage builds, same decisions and alterations you'd have to make for a Fighter or Paladin. Using a Bastard Sword on a STR-based build will have you switch between a 1H and 2H grip and this is where Power Attack comes in. You'd also not use Shocking Grasp as workhorse spell, but rather something that works over multiple hits.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I've been there, not wanting to use a scimitar. But there are now more straight weapons with that nice 18-20 crit range. The rhoka is an option, if you don't mind your sword lookin' a bit silly. The estoc works for both a strength and dex build, weirdly enough, and while it may sound like a giant rapier, it was actually closer to real-life longswords. But honestly, while not having a massive crit range may not be optimal, it really isn't entirely necessary.

[upho]

The rhoka is an option, if you don't mind your sword lookin' a bit silly.

A bit silly? A giant squarish barbecue fork with a short handle and an over-sized hilt is a bit silly?

Spoiler: Urdefhan weapon design brilliance

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Makes me wonder what a sword would have to look like in order for you to consider it really silly...

The estoc works for both a strength and dex build, weirdly enough, and while it may sound like a giant rapier, it was actually closer to real-life longswords. But honestly, while not having a massive crit range may not be optimal, it really isn't entirely necessary.

Totally agree, on both points. The magus in my current game uses a whip with great results (though I wouldn't necessarily recommend that unless the game gives some combat feat taxes for free).

And now I feel I must add something less silly to counter-weight the silliness above...

Spoiler: Actually brilliant weapon design

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I think the estoc would be a very good choice if you decide to go for the crit route. And IMO it definitely looks like the very real and deadly weapon it actually is, rather than an over-sized toy...

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I was actually referring to this iteration:

Spoiler: Still a typical fantasy sword, but one I wouldn't mind as much as the tuning fork in the urdefhan art

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And, if you don't mind the eye-rolls, there's still katanas.

[upho]

I was actually referring to this iteration:

Still a typical fantasy sword, but one I wouldn't mind as much as the tuning fork in the urdefhan art

I agree, that is actually a bit less silly than the urdefhan tuning fork. I think the artist who made the fork either had no idea of what an actually useful weapon looks like, or wished to bring one of the more absurd stylistic elements of manga into an otherwise naturalistic piece for some weird reason.

And, if you don't mind the eye-rolls, there's still katanas.

Seriously though, I think katanas as well as the truly outrageously stupid PF weapons (dire flail, anyone?) are perfectly fine. And the truth is I've even made arguably more stupid steam-powered weapons for my game's setting. So I guess I've basically just made some really poor HEMA-biased art critique?

(Depending on the setting, my only issues with the katana would perhaps be the name and some specific design elements being so closely tied to RL Japanese history and culture. So stuff very easily changed.)

[Kurald Galain]

Added a section on Mythic options. They are a mixed bunch; overall mythic paths are extremely powerful (particularly the Archmage), and there are a few good mythic spells; on the other hand the feats and items are rather lacklustre and/or overpriced, except for the feats that just give you more path abilities. Legendary items are a pretty good option, and combine nicely in fluff with a Bladebound.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Champion path at all, it has several very nice abilities. Clean Blade is good for crit-fishers, Precision will bolster up your full attacks, Fleet Warrior is move+full attack as a constant, Critical Master follows up on critfishing builds wonderfully, Shatter Spells is basically a beefed-up arcana, and I even had an idea that used Sweeping Strike with a whip while polymorphed into a Huge creature for maximum reach.

[Florian]

Ja, that's pretty odd. Magus has the same problem with Mythic that basically all later or advanced classes have, being hybrids, they've got to chose the dual path route to support both sides of their functionality, Magus being pretty much the poster child for Champion and Archmage.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Champion path at all, it has several very nice abilities. Clean Blade is good for crit-fishers, Precision will bolster up your full attacks, Fleet Warrior is move+full attack as a constant, Critical Master follows up on critfishing builds wonderfully, Shatter Spells is basically a beefed-up arcana, and I even had an idea that used Sweeping Strike with a whip while polymorphed into a Huge creature for maximum reach.

Those are indeed some good abilities, but they're just not as game-changing as the Trickster or especially Archmage.
Clean Blade, randomly sickening an enemy that you weren't attacking just isn't that impressive.
Precision is very good, no argument there. In fact, it's probably better on a Magus than on anyone else.
Fleet Warrior is great, but it's basically a free version of something the Magus can already do (either with Fleet Charge or with Bladed Dash).
Critical Master is amazing.
Shatter Spell is also something the Magus can already do, with his regular spells.
Sweeping Strike is basically Whirlwind Attack, which is rarely seen because attacking one enemy five times is just better than attacking five enemies once.

Note also that this list has only one tier-1 ability, and half of them require tier 6. I don't mean to imply that the other three paths are bad or anything (if they were, I would have marked them red for 'trap'). I just find the three I've listed more impressive, and more useful if you have just one or two mythic tiers.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

The base champion abilities are no slouch either, particularly the swift action move+attack. And, spells run out, even for a magus. I didn't mention things like the possible speed boost. All it takes is Dual Path at tier 1.

[Kurald Galain]

The base champion abilities are no slouch either, particularly the swift action move+attack.

Yes, but trickster gets the same ability.

Either way, yes you probably want Dual Path on a Magus, with one of them being Archmage.

[Florian]

The Circle of Order arcana (Disciple´s Doctrin) is a weird one: A +1/2 Magus level dodge bonus to AC against chaos-related effects (swift action, 1 point, lasts until beginning of next turn). In more focussed campaigns (say Kingmaker, RotR, WotR), that's actually a good defensive arcana.

So, Mythic Adventures...

"Godlings" are an option from Mythic Origins. As usual, Desna is the interesting one here by giving the Throwing and Return qualities to a weapon and resolving interactive attacks as the weapon "bouncing" to further targets beyond the first. The way this SP is worded is interesting in regards to spellstrike, as it would mean that all targets are affected by one spellstrike.

Juggernaut is actually a fun Champion path ability for a STR-based Magus by letting you make one free break object check (doors, cover, walls, etc.) as part of a charge, with a +10 bonus when you expend a MP.

Mortal Herald grants access to one domain and it costs 1 MP to use one domain spells as a SLA.

[Kurald Galain]

New book? New book.

Let's check the new arcana. Wave Step is pretty much the same as Aquatic Agility. Book-Bound is really bad, it gives a concentration bonus while preventing you from using spell combat. Circle of Order is... ok, I guess? Chaotic-aligned attacks are rare to the point of nonexistence, but chaotic outsiders are a not-too-uncommon enemy. I think that's all but googling d20pfsrd is not so reliable. Did I miss anything?

[Florian]

Did I miss anything?

Maybe the Numerology Cylinder and Spectacles of Comprehension.

[Serafina]

Charlatans Cope increases the DC to identify your spells by 10, which is a hefty bonus, and it's reasonably cheap and on the body slot.
Of course, most Magi don't care about that much, so it's rather specialized.

Numeroligical Cylinder is a slotless +2 Insight to caster level checks, for only 5000 gp (one use per day that lasts 24 hours, with infinite uses). Which is something you'll want once you can afford it, unless you already get such an insight bonus.

Tome of Forgotten Epithets is expensive (108k), but is effectively slotless 50 uses of Mind Blank. That's cheaper than the equivalent in scrolls (at 2160gp per use, while a scroll costs 3000 gp), and Mind Blank is usually not a spell that a Magus can cast, and that this would be an item you purchase for the entire group, it's worth considering in a good number of circumstances.

[Kurald Galain]

Added book-bound, wave step Tabris's step, and circle of order (which upon reflection gets a red rating for being inferior to Spell Shield). Numerology Cylinder is an easy blue rating and frankly something every mid-level caster wants. The spectacles, cope, and tome are decent enough items, but there's no particular reason why a Magus would want one. This covers Disciple's Doctrine.

[nerious]

How does the arcana Natural Spell Combat work?Is it legal to make magus attacking many times with one natural attack?

[Kurald Galain]

How does the arcana Natural Spell Combat work?Is it legal to make magus attacking many times with one natural attack?

Spell combat normally only uses your hands - one hand to cast, another hand to make weapon or claw or slam attacks. NSC lets you add e.g. a horn or bite to that routine.

[nerious]

Spell combat normally only uses your hands - one hand to cast, another hand to make weapon or claw or slam attacks. NSC lets you add e.g. a horn or bite to that routine.

Emmm.....My first language is not English, the sentence make me confused.Can a bab6+ magus make a horn attack more than once with NSC?
Thx

[Kurald Galain]

Emmm.....My first language is not English, the sentence make me confused.Can a bab6+ magus make a horn attack more than once with NSC?
Thx

No, it would be claw / same claw at -5 / horn / spell.

[nerious]

No, it would be claw / same claw at -5 / horn / spell.

Thank you.
There is another question:Can the spell Weaponwand make a magus use wand in SC without Wand Wielder?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

No, you still couldn't use a wand in SC without Wand Wielder. The main purpose of Weaponwand is to free up a hand; I would use it with a wand of True Strike to move into position and cast TS, then step up the next round casting one of my big spells using Spell Combat.

[Kurald Galain]

Since the question comes up a lot, I've added a section on adventuring with a low strength score. Turns out that it's entirely feasible to play a melee combatant with an 8 or 10 strength, assuming Weapon Finesse.

[solaris23]

Hi, I came up with a pretty good build for an esoteric Magus, though it only comes online at level 10.

The essence of this build is Martial Versatility, so you have to be some kind of human and you can only pick it up once you get to level 10 (because of fighter training).

Feats required are: Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike, Martial Versatility, Ascetic Style and Ascetic Form.

Martial Versatility:
Benefit: Choose one combat feat you know that applies to a specific weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus). You can use that feat with any weapon within the same weapon group.

Ascetic Style:
Benefit(s): Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.

Ascetic Form
Benefit(s): You can use the chosen melee weapon with any class ability that can be used with an unarmed strike, such as an unchained monk’s style strike ability. In addition, you are treated as a monk with a level equal to your character level for the purpose of determining the number of times per day that you can use feats with uses per day that depend upon your monk level, such as the Stunning Fist or Perfect Strike feats.

By having these 3 Feats, you can apply your Arcane Pool to all of your natural attacks (with a single use), particularly nice, impact.
You can also apply the monk damage progression to all your natural attacks. At level 10, turning into a 4 Armed Gargoyle, that's 6 primary attacks with 10 feet that all deal 2d8. But turning them into impact weapons treats them as a size higher, so they would be at 3d8. Now if you had a wand of Strong Jaw your claws could count as 2 size categories bigger, which would make them colossal at 6d8. At level 20 that could be as high as 12d8.
.

The weapon sizes comes from different sources. One is because you're a larger. One is a weapon enchantment. One is a spell.

More good news, since you can apply all feat or class feature dependent improvements to your natural attacks, you can deliver touch spells with any of them. I'm sure there are some ki dependent feats you could throw into the mix but I don't know too much about it.

The muscle magus casts fist.

[khadgar567]

i am gonna let kurald dismantle the build as magus focuses on crit not monk damage progression to do his job. so muscle magus fails to cast fist.

[Kurald Galain]

i am gonna let kurald dismantle the build as magus focuses on crit not monk damage progression to do his job.

Not necessarily. As the handbook shows, it's a very versatile class; not a one-shock pony.

At level 10, turning into a 4 Armed Gargoyle, that's 6 primary attacks with 10 feet that all deal 2d8. But turning them into impact weapons treats them as a size higher, so they would be at 3d8. Now if you had a wand of Strong Jaw your claws could count as 2 size categories bigger, which would make them colossal at 6d8. At level 20 that could be as high as 12d8.

That said, I would like to see some DPR calculations to see how this stacks up to a baseline Magus; there's more to DPR than having large weapon base damage. Bear in mind that you're spending three feats, and getting less feats and no spell recall for being an eso, and using a swift action each combat, and diminishing your spellcasting. That sounds like a pretty harsh tradeoff.

you can apply your Arcane Pool to all of your natural attacks (with a single use)

It strikes me that this combo lets you apply AP to a natural attack (which you normally cannot do); not to all of them at once. The baseline AP ability is clear that you can only enhance one weapon at the time; nothing in this combo overrides that. Finallly, at level 10 you simply cannot afford an impact AOMF and a strong jaw wand (and I'm reasonably sure the two don't stack anyway).

So it's a neat trick, but it's also a very expensive trick, and you haven't really shown how much you'd gain from it.

[Florian]

At level 10, turning into a 4 Armed Gargoyle

Or just use a Kasatha as your base race, gets you "Four Armed" right from the get-go.

[solaris23]

Or just use a Kasatha as your base race, gets you "Four Armed" right from the get-go.

Do they get 6 natural attacks?

I did some calculating, I come up with a 550 damage average per round (level 20) once you're set up with haste, monstrous physique 2, vine strike and chill touch. I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement.
Oh yeah, you'd have to pick up bane and devoted blade arcana and of course an amulet of mighty fists. And the obligatory belt of strength and some manual of strength +5.