Darths and Droids V: Thread IV Was Eaten By Dogs

[Porthos]

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I think you just got spoiled by Badass Space Princess from the first movie.

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She was also pretty badass in RotJ.

Spoiler: BIG BIG BIIIIIIG SPOILERS ABOUT TFA!!!!

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I kid, but only partly. Because I totally agree with you, Leia was pretty wasted in TFA. She was just.... there. And even in the big emotional scene after Han died, she just sidesteps Chewbacca, despite his being virtually glued to Han's side for 30 years and presumably being super close (emotionally, at the very least) to Leia as well. Contrasted to her shooting at invading space soldiers,
mouthing off to their terrifying commander, enduring torture without giving up intel, mouthing off to a space soldier who came into her prison cell for unknown reasons, rescuing her own rescuers when they didn't have an escape route... badass space princess.

Vs. stands around talking to Han, and hugs Rey while ignoring Chewie.

Spoiler: Still BIG BIG BIIIIIIIG SPOILERS ABOUT TFA

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Yeah, pretty much. Such a waste.

Speaking of...

Don't get me started about Han's death.

While what all you said is true, my issue is more that Han went out like a punk. Again, I get form and function. Make the characters (and audience) hate Klyo Ren. Make Kylo Ren commit to the Dark Side. Get all of that.

Still, I hate the fact that Han was all but stuffed in a fridge to make folks in the film angry and couldn't go out like the hero he was.

It's not like Obi-Wan in SW where it was a moment of self-sacrifice. It's not even like Qui-Gon in TPM because at least he was in the middle of a fight.

Just... annoys me on a plot level to see a major character go out like that.

It's not a deal breaker or anything. Might even rise to the level of nitpicky. But it's a personal gripe over the plot that was chosen even if I realize WHY it was done and even if other people really liked the fact that expectations were subverted.

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Also, you didn't like the Rathtar scene? Because I always felt like what Star Wars needed was more Benny Hill.

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There's just something about it you know. A je ne sais quoi. I'm not against weirdness and sillyness in SW. More the better, in fact. Gimme my Weird Star Wars. It's what helps separate it from the pack in many ways.

But someone up thread made a complaint about "Not Star Wars" and talked about how TFA felt like a generic action flick at times and THAT scene felt more like Generic Action Movie Scene than anything else I saw in it.

Its. Eh. Just... Well, didn't work for me and I'll leave it at that.

[Peelee]

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There's just something about it you know. A je ne sais quoi. I'm not against weirdness and sillyness in SW. More the better, in fact. Gimme my Weird Star Wars. It's what helps separate it from the pack in many ways.

But someone up thread made a complaint about "Not Star Wars" and talked about how TFA felt like a generic action flick at times and THAT scene felt more like Generic Action Movie Scene than anything else I saw in it.

Its. Eh. Just... Well, didn't work for me and I'll leave it at that.

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I'm sure at some point you've noticed that I have a tendency to not read between the lines sometimes, so forgive me
if I'm being a bit obtuse here. But I was joking about defending the Rathtar scene.

And to be more precise, Finn and Poe took me out of the movie and made it feel not-Star-Wars-y. The way their lines were written, and the way they delivered them, it just seemed really out of place. Rey knocked her lines out of the park, as did everyone else. And I really like Finn, except for the way he talked. Poe, though, just keeps slipping down every time I watch it. I love the bromance, but I really hope the new director gets them to deliver their lines better.

Maybe they just need to be told to do it faster, and more intensely.

[Porthos]

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I'm sure at some point you've noticed that I have a tendency to not read between the lines sometimes, so forgive me
if I'm being a bit obtuse here. But I was joking about defending the Rathtar scene.

Ah, my mistake. Def misread your comment.

I believe the phrase I need to use to describe my mistake is: "I am not a very smart man" at times

[Peelee]

Ah, my mistake. Def misread your comment.

I believe the phrase I need to use to describe my mistake is: "I am not a very smart man" at times

It serves me well. That way, before anyone can cut me down, they just kind of pause and think, "well, at least he knows."

[keybounce]

Again, thank you for spoilering those.

[DataNinja]

Again, thank you for spoilering those.

All good. I know exactly how hard it can be to both be involved in a community, and yet remain blind to new stuff until you experience it for yourself. So, the least I can do is be as helpful as possible when on the other side of the equation.

[Porthos]

Again, thank you for spoilering those.

Speaking of...

With regard to the lack of opening crawl, I do make mention of that in an upcoming annotation. You'll see that comment from me in about a week.

The rest of those spoilers I did not open.

Did this get posted and I missed it or did the CI cut it for space?

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Is there a Directors Cut or Special Edition of your annotations we can look forward to?

[keybounce]

Hmm, let me recheck the annotations ...

EDIT: I don't know what happened. I had the first 4 annotations written and sent in before the first episode was published. I know I made reference to the lack of opening crawl at some point (third annotation, I think), but it looks like it was clipped out during editing. It's not in my copy.

So, whoopsie, but it looks like I edited out a paragraph by accident.

[Porthos]

So, whoopsie, but it looks like I edited out a paragraph by accident.

Blame Lucas.

...

That is to say, thanks for checking.

[runeghost]

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There's just something about it you know. A je ne sais quoi. I'm not against weirdness and sillyness in SW. More the better, in fact. Gimme my Weird Star Wars. It's what helps separate it from the pack in many ways.

But someone up thread made a complaint about "Not Star Wars" and talked about how TFA felt like a generic action flick at times and THAT scene felt more like Generic Action Movie Scene than anything else I saw in it.

Its. Eh. Just... Well, didn't work for me and I'll leave it at that.

Spoiler: Still spoilers for TFA

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I feel what everyone's talking about with the Rathtar scene not quite feeling like Star Wars. (Although having a big, weird alien monstrosity certainly is Star Wars.) I didn't wreck the film for me or anything, But it didn't quite feel right.

My assumptions has been that the Rathar scene we got to see was something other than what had originally been planned. That the original scene went by the wayside after Harrison Ford got a piece of set dropped on him and broke his leg.

I know something similar happened with the first LotR movie. The party leaves Lorien, and then Boom, they're at Rauros and there's a the fight with the orcs. There was originally supposed to be an action sequence where they have to make it through rapids on the river. (The rapids of Sarn Gebir, which the Fellowship un-excitingly but intelligently portaged around in the book.) That would have fit quite well, I think. But the whole (real, outdoor) set was trashed by a flood at the last minute, and we ended up with what we saw.

[Peelee]

Spoiler: FOTK spoilers, and minor ones at that. You should watch Kevin Smith talk about a giant spider instead.

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It only recently struck me, but I think Kevin Smith inadvertently helped nail it down for me.

So, if anyone hasn't seen An Evening with Kevin Smith, it's an absolutely delightful watch. You get to see how the guy just really loves storytelling, and just how good at it he is. He gives just the right amount of detail, he nails vocal inflections during the back and forth between him and whoever he's talking to, and they're loaded with humor. Anyway, one of my stories he tells is about how he nearly wrote the then-much-anticipated new Superman movie (what eventually turned up being Superman Returns). I wouldn't want to ruin it for anybody, save that it involves Jon Peters and a giant freaking spider. In all honest, if you haven't seen it, just google "kevin smith giant spider." It's not a short story - none of the ones he tells in that film are - but it's hilarious.

Anyway. One of the big things Jon Peters took issue with was the script. Now, this was Kevin Smith writing, so there was obviously tons of dialogue, because that's just what he does. But Peters said, "too much talking, not enough action. You need more action. Every ten pages, there needs to be an action scene."

That is what I felt the new Star Wars movie was. A Jon Peters, Rathtar-needing (Rathtars are the fiercest killers in the alien kingdom), too-much-action-stuffed type movie. Every ten pages, there's an action scene. Practically every time characters meet, there's an action scene. Poe and Finn escaping the Star Destroyer. Rey and Finn fighting random mooks, each other, the First Order, and TIE/fo fighters. Rey, Finn, and Han with the Rathtars. Hell, I think Leia was the only one to not meet someone without an action scene. Travel to a new planet? Expect an action scene within ten minutes. I think they mostly avoided this when establishing Rey, which combined with my other complaints about dialogue make me wonder if most of the content with Rey was handled by someone, well, competent.

Most, of course, being the operative word.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Hey, a crossover with the Harry Potter verse.
I guess this place is part of the Floo-network

Can you imagine Hagrid with access to Star Wars creatures?
The poor Hogwarts students would be in permanent danger.
Even more so than usual that is.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The very fact of Hogwart's continued existence should be considered sufficient proof for felony child endangerment convictions against every adult magic user in Britain.

[stsasser]

New comic

Hey, a crossover with the Harry Potter verse.
I guess this place is part of the Floo-network

Can you imagine Hagrid with access to Star Wars creatures?
The poor Hogwarts students would be in permanent danger.
Even more so than usual that is.

'I always wanted a Sith Lord', looking fondly at an infuriated but baffled Darth Norbert.

[keybounce]

The very fact of Hogwart's continued existence should be considered sufficient proof for felony child endangerment convictions against every adult magic user in Britain.

No, it's our culture, our heritage, it's how we've always done it, why change now?

[Kantaki]

No, it's our culture, our heritage, it's how we've always done it, why change now?

And that children is the reason wizards still live in caves on trees.

[Nerd-o-rama]

"Whimsical throwbacks to 1910s and earlier British culture are silly" -J.K. Rowling for three books

"No wait they're actually insane and terrifying" - J.K. Rowling for five+ books

[Keltest]

I have to wonder, did the GM actually neglect to make NPC notes for Bria, under the assumption that the PCs would just ignore her anyway? He seems somewhat less confidant doing her than normal NPCs.

[DataNinja]

I have to wonder, did the GM actually neglect to make NPC notes for Bria, under the assumption that the PCs would just ignore her anyway? He seems somewhat less confidant doing her than normal NPCs.

To be fair, the one way to guarantee that your PCs will interact with any NPC is to have no notes for them. PCs can smell a noteless, unimportant, NPC a mile away. And they will immediately latch on and make you regret it.

[Peelee]

Imagine if you would, that you were a mathematician working for the NSA. Or, a real-life weapons expert, or even researcher, working for the government. Say for example, the entire nuclear bomb program. Bria would consider somebody like that to be a traitor to the general population. Merely because he is working for the Empire, he is considered a traitor to the Rebellion in the Galaxy. Without any regard for whether or not that maybe that's the only place where he could get a job.

Imean, researchers who can be involved in weapons work for governments are not generally renowned for their unemployability. And it's not like there aren't real-world parallels (which we certainly should not delve into any further here than acknowledging that parallels exist). Some slack should be cut, at least this early on.

[aurilee]

Imean, researchers who can be involved in weapons work for governments are not generally renowned for their unemployability. And it's not like there aren't real-world parallels (which we certainly should not delve into any further here than acknowledging that parallels exist). Some slack should be cut, at least this early on.

"Early on" is the key. In the early days of most..."regimes" let's call them...it isn't always clear what they'll turn into or how the research will be used.

It's the people that stay on once it's obvious what's happening (and they have an opportunity to leave) or people who join once things are in full swing that are the real trouble (trying to not use overly inflammatory language here...).

I'm reminded of that Voyager episode about how Neelix's home planet/moon was destroyed (a bad, ham-fisted episode, but it's relevant). The scientists are sometimes put into bad spots, and really need to be judged on a case by case basis. Blanket statements don't accomplish much.

Pivoting back to Star Wars, in the world of Darths and Droids, the Empire (and Emperor) have *very* positive propaganda going, so it's easy to see how a wide-eyed scientist could be brought into the fold.

[Peelee]

I'm reminded of that Voyager episode about how Neelix's home planet/moon was destroyed (a bad, ham-fisted episode, but it's relevant).

Blarg. Now I'm reminded of that Voyager crewman Neelix (a bad, ham-fisted character). I'll never forgive you!

[aurilee]

Blarg. Now I'm reminded of that Voyager crewman Neelix (a bad, ham-fisted character). I'll never forgive you!

I don't know how anyone can get anywhere near a conversation about Jar Jar/the prequels and *not* be reminded of Neelix.

That spotty hedgehog was the prototype for JJB.

At least, that's what keeps me from completely forgetting him.

I'll just continue to pass along the pain. ^_^

[Peelee]

I don't know how anyone can get anywhere near a conversation about Jar Jar/the prequels and *not* be reminded of Neelix.

That spotty hedgehog was the prototype for JJB.

At least, that's what keeps me from completely forgetting him.

I'll just continue to pass along the pain. ^_^

Look, you have no argument from me that both are horrible characters. But Neelix had more screen time and focus, by virtue of being in a decently-long-running TV show vs a few movies and the occasional episode of a tv show, so he gets more hate.

[aurilee]

Look, you have no argument from me that both are horrible characters. But Neelix had more screen time and focus, by virtue of being in a decently-long-running TV show vs a few movies and the occasional episode of a tv show, so he gets more hate.

This is true.

Also I really liked Kes' character. So having Neelix always being around her made it worse.

I think though, that having watched all of Voyager made me a little numb to Neelix by the end. My brain just sort of shut off whenever he opened his mouth, and turned on again in time to see Tuvok staring him down.

[Peelee]

This is true.

Also I really liked Kes' character. So having Neelix always being around her made it worse.

I think though, that having watched all of Voyager made me a little numb to Neelix by the end. My brain just sort of shut off whenever he opened his mouth, and turned on again in time to see Tuvok staring him down.

Frankly, the show hit its peak when you saw the Doctor singing, then a giant Doctor head appeared to the side singing in harmony. Best shot, best joke, best storyline, etc. My enjoyment of Voyager was directly proportional to how much each episode focused on the Doctor, to be fair.

[aurilee]

Frankly, the show hit its peak when you saw the Doctor singing, then a giant Doctor head appeared to the side singing in harmony. Best shot, best joke, best storyline, etc. My enjoyment of Voyager was directly proportional to how much each episode focused on the Doctor, to be fair.

For me it was the Doctor, Kes and Naomi Wildman (once she appeared) because she was adorable.

The Doctor was something special though. The level of ham and cheese that guy could deliver was unmatched.

[Peelee]

For me it was the Doctor, Kes and Naomi Wildman (once she appeared) because she was adorable.

The Doctor was something special though. The level of ham and cheese that guy could deliver was unmatched.

Kes was great, I just wasn't a fan of where they took her character. Sadly, I can't remember anything about Naomi Wildman, even after checking Memory Alpha, so I'm not sure if she didn't do anything for me or if I was completely checked out of the entire series except for the Doctor by then.

But yeah, Star Treks almost always manage to completely nail their science/med officers. Spock, Data, EMH, they're all some of the best characters in their show. Doctor is my all-time favorite, though, for exactly the reasons you said.

[keybounce]

My favorite voyager characters: Doctor, 7 of 9. Hmm, aliens. Oh, the vulcan whats-his-name was good, but its hard for star trek to do a bad vulcan.

I did not hate, or even dislike Neelix.

The worst? That bleep bleep with the Kazon for two years. I cannot believe that they were originally expected to last the life of the series as the new "klingon" type opponents.

Voyager did not really hit its stride (my opinion) til year 4. The early ones were hits and misses.

Oh, the other worst: That 2 episode time-travel "year to forget" thing. Great premise, but absolutely horrid execution.

Janeway ...

[BannedInSchool]

My favorite voyager characters: Doctor, 7 of 9. Hmm, aliens. Oh, the vulcan whats-his-name was good, but its hard for star trek to do a bad vulcan.

I did not hate, or even dislike Neelix.

I was going to say that even annoying, crap-head Neelix had some character, not just characteristics, unlike the human characters on Voyager. The stand-out characters seem to me to be ones that gave the writers some handle on conflict and motivation.