LGBTAI+ #56: Prismatic Spray!

[golentan]

Honestly Lucy didn't bother me that much. Yeah the entire premise was based on a science meme that was thoroughly debunked years prior, but I've seen better hollywood flicks kicked off with less. The first Matrix had one of the biggest plot holes in sci-fi history but it didn't get in the way of a genuinely enjoyable and thought-provoking romp, at least not until the sequels showed up and piddled all over everything the original had built. Though I guess I'm not exactly making myself feel any better since the Wachowskis were behind those too

The plot hole makes sense (assuming you're talking about the battery thing) if you assume that the machines are the good guys, willing to hinder their own energy reserves to preserve the species that tried to genocide them, and that one of the reasons the humans only recruit child soldiers is because they don't understand thermodynamics and can be readily convinced of the evil of the machines without noticing the key phrase of Morpheus's speech: "Combined with a form of fusion..."

The Matrix is from the Human point of view. It's propaganda!

[Athedia]

Honestly Lucy didn't bother me that much. Yeah the entire premise was based on a science meme that was thoroughly debunked years prior, but I've seen better hollywood flicks kicked off with less. The first Matrix had one of the biggest plot holes in sci-fi history but it didn't get in the way of a genuinely enjoyable and thought-provoking romp, at least not until the sequels showed up and piddled all over everything the original had built. Though I guess I'm not exactly making myself feel any better since the Wachowskis were behind those too

See, I study neuroscience and for me it is a big deal. I have to deal with people wondering if I am working to "unlock the secrets of the mind". No, no. We are just trying to figure the bloody thing out since the instruction manual got tossed with the packaging. So it adds to the many misconceptions about my chosen area of study. It was never a science meme either. It was a layperson no fumdamentally misunderstands science interpretation of how brain activity works.

[Psyren]

"Combined with a form of fusion..."

Thing is though, if the machines can generate a net positive energy in a closed system via this "form of fusion," why do they need people-batteries at all? Also, where are the humans in Zion getting THEIR food? Where is that energy coming from, with no sun?

Again, if my brain could skip over that massive hole, Lucy is no problem at all. I mean, a magical wonder-drug COULD do all that stuff to her to make the plot work, and hell she might secretly even be a latent mutant/psion or something, and Morgan Freeman's explanation for it all is simply the wrong one.

See, I study neuroscience and for me it is a big deal. I have to deal with people wondering if I am working to "unlock the secrets of the mind". No, no. We are just trying to figure the bloody thing out since the instruction manual got tossed with the packaging. So it adds to the many misconceptions about my chosen area of study. It was never a science meme either. It was a layperson no fumdamentally misunderstands science interpretation of how brain activity works.

Layperson meme then. Either way, soft science (or non-science if you prefer) is nothing new to Hollywood.

If even one teenager walked out of that movie thinking science was cooler than they did going in, I'd say Luc Besson did something praiseworthy.

[Morcleon]

Thing is though, if the machines can generate a net positive energy in a closed system via this "form of fusion," why do they need people-batteries at all? Also, where are the humans in Zion getting THEIR food? Where is that energy coming from, with no sun?

People batteries are used to generate the initial stream of energy, and it's kept as an anachronistic form of power generation despite being both inefficient and nonrenewable (*glares at fossil fuel power plants*).

Geothermal power, I'd assume. And probably growing plants underground using artificial lighting and such.

[Psyren]

Geothermal power, I'd assume.

Then why aren't the machines using that for their initial stream of energy? They have access to far more of the "geo" than the humans do (since there is only one human city left), and it's certainly much more efficient energy-wise than eating something that eats something that itself comes from the geothermal energy, with entropy occurring at every step.

Aren't machines supposed to be efficient and logical?

[noparlpf]

Has anyone else been watching Sense8? My guy and I just started it on a date night, and while it has a very Wachowski/Cloud Atlas habit of confusingly lurching between main character perspectives, both the sci-fi premise and LGBT-friendliness of it are exceedingly cool.

I'm only two episodes in so please no spoilers!

I've heard it was amazing from some other queer tumblrs and stuff but haven't gotten to it myself.

See, I study neuroscience and for me it is a big deal. I have to deal with people wondering if I am working to "unlock the secrets of the mind". No, no. We are just trying to figure the bloody thing out since the instruction manual got tossed with the packaging. So it adds to the many misconceptions about my chosen area of study. It was never a science meme either. It was a layperson no fundamentally misunderstands science interpretation of how brain activity works.

I only took a few neurobio courses in undergrad (my degree is general mammalian bio and I'm aiming for vet school) but that was enough to make "Lucy" physically painful to sit through.

[Morcleon]

Then why aren't the machines using that for their initial stream of energy? They have access to far more of the "geo" than the humans do (since there is only one human city left), and it's certainly much more efficient energy-wise than eating something that eats something that itself comes from the geothermal energy, with entropy occurring at every step.

Aren't machines supposed to be efficient and logical?

You could also ask why we haven't switched to solar power, despite having an inordinately large source of it (the sun).

Yes, but they're machines made by humans, so they probably share a lot of human traits (see Agent Smith, for example).

[Psyren]

You could also ask why we haven't switched to solar power, despite having an inordinately large source of it (the sun).

I already know the answer to that question We aren't run by logical machines that would seek the most efficient source of power; we're run by a complex array of sociopolitical and economic factors that very often make irrational decisions (especially long-term ones) as a result.

Unless by "we" you meant the humans of the Matrix world, where apparently solar is no longer an option anyway.

Yes, but they're machines made by humans, so they probably share a lot of human traits (see Agent Smith, for example).

Except Smith is identified as an aberration even by the other programs. The ones that actually run things are (purportedly) logical, at least until he corrupts them.

[Threadnaught]

“We are not going to bow. We are not going to bend, and if necessary, we will burn.”

So if there are less homophobes, wouldn't that be a good thing?

The we implies a group of people planning to burn themselves, if they want to create a bonfire and give everyone else the excuse to have a fireworks display, why should anyone stop them?


Also Coidzor wasn't saying that people should be punished for thinking wrong, just that they shouldn't be allowed to think wrong. If we're so enlightened, then why should anyone be allowed to think wrong?

[noparlpf]

So if there are less homophobes, wouldn't that be a good thing?

The we implies a group of people planning to burn themselves, if they want to create a bonfire and give everyone else the excuse to have a fireworks display, why should anyone stop them?


Also Coidzor wasn't saying that people should be punished for thinking wrong, just that they shouldn't be allowed to think wrong. If we're so enlightened, then why should anyone be allowed to think wrong?

Please don't go down this line of discussion again. We got a warning already.

[Threadnaught]

Please don't go down this line of discussion again. We got a warning already.

Yeah, best not to mention the hate speech, better to just quietly look forward to the dancing.

[golentan]

Thing is though, if the machines can generate a net positive energy in a closed system via this "form of fusion," why do they need people-batteries at all? Also, where are the humans in Zion getting THEIR food? Where is that energy coming from, with no sun?

Spoiler: Complete Tangent on the Matrix

Show

They DON'T need people batteries. The people batteries are wasting power that could keep Machines alive, in order to keep humans alive, because the machines are the good guys and are magnanimous in victory, having gone to the trouble of creating a whole artificial playground to keep humans maximally happy but say "no, you're not allowed to genocide us like you tried to." They even tried to make it basically heaven with everything perfect first, and then had to tone down the happy for later iterations of the matrix because humans refuse to accept that much happy. The fusion provides the power, and the only thing that the pods built up around the humans do is limit some of the wasteage, and there's always wasteage because humans are energy negative. The people batteries capture (say 20% of) the power lost by keeping the humans alive and channel it back in the system for reuse because at the scale of hanging onto a people reserve of this nature that's a huge amount of power, they don't provide power in the first place.

That was my point. Let go of the propaganda that Morpheus feeds you, he was indoctrinated as and indoctrinates child soldiers, he is not a reliable source. The agents may be jerks, but they are working to stop a terrorist faction (those article clippings we see indicate morpheus is not above blowing up an airport to get attention, as do the instructions on dealing with humans before the Lobby Scene) using child soldiers from attempting genocide on their species (again) AND from dumping however many million/billion souls from the lives they've built up with friends and loved ones into a blasted wasteland where many of them will starve to death or will have their heart give out because their ancestors decided to literally go scorched earth (and good luck finding your spouse, or your child in a crowd of millions of refugees without any contact information).

Plus the agents are willing to negotiate with humans who play nice with them, I have no reason to believe that Smith was planning to backstab Cipher, and indeed if Smith had played fair he had a better chance of helping clear out the resistance entirely and get his wish of not having to be in the Matrix anymore, go back to the real world and download into a squiddie or something. I don't know.

And as for fusion vs. geothermal... Well, there are oceans FULL of hydrogen, and it's not like they need to worry about the long term impact on the biosphere, and someday they can probably just load up all their citizens onto a single storage mechanism and commute themselves to Jupiter or something.

*Ahem* On topic now, does anyone else watch Last Week Tonight? The main story (which is posted on youtube) is all about Trans Rights. Trigger warning, frank discussion of transphobia, but he's firmly on the side of "STOP DOING THAT TO THE TRANS FOLKS YOU MONSTERS!"

[Astrella]

I haven't seen it, but I've heard from a few other trans women that it was pretty good apparently.

[Athedia]

Just found out that my mom didn't know the ace colors til yesterday. She also asked to learn what demi-sexuality is. She is a lot more comfortable than she was two years ago and that makes me so happy :D

EDIT: Actually a little bummed now. I watched the John Oliver piece and while it was very good something he said really hurt. When he is talking about gender identity vs orientation, he says sexual attraction is who you love. As a biromantic asexual that hurt a lot since I have experienced a lot of people delegitimizing my relationships, telling me they aren't real or that I can't love the person I am dating.

[Threadnaught]

Trigger warning, frank discussion of transphobia, but he's firmly on the side of "STOP DOING THAT TO THE TRANS FOLKS YOU MONSTERS!"

Cis-gendered people should be made to spend time in Trans people's shoes.
I'm not saying they should be forced to transition, but if they're unable to understand how some people feel forced to be the wrong body then they may be less problematic after re-education, maybe they could see that they may have been born wrong too.

[golentan]

Just found out that my mom didn't know the ace colors til yesterday. She also asked to learn what demi-sexuality is. She is a lot more comfortable than she was two years ago and that makes me so happy :D

EDIT: Actually a little bummed now. I watched the John Oliver piece and while it was very good something he said really hurt. When he is talking about gender identity vs orientation, he says sexual attraction is who you love. As a biromantic asexual that hurt a lot since I have experienced a lot of people delegitimizing my relationships, telling me they aren't real or that I can't love the person I am dating.

~hugs~ I have no doubt that your love is real, I'm sorry if you felt excluded.

[CWater]

Just found out that my mom didn't know the ace colors til yesterday. She also asked to learn what demi-sexuality is. She is a lot more comfortable than she was two years ago and that makes me so happy :D

That's great! :D It really feels nice when people around you acknowledge who you are and that your orientation is really 'a thing'. I used to have no one who knew or especially understood what demi was, but now my dad, aunt, cousin (who is bi/pan herself) and some friends do, or at least try. It feels surprisingly nice.

EDIT: Actually a little bummed now. I watched the John Oliver piece and while it was very good something he said really hurt. When he is talking about gender identity vs orientation, he says sexual attraction is who you love. As a biromantic asexual that hurt a lot since I have experienced a lot of people delegitimizing my relationships, telling me they aren't real or that I can't love the person I am dating.

That is awful! Don't listen to people who say those things, they're not you, don't have your feelings and they don't know what it is like to be ace but not aromantic. Many of them probably don't get 'how someone can be ace' in the first place. You don't need lust to love (romantically). You're the only one who can truly judge what you feel, and no one has the right to stomp on that.

*friendly shoulder pat*

[Anarion]

See, I study neuroscience and for me it is a big deal. I have to deal with people wondering if I am working to "unlock the secrets of the mind". No, no. We are just trying to figure the bloody thing out since the instruction manual got tossed with the packaging. So it adds to the many misconceptions about my chosen area of study. It was never a science meme either. It was a layperson no fumdamentally misunderstands science interpretation of how brain activity works.

This is definitely what someone would say if they wanted to keep telekinesis a secret from the public.

Aren't machines supposed to be efficient and logical?

Spoiler: Complete Tangent on the Matrix

Show

They DON'T need people batteries. The people batteries are wasting power that could keep Machines alive, in order to keep humans alive, because the machines are the good guys and are magnanimous in victory, having gone to the trouble of creating a whole artificial playground to keep humans maximally happy but say "no, you're not allowed to genocide us like you tried to." They even tried to make it basically heaven with everything perfect first, and then had to tone down the happy for later iterations of the matrix because humans refuse to accept that much happy. The fusion provides the power, and the only thing that the pods built up around the humans do is limit some of the wasteage, and there's always wasteage because humans are energy negative. The people batteries capture (say 20% of) the power lost by keeping the humans alive and channel it back in the system for reuse because at the scale of hanging onto a people reserve of this nature that's a huge amount of power, they don't provide power in the first place.

That was my point. Let go of the propaganda that Morpheus feeds you, he was indoctrinated as and indoctrinates child soldiers, he is not a reliable source. The agents may be jerks, but they are working to stop a terrorist faction (those article clippings we see indicate morpheus is not above blowing up an airport to get attention, as do the instructions on dealing with humans before the Lobby Scene) using child soldiers from attempting genocide on their species (again) AND from dumping however many million/billion souls from the lives they've built up with friends and loved ones into a blasted wasteland where many of them will starve to death or will have their heart give out because their ancestors decided to literally go scorched earth (and good luck finding your spouse, or your child in a crowd of millions of refugees without any contact information).

Plus the agents are willing to negotiate with humans who play nice with them, I have no reason to believe that Smith was planning to backstab Cipher, and indeed if Smith had played fair he had a better chance of helping clear out the resistance entirely and get his wish of not having to be in the Matrix anymore, go back to the real world and download into a squiddie or something. I don't know.

And as for fusion vs. geothermal... Well, there are oceans FULL of hydrogen, and it's not like they need to worry about the long term impact on the biosphere, and someday they can probably just load up all their citizens onto a single storage mechanism and commute themselves to Jupiter or something.

On the Matrix tangent, Golly hit what I wanted to say. It's logical from the perspective of "we have lots of ways to generate energy and there are other things that we care about more than being the most efficient possible at energy generation."

EDIT: Actually a little bummed now. I watched the John Oliver piece and while it was very good something he said really hurt. When he is talking about gender identity vs orientation, he says sexual attraction is who you love. As a biromantic asexual that hurt a lot since I have experienced a lot of people delegitimizing my relationships, telling me they aren't real or that I can't love the person I am dating.

Don't let that get you down. Your love is as real as anyone else's, it's just easy for people to make slips of language without even realizing it, and even when they're trying to help. I definitely know how you feel though: my romantic orientation, my desire for emotional companionship, and my sex drive don't exactly line up on the exact same thing either. It makes life a little harder, but maybe makes you a little stronger for it.

[Athedia]

That's great! :D It really feels nice when people around you acknowledge who you are and that your orientation is really 'a thing'. I used to have no one who knew or especially understood what demi was, but now my dad, aunt, cousin (who is bi/pan herself) and some friends do, or at least try. It feels surprisingly nice.

She is still confused, especially about the me wanting kids part (when she asked how I planned to have kids, I may have diagrammed sex with hand gestures). But she is trying.

That is awful! Don't listen to people who say those things, they're not you, don't have your feelings and they don't know what it is like to be ace but not aromantic. Many of them probably don't get 'how someone can be ace' in the first place. You don't need lust to love (romantically). You're the only one who can truly judge what you feel, and no one has the right to stomp on that.

*friendly shoulder pat*

What hurt the most was that it was John Oliver, someone I really respect. I don't listen to most people, but from him it hurt, same thing when my professors say similar things. In both those cases (John Oliver and professors) they often don't realize that what they said is problematic and hurtful.

[noparlpf]

Just found out that my mom didn't know the ace colors til yesterday. She also asked to learn what demi-sexuality is. She is a lot more comfortable than she was two years ago and that makes me so happy :D

EDIT: Actually a little bummed now. I watched the John Oliver piece and while it was very good something he said really hurt. When he is talking about gender identity vs orientation, he says sexual attraction is who you love. As a biromantic asexual that hurt a lot since I have experienced a lot of people delegitimizing my relationships, telling me they aren't real or that I can't love the person I am dating.

That's good. My mum is kind of a pain about it. I need to remember to ask my brother to avoid mentioning it (even not in relation to me) around her because she's firmly in the "you never know until you meet the right person" camp and has some kind of weird, convoluted line of reasoning for why it's reasonable to assume that an asexual might not be ace but that a monosexual person isn't bi. It gives me a headache every time.

This happened yesterday in the car. Very bothersome.

She also has some weird ideas about how a romantic relationship has to have proximity ("it shouldn't be called online dating because it's not actually dating if they don't meet") and "intimacy" which is very annoying.

What hurt the most was that it was John Oliver, someone I really respect. I don't listen to most people, but from him it hurt, same thing when my professors say similar things. In both those cases (John Oliver and professors) they often don't realize that what they said is problematic and hurtful.

Pretty much what Anarion said. It's not necessarily intentional, and society is so coded to believe that sex and love are the same thing. At least this guy is clearly making an effort to learn about GSRMs. Maybe you could send in a message or whatever format fan mail comes in these days pointing out the slip and explaining why it bothered you?

[Athedia]

That's good. My mum is kind of a pain about it. I need to remember to ask my brother to avoid mentioning it (even not in relation to me) around her because she's firmly in the "you never know until you meet the right person" camp and has some kind of weird, convoluted line of reasoning for why it's reasonable to assume that an asexual might not be ace but that a monosexual person isn't bi. It gives me a headache every time.

This happened yesterday in the car. Very bothersome.

She also has some weird ideas about how a romantic relationship has to have proximity ("it shouldn't be called online dating because it's not actually dating if they don't meet") and "intimacy" which is very annoying.



Pretty much what Anarion said. It's not necessarily intentional, and society is so coded to believe that sex and love are the same thing. At least this guy is clearly making an effort to learn about GSRMs. Maybe you could send in a message or whatever format fan mail comes in these days pointing out the slip and explaining why it bothered you?

I sent a short facebook message to the show saying that I know it wasn't intentional, but why it hurt to hear him say that. I will probably send something else tomorrow if I don't get a response.

[Anarion]

I sent a short facebook message to the show saying that I know it wasn't intentional, but why it hurt to hear him say that. I will probably send something else tomorrow if I don't get a response.

If you do a second, consider an old-fashioned letter with a stamp and make sure the grammar is perfect. As silly as it is, those still get notice in a way that nothing else does when it comes to a big organization. And if you make it rational and linguistically beautiful (so that nobody has an excuse to dismiss you as a crazy person), it might even get into Oliver's hands. No guarantees of course, but that is still the best way to actually reach people.

[Athedia]

If you do a second, consider an old-fashioned letter with a stamp and make sure the grammar is perfect. As silly as it is, those still get notice in a way that nothing else does when it comes to a big organization. And if you make it rational and linguistically beautiful (so that nobody has an excuse to dismiss you as a crazy person), it might even get into Oliver's hands. No guarantees of course, but that is still the best way to actually reach people.

I probably will do that. I just have to find where the envelopes are these days.

EDIT: Oh, and find the address.

[noparlpf]

Oh, just saw a photoset of that piece again. I notice these things better reading subtitles than when I'm half-listening, half-playing a game on the other monitor. Hmm, so the specific line is, "Sexual orientation is who [sic] you love." Hmm. I mean, as a dumbed-down definition that doesn't account for disparate sexual and romantic orientations it's not exactly wrong. Most people don't know about asexuality, and most people who know about asexuality don't know about alloromantic asexuals or romantic orientation. I wouldn't necessarily be offended, just disappointed that we still don't have any visibility. So the way to go is to send a polite, well-written letter. Spread awareness and stuff.

[Athedia]

Oh, just saw a photoset of that piece again. I notice these things better reading subtitles than when I'm half-listening, half-playing a game on the other monitor. Hmm, so the specific line is, "Sexual orientation is who [sic] you love." Hmm. I mean, as a dumbed-down definition that doesn't account for disparate sexual and romantic orientations it's not exactly wrong. Most people don't know about asexuality, and most people who know about asexuality don't know about alloromantic asexuals or romantic orientation. I wouldn't necessarily be offended, just disappointed that we still don't have any visibility. So the way to go is to send a polite, well-written letter. Spread awareness and stuff.

I wasn't offended persay, more bummed that there wasn't visibility.

[noparlpf]

I wasn't offended persay, more bummed that there wasn't visibility.

Yeah, that's basically every day.

[Athedia]

Yeah, that's basically every day.

It's easy to forget when your friends are good with it. But then I have to interact with other people *shudders*

[Silhitii]

Oh, just saw a photoset of that piece again. I notice these things better reading subtitles than when I'm half-listening, half-playing a game on the other monitor. Hmm, so the specific line is, "Sexual orientation is who [sic] you love." Hmm. I mean, as a dumbed-down definition that doesn't account for disparate sexual and romantic orientations it's not exactly wrong. Most people don't know about asexuality, and most people who know about asexuality don't know about alloromantic asexuals or romantic orientation. I wouldn't necessarily be offended, just disappointed that we still don't have any visibility. So the way to go is to send a polite, well-written letter. Spread awareness and stuff.

I would disagree that this definition isn't wrong, because not only does it ignore the differences between sexual and romantic orientation but it also implies that love=sexual desire. The suggestion that the only type of love worth acknowledging is sexual is quite frustrating. And yeah, the lack of awareness for asexuality can be very disappointing.

[Anarion]

I would disagree that this definition isn't wrong, because not only does it ignore the differences between sexual and romantic orientation but it also implies that love=sexual desire. The suggestion that the only type of love worth acknowledging is sexual is quite frustrating. And yeah, the lack of awareness for asexuality can be very disappointing.

Oh, no, it's definitely wrong. It's just that for a very significant, possibly overwhelming majority of the population, including most people who are L, B, G, and T, the two perfectly line up. Those of us that have the sexual and emotional/romantic components of love delinked are simply quite rare, so it's understandable and perhaps even forgivable that he would get it wrong. We just need to make people aware of it when it comes up.

[Fay Graydon]

Hello everyone! wow haven't been here in a while ^w^