Relationship Woes and Advice

[Glaivemaster]

How does one casually date without the casual sex?

I've been 4 years since I've dated anyone besides my ex, and I've never quite gotten the hang of 'casual dating'. Most of my dates had a tendency to escalate into actual relationships, whether I wanted it to or not (I fall in love easy and fast and deep).

Right now I just want to meet people and hang out, but from previous experience, I'm afraid of it escalating and not being able to hold myself back. :-/

So, you just want friends then? Sorry if I misunderstand you, but you want to 'date casually', without sex, which is just like hanging out with somebody really, isn't it? You don't need to date somebody to hang out with them

I probably am not getting what you mean though...

[Arlanthe]

How does one casually date without the casual sex?

I've been 4 years since I've dated anyone besides my ex, and I've never quite gotten the hang of 'casual dating'. Most of my dates had a tendency to escalate into actual relationships, whether I wanted it to or not (I fall in love easy and fast and deep).

Right now I just want to meet people and hang out, but from previous experience, I'm afraid of it escalating and not being able to hold myself back. :-/

I disagree with the below, though there is a valid camp there and a lot of people agree. You can have any of the above:

a) a friendship- no romance, no sex
b) a relationship "X"- moderated romance (many boundaries), no sex
c) a relationship "Y"- moderated romance (many boundaries), sex included
d) a relationship "Z"- unmoderated romance (fewer boundaries), sex included

I think the key is being very up front and vocal about expectations and boundaries, and your casual person can choose to accept it, or move on. I feel that if you state clearly what boundaries and expectations are, and that person can mirror them back (I understand that you want, A, B, and C and not D, E, and F), then it could work.

Boundaries and expectations might include:

1) How much time you expect to be given, and how much to give (could limit the amount of time spent with that person). One date per week? Are Sundays through Thursdays off limits you-time?
2) Exclusivity- can either person "date" (hang out with, go to movies, etc.) others, and to what extent? Kissing exclusivity? Sex with others ok? Etc.
3) Physical contact- hugging allowed? Kissing? Etc.
4) Re-evaluation times- when will the relationship status be re-evlauated? Is it open ended (a legitimate request), re-evaluate in six months? Slowly begin reducing boundaries at so many months? Etc.
5) Will the possibility of a more serious long-term relationship exist in the future, or is it more or less permanently undecided until otherwise noted?

Once again, I think in the end it is talking to your "person" and clearly communicating your ... boundaries and expectations :) Then they have the option of continuing a relationship with you, or choosing to move on. You might find some people are more than happy to respect your wishes and continue to casually date you, and others might not share your expectations and move on, which is also fair enough for them. Sometimes people are just "at different points" in their lives.

An unfortunate third category is the kind of person who will cross those boundaries and try and pressure you into "giving in", which hopeully you will resist. People should respect your wishes, and you should respect yourself enough to keep them.

A semi-romantic relationship need not be sexual, and a sexual relationship need not be super serious. It's up to you to think about where you are in your life, and where your preferences and comfort zone lies. If someone really cares about you and respects you, they will also respect your wishes.

[Driderman]

Why would you not want the casual sex???

Seriously though, it doesn't sound hard. Can't you just say: 'I'm not interested in casual sex' when you've gotten to know each other a bit?

[Dib]

I do classics at A-level... We're doing greek theatre and Thucidies and stuff.

I gave that girl a letter, now I just have to wait for her to turn me down.

Just out of interest... how do you give someone a letter without having to confront the subject there and then and without it seeming supiscious?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Just out of interest... how do you give someone a letter without having to confront the subject there and then and without it seeming supiscious?

I got lucky enough to find a moment when she was alone. Sat down near her.
Asked her to read it for me, handed her the letter and discreetly left.

You know what. On second thoughts I don't think you should pay too much attention to my advice.

[Ranis]

Since when is love or romance compared to on the same level with sex? Since when is sex needed for love? I think that it needs to be established before sex, definitely-because sex is supposed to be something emotional-it's supposed to express love, not define it.

[Syka]

WingedCheetah, for the casual relationship deal, just tell them you don't want to have sex if the subject ever comes up. In my current relationship (which is non-exclusive as far as I am aware), we've gone exactly as far as I've been willing to go, and no further. He has respected me when I've said I wasn't ready for something, and he didn't try to persuade me otherwise. Granted, it's gotten a bit more serious than I'd like (emotionally), but that is normal I'd think.

With us, we mainly just hung out (I still had trouble claiming the friend card with people because we did go on dates, and hung out a lot). We didn't kiss until 2 months in and there was nothing close to 'making out' for about 5 months. We've been taking it slow, and it was a mostly unspoken thing. If the person tries pushing it, just tell them you don't want to go too fast. If they keep pushing it, you don't need that kind of person in your life.

Glaivemaster, I was in a relationship for 3.5 years with no sex (I want to wait). There are other things that seperate it. I don't cuddle with "just friends", I don't kiss "just friends, and I generally don't do one-on-one things with my male "just friends". There is an emotional variant with someone you date versus someone you are friends with. The little touches, looks and the like. The difference may be small, but it's there.

[Bayushi Koji]

Wingedcheetah... I think I get were your coming from. I've had two female freinds (one I went out with first, and this only kicked in when we were ex's) who I would always end up in bed with.
I've no idea how any of the times ever happend. It was just a case of we would be chilling out alone some where and an hour latter, we'd be lying naked in each others arms...
The only advice I can offer from my experince is try to avoid situations were you are alone with the people your dating (as in generically, not trying to imply that your seeing more than one person at a time nesacrily).

Skyla... I know you don't see yourself as owning this thread.... but I certainly thing of you as its honoured elder. So... would you (or any one else posting here) mind me putting up a page and a half of script A) because I want to see peoples perspective of the female charecter and if she 'works'. B) The scene is processing a lot of issues/thoughts I've had about my confusion and I'd like to see wether people think I should tell her this?

Sorry for the rambeling nature of the post, but I annoyed a couple of customers more than I should with bad phrasing at work today.

[Syka]

Go for it. I'm honored to be an 'elder', even though as my birthday approaches it doesn't make me feel any younger. ;) Heck, I'm technically not even in my third decade yet (I'll be 20).

Eh, I figure it this way- more customers have annoyed me than me annoying them, so it all evens out. ;)

[Bayushi Koji]

Hehehehe, I would agree with you Syka, but I deal with the prestige clients and their end users.... so I have to have duels of wits with people who are unarmed and I can only use a little finger. Fun! And don't worry about feeling old... I'm constantly reminded that of all the people of my grade... I'm atleast 3 years older than the lot, and I'm only 26!

Re: the script, the guy is called Ee (short for monkey, long story), who's meant to be a warrior-philospher-poet in the modern day (how I'd love to belive I could be seen). Sara is his girl freind, a marine biologist with a love of Dolphins and is working on her PHD in conservation.

The camera comes up on the inside of Ee’s room. The room should have a slightly geo-logical feel to it. Piles of books that seem to be slowly marching across his floor like Mesa. Posters of violent action films should be contrasted by posters of classic works of art, philosophers and nature scenes. The furniture should be functional, none of it from a matched style, but all of it seeming well used and practical in the space. There should be a double bed near the window, a desk, groaning under the weight of a solid, old sound system, huge numbers of CD’s and a slick looking PC, close to the bed, but not in the way. Near this is a waist height bookshelf, filled with the work of Nietzsche, Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and other great works. On top of the book case and any where else there is space we find the clutter of an organised but busy mind. There are several ash trays, circus toys live neatly near the door, strange plush toys jostle with statues of alien gods and the relics of long forgotten fancy dress costumes on top of chests of draws and cupboards.
Stretched out on the bed is a young lady, tapping away at her laptop’s key board, the screen showing some text and images of marine life. The sun is playing over her back. She should be dressed in a way that is practical but looks stylish on her. Sitting in an office chair, beard firmly planted in a book missing from his book case is Ee. He has his typically ‘clean but scr/fluffy look’. There should be more than a passing resemblance between him and a bear.
Playing in the back ground is some Cypress Hill. The girl on the bed takes a sly look over her shoulder, see’s Ee engrossed in his book and pokes his knee with her foot so he slips and almost drops the book. He looks up at her slowly and glowers. She sticks her tongue out and he growls and bears teeth. She pulls back in mock fright and they both laugh, then return to what they were doing. A few moments latter, her foot snakes onto his knee and starts gently caressing him. There is a slight dip of the book and a curious twitch of an eye brow from Ee, this is answered with an ‘innocent’ glance over her shoulder.
The foots caressing moves up Ee’s thigh and he finally reaches an easy place to leave off, puts his book mark in, while putting the text down.
Stealthily he leans down, grabbing the foot at the last moment, brining it up to his lips to kiss. She gasps and rolls over breaking her foot free.

Ee: You wanted my attention?

Sara: Would you do something for me?

Ee: As much of what you ask me as I can do.

She bites her the corner of her lip and smiles. Cut to her again laid on her front, in just her vest top, the shoulder straps dropped low on her arm. She is smoking the last half of a joint. The gentle tones of Portishead drift through the scene. Ee is sat next to her on the bed massaging her back very thoroughly but tenderly. She pats one of his hand’s with the one holding the Jay. He takes it off of her and sits back a little as she rolls over.

Sara: Why are you so good to me?

Ee(smiling broadly) Because you are radiant with the will to power and I like to revel in that light.

Sara gives him a quizzical look then smiles.

Sara: Did you mean it when you said you’d do anything I asked of you?

Ee becomes comically serious and server.

Ee: My lady, if you wished it, I would bring you the still warm harts of your enemies.

Sara looks truly shocked at this, then says.

Sara: Only warm? I’d expect nothing less than still beating.

Ee drops all masks, game and pretence. He is, essentially, emotionally naked.

Ee: I would only offer that I thought I could bring you.

Sara looks a little coy as she slowly sits up and give’s him a peck on the cheek.

Sara: Do I ever tell you, you say some sweet things. Really, really odd, but sweet.

Ee almost blushes and looks away for a moment, before he leans into kiss her.

Ee: I’m glad you like them. I try to make sure each one will be especially pleasing to you.

Sara gives him a funny look and draws back a little.

Sara: Are you saying you don’t mean what you say to me?

Ee: What I’m saying is, I look for the most pleasing way to tell you how I feel, because I hope it will make you happy here. I do this because the joy you fill me with makes me want to keep you as near as I can.

Sara giggles a little like a school girl. Leaning in she says:

Sara: You like me.

As she finishes saying that, their lips brush for what starts out as a gentle kiss and turns into something tender yet fierce. They break apart and just sit quietly for a moment or two in each others company. Ee half caresses Sara’s shoulder while pulling one of her shoulder straps up. Ee brings the Jay up to his lips, pulls it away slightly and says.

Ee: I do, I really do.

He takes a deep draw, giving Sara a chance to look up at him slyly.

Sara: Good, ‘cause I like you to. I love you when you make me Thai food and cuddle up with blue planet.

Sara Gives Ee a cheeky wide grin. He takes another heavy drag, passes the jay to her, kisses her for head as he gets up.

Ee: Now that is easy to do.

End scene.

Thoughts people?

[Driderman]

You could probably make money writing romance novels for geeks and freaks

[Syka]

First, I think she is believable and "works". I know I do that with the guys I'm dating, just randomly poke them or something else that will cause brief physical contact. Also, banter similar to that has happened with me.

As for what to tell the real girl...I'm not exactly sure. What parts of the scene, etc?

Well, I'm off to dinner. Unfortunately, I won't be on much for about the next three days due to company. I'm trusting you guys to not go completely offtopic. ;)

[Bayushi Koji]

I preffer to write them for a hareem of inteligent, articulate, gracefull, healthy Nietzsch reading women. But thats just one of my dark little thoughts from the day poping out. Ladies... I know my writing of female charecters is largely poor... but what do you reckon?

[Bayushi Koji]

Thank you very much Syka, Sara was a lot easier to write than some female charecters I've tried.
With regards to what relates to her? All of that scene and more. The series idea is centred around four or five guys. To try and avoid making it a 'man thing' I want to have strong relationships for most if not all the guys, so its more like a show about 6-8 people.
I will confess to a bit of an Ego trip here... I'm going to use it to work out some relationship issues in my head. Ee and Sara is meant to be about the emotional state this young lady causes me... puts me into...... makes me feel... blah.... how ever you wanna put it.

[tis_tom]

Yeah see my problems with relationships are kind of the opposite to a lot of stuff I'm reading, but I dunno, I guess I'd like advice or even just re-assurance.

I'm gay, but apart from the fact I like other men I'm as 'straight acting' as they come. I'm not effeminate, I play football/enjoy sports, I drink beer, hang out with the lads, all my friends are a mixed, straight group, I go to regular pubs and clubs, I'm not a big fan of fashion, shopping, or Sarah Jessica Parker, but I'm completely comfortable and confident with my sexuality and my friends/family are also totally great with it. However I have one problem.

I've never met another gay man like me.

Every single guy I meet are effeminate or exclusively only in gay social circles or just sleep around with everyone, and while that's fine for them to be like that, that's not how I am. I'm only 18, so admittedly I've only been in the dating arena for about 3-4 years, but I've never met a gay man who I like enough to be in a relationship with simply because they're too gay for me! Or more, gay acting :-S

So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

[Pyrian]

Sorry if I misunderstand you, but you want to 'date casually', without sex, which is just like hanging out with somebody really, isn't it?

No, not so much. Well, that or you do some very interesting "hanging out".

I've had two female freinds (one I went out with first, and this only kicked in when we were ex's) who I would always end up in bed with.
I've no idea how any of the times ever happend. It was just a case of we would be chilling out alone some where and an hour latter, we'd be lying naked in each others arms...

I wish you could tell me how that happens. It sure as heck never happens that easily to me.

[Tsunomaru]

There's just something I find infuriating about people who accidentally "get lucky". Maybe my AT field is just too strong, but that's a phenomenon I simply do not understand.

Rawr.

[Gnome Barbarian]

So I have never asked advice on the forum before but Im kinda stuck at the moment about what to do. My girlfriend is going to be graduating at the end of the summer with her masters. Thats the good news. She however wants to move to another part of the country and get a job. I'm not stopping her but I also will not move out of the New England area. I have tons of family and friends in the area and do not wish to have to start all over.

The question is what do you all think of long distance relationships? I personally don't think I would like it all that much. However, I won't get complaints about me spending a whole day playing D&D or playing magic for the night. I am an uberdork and as important as she is to me, my friends, my family and my 17th beguiler/mindbender that I started at level one 2 years ago are also very important to me as well. Actually just joking about the last part but you all get the picture.

I could not see myself in the type of life that I couldn't call my sister up and tell her I'm picking up my 4 year old nephew to hang out for the day. As well as not getting a call from my good friends to game. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Edit: He started off as a wizard but with the PHB2 I got to retool him.

[Khantalas]

So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

Nope. You're not alone. I couldn't tell a friend was gay till he decided to found a College LGBT society. Of course, he could have been just bisexual, common courtesy ordered me not to ask.

Though he probably is gay - why else would his avatar say "I'm gay, that's why"?

[Driderman]

So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

I suppose you're just unlucky. Of course, I've only met 4, 5, maybe 6 admittedly gay men but most of those were pretty 'straight acting' so to speak, except maybe for a few tells with some of them. I guess you just have to look the right places, I think perhaps that gay men who have 'straight' hobbies and social circles might not be as open with their sexuality due to prejudice and whatnot

[The Prince of Cats]

I could not see myself in the type of life that I couldn't call my sister up and tell her I'm picking up my 4 year old nephew to hang out for the day. As well as not getting a call from my good friends to game. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

I think you both need to get your priorities straight. I do not mean this in a bad way, just that your relationship cannot survive if you don't both know precisely what you want from the other.

You have stated that your family and friends, those things that will not move with you, are more important than your current relationship. How does she feel about this? Does she feel that moving is more important than having you near her?

If neither of you wants a long-distance relationship but she wants to move and you do not, then somebody will have to compromise. I cannot imagine that it is an easy choice but it is one that must be addressed. My personal take on this is that you may not be compatible; she wants opportunities, while you seek stability and familiarity.
Entering into a long-distance relationship is not really an answer so much as a postponement. If you are ever to be together, you need to agree on where you want to be.

To be blunt, you need to either leave your family and familiarity behind, ask her to sacrifice her job-prospects or you must agree to part company. In your place, I would have to think long and hard and, if I found I truly loved her, I would sacrifice it all to be with her.

I think perhaps that gay men who have 'straight' hobbies and social circles might not be as open with their sexuality due to prejudice and whatnot

I would have to second that. I have known quite a few gay men who came across as straight and even I couldn't have told you they were gay until they 'came on' to me. There is this belief that there is a 'gay-day', even among the gay community, but it is not always easy to tell. I speak as a man who was semi-openly bisexual (I consider 'married' to be my current sexuality) and still missed a few...

[Gnome Barbarian]

I think you both need to get your priorities straight. I do not mean this in a bad way, just that your relationship cannot survive if you don't both know precisely what you want from the other.

You have stated that your family and friends, those things that will not move with you, are more important than your current relationship. How does she feel about this? Does she feel that moving is more important than having you near her?

If neither of you wants a long-distance relationship but she wants to move and you do not, then somebody will have to compromise. I cannot imagine that it is an easy choice but it is one that must be addressed. My personal take on this is that you may not be compatible; she wants opportunities, while you seek stability and familiarity.
Entering into a long-distance relationship is not really an answer so much as a postponement. If you are ever to be together, you need to agree on where you want to be.

To be blunt, you need to either leave your family and familiarity behind, ask her to sacrifice her job-prospects or you must agree to part company. In your place, I would have to think long and hard and, if I found I truly loved her, I would sacrifice it all to be with her.

I do love her. And like I said Im willing to move within driving distance from eastern ct/ri. There are two big cities that are encompassed by this Boston and New York. She however does plan to move back to the area eventually just not sure when. She is talking about florida because it sunny and nice..with lots of beachs. I'm very much into the not sunny beachless area.

[averagejoe]

So my question is, -are- all gay men this stupid stereotype? Am I -actually- alone in being a straight guy who happens to go out with men?! To be honest I'm beginning to lose hope. :-S Guess I just need that off my chest more than anything else, as all my friends say is "someday!" when they don't know of any other guy like that.

Definitely not. Of course, they are pretty hard to find, what with there being no social/visible signs of their gayness, unless asked directly. Of course, I've never gone very far into figuring out who's gay or what, so I wouldn't be much help in that respect.

Another piece of advice I can give is one I myself have been following since high school; don't worry about it overmuch. There will be time, and a lot of men in your life. You're still young, and you needn't be so worried about it at this point. There's no hurry.

[Amotis]

Another piece of advice I can give is one I myself have been following since high school; don't worry about it overmuch. There will be time, and a lot of men in your life. You're still young, and you needn't be so worried about it at this point. There's no hurry.

'Tis good advice for any sexuality. You'll find a partner sooner or later. If you wanna rush it, sure, but it comes naturally anyway so why stress about it?

[Ranis]

Some good news with my world:

I talked to her tonight, and she said she'd be happy to hang out, but we're going to have to wait a week or so because she's busy. This looks very good for me, and the best part was that she didn't seem at all shocked or embarrassed toward hanging out; quite the opposite, in fact.

Thought I'd share the good news, carry on n_n

[Arlanthe]

Gnome Barbarian: I think most long distance relationships fall apart, unfortunately. It’s just that it is easier to grow apart when you live apart, especially if one person is in the same environment they were born and raised in, and the other moves about more. The bright side is that pre-established relationships tend to last longer long distance. However in the overwhelming majority of cases they can’t last forever unless one person joins the other.

I’m 26 years old, and I moved to Belgium last September with my wife. I was born, raised, and lived in the same place in the U.S. my entire life until then, so the change was pretty radical. But it was also worth it, and I think I am gaining a lot of perspective in my life. I’m learning new things, seeing new places, and it was more worth it than I thought possible.

This may be kind of weird, but I think getting away from ones family can be a very good thing. I’m not talking about alienation- just differentiation. Your feelings of reservation are very valid, but in the end it will come down to a choice- your choice. You are free to choose.

Tis_tom: “Acting gay” is culture. It isn’t genes or hormones or anything like that- it’s a mixture of mirroring, signalling, and identifying as I’m sure you know. In much the same way people learn to speak Ebonics not because they are stupid or black, but because people around them speak that way.

You aren’t alone- there are many gay people who don’t follow the molds of that subculture. The problem is, and the point has already been made, sometimes it’s easier to “signal” since being gay it is often hard to meet people. You’re only 18, so you have a good long time to meet some nice even natured guys! I can understand why it would feel frustrating though.


Ranis: Congrats! Keep us posted.

Did I miss anyone?

[Dib]

Cheers for all the help on this guys n gals... I'm gonna be asking her out within the next hour... so you know... wish me luck... I think I need more than I have for this...

[Logic]

Cheers for all the help on this guys n gals... I'm gonna be asking her out within the next hour... so you know... wish me luck... I think I need more than I have for this...

Good luck. And if you are of the legal age, try imbibing small amounts of liquid courage to ensure that you do not back out.

[Dib]

hmm... didn't really help me last time I had some... I decided not to drink (at least a lot less) after the incident I mentioned earlier... and besides, I'm in school and have no access to any... any good substitutes?

[Logic]

Something that helps you relax. Asking someone out can be stressful, so, you need to be as calm and relaxed as possible, or else you will suffer one of the things I nearly said once:

"Mmm, boobies, date me!"

More in line with your question, chocolate can raise endorphens that can help you relax.