Better humans and priests of a specific mythos

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm designing a world for an AD&D 2e campaign, and due to the low-power nature of the world humans aren't an attractive race for PCs. With the world effectively having a 'soft' level cap of about level 10 (the highest level NPC) the ability of humans to advance to any level isn't really an advantage, especially I'm allowing every race to pick every class. I was wondering what I could give humans in order to make them more viable, and am currently thinking an ability that grants them greater endurance than the other races, plus a free NWP or two.

Also, is there any advice for creating priests of a specific mythos beyond those in the Player's Handbook, because one of my deities (the Lawful Neutral goddess of death) only allows access to about 4 spheres plus the general priest spells, and I'm not sure what powers to give their followers beyond a touch of death at 7th level and breath of life at 9th level. I can work out most of the other deities, with the justice and war gods giving higher THAC0 and the scholarly gods giving a larger number of known spheres, but I'd like a rough guide to balancing them with the vanilla ceric.

[dream]

So you've broken AD&D 2nd by removing racial restrictions and now you want help to fix it?

Easy: put the restrictions back in place and remove the level cap. Next question?

[Anonymouswizard]

So you've broken AD&D 2nd by removing racial restrictions and now you want help to fix it?

Easy: put the restrictions back in place and remove the level cap. Next question?

Okay, I'm fine with using the restrictions, just worried it might confuse new players, but without the level cap non-humans are just a better choice, so what can I give humans to close the gap? Their only real bonus is 'can take paladin', almost every other class is better off with a different race. (I'm not certain yet how much of a bonus dual-classing will be)

I'm also considering adding half-orcs with +1 Strength, -1 Intelligence, a 1 in 6 chance to ignore a lethal blow, and 60ft infravision. Is this particularly under/overpowered?

[JBPuffin]

You're fine with sticking to your guns and letting all the races have access to all the classes. To let humans still have something (you can just let them be inferior - imbalance is part of how D&D works, tbh), an idea - give them a +1 to any two ability scores of the player's choice. That'll be enough for sure.

[LibraryOgre]

Lots of options. I really think a great system for designing new specialty priests is Spells and Magic's priest creation rules. Assuming you, as a DM, don't do anything stupidly overly powerful, it gives you a fair bit of structure to work with.

For what to give humans? I have long suggested +1 to Charisma and +1 to all Saves. It's mostly in line with what other races get (bonuses to a few saves, bonus to an attribute), and in line with some of the human-exclusive classes (Paladin, druid which is primarily human) needing more charisma. You might also throw in +1 to hit with a specific weapon (set by nationality) or a +1 to hit an opposing nationality (i.e. humans form tribes and can attack tribal enemies with a bonus).

[dream]

Anon, since you're working with 2E, have you seen the "Complete" series? The Complete Priest handbook can help you flesh-out your idea, using the language of AD&D 2nd edition. I'd check that out if you haven't.

[Anonymouswizard]

Lots of options. I really think a great system for designing new specialty priests is Spells and Magic's priest creation rules. Assuming you, as a DM, don't do anything stupidly overly powerful, it gives you a fair bit of structure to work with.

I'll have a look, I'll see if I can pick it up.

For what to give humans? I have long suggested +1 to Charisma and +1 to all Saves. It's mostly in line with what other races get (bonuses to a few saves, bonus to an attribute), and in line with some of the human-exclusive classes (Paladin, druid which is primarily human) needing more charisma. You might also throw in +1 to hit with a specific weapon (set by nationality) or a +1 to hit an opposing nationality (i.e. humans form tribes and can attack tribal enemies with a bonus).

I'll likely use the +1 to Charisma and saves, but I'm currently mapping out a bonus proficiency for each nationality/elven tribe (relatively small region).

Anon, since you're working with 2E, have you seen the "Complete" series? The Complete Priest handbook can help you flesh-out your idea, using the language of AD&D 2nd edition. I'd check that out if you haven't.

I've seen Complete Fighter and Complete Wizard, and will probably pick them up at some point because Fighter at least had rules I'll find useful. I'll see if I can pick up Priest along with Fighter and the Complete book of Humanoids.

EDIT: If I wanted a spell points system with mages more like 3.X's sorcerers, would changing the mage's spells/day into spells known be relatively balanced?

[LibraryOgre]

EDIT: If I wanted a spell points system with mages more like 3.X's sorcerers, would changing the mage's spells/day into spells known be relatively balanced?

Not too bad. They know a number of spells equal to X, and can cast a number of spells equal to X. It removes a lot of their flexibility. Again, you might also take a look at Spells and Magic, again; the "Channeller" spell point variant lets you freecast.

[Yuki Akuma]

Humans are still awesome because they can dual class.

[Anonymouswizard]

Not too bad. They know a number of spells equal to X, and can cast a number of spells equal to X. It removes a lot of their flexibility. Again, you might also take a look at Spells and Magic, again; the "Channeller" spell point variant lets you freecast.

Looked at it, I think I'll likely use a variant with slightly different casting costs and spell points/level, but have a difference between memorized spells (as a normal mage would be able to, but chosen at level up and permanent), and the other spells the mage has access to, which are in his spellbook and must be read each time before they can be used. The thing is, I don't get if they are supposed to memorize spells as a mage's slots or their spell point allowance in the system as presented.

[LibraryOgre]

Looked at it, I think I'll likely use a variant with slightly different casting costs and spell points/level, but have a difference between memorized spells (as a normal mage would be able to, but chosen at level up and permanent), and the other spells the mage has access to, which are in his spellbook and must be read each time before they can be used. The thing is, I don't get if they are supposed to memorize spells as a mage's slots or their spell point allowance in the system as presented.

I'd go with their spell point allowance.

OTOH, the Hackmaster Method is that you memorize one spell per spell level. Period. That one you cast at normal cost. Everything else is double.

[veti]

I'm with the let-'em-suck school of thought. So what if the party is entirely nonhuman?

If you want to compensate humans, had you considered good old-fashioned racism? Only humans get to join the best factions, access to the best temple services, cushiest jobs, etc.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm with the let-'em-suck school of thought. So what if the party is entirely nonhuman?

If you want to compensate humans, had you considered good old-fashioned racism? Only humans get to join the best factions, access to the best temple services, cushiest jobs, etc.

Except in dwarf cities, where only dwarves get that privilege, repeat for gnome cities, Halfling cities, orc cities, and the rare elf city. Everybody acts like that, it isn't really an 'advantage'.

[veti]

Except in dwarf cities, where only dwarves get that privilege, repeat for gnome cities, Halfling cities, orc cities, and the rare elf city. Everybody acts like that, it isn't really an 'advantage'.

Except that there are about 19 "human" cities for every non-human one. Humans can still be the dominant race, they're where all the action is - then it becomes a significant edge.

[Anonymouswizard]

Except that there are about 19 "human" cities for every non-human one. Humans can still be the dominant race, they're where all the action is - then it becomes a significant edge.

Stop telling me to redesign my setting so as to not make humans a bad choice. If there is a mechanical reason to play an elf, there should be a mechanical reason to play a human. In normal 2e this is the ability to play any class to any level, but my world is low power enough that level limits don't really matter, and 'can pick paladin if lucky' isn't a very good incentive.

Imagine if you sat down to play 3.5 and I said 'I've removed human's free feat and skills because I added class restrictions to the other races.' I've decided I want a world with orc mages and Halfling paladins, so I'm looking for a solution that doesn't require making my setting have 100 cities in as many square miles.

[Lurkmoar]

Humans are still awesome because they can dual class.

Only if they have some really killer attribute scores. And they take a warrior class first for the hp.

[MeeposFire]

Frankly I DMed games with no racial restrictions (or level limits) and humans were still the most single played race in the game. However over the years I do think that giving humans some small bonuses do not hurt and help make them unique. For instance I tooled around giving a bonus weapon and Non-weapon proficiency to humans. It does not sound like much but if you have a wide range of sources that could help you get some nice features or at the least allow you to add some more detail to your character. I have also seen people use bonus XP though I do not like that as much (I like something a little bit more active).

[Lord Torath]

Well, you could double the rate at which humans gain NWPs. Maybe even Weapon Proficiencies, although you'll probably want to limit the rate at which you can Master the weapons (Mastery at 5, High Mastery at 6, and Grand Mastery at 9 is pretty much the way it stands in PO: C&T. Might not be a bad idea to keep that in place so you don't have Grand Masters at level 6)

[LibraryOgre]

Only if they have some really killer attribute scores. And they take a warrior class first for the hp.

A thief/mage is a good combo, as well. Druid/Mage also rocks your socks.

[TristenC]

I've seen DM campaigns in 2e where the humans were allowed to add 3 points to their base ability score rolls, max of 1 point to any given stat and hard caps at 18 (roll for exceptional strength, no jumping to 18/00).

Additionally, the bonus NWP thing can be an incentive, since that's basically how 3e handled it anyway.

I have been DMing off-and-on for over 15 years. It has been my experience that a lot of players choose humans anyway, even without the extra incentives.

In the end, if you want them to be free to chose without making these adjustments, then just let them. But a party full of demihumans will have complications almost anywhere they go. In every city at least one of them will face persecution or rudeness.

For priests of specific mythoi I have seen/and used the following:
Bonus to saves vs the specific god's allowed spheres (usually just +2)
Special abilities tied to one aspect of the priest


Some thoughts for a Lawful Neutral priest of death: (obviously don't give them all of these)
Detect chaos (Law)/wk or day
Protection from Chaos (law)
Half-damage from cold-sources, save for no damage (death)
Resist cold 1/day on self or other (death)
'Silent as the grave'- Walk without sound 1/day for 1d10 rounds (death)
Chill Touch 1/day (death)

basically any spell affect you feel fits into that god's domain.
Check out the Complete Priest handbook if you can, there are some good law/chaos sphere stuff in there

In the end, it may not matter too much. Just do what seems fair :)