An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time! *golf clap*

[Douglas]

Nowadays, burying these kind of details is much harder for authors because the tools available for the eagle-eyed fans to suss them out are so numerous.

The kind of questions Brandon Sanderson gets from fans depends a very great deal on whether the fan in question frequents Sanderson's official forums and related sites. An "ordinary" fan will typically ask something fairly obvious. A forum fan will often ask something that has ordinary fans wondering either what the hell he's talking about or how the hell he figured out the foundation for the question. It's gotten so different that he sometimes asks the fan whether he's from the web site before answering, just because it makes such a huge difference in the amount of background information available to draw on for explanation.

All because that community has collectively unearthed so very many buried details.

[The New Bruceski]

Well, Sanderson's books include a meta-cosmology that we only know exists because of his comments about some books that weren't published. The Knights Radiant series (or whatever it's called) is the first time it's really becoming explicit and even then it's not something a casual reader would pick up on, they'd just think the meta-cosmology stuff was tied into that series' lower-level cosmology (and it is, in its own way). Even the most logic-twisting "Bela is really Shai'tan" argument only looks to sources from its own series, rather than taking transcribed languages from completely different books and noticing they sound similar.

[snowblizz]

Worse still, this thing started before crowdsourced minutiae-tracking (read: Wikis) were a thing. Hell, search engines were barely a thing. So even if I noticed {insert cool detail that explains/foreshadows longstanding fan conundrum} buried on a page, I'd have no way of sharing it with the wider fandom, and even if I posted it to my Geocities page, it was a crapshoot whether anyone would find it.

Nowadays, burying these kind of details is much harder for authors because the tools available for the eagle-eyed fans to suss them out are so numerous.

But red herrings (un)fortunately still work.

Oh, there were sites back then too. A couple of fansites were kinda big too. Dragonmount and a site something like WoT theories or something. Had a fan theory archive for all kinds of stuff. Be damned if I remember that one though even though it was the main one I visited. Late 90s though so the series had gotten some steam to it.

[WalkingTarget]

Oh, there were sites back then too. A couple of fansites were kinda big too. Dragonmount and a site something like WoT theories or something. Had a fan theory archive for all kinds of stuff. Be damned if I remember that one though even though it was the main one I visited. Late 90s though so the series had gotten some steam to it.

The Wheel of Time FAQ that's is now hosted on Dragonmount was hosted on at least two sites before that and was compiled from discussions happening on Usenet. Here's the FAQ from around the time when I discovered it in 2002.

[tonberrian]

As a complete aside, pay attention to the image at the beginning of the chapter. It ususally denotes who's the viewpoint character for it, or is somehow relevant to the material therein.

[mangosta71]

Also, a lot of them are cool.

[LokeyITP]

Oh, there were sites back then too. A couple of fansites were kinda big too. Dragonmount and a site something like WoT theories or something. Had a fan theory archive for all kinds of stuff. Be damned if I remember that one though even though it was the main one I visited. Late 90s though so the series had gotten some steam to it.

dragonmount.com is still around, and it was the best WoT forum by miles when it was active. The also host the FAQ like you mention and I think they have the wotmania archives. Very good discussions out of that clunky message board, but the real gems were the theories section. There was a lot of creativity there (I loved lightinthenight's stuff).

theoryland.com has always been cliquey. Too much drama, and since they let the old guard mod, has always been horrible to new posters. Always been miles ahead of others in ease of use, too bad the community is so toxic.

tarvalon.net is mostly articles written by a few people that can be worth checking out. Message board that never had much activity.

There's other resource sites and probably some that I'm forgetting, but think those were the major English-speaking communities after usenet or email groups.

[Psyren]

Oh, there were sites back then too. A couple of fansites were kinda big too. Dragonmount and a site something like WoT theories or something. Had a fan theory archive for all kinds of stuff. Be damned if I remember that one though even though it was the main one I visited. Late 90s though so the series had gotten some steam to it.

Right, I know - but none of those have the sheer crowdsource power of a wiki, and none had the bandwidth to support all the cool things we have today like fanart.

There's also the groupthink/cliquey nature of the older communities, since he who paid for the bandwidth was god. Now it's a lot easier to just start your own community/theories if the existing communities aren't to your liking, and the ones that want to stay on top have to be more welcoming as a result.

[snowblizz]

dragonmount.com [.... ]I think they have the wotmania archives. Very good discussions out of that clunky message board, but the real gems were the theories section. There was a lot of creativity there (I loved lightinthenight's stuff).

Wotmania! That was what it was. I would read the theories an stuff, never really got into message-boards back then.

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 26: Whitebridge
The Spray finally enters Whitebridge, and there hasn't been a mutiny, so that's some good news.

The bridge the city is named for is a massive stone bridge spanning over the water, all one unbroken span of stone with a walkway that looks like glass, though it isn't. It never gets slippery in the rain, and it can't be broken by any hammer or chisel. It's far more advanced than anything this society is capable of building, and nobody knows who built it, though Thom thinks it was the Aes Sedai back in the Age of Legends.

Y'know, why is it fantasy the story always seems to take place after these super advanced societies and time periods have passed? I would like to see a fantasy story where we are right in the middle of all this incredible stuff.

Theship pulls into the port and the merchants come in their fancy carriages to trade their wares. Captain Domon tells Floran Gelb to take a hike. Gelb tries to get sympathy from the rest of the crew, but they all hate him so no luck there. I forsee this guy causing trouble in the future. Domon says his goodbyes to Thom and tells him of a gleeman contest in Illian where the best teller of The Great Hunt of the Horn will win a hundred gold marks. More importantly, he gives them back the money they paid for passage, which means Rand and Mat will have their tracking coins again. I don't think this is the last we've seen of Domon. He seems to think that the trollocs were chasing him personally, so there's got be something going on with him we don't know about yet.

None of our other heroes are waiting on the dock for them of course, but Rand is hopeful that they can find them in the city. Gathering information is the Bard's job, so Thom leads them to a dive bar near the docks. This place is near the bridge, so anyone going to Caemlyn will have to pass by here, making it a good spot to find information on anybody as noticable as Moiraine and Lan. Thom questions the innkeep and learns a very tasty morsel of information. Logain has been captured. The Aes Sedai are parading him from town to town in a wagon on the way to Tar Valon, and their next stop will be Caemlyn, to show him to Queen Morgase.

This is the first mention of any queen. To be honest, I didn't even realize all the places in this book even belonged in one kingdom.

We also learn that in Illian, an actual Hunt for te Horn is being organized, probably the reason for the gleeman competition. The next book in the series is called The Great Hunt, so I'm sure this will never come up again. Rand asks if anyone's seen their friends. The innkeep gets all cryptic and says a crazy guy who was constantly moving and talking to himself came asking about them, and went off to Caemlyn. I'm guessing it was Padan Fain.

He's not the only one who's come through. A man in all black with a hood pulled tight that creeped everyone out has been coming around asking questions. It's a nazgul! Sorry, it's a Myrddraal, though at this point is there that much of a difference?

Thom wants to go back to Captain Domon and get out of Whitebridge, and Rand wants to stay and wait for Moiraine. Thom thinks they should go to Illian and put all this Aes Sedai business behind them. Mat tells him to get lost, but he's under the sway of his cursed dagger, so his opinion doesn't mean much.

Who should walk into the tavern now but Floran Gelb. He's whining about his totally justified firing and accusing our heroes of being Darkriends. If Rand Mat and Thom gets outed as Darkfriends, they'll really be in trouble, so they try to get out and make for the city gate. Mat asks why Thom is helping them, and he reveals that he had a nephew named Owyn who got in trouble wiuth the Aes Sedai and was killed, so he wants to keep the Musketeers away from Tar Valon.

They are right by the city gate weh the inevitable happens. The Myrddraal finds them. Thom attacks it with his knives and yells at Rand and Mat to escape. The last they hear of him is screaming. Is thom dead? Probably not. If someone seemingly dies offscreen, that's almost a guarantee that they'll come back at some point.

[Psyren]

Ah yes, Thom the badass.

Y'know, why is it fantasy the story always seems to take place after these super advanced societies and time periods have passed? I would like to see a fantasy story where we are right in the middle of all this incredible stuff.

I suspect it's because the lower-magic, more parochial societies are easier to relate to. In such a setting, magic is just as foreign to the protagonists as it is to the reader, and so we can both learn its rules and limitations simultaneously and organically. In addition, reintroducing some of that powerful magic (as well as new forms unknown even to the folks from the legendary age) is a great way to demonstrate the growth of the characters themselves. In a high-magic setting it's harder to justify the hero struggling for weeks if not months to learn how to light a candle, when he could just get a teacher or watch someone do it or find it in a library.

It also lets you raise the stakes over time. Take the chapter you just read - a Fade is a boss-level threat to these three characters at this point in the story. But to even a relatively weak Aes Sedai, a single Fade is a joke.

[WalkingTarget]

Y'know, why is it fantasy the story always seems to take place after these super advanced societies and time periods have passed? I would like to see a fantasy story where we are right in the middle of all this incredible stuff.

Clarke's Third Law - sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. You can work corollaries backwards from this. "Age of Legends" type settings are likely to be indistinguishable from science fiction settings.

This is the first mention of any queen. To be honest, I didn't even realize all the places in this book even belonged in one kingdom.

The Two Rivers is a provincial area on the western border of Andor (Caemlyn being nearer the eastern border). Most people in the Two Rivers probably aren't aware that they're in this kingdom either as they're so far out of the way and haven't seen a tax collector in some time (if I'm remembering right).

[lord_khaine]

It also lets you raise the stakes over time. Take the chapter you just read - a Fade is a boss-level threat to these three characters at this point in the story. But to even a relatively weak Aes Sedai, a single Fade is a joke.

Thats also touching on one of my main issues with the serie, just how overpowered a channeler is compared to just about everyone and anything else.

[mangosta71]

Aside from the Prologue, everything that we've seen in the story to this point happens inside Andor. Most editions of the books have maps of the world inside both covers, so you can flip to those and track our heroes' geographic progress through the setting as you read.

[tonberrian]

Y'know, why is it fantasy the story always seems to take place after these super advanced societies and time periods have passed? I would like to see a fantasy story where we are right in the middle of all this incredible stuff.

While this is somewhat true in WoT, it also contains more than a few fascinating subversions as well. Just to keep you reading.

[Douglas]

He's not the only one who's come through. A man in all black with a hood pulled tight that creeped everyone out has been coming around asking questions. It's a nazgul! Sorry, it's a Myrddraal, though at this point is there that much of a difference?

At this point, not really. Later on, the fact that Nazgul are Sauron's best while Myrddraal are merely elite mooks for the Dark One comes into play.

If someone seemingly dies offscreen, that's almost a guarantee that they'll come back at some point.

Heh, where would storytelling be without tropes?

Thats also touching on one of my main issues with the serie, just how overpowered a channeler is compared to just about everyone and anything else.

To me, that's just a perfectly sensible part of the setting. One person is telling physics to shut up and sit down, another is swinging a sword, which one sounds like it should be more powerful to you? Games try to force them into equality because equality of character power is in itself important in a game, but this isn't a game.

Aside from the Prologue, everything that we've seen in the story to this point happens inside Andor.

And in the prologue, Andor did not yet exist.

Most editions of the books have maps of the world inside both covers, so you can flip to those and track our heroes' geographic progress through the setting as you read.

My copy of The Eye of the World has it between the prologue and chapter 1. This is mildly annoying for being harder to flip to on a whim than either cover.

[mangosta71]

Thats also touching on one of my main issues with the serie, just how overpowered a channeler is compared to just about everyone and anything else.

To me, that's just a perfectly sensible part of the setting. One person is telling physics to shut up and sit down, another is swinging a sword, which one sounds like it should be more powerful to you? Games try to force them into equality because equality of character power is in itself important in a game, but this isn't a game.

Someone that can channel in this setting is like a D&D sorcerer with enough spells known to be a Batman wizard. They can learn every spell in the game (and make up new spells on the fly) while not having to bother with that whole pesky preparation thing. So, yes, channelers found a way to be even more broken than casters in 3.5.

Spoiler

Show

Of course, the climax of the series is a man facing off against a god. The mortal has to have something to keep from getting squished like a bug.

[Douglas]

Someone that can channel in this setting is like a D&D sorcerer with enough spells known to be a Batman wizard.

More like a psion than a sorcerer. The channeling per day limit works more like power points than spell slots. Of course, neither is really all that good a fit - fatigue matches the fluff much better, but D&D doesn't have mechanics for either getting fatigued through your own long term exertions (aside from a few special cases like a forced march) or for fatigue affecting your spellcasting ability.

[lord_khaine]

To me, that's just a perfectly sensible part of the setting. One person is telling physics to shut up and sit down, another is swinging a sword, which one sounds like it should be more powerful to you? Games try to force them into equality because equality of character power is in itself important in a game, but this isn't a game.

Actually when said sword is already in motion and heading towards someones skull, then i do think it should be the sword.
Why on earth should the actual changing of physics be something that can be done so fast it render every other form of skill obselete?

[Takver]

I think Rand's got a heroic role at this section of the first book, one that I really like. He has simple goals appropriate to someone of no special ability (run away from the Myrddraal, stick together with Mat, find the others). Because of the curse on Mat that makes him suspicious and constantly negative, Rand has to supply enough hope and strength of will for two. Without any guidance--and as someone who's used to being guided--he has to try to make the best decisions he can to keep both of them safe.

[Douglas]

Actually when said sword is already in motion and heading towards someones skull, then i do think it should be the sword.
Why on earth should the actual changing of physics be something that can be done so fast it render every other form of skill obselete?

If you actually get in melee range, I think a sword wielded with significant speed actually does win against a typical channeler. Channeling only trumps in combat if they see you coming before that point or have exceptional speed.

[Psyren]

If you actually get in melee range, I think a sword wielded with significant speed actually does win against a typical channeler. Channeling only trumps in combat if they see you coming before that point or have exceptional speed.

I don't know about all channelers, but Aes Sedai are in fact trained to be that fast. You see it in detail during their training in New Spring. And Wise Ones and damane are just as skilled.

[Ifni]

Arrows from surprise can take down Aes Sedai, though - there have been a couple of incidents where ta'veren saved the day. They're trained to be fast, but there are limits.

In the roleplaying game based on the Wheel of Time, I agree, channelers are ridiculously overpowered (especially as they made non-channeling characters weaker than in 3.5), and that is a problem of game balance. But in the context of a story, I don't really have a problem with channelers being more powerful than any non-channeling character - it drives the story, it doesn't ruin it. If a channeler was no more dangerous than a swordsman, the degree of fear toward men who can channel wouldn't really make sense - it'd be a matter for the local guard (like any serial killer with a sword), not for the dedicated attention of the largest subgroup of the Aes Sedai. And even setting aside men who can channel, the question of how to trust or control women who can channel has significantly shaped several of the book's societies (c.f. the Three Oaths, damane).

[The New Bruceski]

Out of curiosity, about 12 years ago my friend and her boyfriend got me into a WoT RP site. Not an RPG, just a group storytelling set in the White Tower. I never did much, made a couple of posts hanging out in the tavern before I decided it wasn't my cup of tea, but does anyone happen to know what it was called and whether it's still around?

[Tom Tearcamel]

The E-book for the entire Wheel of Time is on sale this weekend (5-6, maybe the 7th Sept) if anyone wants it on 1 file. 40some American dollars instead of the usual 110+.

[Psyren]

The E-book for the entire Wheel of Time is on sale this weekend (5-6, maybe the 7th Sept) if anyone wants it on 1 file. 40some American dollars instead of the usual 110+.

Fantastic! Just the special I was waiting for to get that. And e-books are searchable

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 27: Shelter From the Storm
The Tuatha'an(the real name of the Tinkers. Obviously they wouldn't call themselves that) travel at a slow pace. They have nowhere in particular to go, why hurry to get there? Perrin on the other hand does have somewhere to go, so he's getting abit restless. Perrin is a square peg in a round hole here. He doesn't dislike the Tinkers, but this way of life isn't for him. Egwene on the other hand, is following her pattern of just doing whatever the most influential female in the general vicinity is doing, and naturally is getting along quite nicely with Ila. Perrin can't help but notice the way Aram is all over her.

Elyas isn't too popular with the Tinkers. They don't trusty his wolves and they don't like his more violent lifestyle, but he seems to be familiar enough that they tolerate his presence. I think Raen is the only one who doesn't actually dislike him. Elyas sees no reason to leave the Tinkers for now, but Perrin is anxious to part ways with them for fear that his presence will bring the Myrddraal down on them and get them all killed.

Egwene of course is all smug and dismissive of his fears. Egwene is that person who has a new life's ambition every week, and right now she's into the Tuatha'an culture. Next week she'll probably meet some goth chick and start dressing in black. Egwene has not had an original thought of her own at any point in this book, yet she seems to think she's the brains of the operation.

Perrin has dreams about Trollocs and Fades murdering all the Tinkers, but he can at least take some solace in the fact that they're normal dreams and not freaky Dark One visions.

Then he has a freaky Dark One vision. He's sitting in the Inn back in Emond's Field while Egwene's mom makes him dinner. Egwene's mom makes food for all the boys in the village, it's not that Perrin has some clandestine affair going on with her or anything. There's a wolf guarding the door, and the Dark One shows up in the kitchen. Perrin is freaked out, the wolf starts growling, and Egwene's mom keeps making soup. The Dark One says he's faced this kind of wolf defense many times and with a crook of his finger, the wolf bursts into flames and crumples into a pile of ash. The Dark One does his usual schtick, tells Perrin the Eye of the World will consume him, you belong to me, all that jazz. He throws a bird at his eye and Perrin wakes up.

Elyas is next to him and tells him it's time to go. The wolves are all howling and freaking out, thinking about fire and pain and hatred and killing. Something bad is coming, and it's time for our heroes to part ways with the Tinkers. Perrin is worried Egwene will try to stay with the Tinkers, but she comes along with him without any argument. He shakes everyone's hand and gets hugs from all the girls and Raen gives them the farewell speech.

The wolves know the Dark One was here. Their word for him is Heartfang, which is probably the coolest of his nicknames I've heard so far. Much cooler than Grassburner. Oh no, he can burn grass! Just like anyone with a torch and some grass. No, Heartfang is a great name.

[Seerow]

Huh, Heartfang was one nickname I had completely forgotten. Do the Wolves come up with another nickname for the Dark One later in the series or is my memory on this just totally shot?


And yeah, Egwene is like a cultural chameleon, just trying to fit in wherever she is. I actually kind of like that about her.

[An Enemy Spy]

This is a short chapter so I'll knock it out really fast.

Chapter 28: Footprints in Air
Nynaeve Moiraine and Lan make it to Whitebridge by land. Nynaeve's in a bad mood and Moiraine is smug and superior, so nothing's changed with these two. Lan is Lan.

The bridge is all cool and impressive and we've already seen it from Rand's perspective, so I'll spare you another description of it. Nynaeve is freaked out when they cross it because the walkwy is so thin and glassy, she's sure it will break under the weight of their horses, but of course it doesn't and they come into the town.

Whatever happened after Rand and Mat fled the Myrddraal, it was nasty, because a large part of Whitebridge has been burned down. When our heroes question people, they give a bunch of non-answers, and some deny there was any trouble at all. It's obvious the bad guys did this, probably trying to figure out where Rand and Mat were, not realizing they'd already left town. That implies to me that the Myrddraal who would have seen them leaving isn't around to tell his buddies they're searching the wrong place. Does that mean Thom killed it? If so, either Fades are nowhere near as scary as they're made out to be or Thom is one serious badass.

Some militia try to hassle Lan, but they very quickly decide that he's not someone to mess with and decide to go look tough somewhere else. The trio looks for the boat Rand Mat and Thom must have come in on, but the Spray is gone. They decide to hope Rand and Mat were smart enough to keep going to Caemlyn and set off east. Nynaeve is still thinking about killing Moiraine once she's been trained in the ways of the Aes Sedai.

[Lethologica]

Nynaeve is still thinking about killing Moiraine once she's been trained in the ways of the Aes Sedai.

Huh. That'd be a **** move. Does it make sense in context?