5E Middle Earth

[Pex]

You can now play in Middle Earth in 5E. The setting is The Wilderland 5 years after the slaying of Smaug.

Spoiler: Concept

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Concept

Tyrannical DM: Eh, I guess. Maybe it will cut down on the ingrates whining.

Normal DM: Hooray! We get to play in Middle Earth.

Munchkin Player: Hooray! I get to play Gandalf!

Normal Player: Hooray! We get to play in Middle Earth.

Spoiler: Cultures

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Cultures

Tyrannical DM: What the heck is it with all these pluses to ability scores. Dunedain get four +1's and a Virtue? Fudge that. No Aragorns in MY game. Rich dwarves? Fudge that. Not for PCs.

Normal DM: Way cool Men are not just one race. Culture matters. They were serious in trying to match the setting.

Munchkin Player: Hooray! I get to play Aragorn! Hooray! I get to play Legolas! Wow, look at all the pluses to ability scores!


Normal Player: Wow, they went all in on the setting. I want to play them all.

Spoiler: Classes

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Classes

Tyrannical DM: Sung to the tune of "Hallelujah" - Noooo spellcasters! Nooooo spellcasters! No spellcasters! No spellcasters! No spell-ca-sters! NOOOO SPELLCASTERS! NOOO SPELLCASTERS! NO SPELLCASTERS! NO SPELLCASTERS! NO SPELL-CA-STERS!

Oh, yeah, no way are Fighter Knights getting free magic items just for leveling. Foe-Hammer Slayer can rage, be in heavy armor, and have full Dex to AC? Fudge that. Ban!

Normal DM: Ok, they took the mundane classes from 5E and changed them a little to match the setting. Even the bard-type one works well without the spells. If someone does play the Scholar I need to emphasize how prized their skills are in this setting.

Munchkin Player: Aw man! I can't play Gandalf. At least Aragorn and Legolas are possible. Gimli too, I guess. Nice to start off rich. Oh cool, I can still play my halfling rogue again. I'm definitely staying away from the boring healbot Scholar. What's it good for?

Normal Player: Yeah, Gimli is the Warrior Weaponmaster and Bilbo the Treasure Hunter. Anyway, nice how they adopted the mundane classes for Middle Earth. Still so hard to choose. Scholar is the healbot, but the healing art is more prestigous in Middle Earth than normal games. Lots of roleplaying potential.

Spoiler: Virtues

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Virtues

Tyrannical DM: Pfft. Feats by another name. Add half-proficiency to damage? No, bye. Add proficiency to AC? No, bye. Free magic item? No, bye. I may just ban this whole thing.

Normal DM: Feats by another name. Nice how they have culture specific ones. Reinforces the setting. Some are pure mechanical while others have more roleplaying potential, but even the pure mechanical ones are about specifics to the culture. Good way to tie in skill with special training and Honor. One or two might be underwhelming here or overwhelming there, but it's not obviously so. You really can't make a bad choice, and they are worth giving up an ability score increase. Even the Cultural Heirloom is steeped in gameworld lore. It means something to have the item. Good roleplaying potential.

Munchkin Player: Look at all those pluses! Free magic items!

Normal Player: Feats by another name. Nice how they have culture specific ones. Reinforces the setting. Some are pure mechanical while others have more roleplaying potential, but even the pure mechanical ones are about specifics to the culture. Good way to tie in skill with special training and Honor. One or two might be underwhelming here or overwhelming there, but it's not obviously so. You really can't make a bad choice, and they are worth giving up an ability score increase. Even the Cultural Heirloom is steeped in gameworld lore. It means something to have the item. Good roleplaying potential.

Spoiler: Background

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Background

Tyrannical DM: Whatever.

Normal DM: Haha, Samwise is the first one. I like how they're all about personality and perspective, not profession. Nothing wrong with the regular 5E backgrounds about professions, just noticeably different.

Munchkin Player: No, that one that doesn't give me the skills I need. No, no that one either. Nor that one. Ah, here's the one.

Normal Player: Haha, Samwise is the first one. I like how they're all about personality and perspective, not profession. Nothing wrong with the regular 5E backgrounds about professions, just noticeably different.

Spoiler: Equipment

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Equipment

Tyrannical DM: Yeah, I can see where the NPCs have these particular items, but no way are the players getting the dwarf-forged stuff, not even if they play a dwarf who of course is definitely not going to start off rich. It's a no magic item game anyway, the little munchkins. Wonderful, I can just give out silver pennies for the little babies. I have special use for the gold, hehe.

Normal DM: These Cultural Heirlooms are wonderful. Powerful in some cases, yes, but they really mean something. Players can earn these and feel special. Let's not go overboard, of course, but all in good time. I'll probably leave the dwarf-forged stuff for near the end of the campaign, a great reward of a well-played campaign, but I can see a hint for a weapon in the middle. Yeah, just buying it is not going to feel right despite listing a cost. I'll let the players know.

Munchkin Player: Wow neat stuff. I can get these for free for a feat or class ability. Oh cool, I can buy dwarf-forged weapons and armor!

Normal Player: While there are some magic items in Middle Earth it's not a lot. These feel right. Hey, no mithral? Odd. Oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Ooh, I like the detail they go into with the herbs for treating injuries. That would go great with playing a Scholar to make a healbot not boring.

Spoiler: Journey

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Journey

Tyrannical DM: Alright, now this is roleplaying! Exhaustion, Hunger, Disease, Poison. All sorts of things I can sick on the players and no silly magic spells to bypass it. They better hope someone plays the Scholar, hehe.

Normal DM: Cool, players have to rely on their skills more than normal. Cooperation is needed for success. It's not all about combat.

Munchkin Player: Oh this sucks. Fine, let's see, I need proficiency in Survival, Perception, and Stealth. Let me double check my class and background. Are we there yet?

Normal Player: Cool, players have to rely on their skills more than normal. Cooperation is needed for success. It's not all about combat.

Spoiler: The Shadow

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The Shadow

Tyrannical: Excellent! Want gold? Have all the gold you want, suckers. It's tainted. Make a saving throw. Oh, so you defeated my monster? HAH! It was corrupted by the Shadow. Make a saving throw. You want this magic item? It's corrupted. Make a saving throw. You're all doomed!

Normal DM: Added complexity, but it is part of the setting. Need to make sure not every treasure hoard is tainted. It wasn't in the books. I can use The Shadow more for atmosphere. There are ways to cure it. That's good. Don't want the campaign ruined because everyone got corrupted.

Munchkin Player: Whatever. Hey, wait a minute, says here I can become spiteful or deceiving or arrogant. Vengeance is mine! Now I can go back to stealing from the party and lying saying I'm just roleplaying my character, and they can't say anything because it's right here in the rules that's exactly what I'm supposed to do. I'm Boromir! Maybe I won't have my Wisdom so high after all. I can get some extra Constitution out of it. Hmm.

Normal Player: It is part of the setting. Could be fun roleplaying trying to resist dark temptations, just like Frodo. Roleplaying Miserable would be fun once in a while even if I'm not suffering from the condition itself. There are ways to remove Shadow Points, so it's not crippling.

Spoiler: Audiences

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Audiences

Tyrannical: Rolls eyes. The players can't roleplay themselves out of a paper bag. They never say the right things. Still, it would be fun playing Gandalf or Elrond having to save their sorry butts again from their own foolishness.

Normal DM: Establishes roleplaying guidance. Ok, got it.

Munchkin Player: Let's see I need profiency in Persuasion, Intimidation, and Deception. Insight could help. Wait, but I still need Survival, Stealth, and Perception. I suppose the DM is going to want me to say something instead of just rolling Persuasion. Fine, have someone else do this. Are we done yet?

Normal Player: Establishes roleplaying guidance. Ok, got it.

Spoiler: Fellowship

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Fellowship

Tyrannical DM: Oh yeah, I forgot about short and long rests. How could I when they whine about them all the time? Anyway, this should be easy enough. Can only long rest at a Sanctuary. Well, I suppose it they get really lucky during the Journey phase to find a good shelter. Oh very well if it would stop the whining. As for this Sanctuary thing, I wonder how often I can get them to waste it just to get rid of Shadow Points they're going to regain later, hehe. Not that they're going to get free magic items, I mean Cultural Heirlooms, but if I do bother to give them one and they lose it, tough feces. They're not getting it back for free. It's gone. Suck it up.

Normal DM: Alright! Cool stuff for downtime.

Munchkin Player: Alright! Cool stuff for downtime.

Normal Player: Alright! Cool stuff for downtime.

[Nemenia]

Is this supposed to be a joke, or a promo, or...what exactly?

[Gwendol]

I believe it references this product: http://cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/adve...-middle-earth/

[Pex]

Is this supposed to be a joke, or a promo, or...what exactly?

Reading the book I couldn't help myself switching back and forth between what fun it would be playing it and my cynical self remembering particular past DMs who would slobber over it for the frustrations they could inflict upon the players. Also partially reading threads here, I couldn't help but notice instances where DMs are going to knee-jerk complain about, such as a free magic item or a Virtue (feat) to add your proficiency to your AC.

[KorvinStarmast]

That was a great post. (Third party material? Can't get to the link now, will comment later).

[Gwendol]

Pex, got that, and chuckled. Very insightful.

[Knaight]

Reading the book I couldn't help myself switching back and forth between what fun it would be playing it and my cynical self remembering particular past DMs who would slobber over it for the frustrations they could inflict upon the players. Also partially reading threads here, I couldn't help but notice instances where DMs are going to knee-jerk complain about, such as a free magic item or a Virtue (feat) to add your proficiency to your AC.

Those are small potatoes - there are some significant flaws in this, and they stand out a bit more. There's the wealth chart where every listed culture is at least at Martial with the exception of the Woodmen, while theoretically existing in a setting defined by being in decline and at a shadow of its former glory. Where are the characters from the margins, where the decline is significant? Why exactly do cultures get to define their wealth by their grandest cities and strongholds; Minis Tirith may be Prosperous but Gondor as a whole really isn't. The dwarven holds are genuinely Rich, but what about the dwarves in exile? The wealth system is generally solid and I really do like it, but there's some weirdness around the edges there.

Then there's the classes. We'll start with the Scholar's nigh instantaneous healing, which just doesn't fit the setting. Then there's the Slayer, which comes across as an attempt to shoehorn in the D&D barbarian where it doesn't fit, and while some features do work well in this transition the attachment of the Rider to the Slayer is just bizarre. There's the balance feature of the Slayer's splintered spears ability regarding making magic weapons require repair that really undercuts the whole superior glorious past aspect that is key to Middle Earth. There's the way several other classes also lose out on LotR feel to better preserve D&D feel. There's the way that as a player it's too easy for characters to end up stuck with thematically odd stuff that you don't actually want.

Overall, this is a fairly solid game, even if D&D and LotR still don't mix too well, and there's a lot about it that is just cool - the Fellowship phase, the writing, how well certain setting elements have been written in, the knowledge access abilities, the list goes on. There are still valid criticisms that don't come from tyrannical DMs or munchkin players.

[mephnick]

When I looked it over it definitely seemed like something I'd steal vague ideas from for my D&D campaigns (fellowship phase etc) than something I'd ever run.

[Frogosaurus]

When I looked it over it definitely seemed like something I'd steal vague ideas from for my D&D campaigns (fellowship phase etc) than something I'd ever run.

To a great extent, that's where I am. I got the download of the Loremaster's Guide yesterday, and though I haven't digested it fully yet, it's giving me a slightly higher level of interest in running a game in Middle Earth.

My initial take is that if one is going to play in this setting, one should be prepared to have characters who continually have one or more levels of exhaustion. Travel seems likely to mess up characters, long rests are hard to find (especially if you're out adventuring), and a lot of the challenging terrain in the Loremaster's Guide imposes exhaustion (fighting in a bog, for example, imposes one level of exhaustion per three combat rounds).

[BillyBobShorton]

Very well done, op. Kudos. Entertaining and informative.

[DStenz89]

I just ordered the Loremaster's Guide tonight so I should have the PDF tomorrow. I'm looking in the player's guide and I'm curious about the creation of weapon's with the warrior. How would you use that template to create some of the iconic weapons like Anduril, Glamdring, Sting, or Aeglos? Just looking for some thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.