[3.5] Armored Dwarf Skillmonkey

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

Looking for some build advice in an upcoming game.

Here's the relevant stuff:
- 3.5 core only (PHB races only, classes and PrCs from PHB and DMG. Does not extend to stuff in the SRD that does not appear in these books)
- PHB 2 might be added to core (not 100% decided yet)
- Chargen is 4d6b3, re-roll one die at any point (most likely - this hasn't been confirmed 100%). Really bad scores will allow for a re-roll
- No idea what the other players will be taking. One may be taking a Druid, or Ranger. DM will fill out party with NPCs if needed (this guy is a great DM, and he doesn't run NPCs as DMPCs)
- There's a few house rules to be announced (Rangers get a d10 HD, Fighters get Spot as a skill, and maybe a few other tweaks)
- The facing rules from UA will be in effect


...anyhow, I've long wanted to play a Dwarven skillmonkey. Currently will be going Rogue 1/Fighter 1 (maybe 2)/Rogue X. I'll be concentrating on skills that don't take a hit from armor (although will be taking 5 ranks of Tumble), and trying to max my Int over Dex.

The DM might consider letting me swap out Evasion for Feign Death or Spell Reflection.

Any ideas on this build - other than "Don't do it!" or "Your DM is overly restrictive, leave the game, or break it with a Tier 1 caster!"

Cheers - T

[rockdeworld]

The facing rules are a godsend for rogues. I think you're making the right decision.

That said, Core is solved for rogues, so there's not much I could tell you that you don't already know.
-Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Short Sword), TWF/ITWF/GTWF, Improved Initiative, Leadership/Skill Focus (Diplomacy/Bluff/Hide).
-5 ranks in Balance.
-Caltrops/rope/grappling hook/10 ft. pole/masterwork tools of [skill] at low level.
-+1 (Greater Magic Weapon) Vicious Holy short swords and Mithral Celestial Armor at high level.
-Candles of Invocation if you're feeling dirty. Tiny Spell-Storing shurikens with Cure X Wounds if you're feeling very dirty.
-Wands of CLW
-Rings, gloves, amulets...
-Some sort of mount to make move actions for you while you TWF

If you can talk your DM into letting Dwarven Weapon Familiarity with the Dwarven Urgrosh simply be "you are proficient with it" (like in PF), then it'd be a better TWF base than a pair of short swords.

[Kantolin]

Your DM is overly restrictive, tier 1 characters, yadda :P

More seriously, what level are you starting as? If you want heavy armour (I assume you meant heavy), that does limit your options harshly, as (insofar as I know of) none of the caster classes in any of those books can wear heavy armour competently except clerics.

If the goal is heavy armour, though, in core there aren't too many feats that you may demand to take. What kind of offense were you looking at? Two weapon fighting will limit things further as that wants a high dex, while heavy armour wants a low dex (althouh technically, nothing forces you to not wear heavy armour with high dex, it's just a bit wasteful).

Is Celestial Armour an option? Core gear that is AC/Dex efficient that lets you fly at a technically reasonable cost for what you get could fit, although that depends if it also fits your theme.

So I guess - what are you aiming to do? You already have a Ranger, sadly, which hurts the 'Mythril full plate ranger' option. Going fighter will hurt your skills a lot - consider Knight, if PHB2 is an option (presuming I'm remembering correctly that knights get 4+int). I normally suggest Horizon walker for a core martial character, but 'more rogue' may be better here for skills, as bard and ranger don't really help.

[Sian]

if PHBII is in, an interesting if somewhat irregular suggestion would be to run a Dwarven Beguiler, its fluff might heavily suggest that its Charisma focused, but in fact other than boosting face skills, Charisma does nothing for you.

Try to be allowed to grab Battle Caster (Complete Arcane), and you can cast in Medium Armor, hence running around with Mithril Heavy, and casting.

[Thurbane]

Starting at level 1.

It's a fairly low op group, so I don't need to be too powerful - just competent.

[ekarney]

Are you sure you can't get a factotum in? :P

Now I'm confused by the term core, is that just PHB, DMG and MM? Or does it extend to campaign setting books?

[Thurbane]

Are you sure you can't get a factotum in? :P

Now I'm confused by the term core, is that just PHB, DMG and MM? Or does it extend to campaign setting books?

PHB, DMG & MM. Or in our case, just PHB and DMG.

The DM might be letting in PHB2, but that's it (and the slim possibility of an ACF to replace Evasion, as I mentioned).

[Darrin]

Got a theme song for ya:

Waste 'em with my crossbow. Hoody-hoo!

[Red Fel]

My heart, she is breaking.

Somebody says, "I want to play a smart Dwarf. I want him to wear heavy armor and be exceptionally skillful."

And I say, "Huzzah! Somebody wants to build a Dwarf Incarnate, possibly PrCing into Ironsoul Forgemaster! At last, someone can make good use of those skillmonkey soulmelds and fit them to awesome flavor!"

... And then your DM limits the available sources.

Why do you hurt me so? Why?

[ComaVision]

classes and PrCs from PHB.

I know I'm not remotely helpful but the PHB has no PrCs.


I think a Dwarf Beguiler would be awesome though.

[Ferronach]

Have you considered swapping one of your potential 2 levels of fighter for wizard?
The level of wiz would allow you to cast mage armour to help with your ac. If you DM lets you run with twilight (IIRC, not a core book enchantment but may be able to get it?) armour, this property reduces your asf so you could run with twilight mithral med for no asf or T. M. heavy for a low asf.
Having wiz in there could help with your all around utility and give you access to some cantrips and give you so me more skill points and class skills.
You could potentially self buff your int/cha/dex as needed for short bursts.

And if you fail an open lock attempt, you can always cast knock!

[Thurbane]

Multiclassing penalties apply, so throwing Wizard in there might be tough.

[Ferronach]

Multiclassing penalties apply, so throwing Wizard in there might be tough.

Ouch?

It is a shame that you can't play a Duergar.. yay psionic dwarf :P

[Fouredged Sword]

A dwarven favored class is fighter, so a fighter dip won't mess with your EXP.

Here is my suggestion for a core only heavy armored skillmonkey.

Rogue 2 / Fighter 1 / Rogue 17

Yes, because of your restricted books, PRCing is limited.

Levels 1 - Well at this point, you can't really equip heavy armor yet, but heavy armor is hard to afford as well. That plate mail is 1500gp, so just hold off and wear studded leather.

[Silvrfox]

While a tier 1, dip wizard. You may want to try armored dwarf arcane trickster. Pick up still spell and asf isnt an issue. Then just keep your spells thematic to the class, knock, haste, exspedit...expedito.. that running away spell, and other things that, while suboptimal, are fun and fit you character without going god wizard on them.

Edit: Funny story: Friend of mine made a dwarven wizard, maxed con, took a toad familiar(i miss 3.0 very rarely) named toad glurpy.
licked toad for good luck almost every battle. Also researched a spell to allow others to pay xp costs when he made stuff.

[Vaz]

What about Druid? While T1, taking the Rage and Monk variants together massively depower the class, because no Wildshape or Animal Companion at least drop it maybe T3 status.

[Mr Adventurer]

Rogue 1/Fighter 1. Max Tumble. Wear full plate. Become Tumblor, The Amazing Tumbling Dwarf!

[Thurbane]

A dwarven favored class is fighter, so a fighter dip won't mess with your EXP.

Here is my suggestion for a core only heavy armored skillmonkey.

Rogue 2 / Fighter 1 / Rogue 17

Yes, because of your restricted books, PRCing is limited.

Levels 1 - Well at this point, you can't really equip heavy armor yet, but heavy armor is hard to afford as well. That plate mail is 1500gp, so just hold off and wear studded leather.

Rogue 1/Fighter 1. Max Tumble. Wear full plate. Become Tumblor, The Amazing Tumbling Dwarf!

Yeah, pretty much the route I was going to go.

The DM has approved Feign Death ACF (which is good, because once I get heavy armor, I won't be able to use Evasion), but rejected Spell Reflection

What about Druid? While T1, taking the Rage and Monk variants together massively depower the class, because no Wildshape or Animal Companion at least drop it maybe T3 status.

No UA variants allowed - and I'm also pretty set on a Rogue/trapfinder type.

Not to mention there's a fair chance one of the other players will either be Druid or Ranger.

[Troacctid]

Seems like you're pretty much locked into Rogue/Fighter. Rogue is the only real skillmonkey option, since all the alternatives are in other books, and the Fighter dip is the only reasonable way to get heavy armor proficiency with multiclass penalties in play.

Are you planning to be Strength-based or Dex-based? I assume Strength, because maxing out Dex kind of flies in the face of the heavy armor plan? You can't just be Int-based, because you still need to be able to contribute in combat, and you aren't going to be adding your Intelligence to your attack rolls, and sneak attack damage isn't going to do you much good if you're missing every attack.

Definitely don't stop at 5 ranks in Tumble. You want it maxed. You're going to need to be able to tumble behind your enemies to get in sneak attacks.

[Ferronach]

I now have the image of a steel ball roughly 6 feet around, rolling around the battle field.
It seems innocent and harmless, rolling around until it comes to rest behind the enemy line.
For a full round nothing seems to happen, so the enemy ignore the shiny ball. They will deal with it later.
Then minute clicking and clacking sounds can be heard coming from the ball, followed by the hissing of a pressure release.
Before the enemy know what is going on, a dwarm wearing mountain plate launches himself out of the sphere and begins to stab the oblivious enemies in the back.
Targeting their leader and mages first, the dwarf causes confusion among his foes and grants his allies a swift victory.

Inside the ball is a gyroscopic mechanism so that the warf is always upright and he has has a form of scrying spell cast permanently giving him a 360° view around the sphere at all times.
Opening the ball is a free action as he just has to push a button on one the handle that he is using to stabilise himself.
Movement is controlled by smaller sphere that the dwarf manipulates with his other hand, again some form of permanaced spell.

[KillianHawkeye]

Rogue 1/Fighter 1. Max Tumble. Wear full plate. Become Tumblor, The Amazing Tumbling Dwarf!

Definitely don't stop at 5 ranks in Tumble. You want it maxed. You're going to need to be able to tumble behind your enemies to get in sneak attacks.

I agree with maxing out Tumble. Dwarves are the only race that can Tumble in medium and heavy armor. You just CAN'T let that opportunity pass you by!

Besides, you'll need all the ranks you can get just to overcome the higher-than-normal Armor Check Penalty.