Dreamscarred Press - Path of War Expanded! (Thread VII)

[angelpalm]

irl i speak in impact but i am doing that so I can easily find if someone important quotes me with an actual response to my questions.

Ps: I whisper in italics irl

[Jigawatts]

Can I possibly make a couple feat suggestions to potentially be added to a Path of War product? (Feel free to change the names)

Single Weapon Style
Benefit: When attacking with a single weapon in your main hand and not wielding a shield or a second weapon in your off hand, you add a +2 dodge bonus to your AC, as well as increasing the damage die of your weapon by one step. Utilizing any other weapon (including natural attacks or unarmed strikes) other than the single weapon in your main hand will cause you to lose the benefit of this feat for one round.

Improved Single Weapon Style
Requirements: Power Attack, Single Weapon Style
Benefit: While utilizing the Single Weapon Style feat, you count as wielding a 2 handed weapon for the purposes of bonus damage from your strength score and calculating the bonus damage from using the Power Attack feat.

So a 1st level human fighter with an 18 Str using a longsword that had all 3 of these feats would do 1d10+6 damage, or 1d10+9 when using power attack. This is vs a 1st level fighter using a greatsword with just power attack who is doing 2d6+9, our single weapon fighter has a +2 AC over the greatsword fighter, but is still doing less damage per swing and spent 2 extra feats to do so.

Given the fact that two-handing in Pathfinder kinda rules the roost, I think these would go a long way towards making single-weapon a viable fighting style.

[Tuvarkz]

@gigawatts: Scarlet Throne style is already the 1-hander style. No need for a new one.
@angel: Yes, adds Charisma to all attacks during said round
While Fear the Reaper can do more things than Intimidating Force-IF is not a mind-affecting maneuver, therefore it can be used on undead, enemies immune to fear effects (paladins for example) and so forth. Of course, the PoW Errata incoming might rebalance things.

[angelpalm]

@gigawatts: Scarlet Throne style is already the 1-hander style. No need for a new one.
@angel: Yes, adds Charisma to all attacks during said round
While Fear the Reaper can do more things than Intimidating Force-IF is not a mind-affecting maneuver, therefore it can be used on undead, enemies immune to fear effects (paladins for example) and so forth. Of course, the PoW Errata incoming might rebalance things.

Hrm.....are you sure tuvarkz I mean it is an intimidate check....but you it doesn't have the fear descriptor in it like the other maneuver.....

[ANSeranov]

Scarlet Throne is meant to work with both 1-hander and 2-hander setups-it's just that it's quite obvious at low levels that 1-handing a single weapon nets you a clear disadvantage at level 1, which is likely the reason why Einhander only works with 1-hander+empty hand.

This was my understanding, too.

It's not supposed to be the most ridiculously good low level stance in the game (because it absolutely would be, considering most stances that give the +1d6 damage benefit 2H or TWF actually REDUCE your AC, it would be strangely incongruent to have one that boosts AC and gives the same damage bonus), but rather a way to help 1H builds to not be quite as totally left behind as they are currently.

[vilor]

Can I ask a question about the Pathwalker - Walking New Paths from the Systems and Use chapter? If all Pathwalker's get access to the Sleeping Goddess discipline regardless of paths chosen then what happens if he selects the Sleeping Goddess discipline path? Surely this would make you less versatile by only having 2 disciplines, instead of 3 otherwise?

[GilesTheCleric]

Sleeping Goddess' Call the Soul Blade says "If you are currently wielding a mind blade or equivalent weapon". Does a Fiendbound Marauder's Fiend's Grip count as an "equivalent weapon"?

[twas_Brillig]

Sleeping Goddess' Call the Soul Blade says "If you are currently wielding a mind blade or equivalent weapon". Does a Fiendbound Marauder's Fiend's Grip count as an "equivalent weapon"?

I'm not an authority, but I think the intent was probably to support Soulknife archetypes that use alternate mind blades. E.g. the Soulbolt that has a ranged mind bolt, or a Deadly Fist using Empowered Strikes. Soulknife abilities have to jump through a few hoops to not accidentally mess up support for an archetype.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Hmm. If I were to build a magus that utilizes the Martial Training feats, would Scarlet Throne or Cursed Razor be better? I'm a fan of Scarlet Throne, but having the initiating stat be wisdom is a bit irksome. I'm not familiar with Cursed Razor, but spellcraft is a much better skill (and Intelligence a much better initiating modifier) for a Magus to use. Thoughts?

[GilesTheCleric]

I'm not an authority, but I think the intent was probably to support Soulknife archetypes that use alternate mind blades. E.g. the Soulbolt that has a ranged mind bolt, or a Deadly Fist using Empowered Strikes. Soulknife abilities have to jump through a few hoops to not accidentally mess up support for an archetype.

That's what I figured, but I wanted to be sure. Thank you!

Hmm. If I were to build a magus that utilizes the Martial Training feats, would Scarlet Throne or Cursed Razor be better? I'm a fan of Scarlet Throne, but having the initiating stat be wisdom is a bit irksome. I'm not familiar with Cursed Razor, but spellcraft is a much better skill (and Intelligence a much better initiating modifier) for a Magus to use. Thoughts?

Magus is a full caster, right? So that means you'll likely be picking up a stance, and one or two each of boosts and counters. Since you're a caster, boosts are better than counters (since you shouldn't get hit), and stances are pretty good.

Comparing the best of each, you get:
Scarlet Throne
1: Prince's Attitude (B): +4 vs AoOs, +2 ref and will for 1 rd
2: Sanguine Barrier (C): sense motive to block 1 atk
3: uhhhh... Unfettered Movement (S): +10', +4 vs AoOs
4: Sanguine Perseverance (B): sense motive for 1 save
5: Sanguine Perfection (B): remove any personal debuff for a few rounds
6: Scarlet Duelist Attitude (S): +5 AC, init

Cursed Razor
1: Aura of Misfortune (S): -2 to foes' saves in 20'
2: Bad Karma (C): foe gets -4 to all d20s for 1d4 rds (will neg)
3: Sorcerer's Sidestep (C): +2 to saves for 1 rd
4: Warlock's Stride (B): *2 movement speed, and path of frost effect
5a: Shadow Pin (C): 1 foe cannot move
5b: The Dragon Knows (S): 60' blindsense, foes can't tumble to avoid AoOs
6a: Eye for an Eye (C): foe takes same effects you took, no save
6b: Sorcerer's Gaze (B): ignore cover, concealment, miss chances, deflection

Cursed Razor seems to be superior to Scarlet Throne for many reasons. You get a stance at level 1. There's fewer boosts and more counters, but the counters will probably have more impact regardless. It's more proactive, which is typically a "better" style of play in D&D. Its abilities also better line up with spells. It also has what I deem to be more and better options, which means you have more flexibility in choosing something worthwhile for your character depending on how things go or your expectations for the game change.

However, if you think you're going to be set for offensive output and are really just looking to shore up your defenses a bit, the save and AC replacers from Scarlet Throne are not duplicated in Cursed Razor.

[Tuvarkz]

Hmm. If I were to build a magus that utilizes the Martial Training feats, would Scarlet Throne or Cursed Razor be better? I'm a fan of Scarlet Throne, but having the initiating stat be wisdom is a bit irksome. I'm not familiar with Cursed Razor, but spellcraft is a much better skill (and Intelligence a much better initiating modifier) for a Magus to use. Thoughts?

You'll probably want CR far more than Scarlet Throne, as the level of maneuvers you acquire through the Martial Training feats is also limited by your initiator level, which for the feats is 1/2+your initiation modifier (which is the ability modifier for the skill the maneuver is keyed for). Namely, INT for CR and WIS for ST.
Doing some simple math, this is the situation if you want to get the full benefit of each feat as early as possible:
Level 3: Martial Training I-Your baseline IL is 1, which is enough to get the level 1 maneuvers already
Level 5: Martial Training II-Your base IL is 2, so you need at least +1 in your ability score modifier to get level 2 maneuvers
Level 7: Martial Training III-Your base IL is 3, so you need at least a +2 modifier to run level 3 maneuvers at this point.
It is pretty clear that you'll only manage to viably go with INT-based skill maneuvers for a Magus (Or Charisma based through Clever Wordplay and similar traits.)
So yeah, you should go with Razor.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Yeah, I considered that; taking my existing magus into account, he could almost keep his initiating level equal to his character level; at level 5 I would likely still have 16 intelligence, which would be... 5. At level 10, he might have 18 or 20, depending on how much he has invested, so either 9 or 10. Heh, this character might as well take Hexcrafter for ALL the curses.

Edit: No, magus is a gish class. Getting stabbed is an unfortunate reality for them. They most often use a 1-handed style to cast spells, which is why Scarlet Throne seemed attractive. However, with the exception of reflex, magi tend to have decent saves; good fort and will from the class, with the constitution of a frontliner for fortitude. In my experience foes tend to think they are squishier than they actually are.

Edit 2: Okay, that was before I reread Cursed Throne to see that people under the effects of a [curse] spell are cursed for the purposes of the discipline. One of the favorite tricks of hexcrafters is spellstriking Brand to get an extra attack. I really want to play this now.

[Nyaa]

If you are Hexcrafter, Razor definitely fits better thematically, but if I were to take Martial Training on Magus I'd probably go with Flux. Keys off Int too, has absolutely awesome stances, and you only need animus to augment elemental damage strikes for which you already have spells. Or take Tap Animus feat.
Though if I really were to play Magus, it would probably be magus 4-9 / warder (or harbinger) 1-6 / bladecaster 10. 8/2/10 has one 6th level magus spell per day and one 9th level maneuver, both at level 20 though.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

It doesn't just fit thematically, a hexcrafter, when not throwing damage spells around, is probably throwing around curse spells. Combine that with something like Aura of Shared Misery, and you're golden. If you have a witch in the party, even better.

The only problem is that I was looking for a nonmagical discipline, but I suppose a magus is better off than a normal caster when stripped of magic.

Edit: Hmm. An enemy under a hex doesn't count as cursed, does it? It feels like it should...

[angelpalm]

So in regards to mounted combat and stances.....you still keep your stance when mounted or does being on a horse make you worthless unless you are a hussar? I think I saw that someone said that was changed a few times lol, still not sure were it stands but I know how I would rule it......

[Elricaltovilla]

So in regards to mounted combat and stances.....you still keep your stance when mounted or does being on a horse make you worthless unless you are a hussar? I think I saw that someone said that was changed a few times lol, still not sure were it stands but I know how I would rule it......

This is spelled out in the Systems and Use document under section 3 "New Tactics" in the very first subsection "Maneuvers and Mounted Combat."

[Elricaltovilla]

I'd like to introduce you all to our newest Iconic, the Iconic Privateer: Isabel Carina Fierro De la Fuente, captain of La Espina de Rosa.

Spoiler: Isabel Carina Fierro De la Fuente

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Spoiler: Backstory

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Isabel is a pirate princess. Her daddy is a notorious pirate and mercenary and taught her how to fight and sail from the day she could walk. She demanded that he buy her a ship for her coming of age so that she could be a real pirate like him. Of course, since she's daddy's little princess he wanted to make sure she wasn't in any REAL danger, so he put her in charge of one of the ships in his fleet.

She's kind of Captain-in-name-only at this point, most of the goings on are run by her first mate and the ship's navigator, and the crew mostly obeys her out of fear or respect for her parentage. But she's a crack shot and a good swordswoman, so she'd going to make a name for herself no matter what.

Isabel's father, Antonio Domingo Abarca De la Fuente, is a man of ambition. He's incredibly driven, and he lets nothing stand in the way of fulfilling his dream of founding his own kingdom. That's his ambition and he's done both incredibly noble and obscenely heinous things in pursuit of creating a real Pirate Kingdom. The only thing that can draw his attention away from the little nation he's carved for himself is his wife and daughter.

[NineThePuma]

I feel like hooves would be very poor on a ship.

[oyzar]

I saw there was a clarification of the way the bannerman's banner ability works with polearms in path of war expanded, yet there is no change to the courageous defense ability. Is it really intended that if you wave a huge pole with a blade on one side and a banner flying from the other you do not benefit from this ability? That seems kinda limiting for no good reason that I can discern:/. I would love to find a clarification on this.

[MilleniaAntares]

Does the warlords victory gambit add your charisma mod to hit to all attacks for that round? It says it can be used for full attack actions as well as standard actions. So I am guessing that would also include strikes that use multiple attack rolls?

Victory Gambit is not compatible with strikes, period.

[angelpalm]

Victory Gambit is not compatible with strikes, period.

Wait....why is it not compatible?

Why wouldn't this line apply to it?

The character may initiate a maneuver while performing a gambit (if the maneuver helps him accomplish it) but he may not recover the maneuver used to achieve the gambit as part of the reward.

It says standard and full round actions, does that not include strikes that are standard or full round actions? Kinda weird to make a gambit that doesn't work with the main class feature.....

[Tuvarkz]

Wait....why is it not compatible?

Why wouldn't this line apply to it?



It says standard and full round actions, does that not include strikes that are standard or full round actions? Kinda weird to make a gambit that doesn't work with the main class feature.....

Victory Gambit

Risk: The warlord successfully reduces an opponent to 0 or few hit points with a melee or ranged attack on his turn from either a standard attack or full attack action.

Specifically mentions "Standard Attack Action" or "Full Attack Action" Strikes let you make an attack or a full attack as part of a standard action or a full round action, but not either of the former.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Really? I get the standard action thing, but I thought some strikes were specifically full attacks.

[Tuvarkz]

Really? I get the standard action thing, but I thought some strikes were specifically full attacks.

Some strikes let you make a full attack, but their initiation action is always specifically a "Full Round Action" not a "Full Attack Action"

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Well, if it lets you do a full attack, and it's called a full attack... Isn't it a full attack?

[ANSeranov]

Well, if it lets you do a full attack, and it's called a full attack... Isn't it a full attack?

Welcome to Pathfinder, where if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's a wizard.

[Elricaltovilla]

And today I have the Iconic Hussar for you to meet: Barnabas Gorski, Halfling Goatrider

Spoiler: Barnabas Gorski

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Spoiler: Backstory

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Barnabas Gorski was an immigrant Halfling with few prospects. Being both small and a foreigner meant that he didn’t have much chance for social advancement, but with a war brewing on the eastern border, the army was willing to take just about anyone and Barnabas knew that nothing got the ladies’ attention like a shiny new uniform. He’d always had luck with animals, and so he joined a newly formed Hussar unit. When he showed up for his first day riding a goat, the junior officers nearly beat him to death, until his goat Roch launched himself at the officers and scattered them. The Colonel found it so funny that he gave Barnabas a field promotion then and there, and told him to recruit more halflings to fill out his unit. Fresh faced and with the taste of glory on his lips, Barnabas Gorski looks forward to the day he can lead his men into battle.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

In Pathfinder, though, goats are small creatures. Familiars, usually. Rams are the closest animal companions, and they are also small until 4th level.

[Elricaltovilla]

In Pathfinder, though, goats are small creatures. Familiars, usually. Rams are the closest animal companions, and they are also small until 4th level.

Please feel free to pick your favorite:
1. Undersized Mount
2. Dire Goat
3. He's at least 4th level in that picture

[MilleniaAntares]

Elric: I like him, he's cool!

By the way: if I use a maneuver with non-lethal damage on something immune to the damage (like an undead), and the maneuver has a saving throw effect, does the effect still go off even though I didn't do any damage?

Well, if it lets you do a full attack, and it's called a full attack... Isn't it a full attack?

Think of your actions in combat as like a Final Fantasy-style menu.

Standard:
-Attack
-- Basic Attack
-- Disarm
-- Trip
- Use standard-action maneuver
-- Crippling Strike
-- Shoulder Rush
- Activate magic item
- Cast standard-action spell
-- Magic Missiles
-- Fireball
- Recover maneuver

See how "use a maneuver" is different from "attack"?

Similarly, your full-round action menu would look like this:

Full-Round Action:
- Full attack
- Charge
- Use a full-round action maneuver
-- Dragon Assault
-- Raging Hunter Pounce
- Withdraw
- Run
- Recover maneuvers (Defensive Focus, etc)

Victory Gambit only works on the bolded sections, per the specific limitation on that one gambit. Similar to how Unbreakable Gambit gets to be used as an immediate action instead of a swift.

If you want to spam Victory Gambit every round, go ahead, but know that you'll be locking yourself out of boosts (unless you get the Corset of Delicate Moves and go for a standard action attack), counters (unless you want to give up Victory Gambit next round), and strikes. That is how it's balanced, alongside with the rake for failing to kill an enemy.