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2015-12-07, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-12-07, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Germany
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Hm... yeah, the first bit I'd say I took as him being a male but using the ladies room and the kiss with Jerzy... I guess it should have been more obvious.
sidenote: Will Didi jump in the ring and beat up Roxxy? Ten bucks say so.
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2015-12-07, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
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- California
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Re: Menage a 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Which has what to do with whether Angel is a male or female? Oh right, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Regardless of what term you use, Angel biologically is either male or female. The impression of most people was that Angel was male that was bisexual and cross dressed. 'Gender fluid' certainly doesn't refute that.
Artist of my Avatar: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Rakrakrak-272771299ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!
I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.
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2015-12-08, 02:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
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- Washington, USA
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Re: Menage a 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Genderfluid means one who shifts between genders, and isn't locked into one or the other. In other words, Angel is male or female, depending. Sometimes Angel identifies as male, sometimes as female.
And why would 'most people' think Angel was a cismale crossdresser, when Angel outright claimed to be genderfluid in the comic I linked? I'm confused.
EDIT: Also, what's up with the hostility there?Last edited by JadedDM; 2015-12-08 at 02:06 AM.
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2015-12-08, 05:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
The fact that Angel is anatomically female was kind of nailed down when Ruby yelled "YOU'RE A GIRL!", and Angel winced a little and then spent a couple of strips' worth of conversation politely clarifying the details for Ruby. I assumed that everybody had read those strips by now.
Before that, most people in the comic who hadn't known Angel previously assumed that he was male with a taste for nigh-crossdressing camp style, because that's how he'd been presenting whenever we saw him. A lot of readers were fooled too.
And nobody here, and nobody who knows in-comic, denies that Angel is gender-fluid, or thinks that she/he shouldn't be. The fact that Angel is biologically/anatomically female is a relevant detail, though, partly because it obliges her to do something to flatten or disguise her bust when presenting as male, as seen in these latest strips, but mostly because of how Jerzy (who's apparently known Angel since childhood) feels about it.
Yes, Jerzy is clearly bisexual by any sane definition. He's not only had (enthusiastic) sex with both Zii and Dillon, he seems to be attracted to both Angel's male and female personas. However, he insisted to Dillon that he transitioned from bisexual to entirely gay. Trouble is, he's clearly fooling himself. He hinted at least once that he wasn't attracted to Angel because he sees Angel as female (understandable, given that friendship going so far back), but then they wound up in bed together anyway. And the denial is messing up his head.Last edited by Discus-Spinner; 2015-12-08 at 05:22 AM.
Spinnin' that Disc...
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2015-12-08, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Icy North
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Most people exist on a spectrum. Just like asexual people can span from "sex feels super nice but I don't ever feel a particular need to grab any specific person and get it on" to "ewwww sex!", people's attractions to different genders can span. Dillon certainly seems on the "eww, gross!" side of things when it comes to sex with women (or at the very least incapable of making it work), whereas Jerzy has managed to get it up.
I've known gay people who had sex with people of the gender they were "supposed" to, and it was perfectly okay and tolerable, and then they slept with someone of their own gender, and it was MINDBLOWING. Those people are still gay, and might be the majority. I figure if you're actively repulsed, it's a lot easier to figure out your sexuality much earlier.
You see straight people engage in same-sex, uh, sex all the time as well. That's why we made the word "situational homosexuality". If it's all there is, and sex feels good, and you're not actively repulsed, eh, sure, why not. Touch is touch, and it's better than nothing. Gay people can engage in the same "eh, whatever" in regards to another gender.
Of course a lot of people exist in the gray area. "Bi" spans a wide spectrum of experiences, and a lot of it comes down to where we put the borders. Let's look at our old friend the Kinsey scale.
How do we define "gay" here? Is it only people who are at 6? What about bi? Only people who are at 3? But then 4-6 would be gay.
Point being, no matter which scale we look at (and let's be real, the Kinsey scale is extremely simplistic in the first place), there's a lot of fuzziness.
So no, Jerzy is not bi "by any sane definition". He's bi by a somewhat narrow definition of homosexuality. Genderfluid people are in relationships with monosexual people all the time without anyone having to redefine themselves. Jerzy may very well shift his choice of identifier. Or he might continue to prefer male Angel, date only the boy side, and have gay sex with Angel.
It's a non-standard definition of gender and homosexuality, but the entire queer movement (including genderfluid individuals) is working hard to redefine a lot of those things anyway. Either way, I wouldn't mistrust Jerzy's gayness just yet.Last edited by Glass Mouse; 2015-12-08 at 08:12 AM.
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2015-12-08, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- The land of corn
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
What glass mouse said. Also, Olinser, you seem to be completely missing the fact that by being genderfluid that makes all the difference.
That's actually a pretty good drawing of a scorpion crosslock. Also, Didi should be kept far away from professional wrestling until she understands the concept of kayfabe.
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2015-12-08, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
But he's not just had heterosexual sex out of situational desperation, or because he was confused by a conservative upbringing; he had sex with Zii, at his own instigation (according to her), quite recently, and for emotional reasons that he can still describe passionately enough to bring a tear to Erik's eye. And even while he was trying to describe himself as gay, he admitted to a bisexual "phase". If a character described himself as straight, but admitted to a bisexual "phase" which turned out to have included relatively recent, enthusiastic gay sex which he himself instigated, I rather doubt that many people here would be saying that yes, he was indeed entirely straight.
I get it that boundaries are fuzzy and a few experiences don't define anyone for life, but Jerzy's insistence that he's entirely gay looks much more like denial than self-knowledge to me.
More to the point, I'll bet that when Dillon notices those bindings, he's going to conclude that he's been let down by another closet bisexual...Spinnin' that Disc...
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2015-12-08, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Germany
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
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2015-12-09, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- California
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Artist of my Avatar: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Rakrakrak-272771299ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!
I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.
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2015-12-10, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
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- Germany
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Well, Dillon being confused makes me a bit less worried about my lack of observation. Also, Zii is being helpful. Or at least, giving useful advice.
And the main comic leaves the more interesting part to skip to an older scene... I guess that answers why that date went wrong.
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2015-12-10, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Location
- Montreal
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Let us be fair. He has the rights to.hold these opinions regarding its degrading treatment of women.
Maybe he goes over the edge when he claims no women right in their mind should like it. Maybe. Its a bit judgemental.
But he certainly in the wrong for not even picking on some obvious visual cues she was sending. Come on bud, you are in a date. The meal isnt the important part, your date is? Pay attention to HER
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2015-12-10, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
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- The Icy North
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Spoiler
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Avatar courtesy of the talented Neoriceisgood. Features Pumpkin from my webcomic.
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2015-12-10, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
@ SaintRidley: Thanks for the Wrestling Information and Link! It does explain it, but i must admit it makes it unappealing for me. (I do not like betrayal in a team, just a personal quirk.)
BtT, the Date could have gone worse for him. Dude got both dishes, appearantly, and without even asking.Huckster-Avatar by Mehoaido from DeviantArt. And yes, the cat is called "Salem".
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2015-12-11, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Deciding that something meant for adults shouldn't be available for purchase by them because it offends your sensibilities is an opinion that should never be entertained. She can't get the version she wants due to people exactly like him.
This is pretty anvilicious but the point itself needs to be made. Especially by an artist who's career is based on this kind of thing.
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2015-12-11, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
- Location
- Montreal
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Oh, i am not claiming that he is right in deciding what is best for others. But i have to say i am pretty uncomfortable defending what is essentially blatant objectification of women, where the feminine gender is reduced to nothing more than a shape to be lusted at.
Its.. Degrading. But holding that opinion (like i clearly do) is not a license to act like a jerk.
And even if you want to preach about these values (which is rarely effectice), there is a time and place. A date is NOT the time and place.
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2015-12-15, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
And there it is. She almost felt she didn't actually belong to this webcomic, and was being far too reasonable and self aware. Now we know she actually does fit in with the rest of the characters.
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2015-12-16, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Germany
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Maybe it's the characters. Maybe they carry some weird kind of sexual diesease they spread to people getting close? Anyway... she's acting normal in the way she's reating Gary now. For the comic's standard.
Also: So... Aaina had Sandra eat her... steamed buns all night? And then...? And I totally forgot... Marie's gay now? (It's chic, too)
And SDB... uhm, OKAY. Better no comment.Last edited by Kato; 2015-12-16 at 09:57 AM.
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2015-12-16, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
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- Odenton, MD
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Judging by Angel's reaction I'm assuming that there is something derogatory to the term that Ramona used to describe herself. Is this the case?
The origin of the word is from greek mythology as it refers to the love child of Hermes and Aphrodite, so I don't see a cause for offense there, but I don't really know.
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2015-12-16, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Washington, USA
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2015-12-16, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- California
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Last edited by Olinser; 2015-12-16 at 09:55 PM.
Artist of my Avatar: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Rakrakrak-272771299ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!
I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.
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2015-12-17, 01:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
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- A long, long chain
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
This is also an intersex person referring to themselves as a hermaphrodite.
I, uh, I think that even in the most PC paradigms they're allowed to do that?Rider avatar by Elder Tsofu
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2015-12-17, 02:38 AM (ISO 8601)tonytongGuest in the Playground
Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
nice
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2015-12-17, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- California
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Which is why Angel screaming about the term is idiotic. Angel is essentially demanding that the person the term ACTUALLY refers to arbitrarily be offended and conform to her 'correct' terminology.
One other note. Am I the only one that finds the most recent SoTR to be extremely creepy? Aaina basically sexually molested Sandra when she was too drunk to even know what was going on.Last edited by Olinser; 2015-12-17 at 02:47 AM.
Artist of my Avatar: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Rakrakrak-272771299ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!
I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.
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2015-12-17, 04:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Angel is being an idiot, obviously (like, this is new?), but technically, "hermaphrodite" means a creature with both male and female genitals, which is insanely rare (like, probably non-existent) among human beings. "Intersex" means ambiguous genital anatomy or hormonal responses, and hence is presumably correct for Ramona.
Sure, Angel is almost certainly being right on rather than being a semantics fascist - but he'll have the semantics fascists on his side this time. Plus, I think that there's a slight sense that "hermaphrodite" has overtones of the old-fashioned freak show, though whether that's a real problem is another matter.
As for Aaina - well, yes, she's being a little bit creepy. But she didn't so much "molest" as "let herself be molested by", so I'll still call it comedy.Last edited by Discus-Spinner; 2015-12-17 at 04:53 AM.
Spinnin' that Disc...
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2015-12-17, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Germany
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
I'm not going to say "more common than you might think" but it happens, i.e. hermaphrodite humans. But it's rare enough. I guess the big-ish issue is the term is used for animals and plants and - yes- used to be the "freak" term, but it also somewhat excludes questions about the individuals psyche and self-identification.
However... Ramona can call herself whatever she wants in my book.
As for Aaina - well, yes, she's being a little bit creepy. But she didn't so much "molest" as "let herself be molested by", so I'll still call it comedy.
edit: it seems Gary's small developing spine has vanished again.Last edited by Kato; 2015-12-17 at 05:46 AM.
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2015-12-17, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
- Location
- California
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
Artist of my Avatar: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Rakrakrak-272771299ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!
I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.
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2015-12-18, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Germany
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
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2015-12-18, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Under your bed
Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
I know I shouldn't expect too much from these comics, but to be honest the fact that Dillon is being a total jerk and denying the legitimacy of Angel's gender identity while getting off practically scot-free is making me really uncomfortable.
I mean I agree that Angel is being a jerk about things as well and shouldn't be policing how Ramona refers to herself. But the way Angel's being portrayed as the most unreasonable person in the room, especially taking into account the fact that he's the first/only nonbinary character in the comic as far as I remember just doesn't sit well with me.
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2015-12-18, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
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- The Icy North
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Re: Ménage à 3 V: YAOI SENSE TINGLING
While, yes, Dillon is being a complete and total jerk, I wouldn't say he's presented as being in the right. In the past three strips:
Dillon loses the verbal sparring by inadverdently acknowledging Angel's gender.
Dillon's cisnormative assumptions become a punchline.
"Angel's... right."
Not to mention that in Angel's previous scene, s/he was the calm educator with Ruby's awkward yaoi-fangirlism being the punchline. The comic has generally been good about not going the "omg she thinks she's a boy, isn't that hilarious?" route, with most punchlines having very little to do with Angel's gender and more to do with his eccentric personality, his Dillon hate, or other people's awkwardness around him.
It's on iffy territory, but I wouldn't call it damning. Personally, I'm kinda expecting Zii to step in with a 101 smackdown (which might justify her inclusion in the storyline, since she has thus far mostly just been a foil for Ruby's business ideas).
But I also might be biased because I've never loved Angel more than I do in these strips. He's being hilarious and strangely endearing. It's refreshing to see new flavors of jerk apart from "catty Jerzy-stealer"Spoiler
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